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5 years ago
Ricklert IMO
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"Health conditions are obesity, smoking, diabeties, so these people were already trying to kill themselves by being fat"
Those aren't the only health conditions they're talking about . According to Medscape, by the standards by which "pre-existing condition" is meant for covid19, 50% of people 55 and over have some pre-existing condition or other. Don't be fooled into thinking there's lots of old people without pre-existing conditions
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5 years ago
JA: plain and simple, we don't know. We think it's mutating slowly enough that you'll be immune (ala chickenpox), but it is NOT proven yet that it won't be more like flu, where it changes every year.
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I told my housekeeper to stay home but have been paying her weekly anyway. She sends me all kinds of prayers when she gets my check each week. I'm not a religious man but, foxhole and all that, and I'm certain she has more sway with the Big Man than I do, so I'm with it
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5 years ago
It's like a two-month-long Superbowl
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5 years ago
mark: there's been a few analyses and the virus seems to be mutating slowly (with one team in Europe having results that are an exception). Good and bad I guess, slow mutations means it might not be like flu where you need a new vaccine every year.
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5 years ago
I think the quickest relief we'll get is from some drug cocktail or other, while we wait for the vaccines. A whole bunch of the anti-virals and monoclonal antibody drugs, and sure, hydroxychloroquine, are being tested; even if they just lower the death rate a bunch, and cure everyone else faster, I think we've got what we need to turn things around
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"A made up position? Like Republicans only care about the economy and not people? Made up, stupid, childish bullshit like that? Seems to me Rick is advocating for groups that some of you don't belong to"
I'm a Republican, but I can call out made-up positions in any direction; in this case, there's too many made-up positionsn (it's only out-of-touch old guys who are for the lockdowns, only old people are at risk, those advocating lockdowns are doing so at a "save every life at all costs" presumably forever) for his argument to stand up on any level. Furthermore, no one wants Rick's advocating on their behalf -- his (and your) position is currently held by a few out-of-touch old guys, at least currently. There's broad support otherwise for the current course, which ironically is probably the far smarter one for the economy in the long term, provided we can work our way out of the lockdowns quickly enough.
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"True. Instead you're advocating for the max protection of every elderly life at all costs, no matter how many future suicides, violent crimes or poverty stricken children result from it."
Rick, No one is advocating for that -- that's a made up position, a self-constructed windmill to tilt at. What most of us advocate is listening to the medical experts, who in turn should be learning from the experiences of other countries, especially the collapse of the health systems there. We also recognize that while this hits the elderly the worst, it's not exclusive to the elderly by any stretch; making this strictly about the elderly is itself misguided.
By contrast, as you and skibum have been honest about -- admirably so, actually -- your position IS accurately represented as "let however many people die, die; open the economy back up".
This argument is between "listen to medical experts on how to handle this, to ensure the health system is overwhelmed and even WORSE long term economic effects felt" and "let people die". There is no "max protection of every elderly life at all costs" present in the current round of arguments, that part is an invention.
discussion comment
5 years ago
I've had a couple of doctors appointments this month, one by phone call (it was just to give me the results of tests I'd taken in Feb) and one by video.
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"Of course lazy, stupid young people don't care about the economy. They never knew or understood freedom and self reliance. They're so fearful that s shitty existence is acceptable. Those who have never lived always fear death."
ski, I didn't bring this up to debate the why's. Just to point out Rick's hysterical positioning of supporting the medical establishment's priorities around the lockdown as "scared old guys", when in fact it has broad support through society and it's "restart the economy and let them all die" is actually the heavily old-guy position.
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"As is usually the case, I suspect the optimal solution is somewhere in between. But, that wouldn’t be as fun to argue."
Too true! I don't think the optimal solution is in between -- half-assed measures get you looking like Spain or Italy. Instead, my guess is full commitment to the lockdowns (evidence is coming up now that these are working in many areas), while developing a strategic policy that gets us out of the lockdowns ASAP -- strategic leadership is what I think has been lacking. I'd like to see a "here are the X conditions that need to be met to relax the lockdowns. And here is our plan to meet those conditions".
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5 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I read an interesting article recently about a country club. The author was musing how politics were playing out through the covid19 situation. He said that the proportion of older golfers had gone up -- relatively more younger golfers were staying home. And of the golfers that did show up, the younger golfers observed social distancing, the older golfers didn't, like they were practically challenging the whole thing. From what I can tell, this is reflective of society in general: broad swaths of society are prioritizing health in the short term. It is old guys, and some Republicans -- and especially where those two groups meet -- that are prioritizing the economy. Just as on tuscl, where it's ONLY old guys complaining about the economy, most (all?) of our younger members are prioritizing the lockdown, for now, that's where society is also. "Screw the lockdown, re-start the economy ASAP and let whoever dies, dies" is a decrepit old guy position. It's one of a number of fun reality reversals.
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5 years ago
No need. It's definitely full of ronas
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5 years ago
I don't think it's easy for a random consumer to avoid products that don't have some content from China. I think the more important movement is much bigger and strategic. I don't really know what the right thing is, or whether it's even realistic, but perhaps start with identifying some strategic products -- medical products, medicines -- and identify how to break China's dominance of those areas, even if it means investing in the industries in other countries; I'd particularly like to see industries spin up in Mexico, central, and south America, if that's remotely viable.
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5 years ago
China's wet markets are open: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/30/-scene-british-reporters-say-chinese-markets-again/
Multiple reports say the wet markets are open again, selling bats and other wildlife, along with dogs and cats, all crammed together and intermixed. To get a real idea of what the conditions are like, go on youtube and search Wuhan Meat Market - Hell On Earth. I could only watch 60s or so, but it is horrifying. Truly a cruel, disgusting, unsanitary culture that, as we've always known and we're reminded of again, creates a giant petri dish that puts the entire world at risk.
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5 years ago
club and 25: I'm just happy I could get you guys to be best friends again. Good deed accomplished!
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5 years ago
No doubt. With luck, there's some re-thinking on some goods that are perhaps more strategic -- drugs, medical equipment, etc
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5 years ago
Negative. Which is both my answer to the question, and my covid19 status
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5 years ago
We should have been strategically re-thinking the relationship with China all along. With any luck, this is the catalyst to do so more seriously.
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5 years ago
Jesus, club and 25, you guys are saying the same thing.
Clubber said: "china holds 1,078.6 billions in dollars of our debt.". 1078.6 billion dollars = 1.1 trillion
25 said: "#1 🇨🇳 China $1.11 trillion 17.3%"
These are the same numbers you senile fucks
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5 years ago
Yeah, as I said originally, not sure that it's racist, but definitively divisive and unhelpful. That said, China is a bad actor, and their behavior is no different during the pandemic. They likely are lying on a number of fronts; worse yet, from the very top, they have actively spread the conspira-tard theory that the US military created and spread this... all while quietly shutting down the wet markets, etc. They seem to have learned their lesson on that, and have backed off on the "US military" theory, or at least stopped supporting it at top levels of the government. I just read the UK is incensed over China's behavior, planning on re-thinking the entire relationship, including Huawei's contract to build the UK's 5G network (which is INSANE you'd let a Chinese company do that in the first place). I'm no Trump fan, but anyone comparing Trump to China has a moral compass that's hopelessly broken. Besides, we'll likely be through with Trump in a year.
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5 years ago
My meme game has jumped to the next level.
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5 years ago
Yes -- if there's been any mistakes made on social distancing and shelter-in-place, it's that it started too late, not too early. These are proven methods, not the result of panic or irrationality. Data, and not the vague possibility of relief in the future, is what should drive changes; in the meantime, we use the one proven method we have, shelter-in-place. The 5 conditions the doctor I quoted outlined seem like a fantastic checklist to guide when that policy should change on a locality-by-locality basis; although as always, I would yield to the experts on whether that's the right checklist
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5 years ago
To go along with my earlier contention that rather than blindly guessing about whether we should change policies, but instead focus on "what would need to happen in order to change policy" and then do a concentrated sprint to make those conditions happen, here's a doctor proposing what those conditions might be: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/johns-hopkins-doctor-identifies-5-key-factors-for-relaxing-social-distancing
What he says:
“When we see a state or region have numbers that go down over time, and when we have diagnostics in place, and when we have masks available for all of our doctors and nurses who are putting their lives at risk to take care of sick patients, and hospitals are well-prepared, and when we can get our public health systems in place to start tracing or identifying individuals and start tracing their contacts, again like they do in Asia --- I think those five major conditions --- then I think it’s a time to begin to think about how we might experiment with lightening social distancing, perhaps one step at a time.”
He thinks the US might be there in 2 weeks.