discussion comment
2 years ago
This has been more a function of my local clubs than anything. When we had good, nude clubs (which had extras!), that's where I went. When those clubs went to shit, I started going to topless clubs and figured out how to have fun there instead. And if I'm going to the club with my buddies, always rather have alcohol available, which means topless, although the occasional Palomino trip delivers both alcohol and vagine. But I've mostly transitioned to: drink with her in the club, get her OTC for sex.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I'll answer Rick's question first: do not EVER agree to pay for a meet & greet, beyond covering her travel expenses. If she won't show up to the M&G without getting paid, she's usually either an escort, a scammer who learned to charge men for meet & greets and then ghost, or a "pro SB" who runs this as a business, and you want to avoid them. If she shows up and she's cool, IMO give her a $50 or hundo if you want to see her again. The critical thing is she shows up to the m&g without promise of a payoff.
Drew: very close to 100% of arrangements start with PPM these days. There are too many scammers to start out by giving some chick you've only met once at a meet & greet for dinner, thousands of dollars. It's a stupid move. Maybe 1 out of 50 girls will insist on allowance to start, skip them; pretty much everyone else is good with PPM. So almost everyone starts with PPM. Many, many arrangements just stay with PPM indefinitely, some transition to allowance after a few months.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Yeah, first strongly agree that sometimes you have a one-and-done not because of intent, but because the date didn't work out. The sex sucked, turns out I can't stand her personality, whatevs. I think that's a risk we all take, nothing to be done about it. Or if things go sideways -- listen, there's no guarantees, just intent. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. I move on fast if I'm not enjoying it.
Fair point on: had sex on first date and agreed to PPM. But I don't think that's totally incompatible with "I'm agreeing to these things because I think he wants to build something longer term" -- PPM and sex on the first date are the norm in sugar, and the women quickly learn they either do those things, or give it up, so they do it assuming a guy is looking longer term or he'd tell her. But those are conscious decisions, point taken.
In the end, we seem to agree: if you're looking for one and done (or a few dates and done), NSA, you don't give a fuck about them, let them know in advance, there's plenty of girls on seeking who are fine with that and a number prefer it. We're used to dealing with professional sexworkers, many SBs don't remotely have a professional sexwork outlook, and I don't think any of us are out to traumatize young women, so be upfront, let them down with some empathy, etc.
I'm with you, way too busy to keep looking for new girls, added to the fact that I enjoy sex more with someone I know better, whether it's an ATF or an SB I've seen a bunch of times.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
At the risk of becoming the least liked person here :) There's a huge spread in the kind of women on Seeking. It's everything from escorts and other sexworkers, all the way to women who have a somewhat idealized view of arrangements, and everything in between. All of us on tuscl are experienced sexwork clients, and think in those terms: transactional, no strings attached, today's date does not imply any future dates, etc. This is the perfect outlook when we run into sexworkers, or sexwork-adjacent sugar babies who are looking at this as a job.
A huge number of SBs, especially the younger newer ones, are on the other side of the scale though. They may or may not even think of themselves as sexworkers, but whether they do or not, their view of sugar is that it's a longer-term relationship where an older man who actually likes them them, supports them financially, gives them advice they don't get from their parents, shows them all kinds of cool experiences they couldn't otherwise have, and potentially stays with them for a long time. If a guy treats them nicely, unless he specifically says he's looking for NSA/short-term, she thinks they're on the same page. IF that same guy smashes them a few times then moves on with no fucks given, they are pretty crushed, if not downright emotionally traumatized. You see this constantly on the sugar forum, it can be pretty heartbreaking.
This is most likely to happen when a no strings attached sexwork client type of guy (that is, all of us here), run into a longterm connected sugar relationship girl. He think she knows the deal that this is transactional, just a different sexwork variation. She thinks that, unless he specifically says he's just looking for something short-term, NSA, etc., that he's looking for the type of long term sugar relationship you see on slf, in the movies, etc -- this is the only reason she goes with him in the first place, she thinks they're both signing up for a more classic sugar relationship. He has sex with her a few times, then he's done and doesn't think anything of it, and she leaves with long-term emotional trauma.
Bottom line here is: if you don't want to traumatize these women, be up front that you're just looking for something NSA and fun and short-term, even if it's just on your profile. I figure it's a good way to keep my karmic balance from going too far negative, plus I genuinely don't want to traumatize anyone.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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drewcareypnwnot the real drew carey, but I play him at strip clubs...
"If I've had fun with a dancer ITC and I'd like OTC, then I'll just ask "Would you consider seeing me outside the club?" "
Same with me, right down to the phrasing. And like you (and Rick), I prefer seeing her ITC a few times for a number of reasons -- I do think it builds the type of trust and de-risks things from her perspective (that is, she doesn't have to wonder if I have the $ to pay her) so might increase the chances of a choosier stripper saying yes to me, but just as importantly, since I'm only interested in date-style and not escort-style OTCs, it gives gives ME certainty that I want to spend 5 hours with her. If I enjoyed the hour-long sex encounter type OTCs, that wouldn't be a question. I do think these are fundamentally different experiences -- totally subjective of course, valid to like one or the other or both. I just don't enjoy the escort-like OTCs.
discussion comment
2 years ago
I think if you have a so-so time on an OTC, post-nut clarity is definitely a risk! I spend a lot more than you do on OTCs -- a little more on the stripper, I use dayuse.com if it's not an overnight so actually get a better hotel room for less than you, but typically spend much much more lavishly on dinner, drinks, and optional trip to the SC. If each OTC doesn't blow me away and hit the reset button on my life pressures and attitude, I don't repeat. Another reason I find one CF who is mindblowing and stick with her for as long as she'll put up with me
discussion comment
2 years ago
There's one club around here that does this. For me personally, yes, I tip every dancer if a club has a tip parade culture, even if it's just a couple of bucks. Or don't go to that club -- although that sounds easier said than done in your area unfortunately.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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drewcareypnwnot the real drew carey, but I play him at strip clubs...
$1000 was what the hottest Vegas nightshift strippers were asking, and those are basically the hottest girls (very high-end escort level beauty), making the most money during their shifts. Not that other girls don't ask that too, but generally that's way high. Way more than needed for a hot dayshift girl in SF, back when we had dayshifts.
discussion comment
2 years ago
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drewcareypnwnot the real drew carey, but I play him at strip clubs...
My personal experience in a very high COL area, with OTC prices.
1. I appreciate you doing advance research, but the advice you've been given of "you'll need to start giving offers in person" is right on. None of us know; don't be too set by what anyone says here.
2. I divide strippers who do OTC into two camps: escort-like model, and date-type model. Escort types are usually high volume, with a set escort-like menu: "$500 for 1 hour; add $200 if you want greek; add $250 if you want to take me to dinner first". Date-type model is more like an SB date: you set a price (e.g., that $500 from above) and that's for the date, however it lasts -- which could include dinner, SCing together, hell they sometimes crash with you in the hotel room overnight. I have no use for escort-like OTCs, and feel they are worst of all worlds: escort-like "professional" pricing, with stripper-like flakiness. I do the date-type model, and never discuss time limits, and if she brings up time or menu, I'm out. It sounds like you're the opposite and are just looking for an hour of sex, so the more escorty and professional girls are open to you.
3. OTC prices have nothing to do with ITC pricing (price of VIP rooms, etc)
4. If you were to twist my arm and force me to give you some kind of vague guideline, I'd say for dayshift girls (vs girls working Saturday nightshift and bringing down $$$$$), OTCs are generally vaguely in the range of a MID-TIER escort... even though those strippers are more attractive than mid-tier escorts.
5. Believe the guys who said that if the stripper likes you (or perhaps it's less about "like" than feel safe and respected), you may be *shocked* at how little she charges you. So if you're the kind of guy who spends some time ITC building trust, you may get decent deals.
discussion comment
2 years ago
Another way to slice and dice this:
Choose escorts if:
You desire maximum certainty on: date, amount of time (even if that time is minimal), duration, cost, sexual activities performed
You are very flexible on: how good she looks, what her personality is like, at least for the first time you see her
And extra credit if: you don't want downside surprises (other than looks & personality) even if that means very little chance of upside surprise
Choose OTC if:
You desire maximum certainty on: how hot she is, how much faux-chemistry you have, how turned on by her you are, it can expand to dinner etc for the same price
You are flexible on: date & time (she might show late or not at all, she doesn't have set availability), duration
And extra credit if: you like the possibility of huge upside surprises (e.g., she stays overnight, she's a three-hole girl, it lasts hours and hours) even if that means there's a chance of downside surprises (e.g., she doesn't show up, she gets drunk and combative and/or passes out, etc)
discussion comment
2 years ago
"I was surprised to see the comments basically saying how risky it is"
Agree with you Alfredo -- at least is you go about your escorting adventures smartly. If you are doing the equivalent of bottom trawling backpage, yes, going to be risky as fuck. But if you have a minimal amount of brain cells and caution, escorting is generally MORE safe than ITC extras at least from the perspective of physical safety and not getting robbed. A well reviewed escort is going to be safer than a random stripper who you've never read a review on, hoping she'll deliver on the extras she's promised. At worst, similar risks.
Where the risks are unbalanced is that first time you see an escort, your biggest risk is when she opens the door. 95% chance she doesn't look as good as her pics; if she's merely half a point worse, it's a win. With your ITC stripper, she's right there in front of you and has probably even done a lapper or two for you, you know exactly what you're getting as far as looks, body odor, personality, sensuality.
IME, escorts are best for when you want a guaranteed, pre-reviewed & researched, known-time-window (e.g. exactly from 4pm to 5pm) sexual encounter. I don't value this, so not my choice.
discussion comment
2 years ago
Escorts just aren't my thing. I'll pick OTC, or in a pinch ITC extras, over escorts every single time. Just a preference thing.
discussion comment
2 years ago
What I like about snapchat: snapchat has a pic/snap (snap = short video) oriented app culture. It is always the case that when I have an SB or stripper on snapchat, there's going to be lots of fun pics and vids coming my way. I am into sexy pics and vids from my CFs.
What I don't like about snapchat: messages disappear in 24 hours. If we haven't spoken in a few days, I lose the context. Sometimes I'll ask my stripper if she doesn't mind if I save our text conversations in chat so I can see what we said last, and they're usually fine with it.
The "send me money or STFU" and similar messages, I see on random strippers' IGs, snapchats, etc., all the time. The sexworkers get ornery about you enjoying their pics and vids for free, but there's little they can do about it except get frustrated. There's some subset of guys ("simps" in current vernacular) who cashapp them or join their OFs, which I guess is enough to keep them posting for us freeloaders
discussion comment
2 years ago
Karma is a bit crazy. You get one point for commenting or posting. Then, people can upvote or downvote you -- e.g., they like what you're saying so they upvote you, and then gets you another karma point. Or they hate what you're saying and downvote you, and you lose a karma point. It's not always easy to understand why you're getting upvoted or downvoted. I've made positively pedestrian posts that got upvoted through the moon, and made what I thought were great posts that got downvoted. But you want your general trend to go up. There are many subs that won't let you post without some minimal karma (e.g., 10-50 points, which is trivially easy to get) without mod review, and many subs won't let anyone with negative karma post at all.
discussion comment
2 years ago
The SBs report allowances that are suspiciously high. The SDs report allowances that are suspiciously low. Total shocker! My experience is that average values in my area are much, much closer to the SD reported allowances.
discussion comment
2 years ago
To answer the original question: I mostly like reddit, sometimes really like. It all depends on the subs -- there are many thousands of them, some with chill & smart communities run well by the mods, and there are subs of jr high school icey-like posters meme-insulting each other. You curate your own experience; if you keep reading subs where progressive pansies and icey-like trolls prevail, that's 100% on you, not on reddit. These things don't even hit my awareness because I'm not in such subs.
I use reddit to read and interact on a number of hobbies and interests I have. I found fantastic communities on a number of obscure hobbies, that have really progressed my knowledge and enjoyment forward.
Beyond hobbies, there's some general interest subs I find entertaining. r/InterestingAsFuck, r/askscience, r/happycrowds, r/CrazyFuckingVideos (I can go on and on with these)
Some of the NSFW and porn subs are pretty great also, and some hit interesting niches. I've been known to occasionally peruse the likes of r/OnOff, r/girlsinyogapants, r/NSFWbarista, r/TooCuteForPorn, r/FestivalSluts , for example. And of course r/Stripclubs and r/Strippers 🤣
discussion comment
2 years ago
Following the general theme of "it depends how you club"
I like to find an ATF and stick with her, meanwhile wiring up the club so that I get more leeway from management on touching, etc. This is best accomplished in the local scene. I can see the same girls over and over (though with the stripper turnover rate, there's always new girls too), I can get in with the bouncers, managers, and bartender. Basically I can pull together exactly the experience I want.
Out of town clubs are a one and done. If I spent $500, that's an investment that will pay no forward dividends for me. Spend that at my local club? The manager and girls recognize the spending that much more, each time I go is a step closer to what I'm looking for: never paying the cover charge, always sitting in the reserved booths, no bouncers patrolling during my VIP dances, lots of YMMV with a grateful ATF who I'll be seeing OTC soon
discussion comment
2 years ago
"Random is on Reddit ? Oh goody. Maybe I'll run into him"
You won't find him, I'd bet. There is no one on slf that remotely acts the way Random did here. He always struck me as the type to try to flex his noodle arms where he knew no mod could touch him, but he's towing the line like a good boy on slf. If he's there, his attitude and behavior are totally different than here.
discussion comment
2 years ago
"I got a message from a sugar baby a 1000 miles away from me that wanted to know if I would fly her to me . I"m thinking it's 50/50 that is a scam, so I just ignored that message."
If you think that's 50/50, you may want to re-think whether you should be giving advice 🤣🤣 Just fucking with you, but since you're new to reddit, I'll tell you what everyone else who has been there knows: Very close to 100% of the unsolicited DMs you get from "sugarbabies" are scammers. The ones 1000 miles away, the ones "in your town", and everyone in between -- every single unsolicited DM is a scammer, girl trying to sell you nudie pics or get you to sign up for her only fans, etc.
On r/stripclubs we don't have the newbie post require mod approval thing, but that's because we're a smaller community. slf may have its faults, but in their defense, new accounts are the cause of 90% (or probably more) of the trolling and personal ads. I mod a different, large, non-sexwork sub, and even there we find new-to-the-sub handles are responsible for nearly all the problems on the sub. It seems like a very small ask that new users get their posts approved for a day or two (it usually lasts no longer than that, as it's just based on karma) to get rid of most of garbage, it's understandable to me. With slf getting inundated with angry sexworkers and johns constantly, I definitely understand it. I kind of hope Stripclubs grows big enough some day that we need a policy like this 🤣 BTW I do think the way most tusclers use SA, it is more sexwork oriented, and probably not a great fit for slf
article comment
2 years ago
Good article. For me there's some conditionals:
1. I'd never invite a dancer for OTC at my home... the first time. After I've known her a while? Sure I will.
2. Dancers and hotel rooms. The rule is: don't let her spend the night without you. Has nothing to do with whether the hotel has room service. She could raid the minibar for hundreds, she could cause damage, I've read all kinds of after-action stories of dummies who have let their stripper or escort stay in the room that's under THEIR name, overnight. Here's even better guidance: unless this might turn into an overnight, use dayuse.com, if you get a 2pm-9pm room, well at 9pm, everyone gotta go!
3. How much details to work out in advance. Working out everything you said -- exactly the price, for exactly the sexual activities you want, etc. etc., which implies all discussed in detail in advance -- is not something I do, and I feel strongly that the BEST experiences happen when you don't discuss that. But that depends on how flexible you are. If you have exactly $400, and you MUST fuck her raw and then CIM or otherwise it will suck for you, then sure, you better work that out in advance. But if you're flexible about what might happen, best to go with the flow. Hell, with a stripper I vetted well at the club first, I've gone OTC without even working out price a couple of times, because I already knew I wasn't going to get gouged, and it worked out great. With a stripper who is more high-hustle or professional, sure, work out details -- but really, why not just skip those kinds of girls.
4. Staying over the dancer's place. Again, strongly agree the first few times you meet. After you know her well? Not a problem. I've told some stories about staying over my ATF's place, with her dancer roommates. Those are some life stories I am glad I have!!
And, in the bonus section, I never have confirmed how a dancer wants to be paid! If it's our very first time, I bring enough cash to cover, but am prepared to send by cashapp (and only cashapp) also. Never been a problem. After we've known each other a bit we'll figure out if we prefer a different way.
discussion comment
2 years ago
motor: There are some subs that are so hot, no idea why! r/OnOff is one I love
discussion comment
2 years ago
* once in a while make a post when there's a discussion about strippers as SBs.
discussion comment
2 years ago
I lurk at SLF, and once in a while make a post when There's also Stripclubs (Paul Drake's strip club subreddit), for SC discussions.
I've always been vocal about a lightly-moderated forum, over one where just one or two trolls whose main goal is to disrupt discussions, can do so in every thread (it's even more obvious once you ignore them, and watch literally every thread degrade into name calling, every thread where members are sharing and celebrating some aspect of SCing turns into insults, etc). It's a shame the one place that could become THE SC forum, has an owner who prefers this, but I recognize that may be a minority view.
Stripclubs is lightly modded (I comod so I know :) and SLF is heavily modded, but I also recognize that a huge community like SLF with 160,000 members that has a whole different set of challenges. Stripclubs has 10,000 members (lifetime) so much smaller community
discussion comment
2 years ago
"Yes - I’m always there to see a specific girl who I know is on the schedule"
Studme, to repeat what I said above, when I'm there to see a specific girl, I am totally happy being the only one in the place, or one of few. Good reason to show up early!
discussion comment
2 years ago
In a club I'm a regular at: I've often been the only customer in the club -- hell, as I've said ad nauseum, I specifically try to go the slowest times of the slowest shifts, so it happens a lot that I'm the only customer or one of only 2 or 3 (with me being the only one buying). I love it. Most of the time I have a CF and have set up an appointment with her in advance, and now we have a win-win, in that I'll keep her in tequila and VIP dances and she'll spend lots of time with me. Often, a friend or two of hers will drift over to my table also, and now I've achieved one of my favorite ITC experiences: me and a table full of strippers. Even if my CF is not there, since I'm a known regular who spends, I don't feel that simmering anger from the girls that electrifies the place when they're not making money.
A club that's unknown to me, and I'm unknown to them, this isnot as enjoyable. If I can find a girl I like quickly, then it's great... again, she's got no other options, and I'm buying drinks and dances, so we'll have a fun next few hours, no worries about her leaving to another customer. But if it takes a while or it's all fuglies, it is definitely uncomfortable.