tuscl

Why do so many PL's think the world should revolve around them in a strip club?

Saturday, October 13, 2012 12:40 PM
Recent topics and discussions have brought me to the conclusion that many customers feel that dancers should flock to them just because they are in the club, it is the dancers obligation to solicit them for dances. A few points I would like to make. These are generalizations and may not be applicable to all circumstances, but they are based upon 30+ years of clubbing throughout North America. 1. Management really does not give a shit about the afternoon visitng PL. The club makes the bulk of its income in the evening party atmosphere. 2. Dancers may ignore you for many reasons. One of them may be that whatever they are doing at the moment, they prefer it to spending time with a middle aged out of shape PL nursing a water or soft drink in a club serving alcohol. Dancers spend a lot of time in clubs, they see a lot of customers, they form biases and stereotypes (right or wrong) based upon their experiences. They may be ignoring you because you just don't appeal to them. 3. Many times, the dancers hanging out really are not worth it when you do get dances from them. 4. My best experiences usually come from the attractive girls that are usually busy. If you are a regular, they will find you. These girls are good at what they do and know how to earn repeat business. Thus, they usually work fewer hours and make more money. 5. Every club has its good and bad dancers. If you are spending your time with the carless drug and alcohol abusers, then don't complain about all of the drama/problems, it was your choice to be a part of it. The girls that are what I call professional in their approach have cars, don't abuse drugs and alcohol and are in control of their lives and their ability to extract your money. These are the girls that offer the best OTC and are not repugnant to be seen in public with. I have much more, but I will end it before it becomes a Bookguy post.

69 comments

  • deogol
    •
    12 years ago
    Strip clubs are not known for good judgement: by strippers, customers, or management.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    The world doesn't revolve around me, NOR does any Club. There are though MANY arrogant members of TUSCL that do indeed think they are the ULTIMATE in Manhood & that EVERYTHING revolves around them. Just read a month or so of comments. They're easy to spot. LOL
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "Why do so many PL's think the world should revolve around them in a strip club?" A strip club is a business. A business has a primary goal, and that is to make money. A strip club is a "customer service" business, in which the service exists to entertain customers, and make customers happy. A customer service/entertainment business makes more money if it makes its customers happy and/or entertains them in a way they enjoy. Not rocket science. Each of the 5 items you posted is an excuse why clubs are the way they are. Management is the way it is, dancers are the way they are. But that has nothing to do with your question. Customers expect a customer service business to serve them, and entertain them. They expect and hope to be entertained when they go to the movies. They expect and hope that a restaurant will make their dining experience a good one. The expect and hope that when they go to a show in Las Vegas they'll be blown away. And they expect that when they go to a strip club the strippers will entertain them. The movies, the restaurants, the shows, and the clubs who do the best job of making their customers happy and entertaining them are probably those that make the most money. Repeat business, word of mouth, telling friends, positive reviews, etc., all happen when customers have a positive experience. And it's the job of the business to figure out what it is they need to do to make the customers happy. Those who don't figure it out, or meet those expectations, probably won't do as well. If management doesn't give a fuck, or the strippers have their reasons for ignoring some customers, that is nothing more than an excuse why the business is probably losing business it could otherwise have. Is it really that difficult to understand?
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    By the way, to extend the analogy, if you walked into a restaurant and sat there for an hour waiting for a waitress to stop by, would you make the same excuses for the waitresses, and list the reasons why they may not be taking care of you? Would you make the same excuses for management? No, you'd get pissed and walk out. Whether management didn't like daytime customers or customers who didn't spend much wouldn't even enter your mind. Nor would you care if the waitresses didn't make enough tips from guys like you, so they decided not to wait on you.
  • jester214
    •
    12 years ago
    And there's one in particular arrogant member who talks down to people because he rides around on top of a horse.
  • lopaw
    •
    12 years ago
    Don't know about #2-5, but the #1 statement is completely wrong. Believe me - the smarter managers give a gigantic shit about daytime customers, since many daytime customers tend to be regulars that spend a reasonable amount of cash and they are the ones that dayshift dancers depend on for their cashflow. As a daytimer, I've had managers bend over backward to make sure that I'm happy & comped for things like cover charges, drinks, parking, etc. They know where the money is coming from, regardless of the time of day.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    "Management really does not give a shit about the afternoon visitng PL. The club makes the bulk of its income in the evening party atmosphere" This reasoning doesn't make very much sense. If they didn't care they would open it up later. They aren't doing it for charity's sake either, it's because they make money. Even if they are only making 20% of their money from the day shift no sane business person is going to ignore 20% of their profit. That a very considerable portion. Also keep in mind expenses are lower during the day, and, as dancers told me, although there are less customers during the day, those that are there to spend.
  • txtittyfan
    •
    12 years ago
    If mgmnt cared about the daytime PL, we would not have so many complaints from people about music, DJ, being ignored etc. The bulk of the revenue to a club comes from the evening not the daytime. Clubs primarily cater to the party crowd and groups of people, not the single customer. The wants of the daytime customer are different than those of the evening customer, but yet mgmnt doesn't do anything to make the club any different during the day. And Jerikson, instead of pissing and moaning about what a club should do to meet your expectations, you need to accept them for what they are and adapt.
  • lopaw
    •
    12 years ago
    ^^^I disagree. I'm sure alot depends on where you club. All I can tell you is that many of the clubs I go to do cater to the daytime folks, even going so far as to drop forced valet parking and remove cover charge before 6pm. Add on the individual perks alloted to some, and I certainly am not complaining about it. And as far as griping goes - the older folks tend to be the primary customer base during the days, and as a group they are well known to be grumpy & demanding - so why would anyone expect otherwise?
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    Lopaw, I'm an older gentleman & I am NOT grumpy & demanding. I am respectful, polite when I cum to a club in the afternoon. Being an Asshole IMHO doesn't work.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    txtittyfan the MUSIC is TOO Fucking loud no matter what time it is. I believe it is done by Management intentionally. I certainly wouldn't mind less stupid Rap music. Particularly when the Big majority of patrons AREN'T the Gangsta crowd.
  • jester214
    •
    12 years ago
    Clubs drop charges during the day to attract more business, not to "cater" to it. Txtitty is correct in that they make the majority of there money at night. Particularly Saturday and Sunday night. This is true of any establishment that has a bar, bars = huge markups = biggest profit. If they can break even during the day, they'll be open during the day. That's just good business practice.
  • avalons07
    •
    12 years ago
    TTF,I know exactly who your talking about.
  • DandyDan
    •
    12 years ago
    Personally, I think it should revolve around me, because if it didn't, then what was the point of going? Disappointing trips to strip clubs happen for the most part as a result of being ignored, which is a byproduct of poor customer service. The fact is, I shouldn't have to go ask for a dance, they should come to me, and tipping them on stage ought to be a cue for them to understand that. I realize it doesn't always work like that in every club, but it would be optimal. The fact is, they prefer certainty over uncertainty, just like everyone else.
  • gatorfan
    •
    12 years ago
    No the world revolves around the moon not the strip club. Thank you Wikipedia.
  • rogertex
    •
    12 years ago
    According to owner of a local strip club "daytime customers pay the bills, nightime pays their bonuses" Daytime: fewer customers, but steady income for club - any day of the week, very few fights/drugs/drunk issues. Nightime: week nights are slow, weekends can get full and wild - but also disappoint often. The spikes in money come with its share of fights/drugs/drunks. I visit day or night - day girls tend to be hot, steady and responsible; night girls tend to be hotter - but with some drama. All good. Being respectful almost always translates to better dances and better service. And a strip club is the only remaining place on earth where a customer can stroke their ego. When I'm feeling like it - I tell the dancers/waitresses "today I wanna feel like a king, please treat me as if the world revolves around me!" Then be prepared for gettin 110% pamper n love
  • steve229
    •
    12 years ago
    "Personally, I think it should revolve around me' Exactly. If not, either you, the club or the dancers are doing something wrong.
  • lopaw
    •
    12 years ago
    "attract more business" or "cater to" doesn't matter the wording. Its semantics. Call it what you want but if a business modifies how it's doing things in an attempt to draw in more business it is addressing the demands of that group of people, period. Obviously by doing so proves that it does give a shit about that clientele. That is all that I am saying.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "And Jerikson, instead of pissing and moaning about what a club should do to meet your expectations, you need to accept them for what they are and adapt." Dude, nothing personal, but that's an idiotic statement. I don't need to do anything. I'm a customer. I have expectations, and those expectations are very reasonable, and are probably in line with what the vast majority of customers expect when they enter a strip club. Maybe not you, but most customers. We expect to be entertained. I explained why above. It's simple. Let's try it your way. Let's make a strip club where when the customer walks there's no music playing. There are strippers, but they don't strip. They are sitting around the room, all wearing street clothes, no makeup, no sexy clothes. They look like every average girl you see on the street. The rest spend most of the shift in the dressing room. None of the strippers circulate or talk to any of the customers. Ever. They just sit there. So the customer sits down, but has nothing to look at. Nobody dancing, no music playing, no hot looking strippers, nobody asking for lap dances. Now, are you going to tell all those customers that get pissed off and storm out the door, "hey, wait a minute, that's how we operate here, you need to stop pissing and moaning and accept us for what we are" If you do, you're an idiot. The customer doesn't have to do anything. He'll go down the street to a better club, or decide to to home and watch football. And he'll never come back. And your club with die. Why on earth do some of you guys feel this insatiable need to stick up for strip clubs and strippers who are incompetent? I can't understand it, but it seems to be a common desire most of you guys have.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    Looks like tittyfan's point one has been thoroughly demolished. Of course there is a difference between "day shift not as important as night shift" and "completely don't give a shit about day shift". But that's typical of tittyfan to overstrech and make ridiculous hyperbolic claims. Let's see if he admits he is wrong about it, or further digs himself in. I'm guessing the latter.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    Jerildon40: "Why on earth do some of you guys feel this insatiable need to stick up for strip clubs and strippers who are incompetent?" Strip clubs are all some of them have. It's not exactly Stockholm syndrome but along the same lines. An attempt to reduce dreaded cognitive dissonance even at the expense of seeing reality for what it clearly is. Does end up looking very odd to those without the need for similar psychological defense mechanisms, however.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "It's not exactly Stockholm syndrome but along the same lines. An attempt to reduce dreaded cognitive dissonance..." Dude, I have no clue WTF you're talking about. But I think the answer is more along the lines of this: It's been said that for most people, decision making is 80% emotional, and only %20 logical. Few people really think, or use logic, to form their beliefs. They believe what their emotions lead them to believe. Facts and rational thinking usually don't factor into it. So when you get into online discussions, for most people it's all about emotion. Facts and rational thinking just get in the way, and piss people off. And when you confront them with all that rational stuff, it upsets them because that's not how they operate. They also vote based on emotions, not based on really understanding and evaluating issues. They place their support behind that which agrees with them, or which they decide they "like". Most people, IMO, are really nothing more than very emotional 6-year-olds who never grow up. Guys here like strippers, therefore they place their support behind them. And the more they like strippers, the more they feel that strippers can do no wrong. She makes me feel awesome, therefore she's totally awesome. Not a lot of thought behind it.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    So are you Vulcan jerikson40? No emotions. 200% logic?
  • gatorfan
    •
    12 years ago
    Dougster why do you insist all strippers are lying thieving whores? Because they are
  • txtittyfan
    •
    12 years ago
    Jerikson, you are becoming another Dougster in your arguing points that were not expressed. In no way does your interpretation of "my way" actually represent anything I have evwer said about how a SC should operate. Dougster makes useless comments because he likes being an asshole. You on the other appear to just not get the point. Lets use PP in South Carolina as an example. In my time as a member of TUSCL it has been reviewed by many older members who have visited during the day. The common complaint is that is too loud and has an obnoxious DJ. They have even complained to management. Did anything change? No, did they stop going? No. Management did not care about their concerns as PL's. They are not the target market, they are not where they derive the majority of their income. Management runs the club to create the environment they feel maximizes their image and business. Now in your thinking, the club would just lose the PL business in the afternoon. But in reality, they don't. We are there for the girls, not the environment. Management knows that. Now on Fri and Sat night when the club is packed, and they are making thousands in tip out and cover charges, do you think they look at each other and say "shit, we lost a PL who drinks water or soda today, its killing us". Music is a common complaint here. The older day crowd prefers different music than the current rap and whatever else is played. If management really gave a shit you would think that they would play more music that the afternoon PL would like. But they don't because they don't care. They have topless and/or naked women in their eyes, that's all they need. Lowering costs for the daytime is not catering to the daytime crowd. Prices are not lowered for the daytime, they are raised for the evening when they get the crowds that want to party with hot women. Management is not stupid, they know how to maximize their revenue.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    12 years ago
    If SCs didn’t give a shit about dayshift, then why would they bother to open at all. IME, customer service at SCs is shitty most of the time at most SCs; and often worst in the busy evenings. IME, some of my best overall experiences have been during day visits – best in terms of dancer attention/service and staff/management treatment. Tootsies in Miami is open 365 days a year, that is right, they never close to the best of my knowledge. I was there Jan 1st of this year b/c I was bored at home and decided to check if Tootsies was open since they have a very nice sports bar area to watch games. To my surprise, they were open, during the day, on Jan 1st – when I told the girl at the entrance that I was surprised they were open on the 1st (during the day), she said “we’re always open, we don’t close on any days”. One would think there is a valid reason why many clubs are open during the day and seem to want and appreciate the business.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "You on the other appear to just not get the point" No, it's that your point is ridiculous. They make money during dayshift. Anyone who enters the door pays a cover. Free money. And maybe a drink. Free money. And maybe a lap. Again, free money. To argue that it's reasonable for management to not care about, or cater to, guys who bring in free money when they walk in the door, and who could just as easily go down the street to another club and never return, is just stupid. It takes ZERO effort to change daytime music. ZERO. It also takes little effort to cater to a daytime crowd. How you can justify them treating "non-target", paying customers as not worth their time is just beyond belief. And then to equate that with "maximizing their revenue" is beyond stupid. Many, many times I've walked out of clubs with at least $100 in my pocket, unspent, because the club sucked. If it hadn't sucked I would have given them my money. Very simple. Happens all the time. But you aren't going to admit anything outside of what you want to believe.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    If in your opinion a club SUCKS, by all means try to find one that meets your needs. There are a lot out there unless you are with Art drilling for Black Gold!
  • txtittyfan
    •
    12 years ago
    Yes they make money during the day, but no they do not modify their club environment to cater to the daytime PL, if they did you would not be walking out, right? They don't care if you walk out. Besides, in most clubs your walking out hurts the dancers, not the club, they already made money out of your drink. What you need to realize is that the clubs do not need to cater to the PL to be successful, and they don't as a result. As I have said before, you need to change your expectations because the clubs are not going to change their methods. It doesn't matter if you think that is right or wrong because that is the way it is. Bars/clubs are open during the day because they they have daytime needs to do paperwork, receive inventory and prepare for the night(where they generate the bulk of their income). Daytime revenue primarily goes to offset the expense of these staffing needs. Since you like analogies, it is similar to grocery stores staying open all night. They are staffed anyway for stocking and preparing for the next day, they might as well generate revenue doing it. Now I provided an example to support my premise, and past discussions on this board have supported this position, all you need to do now is accept the reality.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "Bars/clubs are open during the day because they they have daytime needs to do paperwork, receive inventory and prepare for the night(where they generate the bulk of their income). Daytime revenue primarily goes to offset the expense of these staffing needs." Dude, with all due respect, you're a moron. You can't be serious. Let me give you real life example. Club I go to opens at 11am. They have, on staff, a waitress, a manager, a DJ, a bouncer/door guy, and bartender. That's five people. Now, according to you, they need five people, a waitress, a manager, a DJ, a bouncer/door guy, and a bartender to "do paperwork, receive inventory, and prepare for the night". Am I hearing you correctly? Receive inventory? Do paperwork? INVENTORY? What type of inventory? What type of paperwork? And why would they bring on five people, at $8-10 per hour each, for a total RISK of something like $40-50 per hour they have to make up EACH HOUR just to break even? But more importantly, are you actually serious that it's okay if they don't care about attracting and keeping customers? Are you serious? Basically they're telling dayshift customers "fuck off, we're busy doing inventory and paperwork. Come back in the evening when we give a shit about you". And what about the clubs who don't open during dayshift? There's a bunch in my area. How do they get that all important inventory and paperwork done? Dude, seriously, I can't have a rational discussion with someone who's totally irrational.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "daytime customers pay the bills, nightime pays their bonuses" By the way, I think Rogertex probably nailed it with his statement from a club owner. For his business, apparently daytime customers pay the bills. And those bills are the monthly bills (lease on the building, insurance, etc.) plus the hourly costs for whenever they open the doors (staff, airconditioning, lights, water, drinks, etc.). To say that daytime customers aren't important to a business is insane. ALL customers are important to a business. The more customers a club has, the more money they make. The more often those customers return, the more money they make. That's why businesses try to not only attract customers, but also make them happy so that they return over and over and over and over. No owner/manager in their right mind would disregard a paying customer. Because the owner has bills to pay, and has to make a profit.
  • txtittyfan
    •
    12 years ago
    You still don't get the point, and probably never will. When do you think they replenish the alcohol, it's called inventory. Have you ever noticed in a club all of the daytime deliveries? Have you never seen the bartenders slicing lemons and limes, the barbacks stocking the coolers? You might if you actually observe what is going on behind the scenes rather than storming out because you're not getting the attention you think you deserve. I never said the daytime customer is not important, I said they don't care about the wants of a PL regarding how a club should operate. Why is that so difficult to understand? I even provided an example and an analogy for you. This time though I typed slowly for you, but it still may not help. And if you think paperwork is not a burden for a club, hiow do you think receipts get tallied, deposits made, inventory ordered and received, bills paid, payroll processed, general maintenance etc? You really do not have a fucking clue.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    Okay, txtittyfan, I give up. You're right, I'm wrong, and I'm sorry I challenged you, because you're far more knowledgeable than I ever will be. Feel better now?
  • txtittyfan
    •
    12 years ago
    Simple solution Jerikson. The next time you feel the need to leave a club because you do not like the way it is run, instead of whining here, tell the manager. Let hom know that you don't approve of the way he is running the club. Then come back here and tell us how well it worked for you.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    @Gatorfan: would you cut that non-sense. I never said all were. Some people just wanted to argue against the straw man versus the real position because it's so easy. Arguing against the real position, OTOH, is hard, because it is right. @jerikson: never heard of cognitive dissonance or Stockholm syndrome? Back to the textbooks for you!
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    Jeikson40: "Dude, seriously, I can't have a rational discussion with someone who's totally irrational. " Perfect description of tittyfan. But it gets worse. Not only is incapable of being rational but he hates those who do have that capacity. He's trolling routine is spew irrational crap like "only nice guys can get extras in a stup club" just because he gets amused when rational minds knock his idiotic positions. Lately nothing is so stupid/irrational that it's off limits for him to say. Even if he contradicts himself in as little as one thread. Really weird fellow.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    Love how tittyfan contradicted himsel here "they don't give a shit about daytime PLs" in his first post is now "well yeah they do care about them, but at the same turn they don't give a shit". It's all trolling though. Tittyfan knows he is contradicting himsel and that pisses of rational people, but that's what he does to use himself as part if his trolling routine. Exactly how I knew he won't just admit he was wrong but just dig in deeper.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    "It's not exactly Stockholm syndrome but along the same lines. An attempt to reduce dreaded cognitive dissonance..." I know what those terms mean even if you don't jerikson40! LMAO And here I thought you were a self proclaimed EXPERT on all things.
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    Txtittyfan still didn't admit he was wrong on point 1? No surprise... He knew it all along but loves to say knowingly false things just to stir up shit.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "Txtittyfan still didn't admit he was wrong on point 1? No surprise..." Dude, there are people in this world, many, many people, who are physically incapable of admitting they are wrong. Absolutely, positively, physically incapable. They will say stuff that a normal person would be embarrassed to say because it's insane (y'know, stuff like 'slicing lemons'), but will never admit they're wrong. But when you try to challenge them they'll just say stuff that's even more insane in an attempt to deflect your challenge. And they'll never, ever, ever admit they're wrong. Because, to them, admitting they are wrong is a fate worse than death. It's an ego thing. They actually think that admitting they're wrong means they're a bad person, and their egos are far too fragile to allow them to admit they're a bad person. And in fact, all they really want is for you to act like you agree with them. Even if you clearly don't, and give them a totally sarcastic and meaningless apology, it's enough to make them happy. The other day the Dustin Hoffmann movie "Rain Man" was on the tube. And the whole sense of the movie was this: we tend to assume that everyone we meet is capable of having a rational interaction, but in fact there are some people who just aren't. And it's incredibly frustrating, but it is what it is. You ask them "how much does a car cost?" and they reply "$100". Then you ask "how much does a pencil cost?" and they reply "$100. Yeah, $100. And I'm an excellent driver". You'll never get anywhere with them. They're incapable. Kinda sad, but people are what they are.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    Sounds like you are speaking of your own posting tactics Mr Dougster.
  • rickdugan
    •
    12 years ago
    "Dude, there are people in this world, many, many people, who are physically incapable of admitting they are wrong. Absolutely, positively, physically incapable. They will say stuff that a normal person would be embarrassed to say because it's insane (y'know, stuff like 'slicing lemons'), but will never admit they're wrong. But when you try to challenge them they'll just say stuff that's even more insane in an attempt to deflect your challenge. And they'll never, ever, ever admit they're wrong. Because, to them, admitting they are wrong is a fate worse than death." Wow jerikson, that was a real piece of self aware posting there. Oh wait - now I realize that you were talking about everyone else and not yourself. I take that back then. Jerikson, you are so emotionally invested in your beliefs that you have completely bulldozed through several good points made, time and again, by multiple seasoned strip club hounds and now even believe that you know more about maximizing club profits than the club owners themselves. Wow - I guess this all must be easier for you to believe than the simple fact that you don't hold a lot of value as a customer for these clubs and dancers. Alrighty then. ;)
  • Dougster
    •
    12 years ago
    @jerikson40: yep, people with narcissistic personality disorder behave exactly as you describe and for the reasons you describe. I don't think tittyfan would get the full DX for NPD - he is still subclinical - but he is definitely well along the way down the spectrum.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    Rick, look, I know you don't like me because I argued with you. I get it. And I know that, because of that, from now on you'll be taking pot shots at me, no matter what I say. I get it. But just try to make a rational point instead of just attacking, okay? Just try. And you can start with explaining why you guys are so convinced that it's reasonable for a strip club manager to treat ANY customer who brings free money in the door like shit. But you can't. Nobody can. Because it IS stupid. No matter how you slice the lemon, it's stupid. No matter how "seasoned" you are, no matter how many years you've been visiting clubs, it doesn't make sense. Because every business on the planet has a goal to attract customers, and keep them coming back. That's how businesses survive.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    "...you are so emotionally invested in your beliefs" And Rick, I know you desperately want to characterize me as being "emotionally invested" in my beliefs, but it's not emotion, it's being RATIONAL. When someone says something stupid, it's rational to counter that with logic. Which is all I'm doing. I would be more than happy to admit I'm wrong if you could give me some reason to do so. In fact, I just admitted I was wrong in another thread about the bogus-ness of many of the reviews here. I was convinced that many were bogus, but a lot of experienced guys said I was wrong. Which I was. That's fine, I appreciate the info, and gladly admit I was wrong. Not a problem for me to admit I'm wrong when I'm given a good reason that shows I'm full of crap. Just give me a good reason...
  • rickdugan
    •
    12 years ago
    The last bastion of the simple minded: They are arguing with me not because I am wrong, but because they don't like being disagreed with or hearing what I have to say. ;) Jerikson, what do you want? Time lapse photos of bigger spenders slipping money to dancers under the tables? Copies of club income vs. expense analyses showing you that many clubs actually LOSE money, or break-even at best, by being open during the day (the ones that even bother to open during the day at all)? Certified psychiatric reports on the dancers? Polls conducted of dancers that provide trending analyses for answers to a series of questions relating to why they do what they do? Because absent those things, I don't see how you will ever let go of your simplistic and uninformed beliefs. All "opinions" on these topics are not created equal. Your beliefs are based upon very limited data sets while others with vastly more experience than you have been trying to explain some of the hows and whys. Your responses to all of this have been to either retort with a silly "show me proof" statement or to simply ignore what was said to you altogether. Frankly, I'm not sure what else there is to say to you. You will either listen to more experienced people or you will not. Perhaps you should ratchet your spending up (a lot), get another year or two of more serious club interactions under your belt, and then compare your understanding at that time against what you believe today. I think that you would be amazed at how different your views would be.
  • jerikson40
    •
    12 years ago
    So, Rick, your response is that you have no response, and I just need to trust you and the other senior, experienced guys, and maybe, when I get more experienced, suddenly the light will come on and I'll understand. Okay. That's pretty clear. I asked you a simple question. I asked you to explain why you're convinced that it is "reasonable for a strip club manager to treat ANY customer who brings free money in the door like shit". But you can't. You and others believe it's reasonable, but you can't explain why you believe that. You're right, there's not much more to be said.
  • Estafador
    •
    12 years ago
    Wow the thread got sooo damn long I had to stop reading. Although as a new guy, I can't really say much on the topic I can say this. It seems like everyone here is basing their ideals on just a particular club they visit and not a mass of them. I would say the best way to get your point across is to mention at the very least 3-5 clubs that all act in a similar manner (not owned by the same company). You can't really make a good hypothesis on one item can you. Its the same as saying a cactus can survive in dry spaces, so every plant in the world can do the same. That's all I can really input here じゃね
  • jerikson40
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    12 years ago
    "You can't really make a good hypothesis on one item can you" You CAN make a good hypothesis when you base it on a fact. The fact is that every business on the planet relies on customers. And it makes more money when it has more customers. And it makes more money when it can keep those customers coming back. That is a fact. That is how businesses operate. Are strip clubs different? No. Might a particular club manager be clueless about that simple and basic fact, and in fact treat his customers like shit because he's an idiot and a poor manager? Of course. But that doesn't make it right. Nor does it make it generally true. The only thing that comes even close to what these guys are proposing is the case where a particular customer is bad for business, and causes damage to the employees or club reputation or whatever. But that is rare in any business, and is certainly not the case in general. The only other thing that might apply to a few clubs is the desire to change public perception of a particular club, and, for example, give the perception that your club is for high rollers and big spenders. It's called marketing. You market your club as "The Gold Club" or the "Rolex" club, hoping to draw big spenders. You make the interior classy, etc. But is that the average club in the US? Of course not. And does that mean you treat dayshift customers like crap? Not at all. Unless you're an idiot. They bring free money into the club, and, especially with an expensive "Rolex" club you need that money to pay the lease, to pay for staff, to pay for air conditioning, to pay for lights, etc.
  • jerikson40
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    12 years ago
    Oh, and I thought of one other thing that they might be using to justify their position. If the club loses money during, say, the 11am to noon hour, then of course the manager isn't happy. Let's say the expenses (staff, utilities, etc.) associated with keeping the doors open during that hour are more than the revenues from the 3 customers that come in and pay $10 each during that hour. So what does the management/owner do? He's regularly losing money from 11am to noon. Well, you can either treat the customers who come in during that time like shit, which means they won't come back, in which case you lose even more money between 11am and noon. Or, you CLOSE THE FUCKING DOORS between 11am and noon. There's a club I like to go to that doesn't open until 3pm on weekdays. It's in a low rent area, they probably lose money during dayshift, so they don't even open. There is never a good reason to treat customers like shit. They give you money.
  • jerikson40
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    12 years ago
    Oh, and this is obvious, but I'll say it anyway... The other option if you're losing money between 11am and noon is to treat those customers really well, and maybe they'll keep coming back, and maybe even tell their friends, and maybe if you manage it right, you'll stop LOSING money from 11am to noon and actually start MAKING money. Maybe you work a little harder to make the dayshift a great place to be, and guys will start streaming in during lunchtime.
  • Alucard
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    12 years ago
    Jerikson40, it is my impression that you are DESPERATE to convince the world (or at least the TUSCL world) that you right. WHY else these very detailed comments?
  • jerikson40
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    12 years ago
    "It is pretty much a truism anywhere that 10% of the people take up 90% of your time and some SCs may happily choose to forego the income." Absolutely. There's a story about Herb Kelleher, CEO of Southwest Airlines, who was presented with a problem customer who was always complaining and treating his employees like crap and writing nasty letters and just being a bitch. She kept warning Southwest that if they didn't do what she wanted she'd stop flying with them. Exasperated, his underlings sent the problem to Kelleher. His response to her? "Sorry to see you go". Some customers just ain't worth the hassle. No question. But as you said, that's the small exception. A good manager recognizes that all customers should be, to some extent, "coddled". Of course, you can't please everyone. But a good manager tries to strike a balance. But, for example, saying "fuck you" when a bunch of your dayshift guys ask you to play some different music is moronic. It takes zero effort, and could be beneficial.
  • minnow
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    12 years ago
    HUMOR BREAK: How many stripclub customers does it take to screw in a lightbulb ? One, he holds the lightbulb, and lets the world revolve around him..........
  • Dougster
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    12 years ago
    Minnow: Nice one! I actually think that understanding the theory of narcissism goes a long way toward understand a lot of stripper, customer, and, unfortunately sometimes, even management behavior. Much better than theories where everyone is a rational player. Of course there are other realms of psychology that also help understand things, but that is the big one.
  • Estafador
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    12 years ago
    Jerikson, I have never really been one to side for or against any side and we can all attest I always give 1 fuck about anything. But your showing yourself to be uncompromising. If your trying to win this argument that's dandy but your just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid. and don't take anyone else's word into consideration. Not a good look brown. This is how I'm perceiving you from my point of view anyway
  • Estafador
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    12 years ago
    damn auto correct bro*=brown
  • txtittyfan
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    12 years ago
    Simple solution Jerikson. The next time you feel the need to leave a club because you do not like the way it is run, instead of whining here, tell the manager. Let hom know that you don't approve of the way he is running the club. Then come back here and tell us how well it worked for you
  • jerikson40
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    12 years ago
    "But your showing yourself to be uncompromising. If your trying to win this argument that's dandy but your just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you stupid. and don't take anyone else's word into consideration" So tell me, does that same logic not apply to txtittyfan and to rickdugan? I post pages and pages of rationale and examples, and they both refuse to accept a single word of it, or post a single bit of rational support for their position. Instead, all they provide is "trust me, because I'm a seasoned veteran". And it's worth noting, BTW, that just about everyone here apparently disagrees with their position, including rogertex's quote from an actual strip club owner. But you call me out for being uncompromising and showing bad form? Hmm....
  • txtittyfan
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    12 years ago
    Since you seem to have missed some of my rational support for my comments I copied them below. Enlighten me as to what is irrational about them. If mgmnt cared about the daytime PL, we would not have so many complaints from people about music, DJ, being ignored etc. The bulk of the revenue to a club comes from the evening not the daytime. Clubs primarily cater to the party crowd and groups of people, not the single customer. The wants of the daytime customer are different than those of the evening customer, but yet mgmnt doesn't do anything to make the club any different during the day Lets use PP in South Carolina as an example. In my time as a member of TUSCL it has been reviewed by many older members who have visited during the day. The common complaint is that is too loud and has an obnoxious DJ. They have even complained to management. Did anything change? No, did they stop going? No. Management did not care about their concerns as PL's. They are not the target market, they are not where they derive the majority of their income. Management runs the club to create the environment they feel maximizes their image and business. Now in your thinking, the club would just lose the PL business in the afternoon. But in reality, they don't. We are there for the girls, not the environment. Management knows that. Now on Fri and Sat night when the club is packed, and they are making thousands in tip out and cover charges, do you think they look at each other and say "shit, we lost a PL who drinks water or soda today, its killing us". Music is a common complaint here. The older day crowd prefers different music than the current rap and whatever else is played. If management really gave a shit you would think that they would play more music that the afternoon PL would like. But they don't because they don't care. They have topless and/or naked women in their eyes, that's all they need.
  • Papi_Chulo
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    12 years ago
    Geez!!! Similar to Estafador, I became exhausted reading thru this thread. I think we need to agree to disagree at times and leave it at that. We are all individuals and often have different preferences and things that make us tick – perhaps we should leave it at that and respect each other’s points of views?
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    Papi_Chulo unfortunately there are members who are SO intensely ARROGANT that they totally and completely believe & ABSOLUTELY need the entirety of the world to acknowledge and agree that they know EVERYTHING. And THAT no one else knows anything. These people will not agree to disagree. Read the threads here. These members AREN'T hard for any person with any intelligence to spot. LOL
  • Dougster
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    12 years ago
    So now tittyfan is back to arguing "don't give a shit" again? Before that he was arguing "they do care" for a while. He changes his story so many times it's hard to keep it straight!
  • Estafador
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    12 years ago
    oh no jerikson, you are DEFINETELY not the only one. TTF and dougster among others have done the same thing as well. *builds his defenses* I'm ready for the offensive remarks
  • deogol
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    12 years ago
    I am not sure how all this jawing is to my benefit.
  • Alucard
    •
    12 years ago
    deogol, no one says you are REQUIRED to read the comments. Find other reading material.
  • deogol
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    12 years ago
    No sense of humor.
  • Papi_Chulo
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    12 years ago
    I think the best way to close out this thread is to close it out in “Stevie229” style: “Sometimes I’m right, but I can be wrong My own believes are in my song … I am everyday people” Check out the lyrics dudes: [view link]
  • Dougster
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    11 years ago
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