discussion comment
12 years ago
Y'know, this is really kind of fascinating. I'd like to take Rick's lesson and put some real numbers to it. Y'know, so that we REALLY start to understand, like Rick said, "strip club dynamics and economics".
So I propose we take a little survey...
For those guys who lock down ATF's when they're in the club, and spend hours socializing with them:
How much, on average, do you give your ATF per hour that she is with you in the club. Now don't forget to include ALL the money you give her, even if it's like rent money and gifts and stuff. Add up all the money you give her, and divide by the number of hours she sits with you in the club.
And then post your $$ per hour number for an ATF. But be honest guys, okay?
This should be good...
discussion comment
12 years ago
Okay Rick. Now that you said it more slowly, I'm starting to understand.
And your point is really quite brilliant. Basically, cater to a few customers, not a lot. Because you're guaranteed that those few guys will always spend hundreds of $$ every hour. And no group of non-regulars spends anywhere near that amount.
Wow. So you guys actually spend, what, $200 or $300 or $500 every hour that you're with your ATF? Really? Every time you're with her? Plus the rent money? Plus the gifts?
So how does that work? Like, you're talking to her, just socializing at the club, and every hour she stops, sticks out her hand and says, "Um, Rick baby..." at which time you reach into your wallet and pull out another $200?
If in fact you guys actually spend that kind of money on your ATF every single time, and that's the case with the majority of "regulars" who lock down ATF's, then yeah, maybe you're right.
But dude, that is so fucked up it's insane.
discussion comment
12 years ago
You guys can moan, and cry, and call me names, but here's the facts:
Most of what I'm suggesting is EXACTLY what most businesses on the planet do, and what they require of their employees. To deny that, and to suggest that strippers and strip clubs need to be treated differently, only means you have an irrational bias.
Most companies don't allow personal calls during work hours. That's a fact.
Most companies don't allow employees to sit on their asses and socialize all day. That's a fact.
Most managers tell employees to get to work if they're screwing off. That's a fact.
Most companies use older and/or more experienced employees to train mentor younger, less experienced employees. They also hire outside consultants to train. That's a fact.
Those items alone cover about 1/2 of my suggestions.
Now, since this is a group of mostly older guys who survive on the ATF concept, any suggestion to the contrary makes you guys get offended and pissed and start with the name calling. Totally childish and totally expected.
If you feel that strippers are special, and shouldn't have to act like other workers on the planet, and shouldn't have to follow rules that might help the business, then you're free to believe what you want.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Like I said before, I don't give a fuck if a girl goes up on stage. It's kinda nice to see who they are and if they're hot, but you can see that better if they sit down with you.
However, if a girl is only there to go on stage, then management needs to realize that there are some guys who are going to want lap dances with her, and if she doesn't do dances they might get pissed. The more girls like that, the worse for the club. If I went into a club and a bunch of girls said "oh, yeah, sorry, I only dance on stage" I'd be outta there in a heartbeat. As with any business, the more flexible the employees, the better it is for the business.
And when businesses start catering to the whims of the employees, like many of you guys seem to be suggesting, it could be very bad for business. "Oh, I only dance on stage, and I only spend time with regulars who give me at least $500 an hour, and I only work on alternate Fridays between 5pm and 8pm, and..."
That kind of bullshit isn't good for business, but you guys seem to think it's somehow important.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"What can you do though?"
What you can do is hire a freakin' manager who knows how to manage. Someone who tells the girls "look, while you're sitting on your ass socializing I've got customers getting pissed and walking out the door, which means I'm losing money. If you don't want to work, then don't come here any more". Someone who can keep the regulars happy and also treat the non-regulars with a little respect.
I was at a club a couple weeks ago, it was pretty dead, some girls socializing with regulars, nobody really making the rounds. The manager and DJ and some girls were BS'ing and laughing over near the DJ booth. I was getting bored, thinking about bailing, and the manager notices and tells a couple girls to go over and talk to me. So one girl comes over and tells me the manager told her to come over and talk to me. Apparently it never occurred to her to, like, talk to the customers.
Yeah, I think that lots of strippers are clueless like that. And others are just lazy. And others are just the opposite, and work hard. Just like employees in any other business on the planet. So you manage the clueless ones and fire the useless ones, and encourage the good ones. And occasionally the manager does a good job, like in this case. And I'll be back to that club, because 3 times out of 4 the dancers and management seem to do a good job.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Are these girls never called to stage? You can't tip them on stage and ask them to come over?"
Of course, but that's not the point. We all have choices. There are clubs where some (or many) of the dancers are nice, and pay attention to the customers. This club was all about BS'ing with regulars. Do I want to work at tracking down a dancer? No. Most guys don't. And if I can go to a different club that has some more attentive dancers, why should I go to a regulars hangout where I have to wait an hour for a dancer to rotate on stage just to get a dance?
The point is that regulars who lock dancers down for a long time are doing a disservice to the club and the other customers. Many times I've walked out of a club because it was too much work trying to track down some dancers. And sometimes I've decided not to return, like I did yesterday.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Some times the dancers are avoiding us on purpose. How do I know? I've been used as their "shield" to protect them from having to talk with other customers several times."
Excellent. And as a club owner that's just the type of dancer I want to work at my club.
Geezus, you guys are too much.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"As others said, it's best you go during a less busy time."
Uh, no. I generally go during dayshift when it's very NOT busy. It has nothing to do with it.
Just yesterday I went to a club that is pretty much a regulars hangout. The girls spend their time BS'ing with regulars. Don't circulate, or ask for dances, and don't make money. Unless the regulars are slipping them money for just talking, because I never see them going for laps.
Now, at the end of my visit I decided I'm not coming back. I like the club, some of the dancers are hot, but I'm just not interested in chasing down dancers who'd rather socialize with regulars than make money. They lost a customer.
Clearly, it's obvious the girls prefer socializing, not working. But that's not the point. Is it better for the club that I and other non-regulars won't be coming back? Probably not. It's probably better if they could keep me AND the regulars as customers. If ONE GIRL had broken away from their regular and been nice, she could have made some money, and I'd probably come back in the future.
I agree, the "whole thing regulates itself". And that could mean it regulates itself into the ground if management doesn't care about losing customers.
discussion comment
12 years ago
If I had a dollar for every time I went into a strip club, ready and willing to get some lap dances from a hot stripper, but I had to sit around and wait and wait and wait while the 1, 2 or 3 hot dancers I wanted a dance from sat around BS'ing with regulars, I'd be freakin' rich. They aren't getting dances, or VIP's, or anything other than just talking. For sometimes an hour or more at a time. Yeah, sometimes they get a VIP or some dances, but there's a whole lot of nothing going on most of the time. Believe me, I know, I'm sitting there hoping at least ONE of them will free themselves up.
It happens just about every time I go into a club, with at least one, or usually more dancers.
Now, let's put some real numbers to it. Most guys, like me, want her for a few dances. Maybe 3, maybe 5, maybe more. Should take, at most, 10 or 15 minutes of her precious time. At clubs I go to, that's between $30 to $100 for 15 minutes or less. Now if she's sitting BS'ing with a regular, she's getting nothing. Maybe he'll buy a VIP later on. Who knows.
Now, you guys are telling anyone who wants your ATF to go find someone else, but YOU want her all for yourself. Are you freakin' kidding me? Why don't YOU find some other dancers? Why not try two or three ATF's if it's so important to you to have a freakin' ATF, spread the wealth. Spend 20 or 30 minutes with each, so she can go to some other customers? Is it that important to you that you have to lock down ONE freakin' girl all night?
It's the WalMart business model. You charge less, but make up for it in volume. I'm merely suggesting that a strip club can work just as well, maybe better, on a volume basis. We all know some really good strippers who work that way, and are always busy getting laps. It works.
And at some point, the "ATF" model will fail. Because when regular customers come in, can't get a stripper's attention because she's locked down, they'll get frustrated and leave. And may not come back. Why? Because some douchebag customer ONLY wants ONE girl, and that girl wants the easy way out. And when her regular is gone, the club may have lost a whole bunch of regular customers in the process. Good business sense? No.
Good business sense is to limit the time the regulars have, and give the rest of the customers a chance, and don't risk losing 10 customers to save one.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Look, I know that you regulars DESPERATELY want to believe that you are the saviors of all the girls and all the clubs, and without you the whole strip club system would come crashing to the ground.
But that's just nonsense. You WANT to believe that she'll make more money with you than with the 10 other guys who are waiting for her, because it makes your ego feel better.
But you have no proof whatsoever that it's true. And it defies logic.
If a dancer spends an hour with you, is she making more than she could have by circulating to the other customers? Well, think about it. If she's your ATF, then she's probably pretty hot. And the other customers would probably consider her hot. Which means she's probably in demand. So how many lap dances or VIP's could she get in an hour if she wasn't with you?
Are you honestly paying her more in that hour than she could have gotten by going with other customers? Or, more likely, is it just easier for her and requires her to do less work, and in fact she's making less? We'll never know, but in any case it's not a done deal that she's doing better with you.
IMO, it's nothing more than it's easier for her, and as we know lots of strippers would rather sit on their ass and BS for their shift than work. And it's great for you because you feel like she actually likes you.
But don't try to convince the world that it's something honorable, and economically the best for the stripper.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Will NEVER fly as then the older stripper is giving away her advantage!"
So, do you not even think before you post stuff? Are you actually telling me there's no way to find an ex-stripper, or a stripper from another club, who will gladly train some girls for a couple hundred bucks or whatever?
Geezus, I wonder about some of you guys.
discussion comment
12 years ago
" If she knows I'm coming in she can watch for me and try not to get tied down with someone else."
Good point. Let me ammend my list...
9. Bouncers are instructed to refuse admission to anyone who has a history of locking down a dancer for more than 1/2 hour at a time. In that way, it's the bouncer's fault, not the dancer's. If you want to enter this club, you need to respect the other customers. Kind of like clubs with a dress code, although this code is about respecting other customers. If you're gonna be a douchebag, don't bother coming.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Regarding lighting up VIP, I disagree. Some of prefer the Braille method of learning every inch of a dancer's body!"
And that's what I just can't comprehend. Some guys actually seem to prefer not seeing the dancer? Boggles my mind.
Girls are hot. I like to look at them. I like to see their faces, especially when they're making "fuck face" at me while they're giving dances. The hair cascading over their faces, their big eyelashes, the glitter, the lipstick. Their nipples poking thru the black fishnet. The tiny thong barely covering their pussy.
Damn, for the life of me I cannot even comprehend someone preferring to see nothing but a silhouette or just a dark apparition.
Unless she's really ugly or something, in which case I wouldn't be getting a dance from her in the first place...
discussion comment
12 years ago
gsv, you're a regular. I hate regulars. They ruin the experience for everyone else. And you don't care about that. Which is another reason I hate regulars. They are arrogant and don't give a crap about anyone else. In SoCal, at least in the clubs I go to, cellphones and texting is a HUGE problem. Whether they're texting their regulars or just goofing around, it's wrong.
As far as going on stage, personally, like I say, I don't care about girls dancing on stage. If they're circulating like they should, there's no need for stage dancing. I'd rather have girls circulating and an empty stage.
As far as lighting in the lap area, if you think bouncers don't know what's going on you're dreaming. Dancers know what the others are doing, which means everyone knows. Lighting makes no difference.
And regarding older strippers, pay some stripper from another club or some ex-stripper to teach a class. Come on, use your head. The problem is most club managers are freakin' morons and can't use their heads.
discussion comment
12 years ago
WHAT !!??? Five days a week, every week of the year? And you're complaining? And now you're slacking off to a few times a month? WTF?? Cry me a river, dude.
This entire nation is run by regular guys, who bust their asses "five days a week, every week of the year", at a job they'd just as soon quit. Welders, bricklayers, steel workers. But they hang in there. They man up, and tough it out. Because people are counting on them.
Man up, dude !! AND GET BACK TO WORK !!! People are counting on you !!!
discussion comment
12 years ago
Hey, guys, here's a thought...
Instead of polluting every freakin' thread here with moronic tit-for-tat comments to each other, why not do it via private message? Just set the guys you hate the most up as your PM buddies, and rip each other a new a-hole anytime you want, without getting everyone else involved.
Does that work for you?
discussion comment
12 years ago
Do what you want to do. Don't worry about what people might think, or you'll end up sitting in your hotel room 24 hours a day curled up in a corner. And if you want to make all the strippers think "wow, this guy is awesome", don't bother. It won't happen. They probably assume most of the customers are lame anyway, so at best you might be seen as less lame than the other guy.
If it was me, and the club had hot girls and high mileage, I'd stock up on Cialis and go in there whenever I damn well pleased.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Okay, maybe this differences here are regional. Maybe some guys go to clubs where the dancers try hard to make sure you DON'T cum during a lap dance. In which case, yeah, coming during a LD can only be accomplished by a 14year old boy who's never been close to a hot girl before.
That's NOT what I'm talking about.
I'm also not talking about inserting your dick into a dancer, either thru BJ or FS. Because everyone here knows what that is, it's very clear, no clarification needed.
What I'm talking about is lap dances, which, as I described in the other thread on Mileage, vary from air dances to dances where the dancer is doing everything she can (other than insertion) to make you cum.
Again, keep in mind the whole purpose of these discussions is to clarify what we mean when we describe to others our strip club trips. If we don't discuss with others, you can call it whatever you want. But if you do, you should describe it in a way that provides some useful information.
And whether you personally cum during a lap dance is totally irrelevant. What matters is what the DANCER does to you, and allows you to do to her. That's what varies, and that's what's important to describe when you're describing lap dances.
The fact is this:
Some dancers, in some clubs around the world, try to make you cum during a lap dance OTHER than insertion. It happens. A lot.
How do they do it? Well, here's some examples:
Hand jobs over the shorts
Hand jobs inside the shorts (skin to skin)
Hand jobs inside the shorts with lotion
Butt jobs over the shorts (she grinds her butt into your dick)
Butt jobs nude (skin to skin contact between her butt and your dick)
Butt jobs with lotion
Titty fuck over the shorts
Titty fuck nude (skin to skin contact between her butt and your dick)
Titty fuck with lotion
Combinations of the above, which is usually the case
And THAT is how guys like me, and others, cum during lap dances. If a hot girl, trying really hard using one or more of those methods, can't make you cum, then that's fine, but it's all part of the lap dance experience for many, many guys around the world.
Call it what you want, call it sex, call it anything, but none of that matters. What matters is that everyone who is going to describe a lap dance experience to someone else should at least use a common language so that the discussion is meaningful.
By the way, on the topic of 14 year old boys who cum in their pants just because a hot girl winked at them, there's a hilarious video from a few years back (I think it was Saturday Night Live or something) called "I Jizzed in my Pants". Search for it, it's hilarious.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"you will find that your local strip club girls will give far more entertainment for the dollar"
So have you actually tried a lap dance with her? Based on experience with other porn stars in clubs, yeah, you're probably right. But who knows, maybe she's different.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"But coming in your pants without sex is juvenile"
Bummer. I wonder if there's any chance I'll ever be a real man, a true macho man, like Pablo Antonio.
Or maybe it will just have to remain a dream....
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Cumming in your pants is for 14 year old boys who have never had a woman"
Hmmm...now that presents a bit of a problem for me. I'm clearly not a 14 year old boy, and I've had quite a few women. But on the other hand I LOVE getting high mileage lap dances where the dancers give me a HJ or whatever to make me cum.
So should I stop doing that?
discussion comment
12 years ago
And personally, I tend to prefer somewhat older women, as opposed to the cute little 18 year old.
My sixth sense, based on what little I've read about her, tells me that Amber is an absolutely awesome lady, and probably far more skilled and caring than your average stripper.
And and based on more recent photos, her body and face are still smokin' hot. And just the fact that THE Amber Lynn would nestle her tight little butt in my crotch while I reach around and wrap my hands on those bit hard breast is reason enough to make me splooge my pants within 30 seconds.
discussion comment
12 years ago
Oh, and my favorite is this webcam chick named Venera or something like that with insanely big tits, very long blonde hair, and she wears these kinda secretary glasses. The perfect titty fucking tits. If she was in a strip club I'd freakin live there.
discussion comment
12 years ago
"Webcams? No thanks. There are different levels of PL's and I have my standards!"
Yeah, I can see your point. And to some extent I feel the same way. But not in a derogatory way, more of a preference way.
Personally, I think it's wrong to knock guys for how they get off. Yeah, I know I bash you guys who pay strippers to like you, and I go way overboard, but when push comes to shove, we're guys. And guys NEED sex. And we desperately want sex with a hot girl. That's one of the most important things in our lives. That's how we were made. All of us. Not our fault, it's just the way we are. And we all need to respect that, and work together to help each other in that quest.
So if some guys get off by jacking off to webcams, and others get off by having hot strippers make them cum in their pants, and others get off by doing FS with their ATF in a private booth or OTC, then more power to every freakin' one of us.
And I'll freely admit, some of those webcam girls are absolutely incredible, and more than once I've jacked off to webcam videos. The free ones, not the ones you have to actually pay for. By the way, there's some webcam footage of this chick named Nyluh who is a freakin' 10, and I've jacked off to her numerous times. And there's this blonde German chick with fuckin' massive hooters who talks during the vids some really sexy shit in German, and she wears these awesome vinyl and leather outfits. Damn she's hot.
But that's not the point...
What's really important is this: while we may poke each other back and forth here a lot, the bottom line is "bro's before ho's".
discussion comment
12 years ago
Wait just a minute, Art. What are you implying here? Are you saying that before you INVEST, you should INVESTIGATE?
I thought it was kinda like the way women pick sports teams they like. They choose the ones with the prettiest colors on their uniforms.
(Okay, that was a joke...relax)