discussion comment
12 years ago
"And Jerikson, instead of pissing and moaning about what a club should do to meet your expectations, you need to accept them for what they are and adapt."
Dude, nothing personal, but that's an idiotic statement. I don't need to do anything. I'm a customer. I have expectations, and those expectations are very reasonable, and are probably in line with what the vast majority of customers expect when they enter a strip club. Maybe not you, but most customers. We expect to be entertained. I explained why above. It's simple.
Let's try it your way. Let's make a strip club where when the customer walks there's no music playing. There are strippers, but they don't strip. They are sitting around the room, all wearing street clothes, no makeup, no sexy clothes. They look like every average girl you see on the street. The rest spend most of the shift in the dressing room. None of the strippers circulate or talk to any of the customers. Ever. They just sit there.
So the customer sits down, but has nothing to look at. Nobody dancing, no music playing, no hot looking strippers, nobody asking for lap dances.
Now, are you going to tell all those customers that get pissed off and storm out the door, "hey, wait a minute, that's how we operate here, you need to stop pissing and moaning and accept us for what we are"
If you do, you're an idiot. The customer doesn't have to do anything. He'll go down the street to a better club, or decide to to home and watch football. And he'll never come back. And your club with die.
Why on earth do some of you guys feel this insatiable need to stick up for strip clubs and strippers who are incompetent? I can't understand it, but it seems to be a common desire most of you guys have.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Interesting question...
Though it does seem to be a fairly common phenomenon in my experience. I really don't know why, but I have some theories.
It's possible that it's just a matter of dayshift = fewer customers = more work/competition to get the fewer available $$.
Though I expect it's more likely that the girls who work nightshift are more likely to have outside jobs during the day, therefore they are more likely to view themselves as classier than those "strippers/skanks/ho's". If your day job is a student or administrative assistant or dental technician, you're probably more likely to think you're above all of those nasty ho's who suck guys off in the back room.
discussion comment
12 years ago
By the way, to extend the analogy, if you walked into a restaurant and sat there for an hour waiting for a waitress to stop by, would you make the same excuses for the waitresses, and list the reasons why they may not be taking care of you? Would you make the same excuses for management?
No, you'd get pissed and walk out. Whether management didn't like daytime customers or customers who didn't spend much wouldn't even enter your mind. Nor would you care if the waitresses didn't make enough tips from guys like you, so they decided not to wait on you.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Why do so many PL's think the world should revolve around them in a strip club?"
A strip club is a business. A business has a primary goal, and that is to make money. A strip club is a "customer service" business, in which the service exists to entertain customers, and make customers happy. A customer service/entertainment business makes more money if it makes its customers happy and/or entertains them in a way they enjoy. Not rocket science.
Each of the 5 items you posted is an excuse why clubs are the way they are. Management is the way it is, dancers are the way they are. But that has nothing to do with your question.
Customers expect a customer service business to serve them, and entertain them. They expect and hope to be entertained when they go to the movies. They expect and hope that a restaurant will make their dining experience a good one. The expect and hope that when they go to a show in Las Vegas they'll be blown away. And they expect that when they go to a strip club the strippers will entertain them. The movies, the restaurants, the shows, and the clubs who do the best job of making their customers happy and entertaining them are probably those that make the most money. Repeat business, word of mouth, telling friends, positive reviews, etc., all happen when customers have a positive experience.
And it's the job of the business to figure out what it is they need to do to make the customers happy. Those who don't figure it out, or meet those expectations, probably won't do as well.
If management doesn't give a fuck, or the strippers have their reasons for ignoring some customers, that is nothing more than an excuse why the business is probably losing business it could otherwise have.
Is it really that difficult to understand?
discussion comment
12 years ago
gsv sez: "Do you really think a girl is going to waste time sitting with someone if they're getting nothing for it at all?"
OF COURSE !! Same reason they spend an hour in the dressing room instead of circulating. Same reason they spend an hour with their noses buried in their cellphones. Same reason they sit on their asses off in a corner doing nothing but socializing with another stripper. I see it all the time.
And I gave a long, detailed, rational analogy describing how they probably don't need to work more than 15 minutes each hour to make far more than they'd make elsewhere.
How many more examples, how much more reasoning, how much more do you need before you're willing to accept that you might be wrong? Read thru what I posted, and tell me specifically where I'm wrong. Give me reasoning, not just statements.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"@jerikson- Data???? Wtf are you talking about? You want me to go do a survey of the girls in the locker room?"
Oh, I thought your statements were based on some knowledge of what the other girls do. I guess not.
If you expect people to believe you (if you even care), then maybe something besides "This is true because I say it's true" would be good. Otherwise, accept that maybe you could be wrong, and don't dig your heels in, like some people do.
"And how do you know you are right about the majority? Do you have data?"
I gave a whole lot of reasoning and rational analogies. What did you provide?
My point is, and it's not directed at you, if you're going to dig your heels in and act like you're right, at least provide a tiny bit of rational information or reasoning to back up what you say. Otherwise you come off like a 6 year old.
BTW, was my reasoning about stripper income and minimum wage, etc, reasonable?
discussion comment
12 years ago
Okay, Rick. You're right. I'm wrong. And you're smarter than me, so I won't even try to challenge you.
And I apologize for doubting you. Because you're the man.
Feel better?
discussion comment
12 years ago
"I feel bad for her"
Really? Seems to me she's a lucky girl. She's hot, at least to a lot of people, and most women would, deep down, love to look like that, and have guys clamoring all over them. Though they'd probably never admit it. She also is going to have lots of opportunities thrown at her feet, and it's up to her to decide how to handle them. If she's smart she can do real well.
But honestly, guys don't give a crap about any of that. She's hot, she's got a hot body, and all we want from her is sex anyway. We don't care about her personality. If she has one.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"I know this cant be news to you"
Of course it's not. Nor is it the point. What we are talking about is what are called 'generalities'. Statements that are generally true. Not always true, but more often than not. Stuff that is true a majority if the time.
And what is a majority? Well, in elections it's 51% or more. Which means that if 500,001 people out of a total electorate of 1,000,000 vote for a candidate, he wins. It also means that 499,999 are pissed.
The point is that, in general, more strippers sit around on their asses because they don't want to work than those who actively work. And, in general, the girls spending lots of time on some guys lap are probably not getting paid for it, but rather socializing, because it's easier.
Do you have any data to refute that? Other than, "oh, I'm not like that".
discussion comment
12 years ago
Rick, is it really THAT difficult for you to back up your point with any sort of facts or logic? You act like you're such an expert in strip clubs, but you have absolutely nothing to back up your points, other than "oh you just don't understand".
Okay, here, let me help you...
Let's say that a stripper has to pay something like, I dunno, $50 to dance a shift ("tipout" or "house fee" or whatever). We can argue forever what the number is, but I'm sure it varies by club, and shift, and a bunch of other stuff. But for argument let's start with $50.
And let's assume that the club takes $10 of every $20 lapdance. Again, we can argue, but let's just assume for now.
So that means she has to either do 5 dances in an 8 hour shift to start making money, or maybe 1 VIP.
Now, in California the minimum wage is $8 per hour. Yes, I know that strippers are NOT employees, but just for comparison. For a stripper at the end of her shift to make minimum wage means she needs to do less than 1 lapdance per hour (actually 5/8 of a dance) to cover the tipout, and 1 dance per hour to make minimum wage. So let's say two lap dances per hour.
And a lapdance lasts, what, 3 minutes? Which means 6 minutes of her time per hour to make the same that she'd make working at MacDonalds.
Hmmm......
Now, if she's a hard working independent contractor, she could make three times what she'd make at MacDonalds by spending 12 minutes per hour doing lapdances.
So she can sit on some guys lap, get paid NOTHING, goofing off for 45 minutes each hour, and make 3 times what she'd make at MacDonalds, as long as she spends just 15 minutes each hour doing laps.
SHE DOESN'T NEED to have guys slipping her $100 bills to make more than most of her friends. She can goof off most of her shift and still make a lot more than most people make. And I contend that's what most dancers choose to do. You contend that most or all strippers that sit with guys get paid for their time. No data or logic to support that, just your statements that it's true.
Dude, just TRY to make a rational point. It's not that hard. You're an expert, right?
discussion comment
12 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
Here's a really good one:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/stars-makeup-real-face-fame-gallery-1.21019
discussion comment
12 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
"I had seen her on TV, and I will say but one thing, without her TV makeup, she wouldn't rate a second look from me"
I have contended for a very long time that that is the case for the vast majority of women on the planet. Not sure if I posted here or elsewhere, but if you want to have a little fun do a search on the internet for "stars without makeup", and you might be shocked to see how freakin' ugly those "really hot" superstars you've always drooled over are.
There are some exceptions, but not many.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Just because someone doesn't get a dance doesn't mean they aren't spending money."
And, obviously, it doesn't mean they ARE spending money either, correct? Just because it applies to you, or any one person, doesn't mean it applies to everyone.
Yes, some girls get paid to sit with guys. But I suspect that in the grand scheme of things, the majority of strippers sit with guys for reasons other than they are getting paid. As others have implied, chances are that most strippers do the same as most employees on the planet would do if given the opportunity. They sit around and socialize because it's easier than getting off their asses and working.
It's difficult to start a conversation with a new guy. Especially if he's a stranger. Especially if he's not attractive. Also, as others have said, strippers aren't necessarily good businesswomen. Which means that they may not have the ambition necessary to actually work and do a good job. Y'know, like the common perception of government employees. Put in your time and collect your paycheck.
Also, for most women, what strippers do is probably not the most honorable and desirable work, so there's probably a fairly strong conscious or subconscious desire to not even be there.
Now I'm sure there are some exceptions, and I'm sure we'll hear from one or two strippers who think that since THEY aren't that way then that means strippers in general aren't that way. But I tend to believe that strippers are, in many ways, like most other women on the planet. Though maybe they're more likely to have a few more 'issues' than most women.
And yes, I see it all the time. Virtually every time I go into a club. Was in a club yesterday. Two decent looking girls out of 6, both sitting in the laps of some old guys who weren't getting dances. Yeah, they could have been handing the girls money under the table, but I doubt it. This is a low end club in a low end area where there aren't a lot of big spenders.
There were about 12 guys in the club, nobody on stage, no girls circulating, 2 decent girls sitting in guys' laps for maybe 45 minutes, the rest of the girls in the dressing room.
Now, let's do the math. Is it a case of honorable, well intentioned, hard working girls doing their best, or a bunch of girls who really didn't want to be there passing up an opportunity to make some money off of 12 bored guys who were waiting to be entertained?
I left after an hour, due to severe boredom. I had $120 in my pocket when I left, that I expected I'd be spending on lap dances. The bottom line: incompetent management, and girls who didn't want to work.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Thanks for the objective review. I'm reminded of the post in this forum by the inventor/owner of the product a year or so ago, asking for input, and in return the freakin' morons here gave him/her a royal reaming. The typical childish crap I've come to expect from many here.
Anyway, for those who are too manly, and macho, and too cool for this whole subject, just step back, okay?
Personally, I think it's freakin' brilliant. I've been on the fence about buying a pair for a very long time, only because in the high mileage clubs I go to, the dancers are usually spending a lot of time with their hands inside my shorts stroking me off.
However, I've started to realize that the brilliance of the idea is that it can pretty much ensure you have a great orgasm even in a relatively low mileage club. So it opens up a lot more possibilities in terms of getting off with hotter, lower mileage chicks, and not wasting time with unsuccessful lap dances.
Thanks for the review. BTW, where did you buy them?
discussion comment
12 years ago
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motorheadFat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life
In LA, Jackie Johnson is an incredibly hot blonde newslady.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBp8T1ZDBeU
And if you like Asians, Sharon Tay is smoking hot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0q9_vURNiA
Of course, IMO, some of the weather girls blow the shorts off any of the newscasters. Especially on the Mexican stations. Holy crap.
Jackie Guerrido: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mNgqzr2Pio&feature=related
Elita Loresca: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhwxt_n9UEk
discussion comment
12 years ago
"As your spending increases, so too will your interactions with the girls."
BTW, Rick, I do want to give honorable mention for what is possibly the most brilliant statement I've seen on this forum.
So, are you saying that if you give them MORE money, then the girls will like you MORE and spend more time with you? Wow. Give me a few minutes to let that sink in, 'cuz it's kind of complex.
So to extend my already flawed analogy, the haircut guys should ask for perms.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"as is evident by yet another bad analogy - this time to a haircutting salon"
Dude, if you don't like the analogy GIVE ME A GOOD ONE, instead of just "oh, you don't understand". Geezus, you guys make ridiculous blanket statements, and I reply with rational analogies, and all you have is "oh, you just don't get". How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?
discussion comment
12 years ago
"...you will not get it regardless of what we say"
Dude, I will "get it" when you provide a rational argument. Give me numbers. Give me facts. Not this typical deflection BS of "oh, you just refuse to understand" or telling me I need to read a freakin' book or telling me that I just don't understand the special interpersonal dynamics of a strip club. Total BS.
Some strippers sit with a guy for a long time because they don't want to work, not because they're gonna get compensated. Because it's difficult to start a conversation with a stranger. It's easier to sit and BS with someone they know. We both know that. Just like it's easier for any employee of any company to socialize in the break room than work.
You know that your point, where strippers are making more money with regulars than with the non-regulars, applies in a very limited number of cases. But at least man up and admit it.
discussion comment
12 years ago
I don't give a fuck who comes into a club. If you have a $10 cover or whatever, then anyone who can afford $10 can come in.
What is far more important is how management, and the strippers, manage those customers. The goal should be to make everyone have a good time so they'll return and spend more money. Even if it's only a $10 cover and a $5 drink. It's free money for the club.
Now, a particular club can decide that it's not worth their while to have a guy come in and only spend $15, for whatever reason. Doesn't make sense to me, but they may have some rational reason. In that case you implement some other rules or practices to filter out the low spenders.
I think the bigger problem is those clubs that fail to manage. And as a result they have guys walking out the door with money in their pockets, guys who would have spent that money if management and the strippers had done things differently.
discussion comment
12 years ago
And gsv, just for you, here's an analogy that I think clearly defines the issue:
Joe's House of Haircuts employs 20 girls (independent contractors) over 2 shifts. Joe's stylists perform expensive permanents for women ($80 each, the girl gets $30), and regular haircuts ($15 each, the girl gets $10).
Joe starts to notice that revenues have been dropping, and the manager tells him that more and more girls have decided that they only do permanents, not haircuts, because they make more money doing permanents. And when they're not doing perms, they sit in the back and socialize. He also says that he's seen customers wanting haircuts come in and wait for an hour or more because there's nobody willing to do haircuts, and some customers storm out saying they'll never return.
If you were Joe's management consultant, what would you do?
Apparently, some of you would tell Joe "well, dude, that's just the way it is".
I'm merely suggesting that, in the real world, "that's just the way it is" would not fly as a rational solution.
discussion comment
12 years ago
And by the way, "that's just the way it is" isn't really a rational argument, is it? But that's about the best you guys can come up with. Forgive me for pushing back on an argument like that, but if you're going to argue with someone then at least provide a counterpoint that has some spine to it. And if you can't provide a rational counterpoint, then maybe it's time to just agree.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"You have no idea how much money the guys in your example are spending on the girl"
Which is why I suggested a survey to provide numbers. But nobody is participating.
And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy as a factual reference for the hundreds of thousands of strip club customers, then fine. I don't. Especially if he won't even provide his own numbers.
And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy, then use me. I've been to many clubs over many years, and like I said, virtually every time I've seen one or more hot girls locked down with a regular who is spending no money on her, whereas I'd gladly spend $60-80 for 10 or 15 minutes of her time.
I've given many rational and factual arguments, based on the real world and real world businesses. Did you not read them? I used names, and common business practices, and merely suggested that strip club managers might consider the real world. But apparently you don't like that idea, so you ignore it.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"If you want to improve things for people who want to spend less at strip clubs, then my suggestion is to optimize things from the customer point of view"
Wait a minute. Where do you guys get the idea my goal is to totally revamp the entire strip club system???
I'm posting some random thoughts on a freakin' website for guys who go to strip clubs. How does that suddenly translate into I'm trying to change the world?
I'm not. I don't care about changing the world. It would be nice if clubs operated differently, and if I managed some I'd probably try some of my recommendations. But I don't. Never will.
Geezus, guys, this forum is about BS'ing about strip clubs, not changing the world.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Jerkison will never change his opinion cause he believes he's 100% right and can't even consider the possibility that he could be wrong about anything"
No, the difference is that I give rational and factual statements, while most of you guys give blanket statements with no rational support. Just like Rick, he makes a statement but won't even provide his own data to support it.
If you can give a really rational argument to refute what I say, then do it. But if you just want to give me a hard time and make childish fun of my username, then fuck off.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Now Steffy, I know you were being a little sarcastic and trying to make a funny, but you have a really good point there that others have also made. And I think it deserves to be emphasized...
As I'm beginning to learn from you guys, strip clubs are NOT like the real world. In the real world, most people try to get MORE for LESS money. That's why there's WalMart and Costco and KMart and Home Depot and all the electronics importers and online retailers and all those places we all go to pay less and get more.
But, as you guys point out, strip clubs are totally different. In a strip club you're pretty much an a-hole if you try to get more for less. The goal in a strip club is to spend MORE.
Now, you might think it doesn't really make sense, right?
Well, you'd be wrong. The reason is, as Estefador implies, REAL men spend lots of money, and wimps don't. Anyone who knows anything realizes that the goal is to "make it rain" on them strippers. Whether you're a baller throwing a handful of singles onstage, or a rich white guy giving her $50 and $100 bills on the couches, it's all about being cool, and being a real man.
And it's also partly because REAL men pay girls to talk to them, and act like they like them. And the more you pay them, the cooler you are, and the more the girl likes you.
So, anyone gets the crazy idea you go into a strip club to have the most fun for the least amount of money, think again. That's what wimps do.