Why do so many PL's think the world should revolve around them in a strip club?
txtittyfan
A few points I would like to make. These are generalizations and may not be applicable to all circumstances, but they are based upon 30+ years of clubbing throughout North America.
1. Management really does not give a shit about the afternoon visitng PL. The club makes the bulk of its income in the evening party atmosphere.
2. Dancers may ignore you for many reasons. One of them may be that whatever they are doing at the moment, they
prefer it to spending time with a middle aged out of shape PL nursing a water or soft drink in a club serving alcohol. Dancers spend a lot of time in clubs, they see a lot of customers, they form biases and stereotypes (right or wrong) based upon their experiences. They may be ignoring you because you just don't appeal to them.
3. Many times, the dancers hanging out really are not worth it when you do get dances from them.
4. My best experiences usually come from the attractive girls that are usually busy. If you are a regular, they will find you. These girls are good at what they do and know how to earn repeat business. Thus, they usually work fewer hours and make more money.
5. Every club has its good and bad dancers. If you are spending your time with the carless drug and alcohol abusers, then don't complain about all of the drama/problems, it was your choice to be a part of it. The girls that are what I call professional in their approach have cars, don't abuse drugs and alcohol and are in control of their lives and their ability to extract your money. These are the girls that offer the best OTC and are not repugnant to be seen in public with.
I have much more, but I will end it before it becomes a Bookguy post.
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There are though MANY arrogant members of TUSCL that do indeed think they are the ULTIMATE in Manhood & that EVERYTHING revolves around them.
Just read a month or so of comments. They're easy to spot. LOL
A strip club is a business. A business has a primary goal, and that is to make money. A strip club is a "customer service" business, in which the service exists to entertain customers, and make customers happy. A customer service/entertainment business makes more money if it makes its customers happy and/or entertains them in a way they enjoy. Not rocket science.
Each of the 5 items you posted is an excuse why clubs are the way they are. Management is the way it is, dancers are the way they are. But that has nothing to do with your question.
Customers expect a customer service business to serve them, and entertain them. They expect and hope to be entertained when they go to the movies. They expect and hope that a restaurant will make their dining experience a good one. The expect and hope that when they go to a show in Las Vegas they'll be blown away. And they expect that when they go to a strip club the strippers will entertain them. The movies, the restaurants, the shows, and the clubs who do the best job of making their customers happy and entertaining them are probably those that make the most money. Repeat business, word of mouth, telling friends, positive reviews, etc., all happen when customers have a positive experience.
And it's the job of the business to figure out what it is they need to do to make the customers happy. Those who don't figure it out, or meet those expectations, probably won't do as well.
If management doesn't give a fuck, or the strippers have their reasons for ignoring some customers, that is nothing more than an excuse why the business is probably losing business it could otherwise have.
Is it really that difficult to understand?
No, you'd get pissed and walk out. Whether management didn't like daytime customers or customers who didn't spend much wouldn't even enter your mind. Nor would you care if the waitresses didn't make enough tips from guys like you, so they decided not to wait on you.
They know where the money is coming from, regardless of the time of day.
This reasoning doesn't make very much sense. If they didn't care they would open it up later. They aren't doing it for charity's sake either, it's because they make money. Even if they are only making 20% of their money from the day shift no sane business person is going to ignore 20% of their profit. That a very considerable portion. Also keep in mind expenses are lower during the day, and, as dancers told me, although there are less customers during the day, those that are there to spend.
And Jerikson, instead of pissing and moaning about what a club should do to meet your expectations, you need to accept them for what they are and adapt.
And as far as griping goes - the older folks tend to be the primary customer base during the days, and as a group they are well known to be grumpy & demanding - so why would anyone expect otherwise?
I certainly wouldn't mind less stupid Rap music. Particularly when the Big majority of patrons AREN'T the Gangsta crowd.
Txtitty is correct in that they make the majority of there money at night. Particularly Saturday and Sunday night. This is true of any establishment that has a bar, bars = huge markups = biggest profit.
If they can break even during the day, they'll be open during the day. That's just good business practice.
"daytime customers pay the bills, nightime pays their bonuses"
Daytime: fewer customers, but steady income for club - any day of the week, very few fights/drugs/drunk issues.
Nightime: week nights are slow, weekends can get full and wild - but also disappoint often. The spikes in money come with its share of fights/drugs/drunks.
I visit day or night - day girls tend to be hot, steady and responsible; night girls tend to be hotter - but with some drama. All good.
Being respectful almost always translates to better dances and better service. And a strip club is the only remaining place on earth where a customer can stroke their ego. When I'm feeling like it - I tell the dancers/waitresses "today I wanna feel like a king, please treat me as if the world revolves around me!"
Then be prepared for gettin 110% pamper n love
Exactly. If not, either you, the club or the dancers are doing something wrong.
Dude, nothing personal, but that's an idiotic statement. I don't need to do anything. I'm a customer. I have expectations, and those expectations are very reasonable, and are probably in line with what the vast majority of customers expect when they enter a strip club. Maybe not you, but most customers. We expect to be entertained. I explained why above. It's simple.
Let's try it your way. Let's make a strip club where when the customer walks there's no music playing. There are strippers, but they don't strip. They are sitting around the room, all wearing street clothes, no makeup, no sexy clothes. They look like every average girl you see on the street. The rest spend most of the shift in the dressing room. None of the strippers circulate or talk to any of the customers. Ever. They just sit there.
So the customer sits down, but has nothing to look at. Nobody dancing, no music playing, no hot looking strippers, nobody asking for lap dances.
Now, are you going to tell all those customers that get pissed off and storm out the door, "hey, wait a minute, that's how we operate here, you need to stop pissing and moaning and accept us for what we are"
If you do, you're an idiot. The customer doesn't have to do anything. He'll go down the street to a better club, or decide to to home and watch football. And he'll never come back. And your club with die.
Why on earth do some of you guys feel this insatiable need to stick up for strip clubs and strippers who are incompetent? I can't understand it, but it seems to be a common desire most of you guys have.
Strip clubs are all some of them have. It's not exactly Stockholm syndrome but along the same lines. An attempt to reduce dreaded cognitive dissonance even at the expense of seeing reality for what it clearly is. Does end up looking very odd to those without the need for similar psychological defense mechanisms, however.
Dude, I have no clue WTF you're talking about.
But I think the answer is more along the lines of this:
It's been said that for most people, decision making is 80% emotional, and only %20 logical. Few people really think, or use logic, to form their beliefs. They believe what their emotions lead them to believe. Facts and rational thinking usually don't factor into it.
So when you get into online discussions, for most people it's all about emotion. Facts and rational thinking just get in the way, and piss people off. And when you confront them with all that rational stuff, it upsets them because that's not how they operate.
They also vote based on emotions, not based on really understanding and evaluating issues. They place their support behind that which agrees with them, or which they decide they "like". Most people, IMO, are really nothing more than very emotional 6-year-olds who never grow up.
Guys here like strippers, therefore they place their support behind them. And the more they like strippers, the more they feel that strippers can do no wrong. She makes me feel awesome, therefore she's totally awesome. Not a lot of thought behind it.
Because they are
Lets use PP in South Carolina as an example. In my time as a member of TUSCL it has been reviewed by many older members who have visited during the day. The common complaint is that is too loud and has an obnoxious DJ. They have even complained to management. Did anything change? No, did they stop going? No.
Management did not care about their concerns as PL's. They are not the target market, they are not where they derive the majority of their income. Management runs the club to create the environment they feel maximizes their image and business.
Now in your thinking, the club would just lose the PL business in the afternoon. But in reality, they don't. We are there for the girls, not the environment. Management knows that. Now on Fri and Sat night when the club is packed, and they are making thousands in tip out and cover charges, do you think they look at each other and say "shit, we lost a PL who drinks water or soda today, its killing us".
Music is a common complaint here. The older day crowd prefers different music than the current rap and whatever else is played. If management really gave a shit you would think that they would play more music that the afternoon PL would like. But they don't because they don't care. They have topless and/or naked women in their eyes, that's all they need.
Lowering costs for the daytime is not catering to the daytime crowd. Prices are not lowered for the daytime, they are raised for the evening when they get the crowds that want to party with hot women. Management is not stupid, they know how to maximize their revenue.
Tootsies in Miami is open 365 days a year, that is right, they never close to the best of my knowledge. I was there Jan 1st of this year b/c I was bored at home and decided to check if Tootsies was open since they have a very nice sports bar area to watch games. To my surprise, they were open, during the day, on Jan 1st – when I told the girl at the entrance that I was surprised they were open on the 1st (during the day), she said “we’re always open, we don’t close on any daysâ€.
One would think there is a valid reason why many clubs are open during the day and seem to want and appreciate the business.
No, it's that your point is ridiculous. They make money during dayshift. Anyone who enters the door pays a cover. Free money. And maybe a drink. Free money. And maybe a lap. Again, free money.
To argue that it's reasonable for management to not care about, or cater to, guys who bring in free money when they walk in the door, and who could just as easily go down the street to another club and never return, is just stupid.
It takes ZERO effort to change daytime music. ZERO. It also takes little effort to cater to a daytime crowd. How you can justify them treating "non-target", paying customers as not worth their time is just beyond belief. And then to equate that with "maximizing their revenue" is beyond stupid.
Many, many times I've walked out of clubs with at least $100 in my pocket, unspent, because the club sucked. If it hadn't sucked I would have given them my money. Very simple. Happens all the time. But you aren't going to admit anything outside of what you want to believe.
Besides, in most clubs your walking out hurts the dancers, not the club, they already made money out of your drink.
What you need to realize is that the clubs do not need to cater to the PL to be successful, and they don't as a result. As I have said before, you need to change your expectations because the clubs are not going to change their methods. It doesn't matter if you think that is right or wrong because that is the way it is.
Bars/clubs are open during the day because they they have daytime needs to do paperwork, receive inventory and prepare for the night(where they generate the bulk of their income). Daytime revenue primarily goes to offset the expense of these staffing needs. Since you like analogies, it is similar to grocery stores staying open all night. They are staffed anyway for stocking and preparing for the next day, they might as well generate revenue doing it.
Now I provided an example to support my premise, and past discussions on this board have supported this position, all you need to do now is accept the reality.
Dude, with all due respect, you're a moron. You can't be serious.
Let me give you real life example. Club I go to opens at 11am. They have, on staff, a waitress, a manager, a DJ, a bouncer/door guy, and bartender. That's five people.
Now, according to you, they need five people, a waitress, a manager, a DJ, a bouncer/door guy, and a bartender to "do paperwork, receive inventory, and prepare for the night".
Am I hearing you correctly? Receive inventory? Do paperwork?
INVENTORY? What type of inventory? What type of paperwork? And why would they bring on five people, at $8-10 per hour each, for a total RISK of something like $40-50 per hour they have to make up EACH HOUR just to break even?
But more importantly, are you actually serious that it's okay if they don't care about attracting and keeping customers? Are you serious? Basically they're telling dayshift customers "fuck off, we're busy doing inventory and paperwork. Come back in the evening when we give a shit about you".
And what about the clubs who don't open during dayshift? There's a bunch in my area. How do they get that all important inventory and paperwork done?
Dude, seriously, I can't have a rational discussion with someone who's totally irrational.
By the way, I think Rogertex probably nailed it with his statement from a club owner.
For his business, apparently daytime customers pay the bills. And those bills are the monthly bills (lease on the building, insurance, etc.) plus the hourly costs for whenever they open the doors (staff, airconditioning, lights, water, drinks, etc.).
To say that daytime customers aren't important to a business is insane. ALL customers are important to a business. The more customers a club has, the more money they make. The more often those customers return, the more money they make. That's why businesses try to not only attract customers, but also make them happy so that they return over and over and over and over.
No owner/manager in their right mind would disregard a paying customer. Because the owner has bills to pay, and has to make a profit.
I never said the daytime customer is not important, I said they don't care about the wants of a PL regarding how a club should operate. Why is that so difficult to understand? I even provided an example and an analogy for you. This time though I typed slowly for you, but it still may not help.
And if you think paperwork is not a burden for a club, hiow do you think receipts get tallied, deposits made, inventory ordered and received, bills paid, payroll processed, general maintenance etc? You really do not have a fucking clue.
Feel better now?
The next time you feel the need to leave a club because you do not like the way it is run, instead of whining here, tell the manager. Let hom know that you don't approve of the way he is running the club. Then come back here and tell us how well it worked for you.
@jerikson: never heard of cognitive dissonance or Stockholm syndrome? Back to the textbooks for you!
Perfect description of tittyfan. But it gets worse. Not only is incapable of being rational but he hates those who do have that capacity. He's trolling routine is spew irrational crap like "only nice guys can get extras in a stup club" just because he gets amused when rational minds knock his idiotic positions. Lately nothing is so stupid/irrational that it's off limits for him to say. Even if he contradicts himself in as little as one thread. Really weird fellow.
I know what those terms mean even if you don't jerikson40! LMAO
And here I thought you were a self proclaimed EXPERT on all things.
Dude, there are people in this world, many, many people, who are physically incapable of admitting they are wrong. Absolutely, positively, physically incapable. They will say stuff that a normal person would be embarrassed to say because it's insane (y'know, stuff like 'slicing lemons'), but will never admit they're wrong. But when you try to challenge them they'll just say stuff that's even more insane in an attempt to deflect your challenge. And they'll never, ever, ever admit they're wrong. Because, to them, admitting they are wrong is a fate worse than death.
It's an ego thing. They actually think that admitting they're wrong means they're a bad person, and their egos are far too fragile to allow them to admit they're a bad person.
And in fact, all they really want is for you to act like you agree with them. Even if you clearly don't, and give them a totally sarcastic and meaningless apology, it's enough to make them happy.
The other day the Dustin Hoffmann movie "Rain Man" was on the tube. And the whole sense of the movie was this: we tend to assume that everyone we meet is capable of having a rational interaction, but in fact there are some people who just aren't. And it's incredibly frustrating, but it is what it is.
You ask them "how much does a car cost?" and they reply "$100". Then you ask "how much does a pencil cost?" and they reply "$100. Yeah, $100. And I'm an excellent driver".
You'll never get anywhere with them. They're incapable. Kinda sad, but people are what they are.
Wow jerikson, that was a real piece of self aware posting there.
Oh wait - now I realize that you were talking about everyone else and not yourself. I take that back then.
Jerikson, you are so emotionally invested in your beliefs that you have completely bulldozed through several good points made, time and again, by multiple seasoned strip club hounds and now even believe that you know more about maximizing club profits than the club owners themselves. Wow - I guess this all must be easier for you to believe than the simple fact that you don't hold a lot of value as a customer for these clubs and dancers. Alrighty then. ;)
But just try to make a rational point instead of just attacking, okay? Just try.
And you can start with explaining why you guys are so convinced that it's reasonable for a strip club manager to treat ANY customer who brings free money in the door like shit.
But you can't. Nobody can. Because it IS stupid. No matter how you slice the lemon, it's stupid. No matter how "seasoned" you are, no matter how many years you've been visiting clubs, it doesn't make sense. Because every business on the planet has a goal to attract customers, and keep them coming back. That's how businesses survive.
And Rick, I know you desperately want to characterize me as being "emotionally invested" in my beliefs, but it's not emotion, it's being RATIONAL. When someone says something stupid, it's rational to counter that with logic. Which is all I'm doing.
I would be more than happy to admit I'm wrong if you could give me some reason to do so. In fact, I just admitted I was wrong in another thread about the bogus-ness of many of the reviews here. I was convinced that many were bogus, but a lot of experienced guys said I was wrong. Which I was. That's fine, I appreciate the info, and gladly admit I was wrong.
Not a problem for me to admit I'm wrong when I'm given a good reason that shows I'm full of crap. Just give me a good reason...
Jerikson, what do you want? Time lapse photos of bigger spenders slipping money to dancers under the tables? Copies of club income vs. expense analyses showing you that many clubs actually LOSE money, or break-even at best, by being open during the day (the ones that even bother to open during the day at all)? Certified psychiatric reports on the dancers? Polls conducted of dancers that provide trending analyses for answers to a series of questions relating to why they do what they do?
Because absent those things, I don't see how you will ever let go of your simplistic and uninformed beliefs. All "opinions" on these topics are not created equal. Your beliefs are based upon very limited data sets while others with vastly more experience than you have been trying to explain some of the hows and whys. Your responses to all of this have been to either retort with a silly "show me proof" statement or to simply ignore what was said to you altogether.
Frankly, I'm not sure what else there is to say to you. You will either listen to more experienced people or you will not.
Perhaps you should ratchet your spending up (a lot), get another year or two of more serious club interactions under your belt, and then compare your understanding at that time against what you believe today. I think that you would be amazed at how different your views would be.
Okay. That's pretty clear.
I asked you a simple question. I asked you to explain why you're convinced that it is "reasonable for a strip club manager to treat ANY customer who brings free money in the door like shit". But you can't. You and others believe it's reasonable, but you can't explain why you believe that.
You're right, there's not much more to be said.
You CAN make a good hypothesis when you base it on a fact. The fact is that every business on the planet relies on customers. And it makes more money when it has more customers. And it makes more money when it can keep those customers coming back. That is a fact. That is how businesses operate.
Are strip clubs different? No.
Might a particular club manager be clueless about that simple and basic fact, and in fact treat his customers like shit because he's an idiot and a poor manager? Of course. But that doesn't make it right. Nor does it make it generally true.
The only thing that comes even close to what these guys are proposing is the case where a particular customer is bad for business, and causes damage to the employees or club reputation or whatever. But that is rare in any business, and is certainly not the case in general.
The only other thing that might apply to a few clubs is the desire to change public perception of a particular club, and, for example, give the perception that your club is for high rollers and big spenders. It's called marketing. You market your club as "The Gold Club" or the "Rolex" club, hoping to draw big spenders. You make the interior classy, etc. But is that the average club in the US? Of course not.
And does that mean you treat dayshift customers like crap? Not at all. Unless you're an idiot. They bring free money into the club, and, especially with an expensive "Rolex" club you need that money to pay the lease, to pay for staff, to pay for air conditioning, to pay for lights, etc.
So what does the management/owner do? He's regularly losing money from 11am to noon. Well, you can either treat the customers who come in during that time like shit, which means they won't come back, in which case you lose even more money between 11am and noon.
Or, you CLOSE THE FUCKING DOORS between 11am and noon. There's a club I like to go to that doesn't open until 3pm on weekdays. It's in a low rent area, they probably lose money during dayshift, so they don't even open.
There is never a good reason to treat customers like shit. They give you money.
The other option if you're losing money between 11am and noon is to treat those customers really well, and maybe they'll keep coming back, and maybe even tell their friends, and maybe if you manage it right, you'll stop LOSING money from 11am to noon and actually start MAKING money. Maybe you work a little harder to make the dayshift a great place to be, and guys will start streaming in during lunchtime.
Absolutely. There's a story about Herb Kelleher, CEO of Southwest Airlines, who was presented with a problem customer who was always complaining and treating his employees like crap and writing nasty letters and just being a bitch. She kept warning Southwest that if they didn't do what she wanted she'd stop flying with them.
Exasperated, his underlings sent the problem to Kelleher. His response to her? "Sorry to see you go". Some customers just ain't worth the hassle.
No question.
But as you said, that's the small exception. A good manager recognizes that all customers should be, to some extent, "coddled". Of course, you can't please everyone. But a good manager tries to strike a balance. But, for example, saying "fuck you" when a bunch of your dayshift guys ask you to play some different music is moronic. It takes zero effort, and could be beneficial.
The next time you feel the need to leave a club because you do not like the way it is run, instead of whining here, tell the manager. Let hom know that you don't approve of the way he is running the club. Then come back here and tell us how well it worked for you
So tell me, does that same logic not apply to txtittyfan and to rickdugan?
I post pages and pages of rationale and examples, and they both refuse to accept a single word of it, or post a single bit of rational support for their position. Instead, all they provide is "trust me, because I'm a seasoned veteran".
And it's worth noting, BTW, that just about everyone here apparently disagrees with their position, including rogertex's quote from an actual strip club owner.
But you call me out for being uncompromising and showing bad form? Hmm....
my rational support for my comments I copied them below. Enlighten me as to what is irrational about them.
If mgmnt cared about the daytime PL, we would not have so many complaints from people about music, DJ, being ignored etc. The bulk of the revenue to a club comes from the evening not the daytime. Clubs primarily cater to the party crowd and groups of people, not the single customer. The wants of the daytime customer are different than those of the evening customer, but yet mgmnt doesn't do anything to make the club any different during the day
Lets use PP in South Carolina as an example. In my time as a member of TUSCL it has been reviewed by many older members who have visited during the day. The common complaint is that is too loud and has an obnoxious DJ. They have even complained to management. Did anything change? No, did they stop going? No.
Management did not care about their concerns as PL's. They are not the target market, they are not where they derive the majority of their income. Management runs the club to create the environment they feel maximizes their image and business.
Now in your thinking, the club would just lose the PL business in the afternoon. But in reality, they don't. We are there for the girls, not the environment. Management knows that. Now on Fri and Sat night when the club is packed, and they are making thousands in tip out and cover charges, do you think they look at each other and say "shit, we lost a PL who drinks water or soda today, its killing us".
Music is a common complaint here. The older day crowd prefers different music than the current rap and whatever else is played. If management really gave a shit you would think that they would play more music that the afternoon PL would like. But they don't because they don't care. They have topless and/or naked women in their eyes, that's all they need.
I think we need to agree to disagree at times and leave it at that. We are all individuals and often have different preferences and things that make us tick – perhaps we should leave it at that and respect each other’s points of views?
These people will not agree to disagree.
Read the threads here. These members AREN'T hard for any person with any intelligence to spot. LOL
“Sometimes I’m right,
but I can be wrong
My own believes are
in my song
…
I am everyday peopleâ€
Check out the lyrics dudes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ZIVNouS…