How to Improve Strip Clubs

1. Lots of dancers use their phones to communicate with regulars. I could see it being bad if they're just sitting there texting the whole time, but I don't see that happening much where I frequent anyway. Confiscating the phones isn't going to go over too well IMO.

2. Why? What if they're able to find a guy to get a dance with from their immediate surrounding when they get off stage?

3. The best way to counter this is announcing dancers to go on stage and having a penalty for being late to stage (unless you're with a customer).

4. In some Manhattan clubs I think some girls hate being on stage and hardly even need it to do their business. If it was optional, some girls probably wouldn't even go on stage at all. I like the current convention of just periodically calling girls.

5. Improved lighting in the lap dance area also makes it easier for bouncers to see extras happening, or at least mileage above what is allowed. I'm fine with the way it is at most clubs.

6. Agree

7. Do you really think older strippers are going to give away the secrets that give them their business? If the younger ones who are in many cases better looking start giving just as good dances, the older strippers won't have much of a selling point anymore.

8. Perks of being a regular. Some dudes will also tip girls just to sit with them and that could be worth their while. This is just the way it is.

gsv, you're a regular. I hate regulars. They ruin the experience for everyone else. And you don't care about that. Which is another reason I hate regulars. They are arrogant and don't give a crap about anyone else. In SoCal, at least in the clubs I go to, cellphones and texting is a HUGE problem. Whether they're texting their regulars or just goofing around, it's wrong.

As far as going on stage, personally, like I say, I don't care about girls dancing on stage. If they're circulating like they should, there's no need for stage dancing. I'd rather have girls circulating and an empty stage.

As far as lighting in the lap area, if you think bouncers don't know what's going on you're dreaming. Dancers know what the others are doing, which means everyone knows. Lighting makes no difference.

And regarding older strippers, pay some stripper from another club or some ex-stripper to teach a class. Come on, use your head. The problem is most club managers are freakin' morons and can't use their heads.

I don't mind phones unless a dancer is looking at while talking to me. I find it useful to be able to text my faves to let them know I'm in the club and where I'm sitting.

Regarding lighting up VIP, I disagree. Some of prefer the Braille method of learning every inch of a dancer's body!

As for regulars and long waits, I've been on both sides of that equation. It is annoying when a dancer sits with the same fuckoe for HOURS without even dancing, but they are gonna go where the money is. If she can sit in some guy's lap all day and get paid for chatting, why should she be expected to piss him off by leaving just to avoid pissing you off for waiting? Plus, when I do finally get her in my lap I want to keep her with me until I decide to let her move on. Of course this is another reason I don't mind dancer cell phones. If she knows I'm coming in she can watch for me and try not to get tied down with someone else.

All women under 40 are cell phone addicts. They talk on the phone all the time just to feel connected and important. I terminated a date when I found out the woman in my car was talking on the phone while I was talking to her. She had the Bluetooth in her ear, hidden by her long hair. No wonder her responses during our conversation didn't connect with what I was talking about. I turned around and took her back to her place and said good-bye.

"Regarding lighting up VIP, I disagree. Some of prefer the Braille method of learning every inch of a dancer's body!"

And that's what I just can't comprehend. Some guys actually seem to prefer not seeing the dancer? Boggles my mind.

Girls are hot. I like to look at them. I like to see their faces, especially when they're making "fuck face" at me while they're giving dances. The hair cascading over their faces, their big eyelashes, the glitter, the lipstick. Their nipples poking thru the black fishnet. The tiny thong barely covering their pussy.

Damn, for the life of me I cannot even comprehend someone preferring to see nothing but a silhouette or just a dark apparition.

Unless she's really ugly or something, in which case I wouldn't be getting a dance from her in the first place...

" If she knows I'm coming in she can watch for me and try not to get tied down with someone else."

Good point. Let me ammend my list...

1. Bouncers are instructed to refuse admission to anyone who has a history of locking down a dancer for more than 1/2 hour at a time. In that way, it's the bouncer's fault, not the dancer's. If you want to enter this club, you need to respect the other customers. Kind of like clubs with a dress code, although this code is about respecting other customers. If you're gonna be a douchebag, don't bother coming.

jerikson40 - You do NOt piss me off. You are just running your mouth but since actions speak louder than words, I will continue to piss you off. :)

1. Disagree I want to know if my ATF is in or she can contact me to let me know. Sometimes it's slow and they are bored and text me saying "can you come in".

2. 4 times an hour seems a little high maybe require 2x an hour.

3. I agree unless they are on like a lunch break/break.

4. Don't like this either, would create too much confusion and take away the spotlighting of each dancer.

5. Again disagree. Yes I want to see them but still be able to go the "extra" mile! Most clubs I've been too are at a good lighting level IMO.

6. I've NEVER had this but I also usually don't frequent SC's that serve alchohol.

7. Will NEVER fly as then the older stripper is giving away her advantage!

8. Your right I do disagree with you on this. Come again another day if you HAVE to have THAT girl. Or just pick another yo!

9. This would devastate club economy.

Good luck trying these changes, you'd close the joint in a month if you tried most of these.

"Will NEVER fly as then the older stripper is giving away her advantage!"

So, do you not even think before you post stuff? Are you actually telling me there's no way to find an ex-stripper, or a stripper from another club, who will gladly train some girls for a couple hundred bucks or whatever?

Geezus, I wonder about some of you guys.

I'm pissed off at 8! The power of the buck is sacred! Shouldn't be limits like this on it.

Look, I know that you regulars DESPERATELY want to believe that you are the saviors of all the girls and all the clubs, and without you the whole strip club system would come crashing to the ground.

But that's just nonsense. You WANT to believe that she'll make more money with you than with the 10 other guys who are waiting for her, because it makes your ego feel better.

But you have no proof whatsoever that it's true. And it defies logic.

If a dancer spends an hour with you, is she making more than she could have by circulating to the other customers? Well, think about it. If she's your ATF, then she's probably pretty hot. And the other customers would probably consider her hot. Which means she's probably in demand. So how many lap dances or VIP's could she get in an hour if she wasn't with you?

Are you honestly paying her more in that hour than she could have gotten by going with other customers? Or, more likely, is it just easier for her and requires her to do less work, and in fact she's making less? We'll never know, but in any case it's not a done deal that she's doing better with you.

IMO, it's nothing more than it's easier for her, and as we know lots of strippers would rather sit on their ass and BS for their shift than work. And it's great for you because you feel like she actually likes you.

But don't try to convince the world that it's something honorable, and economically the best for the stripper.

Some of the things you said I strongly agree with, others, I don't experience as much as you have:

I strongly agree with number 2 and 3. I don't like when dancers camp out in dressing room. I also don't like when some dancers don't circulate the room and ask for dances. And it more often than not, it's the hot one's (or the one's you WANT to get a dance from)who do that. The other point you made, that I strongly agree with, is number 6. I hate when waitresses are constantly asking you to buy the dancer you're sitting with a drink. It's annoying. But I will admit I have done it a few times for my favorites.

The other points you made I don't agree or disagree with, I'm neutral. Do I see dancers on their phones when I'm at the club? Yes. But, it's not to the point where they're CONSTANTLY on them. 4 and 5 I don't care that much about either way. What you described in number 7 is something I've experienced once before- great when that happens.

As far as one customer hogging a dancer for hours, I really dislike that too, but there's not much we can do about it man.

Jerikson - on your no.7 I think the way you wrote it suggests that it would be older strippers already working at the club who would tutor the newbies. I'll admit that is how I read it. If you had put in something about an ex-stripper doing the teaching I think you might have had a totally different reaction from the posters on that thought. If it is an ex-stripper great! But I would agree that someone who is already working would not want to do that.

@jerkison40 Yeah even if you get a former dancer to teach them who's to say they are going to listen? And dancers are constantly coming and going. Are they going to have weekly classes?

To quote yourself " do you not even think before you post stuff?"

Funny that you call me a regular. I'm not. At some clubs I've been there really frequently, but lately not so much. And I've had hour-long conversations with dancers at clubs that I've no regularity at (i.e. they never met me before).

At the end of the day, it is up to the dancer who she'd like to spend her time with. They are, in most cases, independent contractors. If they do not want to dance for a guy, they might not be able to outright say no, but they can find ways to avoid it.

Sorry that clubs don't work the way you want to. But if they really did change to work the way describe, I don't think the dancers would like it and it's possible they would make less money by pissing off their regulars. Having to bounce from guy to guy is a nuisance and in some cases a risk for the girls. It's the same way that escorts like to make a small list of regular clients rather than a large list of infrequent clients.

And your idea about the bouncers kicking out people who spend more than 30 minutes with a girl? You clearly don't know anything about the economics of a strip club then. Guys who spend a lot of time sitting with girls, are usually making the club rich by buying drinks. The club likes these guys, generally speaking.

Man I love this site.

By the way, learn a thing or two about business.

Just to throw some simple figures out there: If a dancer can make $800 in a night by spending time with 5 regulars, I think some would prefer that to serving like 10-20 infrequent customers for $1000. If they didn't prefer just sticking with the regulars, you wouldn't see them doing it.

in nearly ANY business, a regular customer is going to get treated better - it's just natural. It's customer retention at the end of the day.

Like most of the other replies, I gotta disagree with your #8 & #9 points. How do you know how much money each of those 10 guys waiting for a particular girl are going to spend on her? gsv phrased it perfectly with his example. If the money difference between 5 regulars and 10-20 infrequent non-regulars is small, then the dancer will probably pick the regulars almost every time. I've spoken with lots of dancers in several clubs who complain about customers that jerk them around and waste their time making the dancer think he'll spend money on her, and plenty of times it ends up with the guy pushing for OTC without spending anything on her in the club. Or they'll complain about customers that waste their time and end up getting one or two lap dances, at most. None of these two types of time wasting customers I just described are ever regulars. And we're supposed to believe that its better for the dancer to (possibly) deal with 10-50 guys like that a night instead of 1-5 regulars who will spend $200-500+ on her per visit? Now of course I know there are lots of infrequent customers who are willing to spend lots of money on girls, but if a dancer gets burned one too many times by these time wasting customers, well that will probably make her want to stay with her regulars even more. Do you usually visit clubs on friday or saturday nights? Maybe that's why you're always waiting for the more popular girls? It might be worth it to make some trips during weeknights or during the afternoon shift?

If I had a dollar for every time I went into a strip club, ready and willing to get some lap dances from a hot stripper, but I had to sit around and wait and wait and wait while the 1, 2 or 3 hot dancers I wanted a dance from sat around BS'ing with regulars, I'd be freakin' rich. They aren't getting dances, or VIP's, or anything other than just talking. For sometimes an hour or more at a time. Yeah, sometimes they get a VIP or some dances, but there's a whole lot of nothing going on most of the time. Believe me, I know, I'm sitting there hoping at least ONE of them will free themselves up.

It happens just about every time I go into a club, with at least one, or usually more dancers.

Now, let's put some real numbers to it. Most guys, like me, want her for a few dances. Maybe 3, maybe 5, maybe more. Should take, at most, 10 or 15 minutes of her precious time. At clubs I go to, that's between $30 to $100 for 15 minutes or less. Now if she's sitting BS'ing with a regular, she's getting nothing. Maybe he'll buy a VIP later on. Who knows.

Now, you guys are telling anyone who wants your ATF to go find someone else, but YOU want her all for yourself. Are you freakin' kidding me? Why don't YOU find some other dancers? Why not try two or three ATF's if it's so important to you to have a freakin' ATF, spread the wealth. Spend 20 or 30 minutes with each, so she can go to some other customers? Is it that important to you that you have to lock down ONE freakin' girl all night?

It's the WalMart business model. You charge less, but make up for it in volume. I'm merely suggesting that a strip club can work just as well, maybe better, on a volume basis. We all know some really good strippers who work that way, and are always busy getting laps. It works.

And at some point, the "ATF" model will fail. Because when regular customers come in, can't get a stripper's attention because she's locked down, they'll get frustrated and leave. And may not come back. Why? Because some douchebag customer ONLY wants ONE girl, and that girl wants the easy way out. And when her regular is gone, the club may have lost a whole bunch of regular customers in the process. Good business sense? No.

Good business sense is to limit the time the regulars have, and give the rest of the customers a chance, and don't risk losing 10 customers to save one.

Dancers can choose whatever style of working they want. If they want to just give as many dances as possible, that's great for them. But not all of them prefer that.

Maybe this is a shocker to you, but perhaps some of the dancers actually enjoy the company of some of their regulars. Or better phrased, they prefer it to spending time with some other guys that may be in the club. It's not as if the regular keeps telling the girl, please stay with me and don't walk around the club looking for other customers. I'd venture to say that in most cases the girl is staying there herself. That's her choice, why get so upset about it? How do you know these guys aren't tipping her really well in VIP to warrant the extra time spent outside?

You have to trust that the girl knows enough to make a good decision to stick with a guy or not; and if she makes a poor decision, that's her fault - and she'll learn for the future. The whole thing regulates itself. I'm sure there will be cases where an infrequent customer is unable to get a girl's attention, but that's just the way it works sometimes. As others said, it's best you go during a less busy time.

Also, as far as spreading the wealth. Not all guys go to strip clubs just because they want a dance from some hot stripper. Obviously that's a large part of it, but there's more to it. Some are seeking conversation and companionship, it's not the best place for that, but there's a lot of money to be had for dancers that can cater to this type of client. This type of client is also likely to stick with one girl who he feels he has established a better connection with. Yes, they're strippers, and frankly it's stupid to get too attached, but guys do it anyway and it's part of how the system works.

I've been called by strippers and asked to meet them at the club and hang out with them several times so that they could chat with me all night and not talk with any of the other customers. They only wanted to dance on stage, they didn't want to do any rooms. I was drinking water too, not buying any drinks. I did tip every dancer on stage, but that was all I spent.

Some times the dancers are avoiding us on purpose. How do I know? I've been used as their "shield" to protect them from having to talk with other customers several times.

"As others said, it's best you go during a less busy time."

Uh, no. I generally go during dayshift when it's very NOT busy. It has nothing to do with it.

Just yesterday I went to a club that is pretty much a regulars hangout. The girls spend their time BS'ing with regulars. Don't circulate, or ask for dances, and don't make money. Unless the regulars are slipping them money for just talking, because I never see them going for laps.

Now, at the end of my visit I decided I'm not coming back. I like the club, some of the dancers are hot, but I'm just not interested in chasing down dancers who'd rather socialize with regulars than make money. They lost a customer.

Clearly, it's obvious the girls prefer socializing, not working. But that's not the point. Is it better for the club that I and other non-regulars won't be coming back? Probably not. It's probably better if they could keep me AND the regulars as customers. If ONE GIRL had broken away from their regular and been nice, she could have made some money, and I'd probably come back in the future.

I agree, the "whole thing regulates itself". And that could mean it regulates itself into the ground if management doesn't care about losing customers.

"Some times the dancers are avoiding us on purpose. How do I know? I've been used as their "shield" to protect them from having to talk with other customers several times."

Excellent. And as a club owner that's just the type of dancer I want to work at my club.

Geezus, you guys are too much.

It sounds like what you have there is probably a more extreme case. But you keep assuming that they're not making money by sitting with their regulars. You don't know that for sure at all. They could be slipping $ over, or they could also just be tipping really heavily when they do get dances/VIP, justifying the extra time spent by the girl.

Are these girls never called to stage? You can't tip them on stage and ask them to come over?

"Are these girls never called to stage? You can't tip them on stage and ask them to come over?"

Of course, but that's not the point. We all have choices. There are clubs where some (or many) of the dancers are nice, and pay attention to the customers. This club was all about BS'ing with regulars. Do I want to work at tracking down a dancer? No. Most guys don't. And if I can go to a different club that has some more attentive dancers, why should I go to a regulars hangout where I have to wait an hour for a dancer to rotate on stage just to get a dance?

The point is that regulars who lock dancers down for a long time are doing a disservice to the club and the other customers. Many times I've walked out of a club because it was too much work trying to track down some dancers. And sometimes I've decided not to return, like I did yesterday.

How about girls who talk to guys who aren't going to pay at all? Happened to me at the Men's Club in Reno. The two girls I was interested in just hung out with guys or like Hal an hour or more who then just bought single or two dances. Then they disappeared into the dressing room. Meanwhile I might have dropped $500 on a VIP room.

What can you do though? If they are paying their rent it's up to them how to manage their time.

I just said "screw it" and drove over I the mustang ranch, and scored a better looking girl anyway (at twice the price, but, hey...)

Also in Salt Lake City I had the problem of girls hanging out too much in the dressing room. I just grabbed them when they went out to the bar.

What you can always do, and I have done before I ask a waitress or other dancer or other club employer to grab them out of the dressing room for you.

"What can you do though?"

What you can do is hire a freakin' manager who knows how to manage. Someone who tells the girls "look, while you're sitting on your ass socializing I've got customers getting pissed and walking out the door, which means I'm losing money. If you don't want to work, then don't come here any more". Someone who can keep the regulars happy and also treat the non-regulars with a little respect.

I was at a club a couple weeks ago, it was pretty dead, some girls socializing with regulars, nobody really making the rounds. The manager and DJ and some girls were BS'ing and laughing over near the DJ booth. I was getting bored, thinking about bailing, and the manager notices and tells a couple girls to go over and talk to me. So one girl comes over and tells me the manager told her to come over and talk to me. Apparently it never occurred to her to, like, talk to the customers.

Yeah, I think that lots of strippers are clueless like that. And others are just lazy. And others are just the opposite, and work hard. Just like employees in any other business on the planet. So you manage the clueless ones and fire the useless ones, and encourage the good ones. And occasionally the manager does a good job, like in this case. And I'll be back to that club, because 3 times out of 4 the dancers and management seem to do a good job.

Tits ass and more tits

Some strippers want to earn their money dancing on stage, not doing dances. I'm friends with a few strippers who are like that and I've been called and asked to meet them and hang out with them when they weren't on stage so that they didn't get asked to do any dances by other customers. I still pay the cover charge and I still tip the dancers on stage and the dancers still pay their house fee. Why should the club owner not want those dancers working? They still earn money for the club because they're pretty and guys come in to watch them on stage.

Other strippers are the opposite. They want to do nothing but dances and they do everything they can to avoid going on stage. The club owners also earn money from them even though they only go on stage once or twice a night at the most.

Like I said before, I don't give a fuck if a girl goes up on stage. It's kinda nice to see who they are and if they're hot, but you can see that better if they sit down with you.

However, if a girl is only there to go on stage, then management needs to realize that there are some guys who are going to want lap dances with her, and if she doesn't do dances they might get pissed. The more girls like that, the worse for the club. If I went into a club and a bunch of girls said "oh, yeah, sorry, I only dance on stage" I'd be outta there in a heartbeat. As with any business, the more flexible the employees, the better it is for the business.

And when businesses start catering to the whims of the employees, like many of you guys seem to be suggesting, it could be very bad for business. "Oh, I only dance on stage, and I only spend time with regulars who give me at least $500 an hour, and I only work on alternate Fridays between 5pm and 8pm, and..."

That kind of bullshit isn't good for business, but you guys seem to think it's somehow important.

Jerikson -- As a customer you have to speak up for what you want to management. If you aren't happy with the service provided, bring your complaints to the management. If that doesn't bring you satisfaction, do as you did and not come back. But if you walk out without saying anything, things don't have a chance to change. Don't know if you have done this. Tell a manager you would like some time with the dancer (point out the table) and say she has just been sitting there with the customer not doing anything. See what they say, if they don't do anything, walk out. Requires work on your part, but unfortunately the SC model is not one that changes easily. Maybe you are the one who pushes it in a different direction.

I have been on your end where a girl I wanted dances from was either locked up with a customer or in the back. I thought man she is losing out on money. But what I came to realize is if she doesn't want my money, I'll find someone else who does. A dancer who doesn't want to dance for me is probably not going to give me a dance that makes me want to keep her around. So that dancer you pull away from the regular will give you an air dance so you will say no more and she can go back to her regular. I understand your frustration, I am far from a regular. I only go clubbing once maybe twice a month and I can't worry about those girls who are like that. I want to enjoy my time and find someone who I find attractive who wants my money and is willing to work to give me a good experience.

@rh48hr is right. I've gotten far better dances from the strippers who approach me than the ones who I approach without exception. I don't chase strippers down and ask them for dances any more unless it's someone who asked me for a dance on a previous visit. Why? Because the ones who ask me for dances give me much better dances than the ones who I ask for dances.

I think another thing management could do is crack down harder on ROBs. Right now over counting seems over tolerated. Maybe send in quality control guy disguised as PLs to see which girls will rip off customers they think they can (hey, there's a job I wouldn't mind - club managers reading this PM me offline).

1. Confiscate all cellphones from every dancer when they start their shift.

Then how will she be able to text me while she is on shift to arrange OTC for the evening?

1. Require every dancer to circulate around the club AT LEAST 4 times every hour.

BS. Clubs operate on the 90-10 rule, meaning that 10% of the customers do 90% of the spending on a given night. Why should she have to leave guys who are paying her well just so that one and done LD seekers can have a chance at her? Why should my time with her be interrupted because some guy with two twenties in his pocket wants to grab a couple of dances?

1. Dancers can't sit in the dressing room just BS'ing. Either they're getting ready, or they're out on the floor.

I am a little bit more on board with this one.

1. Dancers go up on stage and dance whenever they have free time.

This one is crap. What constitutes free time? What if she is scoping out the place or trying to make a connection with potential customers?

1. Improve lighting in the lap dance areas so you can actually SEE the dancer.

If they did that, how would we hide what she is doing with her hand? ;)

1. Instead of badgering customers, make the strippers get off their asses and earn the money, rather than looking for handouts (see items 1-4).

Dude, this sit and drink time is an important component for many a seasoned hound. OTC and other items are often negotiated during these times.

1. Get some of the best (usually older) strippers to teach the others how to be good strippers.

There are a lot of other things that I would rather they be good at. ;)

1. Dancers are not allowed to spend more than, say, 1/2 hour with any one customer (see item 2). That is one of the most frustrating aspects of many strip club visits.

I often sit with my favorite dancers for hours at a time. If you want her to deal with you instead, then outspend me. Otherwise sit with the other low rollers and wait until I'm done. Strip clubs are not charities, but rather are economic jungles where the bigger animals eat before the smaller ones do. If you want to improve your odds, you might want to pick slower times of day.

This conversation has gotten way off topic....as for the improved lighting in VIP and lap dance area? Are you kidding me??? How about less lighting!

j40- I don't have any heartburn with #1 & #5. I'm with you on #6. As for the other items........................

#2. As not every eatery is an assembly line McDonalds, or every store a high volume Walmart, so goes it with stripclubs. There have been a good number of reviewers complain about a too high hustle factor when they want some chill space. The idea of having 6 dancers walk around 4x hour to the same 6 guys nursing their sodas is rather comical.

#3. Join 2001live.com for dressing room feed. A few dancers take an hour or more just to get ready, lol.

#4. Try this one on the pink site. I'll bring plenty of popcorn. The flipside to this is dancers on stage miss out on floor oppurtunities for LD/CR sales. To position oneself requires some ammount of "strategic lounging" in the floor, or bar area.

#7. Dancing isn't rocket science, or learning a new car model inside out so you can better sell to prospect. Or learning new office computer operating systems. Or getting a realtor license. Couple that with the high turnover rate in strippers- club management at typical club isn't going to buy into that. Ironically (check it out on you tube) a veteran 30-something stripper runs a stripper boot camp (for a fee). The focus of the training sessions/videos probably don't correspond to many tusclers focus of interest.

#8) Stripclubs are largely a free market, money driven system. I have "felt your pain" on several occasions here. But, really now, if you have your heart set on a red jet ski for 1/2 hr. rental, and some guy a already riding it has it booked for 2 hrs, is JS place going to kick the guy off it just to accomodate you ?

@jerkison40: Its very interesting how different members who disagree with each other, insult each other, and hate on each other pretty much all stand together to tell you they disagree with you and why they think you're wrong. I can see where you're coming from and I don't think you're completely wrong on this. I guess you're just a victim of circumstance. Who knows, maybe if clubs followed your suggestions the dancers and clubs would make more money. Maybe your way really is the 'best' way. But if you think about it, how often do people, institutions, and society at large always choose what's 'best' for them? On more than a few visits some dancers told me they were taking it a bit easy because they already hit their goal for the night. After getting dances with me, my previous 2 ATFs would go around trying to sell LDs or VIPs, and they would only come back to me if no one wanted dances from them, after dancing for other customers, or if it was a really slow night. On several occasions when I came to see my previous ATF, the first thing she'd say to me was "Come on dance with me, you'll be first LD/VIP for tonight.", and often times there were a lot of guys in the club. But she would tell me, "Yeah, but they're not spending any money." In contrast to that, there were plenty of times that same ATF would make me wait so she could try to get LDs/VIPs from the new/infrequent customers. From the regular's point of view, how would you like it if one or several new/infrequent customers wasted 15-30 minutes of an ATF's time only to get 1 or 2 LDs? From a dancer's point of view, having lots of those kind of customers waste your time would probably make you want to spend less time with new/infrequent customers as opposed to regulars.

It really just comes down to the nature of the business. These strippers aren't machines, they are human beings (okay, yeah, lying dirty whores whatever people here like to call them - but they ARE still human). You can't expect everything to be perfectly optimized economically all the time, and for them to be working 100% of their potential all the time. If they can make decent money and spend most of their time relaxing with regulars, well they'll probably do that. And if having the girls do that at the club makes the club run well enough, that's fine too. You say that the club might lose a lot of money from people getting pissed off, that's fine, but it could be even worse if the regulars get pissed off about getting [much] less time with their girl and end up spending less on drinks or outright cutting their visits.

Strip clubs and strippers in general make good money from the random infrequent visitors too, but it's the regulars that add any degree of stability to the business.

WHY is this RECENT topic being REPEATED!! Hmm...??

1. No one is going to do that. I wouldnt. If the club wants its house fee and wants dancers to work there so it can keep its doors open, it wont confiscate cell phones. Dancers can always go to a different club. No dancers, no business.

2. A dancer who cares about her business and who is not busy giving dances will do this anyway.

3. Totally agree

4. Huh???

5. Okay

6. That'll never happen

7. Agreed

8. Dont agree, obviously

1. You won't be able to keep dancers on shift with that rule.

@Jerkison40. Stop ranting about failing to be a big enough spender, or an interesting enough guy that the girls would want to spend some time with you. If you don't like clubs that have a lot of "regulars", then don't go to them. Geezus dude, it's that simple.

The only suggestion you made in your OP that made any sense was the one about dancers not pushing drinks so hard. Aside from being incredibly self-serving, he rest of your ideas run against the natural (dis)order of a strip club would be difficult or impossible to implement. Most readers pointed that out clearly to you

Strip Clubs are not a normal business model. They know that your little head is doing the thinking, therefore their managerial and operational styles are not overly complicated.

To clarify my remarks in earlier post about suggestions #1 and #5- When I say that I have "no heartburn" with them, I mean that dancers' cellphone use, and lighting level in most clubs VIP dance areas don't bother me. I'm not agreeing with j40's suggestions on those points.

The BEST way to have a Club BE the way you want is to OWN it! Otherwise you have to accept the conditions and experience. If you don't want to accept the club, by all means take your $$$ elsewhere. NO club is going to meet everyone's every desire. Compromise is needed.

Jerikson, you sir sound like you need a girlfriend in your life. That or you need to spend more time with your wife because you are too sexually fustrated and sound like a child. Bet you if things went your way no doubt you do the same thing. Respect the ladies hustle. If she found a sucker who's willing to pay to hear her speak, then she did a good job. If a customer is smooth enough to keep a dancer to himself for a long period of time, respect his silver tongue and ask for pointers

Sigh. I guess I'll never figure out why a thread explodes like this. I'm not trying to split the difference but I will throw this out there: I used to frequent a SC and was a regular for a dancer. She had other regulars, of course. She did a great job of juggling guys if more than one showed up at a time. One day I watched and chuckled while she shuttled between us. You can talk all you want about lying, thieving whores and all, but she was very upfront. She told me exactly what she was doing, asked me to understand, and I told her that I understood how she had to make a living. She was running back and forth like a plate spinner. And some days I wasn't in the mood for it, so I left after waiting a short time and she waved as I walked out. But she would always make it up to me after I acted like I was still miffed. It is theater and everybody is playing their roles.

You guys can moan, and cry, and call me names, but here's the facts:

Most of what I'm suggesting is EXACTLY what most businesses on the planet do, and what they require of their employees. To deny that, and to suggest that strippers and strip clubs need to be treated differently, only means you have an irrational bias.

Most companies don't allow personal calls during work hours. That's a fact.

Most companies don't allow employees to sit on their asses and socialize all day. That's a fact.

Most managers tell employees to get to work if they're screwing off. That's a fact.

Most companies use older and/or more experienced employees to train mentor younger, less experienced employees. They also hire outside consultants to train. That's a fact.

Those items alone cover about 1/2 of my suggestions.

Now, since this is a group of mostly older guys who survive on the ATF concept, any suggestion to the contrary makes you guys get offended and pissed and start with the name calling. Totally childish and totally expected.

If you feel that strippers are special, and shouldn't have to act like other workers on the planet, and shouldn't have to follow rules that might help the business, then you're free to believe what you want.

Jerikson, don't get all pissy with us just because you are ignorant about strip club dynamics and economics.

First off, they are not employees. They pay the club to be there, not the other way around. This makes the dynamic very different than a classic employer/employee relationship.

Second though, your suggestions would probably hurt their income rather than help. I'll go slow now so that you understand this the second time: 10% - of - customers - do - 90% - of - the - spending - on - a - given - night. Now one may quibble about the numbers, but the point is that a small % of guys usually represent a large % of cash spent and the rest are just seat fillers and one off LD customers.

What this means is that the girls focus much of their energies on those guys who are going to spend the most money. Why in the world should a girl be forced to leave a guy who would spend a boat load of money in the club just because a couple of low rollers want single $20 dances? How does that make any sense?

And why in the world would a club want to take the cell phones away from girls who are using those phones to lure their better (meaning higher spending) customers into the club?

Net-net, when they blow you off, they are not necessarily "losing" the $40 that you saved up for a couple of LDs, but rather are focusing their efforts on landing bigger fish who will give them, and the club, a lot more money in CRs/VIPs/large drink tabs, etc.

Your proposed rules would hurt the dancers, the better customers and even some of the clubs. The only people who would benefit are the low rollers who come on here all the time bitching about the fact that they are ignored.

Understand now?

Okay Rick. Now that you said it more slowly, I'm starting to understand.

And your point is really quite brilliant. Basically, cater to a few customers, not a lot. Because you're guaranteed that those few guys will always spend hundreds of $$ every hour. And no group of non-regulars spends anywhere near that amount.

Wow. So you guys actually spend, what, $200 or $300 or $500 every hour that you're with your ATF? Really? Every time you're with her? Plus the rent money? Plus the gifts?

So how does that work? Like, you're talking to her, just socializing at the club, and every hour she stops, sticks out her hand and says, "Um, Rick baby..." at which time you reach into your wallet and pull out another $200?

If in fact you guys actually spend that kind of money on your ATF every single time, and that's the case with the majority of "regulars" who lock down ATF's, then yeah, maybe you're right.

But dude, that is so fucked up it's insane.

Rickdugun I take offense to that. just because I don't get VIP, don't want to buy a hoe err woman a drink and only spend $130 on LD (not including pre/entry fee) doesnt mean I'm nothing more than a seat filler.... I just am picky and stingy with what woman I want on my lap that's all lol

Y'know, this is really kind of fascinating. I'd like to take Rick's lesson and put some real numbers to it. Y'know, so that we REALLY start to understand, like Rick said, "strip club dynamics and economics".

So I propose we take a little survey...

For those guys who lock down ATF's when they're in the club, and spend hours socializing with them:

How much, on average, do you give your ATF per hour that she is with you in the club. Now don't forget to include ALL the money you give her, even if it's like rent money and gifts and stuff. Add up all the money you give her, and divide by the number of hours she sits with you in the club.

And then post your $$ per hour number for an ATF. But be honest guys, okay?

This should be good...

If she is an ATF it's because i see here for OTC. If I bump into her ITC might just talk for like 5 minutes then let her get back to work.

Had one CF who used to like to hang out and talk for a 0.5 hours or so then I would buy a couple hundred in LDs from her.

Still I have no objection if some whale want to book up a stripped just to hang and talk and do a few dances if he has $1k or something to blow. Like I say the power on the buck I regard a sacred, and don't like proposals that would interfere with that, especially in a strip club where the buck should be the most sacred of anywhere.

As for girls who are just hanging with non-paying customers, I agree it's annoying, but if they are paying their rent it's up to them how they get to that point.

Now Steffy, I know you were being a little sarcastic and trying to make a funny, but you have a really good point there that others have also made. And I think it deserves to be emphasized...

As I'm beginning to learn from you guys, strip clubs are NOT like the real world. In the real world, most people try to get MORE for LESS money. That's why there's WalMart and Costco and KMart and Home Depot and all the electronics importers and online retailers and all those places we all go to pay less and get more.

But, as you guys point out, strip clubs are totally different. In a strip club you're pretty much an a-hole if you try to get more for less. The goal in a strip club is to spend MORE.

Now, you might think it doesn't really make sense, right?

Well, you'd be wrong. The reason is, as Estefador implies, REAL men spend lots of money, and wimps don't. Anyone who knows anything realizes that the goal is to "make it rain" on them strippers. Whether you're a baller throwing a handful of singles onstage, or a rich white guy giving her $50 and $100 bills on the couches, it's all about being cool, and being a real man.

And it's also partly because REAL men pay girls to talk to them, and act like they like them. And the more you pay them, the cooler you are, and the more the girl likes you.

So, anyone gets the crazy idea you go into a strip club to have the most fun for the least amount of money, think again. That's what wimps do.

On the Pay-per-Hour question, why don't YOU go 1st jerikson40. Figuratively, put your money where your words are. Do you dare?

Just leave it alone everyone. Jerkison will never change his opinion cause he believes he's 100% right and can't even consider the possibility that he could be wrong about anything. So since everyone else doesn't think exactly the way he does, then everyone else is automatically wrong. No one is going to convince Jerkison otherwise. Maybe Jerkison can solve all the problems in the world economy if all the world's governments would just do everything he says. Nothing personal Jerkison but like I mentioned before, your ideas might be the "best" and most profitable model for strip clubs to follow. But how often do people and organizations choose what's "best" for them? Short of owning your own club as someone else mentioned, you'll have a hell of a time trying to change the current strip club model.

People and organizations DON'T pick the best course often enough IMHO.

GOOD point!

jerkison40,

I don't know why you are taking so much offense here. This is just how shit works. I've been there too. I've wanted to spend time with the hottest girl in the club only to see her busy with some other fucker for a long ass time. Let's face it, hotter girls can earn more and therefore their time is more valuable to them.

If you want to improve things for people who want to spend less at strip clubs, then my suggestion is to optimize things from the customer point of view. Figure out a time when there's less regulars, go then and spend time with the hotter chicks.

But otherwise, if the girl things one dude is more worth her time than others, she's gonna stick with him. Arguing that is a losing a battle, it's not going to change, and personally I doubt the club in question is actually hurting from the way things are right now. Regulars always get better treatment from girls they spend a lot of money on.

In strip clubs, money is power. No surprise that those who have this power are going to hog up the hotter chicks.

When I see my ATF in her club she usually spends the whole time I am there with me. I pay her well. It is her choice. She is NOT chained to me. I am a better financial choice for her when I visit.

Call me what ever names you wish for having her sit with me for 6 to 7 hrs. It is a WIN/WIN scenario. LOL

Jerikson, at least we are now being honest about what your real issues are here.

I'm not going to tell you how much I spend as it is none of your business, but suffice it to say that I am a good night for my fav when factoring ITC and OTC money.

But comparing stores that sell large quantities of cheap goods to a lot of people to strippers, who have only themselves to sell and a limited amount of time to make money, is kinda' silly. Now there are plenty of girls who circulate around the club as they can, or else they would never meet good spenders to begin with, but when they have good money locked down then why the hell would they move?

Now I have no trouble with any guy trying to get more for less, but it is rather silly to expect it in a strip club setting. You are obviously frustrated or else you wouldn't be promulgating those rules as the way to "improve" a club, but the reality is that if you are "stingy" then you will just have to learn to wait in line behind guys who are spending more.

"Jerkison will never change his opinion cause he believes he's 100% right and can't even consider the possibility that he could be wrong about anything"

No, the difference is that I give rational and factual statements, while most of you guys give blanket statements with no rational support. Just like Rick, he makes a statement but won't even provide his own data to support it.

If you can give a really rational argument to refute what I say, then do it. But if you just want to give me a hard time and make childish fun of my username, then fuck off.

"If you want to improve things for people who want to spend less at strip clubs, then my suggestion is to optimize things from the customer point of view"

Wait a minute. Where do you guys get the idea my goal is to totally revamp the entire strip club system???

I'm posting some random thoughts on a freakin' website for guys who go to strip clubs. How does that suddenly translate into I'm trying to change the world?

I'm not. I don't care about changing the world. It would be nice if clubs operated differently, and if I managed some I'd probably try some of my recommendations. But I don't. Never will.

Geezus, guys, this forum is about BS'ing about strip clubs, not changing the world.

What data do you have to support your statements, jerikson40? You have no idea how much money the guys in your example are spending on the girl. rickdugan has A LOT of experience with strip clubs, successfully sees girls OTC and always has really good contributions to this site. It's safe to say the man knows what he's talking about. And I agree with everything he said.

I've been going to strip clubs for a while. I've gone out with strippers, I know many of them personally/socially. I can assure you that I have a pretty good perspective on how strip clubs work, and can tell you for sure the girls I know wouldn't want it to work the way you propose.

A lot of regulars make the strip club what it is. Let's face it, with your policies of penalizing regulars the club will lose so much of their consistent/reliable income.

I was at one of my favorite clubs last night and it was really slow. One dancer I know was there and sat with one for a good 30 minutes prior to asking if I wanted to get a dance with her. I did buy her a drink, but no money exchanged prior. Got a few dances from her and tipped her a bit (like 20-30% tip, since she's really nice), and at the end she literally said "don't leave, I want your company." She basically sat next to me with her head on my shoulder just relaxing for the rest of the night. It was so slow that her walking around and asking for dances might have netted her like one or two guys getting a dance, but she'd rather just chill with me as I know for such a long time and it makes her night way easier. I'm not even a regular at this club. If the girls know who you are and enjoy your company (even if it's not enjoy, but 'prefer' your company to other guys), you're going to get benefits out of it - and they might even sacrifice a little bit of business to hang out with you. But in the long run, she'll get plenty of consistent business from me or other guys she treats this well.

Your thread is called How to improve strip clubs. You are trying to improve strip clubs, and I am telling you that customers can improve the quality of their visits themselves.

Nothing to do with changing the world, buddy. Not sure where you got that.

"You have no idea how much money the guys in your example are spending on the girl"

Which is why I suggested a survey to provide numbers. But nobody is participating.

And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy as a factual reference for the hundreds of thousands of strip club customers, then fine. I don't. Especially if he won't even provide his own numbers.

And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy, then use me. I've been to many clubs over many years, and like I said, virtually every time I've seen one or more hot girls locked down with a regular who is spending no money on her, whereas I'd gladly spend $60-80 for 10 or 15 minutes of her time.

I've given many rational and factual arguments, based on the real world and real world businesses. Did you not read them? I used names, and common business practices, and merely suggested that strip club managers might consider the real world. But apparently you don't like that idea, so you ignore it.

And by the way, "that's just the way it is" isn't really a rational argument, is it? But that's about the best you guys can come up with. Forgive me for pushing back on an argument like that, but if you're going to argue with someone then at least provide a counterpoint that has some spine to it. And if you can't provide a rational counterpoint, then maybe it's time to just agree.

And gsv, just for you, here's an analogy that I think clearly defines the issue:

Joe's House of Haircuts employs 20 girls (independent contractors) over 2 shifts. Joe's stylists perform expensive permanents for women ($80 each, the girl gets $30), and regular haircuts ($15 each, the girl gets $10).

Joe starts to notice that revenues have been dropping, and the manager tells him that more and more girls have decided that they only do permanents, not haircuts, because they make more money doing permanents. And when they're not doing perms, they sit in the back and socialize. He also says that he's seen customers wanting haircuts come in and wait for an hour or more because there's nobody willing to do haircuts, and some customers storm out saying they'll never return.

If you were Joe's management consultant, what would you do?

Apparently, some of you would tell Joe "well, dude, that's just the way it is".

I'm merely suggesting that, in the real world, "that's just the way it is" would not fly as a rational solution.

Jerikson, just because YOU don't understand how these girls are getting paid does not mean that they are sitting for free. Trust me when I say that these girls are not running charities. If they did not believe that they would be compensated for their efforts, then they would not be sitting with these guys. Your confusion over this issue is a function of your own ignorance, not theirs.

As for the rest of that stuff, we've read your points and have explained to you, over and over, why your attempts to apply the practices of large commercial entities to a strip club setting, where girls are selling a limited supply of interpersonal services, just does not hold water. It might be time for YOU to do a little more reading.

But I agree with another poster here who said that you will not get it regardless of what we say. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that you are viewing this through an emotional lens. You want to feel valued. Sorry, but in a strip club, not all customers are treated equal. The ones who contribute the most to the bottom line of a girl and a club will receive more attention than a guy who is just looking to drop his $60 for a few LDs before he goes home. And since a girl only has a limited amount of time to earn, she has to pick her spots and cannot always cater to every guy who wants a piece of her, especially if she is already with someone who is going to spend a lot of money on her.

Sorry jerikson, but that is simply the reality of strip clubs. If a girl treats every guy equally, then she is going to go home much poorer than those who focus their attentions on the best spenders, for all of the reasons already explained to you. If you cannot cope with this emotionally than I'm not sure what else there is to say to you.

If you are not in a position to pick up your spending, then my advice to you would be to pick your spots in order to maximize your value. Slower times of the day or week might yield you better results than visiting during busier times.

"...you will not get it regardless of what we say"

Dude, I will "get it" when you provide a rational argument. Give me numbers. Give me facts. Not this typical deflection BS of "oh, you just refuse to understand" or telling me I need to read a freakin' book or telling me that I just don't understand the special interpersonal dynamics of a strip club. Total BS.

Some strippers sit with a guy for a long time because they don't want to work, not because they're gonna get compensated. Because it's difficult to start a conversation with a stranger. It's easier to sit and BS with someone they know. We both know that. Just like it's easier for any employee of any company to socialize in the break room than work.

You know that your point, where strippers are making more money with regulars than with the non-regulars, applies in a very limited number of cases. But at least man up and admit it.

"And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy, then use me. I've been to many clubs over many years, and like I said, virtually every time I've seen one or more hot girls locked down with a regular who is spending no money on her, whereas I'd gladly spend $60-80 for 10 or 15 minutes of her time."

We can't use you as a representative customer because you obviously still don't get it, as is evident by yet another bad analogy - this time to a haircutting salon.

If you want to understand, become some girl's regular and spend some concentrated time in one club. Or simply wait longer periods between visits and spend more money when you DO go. As your spending increases, so too will your interactions with the girls. Once that happens, they will often take it upon themselves to educate you about how the club dynamics really work. ;)

"as is evident by yet another bad analogy - this time to a haircutting salon"

Dude, if you don't like the analogy GIVE ME A GOOD ONE, instead of just "oh, you don't understand". Geezus, you guys make ridiculous blanket statements, and I reply with rational analogies, and all you have is "oh, you just don't get". How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?

"As your spending increases, so too will your interactions with the girls."

BTW, Rick, I do want to give honorable mention for what is possibly the most brilliant statement I've seen on this forum.

So, are you saying that if you give them MORE money, then the girls will like you MORE and spend more time with you? Wow. Give me a few minutes to let that sink in, 'cuz it's kind of complex.

So to extend my already flawed analogy, the haircut guys should ask for perms.

I agree with Stilletto ans she is a dancer.

The only things that I consider major are

1 Get the girls out of the locker room and out onto the floor. 2 Get them to circulate. 3 If the girl is giving a lap dance or VIP she should be off the stage rotation until done. 4 Some one needs to prod the young dancers that they make no money sitting with the diaper boys gang that come into the club drink the beer special do not tip and have no money for lapdances

5 I do not care for manditory valet but do not mind paid secure valet optional parking

I am not a regular but I do not grudge the extra attention they get. The club should compensate by adding more girls. Regulars are just that they usually come the same nughts for the same girl etc.

When I spend an entire 7 hour afternoon shift with my ATF, I'll average approx $100/hr spending on her. She VERY gladly sits with me for that money.

Having a hard time convincing people jerikson40!

"And if you think it's reasonable to use ONE guy as a factual reference for the hundreds of thousands of strip club customers, then fine. I don't. Especially if he won't even provide his own numbers.

Which is why I suggested a survey to provide numbers. But nobody is participating."

Regarding this: 1.) You automatically reject rickdugan's strip club experience cause its only one person compared to hundreds of thousands of strip club customers. But a survey of the 20 or so different people who posted in this thread will be a much more accurate indicator of hundred of thousands of customers? Right, if you say so. I suspect that if everyone did reply, and the answers and experiences of the posters in this thread ran contrary to your point, I'm sure you'd just reject the survey results anyway cause it would only be 20 or so people compared to hundreds of thousands of customers. FYI there's probably several decades of strip clubbing experience from the people posting in this thread alone.

I can't help but think that if you posted your suggestions on the best-known stripper forum website (refered to by most people here as the pink site) that you'd get loads of angry responses from lots of angry strippers about your #8 & #9 points.

Oh by the way, everything is always perfect 'In Theory'. To you, your suggestions are perfect 'In Theory'. When you try to do something in real life is when the breakdown occurs. 'In Theory' a purely communist form of government is perfect. Look how things turned out for the USSR. Cuba isn't quite ready to take over the world. 'In Theory' capitalism with little or no regulations will make everyone millionaires. The Great Depression and the current crappy economy suggest otherwise. Oh and by the way again, regarding your 'rational and factual statements' politicians have lots of those too, enough for several lifetimes. People will believe when they see it in action.

If your suggestions really would make everyone (or almost everyone) happy, then more power to you. But until customers, dancers, and management are ready to accept something very different, we're stuck with the current system. No business model will ever satisfy all people involved, and usually it ends up being what works. As you might have noticed people are resistant to change or anything that gets them out of their comfort zone. The current system is far from perfect, but it works well enough for me.

Here's something to think about for both sides of this debate: 'A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.'

Jarikson - why don't you set up one of those kwik surveys JacksonEskay used to set up for the hottie threads. That would probably get you your information quicker than waiting on guys to write it in a thread.

jerikson, the fallacy in your analogy is that you are assuming that the girls are doing nothing if they are not doing VIPs/CRs/tip for time, etc. That is not my experience. All that anyone here is saying is that, if they have the choice with the limited time that they have available, they stick to the bigger spenders.

And in terms of sitting in the dressing room, many dancers use it to pull themselves together and to psyche themselves up to get back on the floor. Stripping and dealing with customers, some of whom can be real fucktards, is an emotionally tough fucking job. Shit, many dancers that I know cannot get themselves to work without drinking or getting stoned. And before you say something stupid like "if they can't handle the job then they shouldn't do it", I'll say that there were be far fewer dancers if that standard was universally applied.

In many cases, management doesn't give a shit what the dancers are doing with their time so long as each dancer gets on stage when she is called and can pay her house fees at the end of the night. They also know that if they push their hottest dancers too far that these girls will just say fuck it and walk out. After all, they are not employees and many of the hottest girls could be dancing the very next night at the club down the street. Some of these girls could also take their best regulars with them.

I could go on, but, as I said before, you don't care. You just want to get your haircut and feel sorry for yourself because the dancers that you want are already busy giving perms. ;) C'est la vie.