discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi clubber,
BTW, in all my years I probably had under 6 asian dancers total. Very, very, very pleased with the hot ones. :) It is funny because one of my favorite black dancers (I knew she wasn't pure black) turned out to be half Chinese. I wouldn't have guessed. Turn out she was a little self conscious about her eyes. I was telling her that she was very close to perfect for Nth time and she says what about my eyes! She is like, un DUH, you can't tell I'm half asian? Nope. :)
6 is probably overstating the number. In this area they seem fairly rare or I'm just going to the wrong clubs.
discussion comment
17 years ago
So I go into a dive, Angels, for example. I write the facts which would rightfully depress some people. It is a small dirty club that often has blubber butts. Almost all (100%) the dancers are black, most are sporting tats and piercings and or brandings. The music is too loud. The place is PACKED. Parking is in short supply. Etc.
I give the club a rating of 10 because that is the value of the club to me. If a person can read, then they shouldn't have any problem with my review.
Looking at Tootsies which is considered a very good club by most club goers---upscale, expensive, gentlemen's club and then comparing it to Angels, there is no comparision. Angels would win by a mile every single time, imo, even when the blubber butts are there. I don't care for the style of dancers at Tootsies--too many fake tits, too old (26), too much makeup, etc. The price is thru the roof, imo, at $25 for 3 minutes. So where do I go better than 97% of the time? Angels. :) If you have a lot of money and you're into clean and upscale and you don't have a problem with fake tits, then yes Tootsies probably would merit a higher rating. I think I gave Tootsies a 6 or 7---really, just as easy I could have given it a 1. I almost never go there and it is close. And, it is beautiful. If that is what strip clubs are all about, then I don't have any interest in strip clubs. Now Angels, even with the invasion of the blubber butts from time to time that is a strip club. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
http://199.242.69.70/pls/ds/ds_docket?p_caseyear=2002&p_casenumber=1707&psCourt=3&psSearchType=
The above is a link to a Third DCA case that was very interesting. At the trial one thing that really impressed me is that the judge genuinely seemed like he wanted to do the right thing for both parties. He said, correctly imo, that this was a 50/50 case and that the main issue was a matter of law more than facts. Meaning that under the law he felt he could rule correctly for either side. The judge also stated, I believe correctly, that he couldn't just split the baby because unfortunately the law required an all or none decision. He urge the parties a couple of times to settle the case because that would be the fair outcome for everyone. Unfortunately, neither side was willing to budge (they were both viewing it morally--right v. wrong--and not in the legal sense) and the judge was forced to make a decision. :( I don't necessarily disagree with the decision as far as who gets the money and like he said it was a 50/50 case that could definitely be decided either way.
The trial judge's decision was *reversed* by the Third DCA in an authored and published opinion. The majority decision, imo, was completely brain dead. The dissenting judge wrote a powerful opinion, imo.
So the case goes to the Florida Supreme Court were it is *reversed* yet again! I would give thumbs down to Florida Supreme Court as well, btw, but that is neither here nor there. If appealed and heard by the U.S. Supreme Court, then it might be reversed yet again. :)
I believe both sides had merit to their positions and that the trial judge was right i.e. the case could legally and fairly be decided for either party. He said it might even be fairer to just flip coin, but he wasn't going to do that. I think he should have, with a neutral party flipping the coin and a designated attorney calling heads or tails in the air. :) In this case it would have been fairer to both sides, imo.
Anyway, there is a lot of meat to this case. Even though it was a very meaty case, imo, an administrative hearing officer (high school diploma) could have handle the case better. Of course, I could be wrong. :) And, I don't just write that because I'm disgusted with the court system. With all their education and training all of the judges sought to avoid/ignore the central argument by both sides regarding "procuring cause." The trial judge, who I appreciated, even avoided explaining his finding/decision as to procuring cause and that was the whole ball of wax according to both sides and the judge. For the judges, at least in writing, they didn't want to get into the main issue of procuring cause----the facts weren't really in dispute . . . the battle was over the law and thru 3 layers of judges the legal point was evaded. :(
The sad thing is the loser was financially devastated. IMO, both sides were essentially good people and yet the way the system is designed it is incredibly expensive and the product is poor. The loser has every right, imo, to be completely disgusted with the court system. He spends mega bucks in legal fees and the damn judges repeatedly refuse to explain the main issue?! At Florida Supreme Court level, imo, the quality of the judges was at its lowest.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi clubber,
Maybe the east side of 7th Ave? It seemed like there were a lot of places in the old days---a ton of erotic massage or one on one dance on NW 7th. FONDL had posted about the older generation being more tolerant. And, it is funny because yes I think generally that was the case (excluding the racial issues, for example) even though the tolerant people were often extremely conservative. By conservative I don't mean waving the American flag all over the place or spouting religious BS as if it were the only truth. By conservative I mean an extremely healthy distrust of government and being numbered i.e. national identification.
I didn't see the OLD Tootsies as being comparable to The Trap at all. The Trap in its hey day I remember ALL 9s and 10s and prices out of my reach (I was very poor) and the place was comfortable for talking (the music wasn't loud) with the really sweet girls that didn't seem slutty. I was well treated even though I didn't have money and I wasn't a smiler. The OLD Tootsies the music was like rocket engines, but louder. I could barely talk to the dancers even with yelling. It drained a ton of the fun away. The girls all seemed slutty (I loved it!) and they had super hot dancers to super dog dancers. I could afford the prices and would have done a little business if I could have held up under the music attack. It is bad when a couple days later you're still having hearing trouble. Yes, other people would lump them together, but I just saw them as having very different focuses and products. In fact, I think it is normal for the typical club goer to see one dive as essentially equal to other dives. Also, The Trap from my perspective was upscale (yes, I realize now that was a minority view) and the OLD Tootsies seemed more down and dirty, but definitely more upscale than Angels. I think the Angels of old was No. 1 in being down and dirty (not sex wise) and out and place even dive lovers would generally avoid. At one time it had NO music, which was fantastic!!! :) The dancers didn't dance, which was fantastic!!! There wasn't a requirement to be friendly, which was fantastic!!! Ah, the good old days and at the time I knew they were good days, but just didn't have any money to really have a blast.
Hi FONDL,
One example is good enough for me! :) To me, it is a NO brainer because mileage is not the be all and end all for me. The problem is opening the club and having the right to restrict anyone for any reason and to free of all the government BS. IOWs, ideally I could open a conversation strip club on a used book store budget. Now, we're talking freedom. And, I don't think the girls need to make as much as totally nude because it is NOT all about the money. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
And, talking about adding salt to the wound the $400 per hour attorney did a Motion to Withdraw and basically said something about differences--it was as nice he could make it and still get free from the case apparently. So, when he shows at the last hearing he is still doing what I consider to be a good job and fighting for my rights. And, he tells the judge verbally there is absolutely NO problem between him and me. Which is the very strong impression that I had. So verbally I'm an A+ client. In the written record there is a phoney conflict that the law requires? The judge talks about the "conflict" and I say it is a "conflict" because I've run out of *my* money? I say if I can't pay, then why should he work? That doesn't make any sense. I said I believe we are on very good terms and would like to do further work for me if I can raise the money.
So from my perspective the system is geared toward mandating dishonesty to final end. If there is another judge, then it could be argued that my $400 per hour attorney had conflicts with me, his alleged reason for withdrawing, and therefore it is obvious that I'm a horrible person. The court system, imo, is disgusting and corrupt.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Oh, and in this same case judge No. 2 (judge No. 1 got transferred to the family division) claimed in anger that there is NO difference between a Warranty Deed and Quit Claim Deed!
A settlement had been worked out where I would transfer my interest in the unit to the plaintiff via a Quit Claim Deed. Everything had been agreed to by my attorney (this was a rotten to the core attorney), me, and the plaintiff's attorney. My attorney had even stated repeatedly that it was to be a Quit Claim Deed. Later, I said a Special Warranty Deed would be fine as long as it was just to insure I hadn't further transferred my interest, which I hadn't so that wasn't a problem at all. Anyway, I'm sent a Full Warranty Deed to sign because I told my attorney to mail it so that I can review it first. WOW! What a shocker. At first I just thought it had been a simple misunderstanding that my attorney would easily correct. I'd been sent a standard Warranty Deed!!!??? My attorney (a woman, btw) said she was sorry, but at the last moment the other side had changed their mind and demanded a Full Warranty Deed. So, you have NO choice, but to sign she said. I then contacted 2 other attorneys (one of whom specialized in real property litigation) both attorneys had me come and reviewed the documents, etc. and both advised NOT to sign a full warranty. I fired the lady attorney and the plaintiff went off the deep end writing a nasty letter about me to the judge. How I wasn't keeping my word and had lied, blah, blah, blah. Of course, the judge at hearing was blasting me for not honoring the settlement agreement. I explained it was the plaintiff who had broken the settlement agreement. The judge practically yells how is that! I say well your Honor, after everything was agreed to the plaintiff changed what was agreed to. Instead of a Quit Claim Deed which I was willing to sign, I was sent a standard Warranty Deed. The judge says didn't your attorney tell you to sign it! I said yes. The judge says that's because there isn't any difference between a Quit Claim Deed and Warranty Deed! I said NO, your Honor my attorney said I didn't have any choice. The judge booms EXACTLY!
Anyway, who knows if the judge was just a crook or dishonest or ignorant or whatever. The expensive $400 per hour attorney says the judge (judge No. 2) just wanted me to obey my attorney and not make legal decisions. I asked the $400 per hour attorney would you have advised me to sign a standard Warranty Deed? He shook his head and says NO.
Anyway, it isn't just me. Not only have I read about absurd cases in the newspaper, or in case law, but I'm aware of other people screwed even worse than me. IMO, it just isn't much of system. Yes, it is supposedly better than elsewhere and that might be true. But, that makes it a good system or one that I should care about? Ideally, I will die a natural painless death sooner rather than later and it will be unimportant then. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
>>>"The judge says your attorney did an excellent job and fought hard for you and you should have listened to him! I said I DID listen to him and look where it got me?"<<<
BTW, I think my attorney really did do a lot of work and agree 100% with the trial judge as far as my "attorney did and excellent job and fought hard for you."
discussion comment
17 years ago
>>>"There is no shortage of lawyers in the USA, and this was cause a huge spike in supply"<<<
Hi David9999,
Interesting post, at least for me. :) My knee jerk reaction is that there is no shortage of lawyers in USA. It might even be considered common sense.
But, actually I think it might be better for the country if a basic high school diploma had enough "core law" courses so that it would automatically entitle the holder to "practice law." There wouldn't be any "advanced" legal education as far as licensure or other special privileges or even government jobs. Yes, that probably sounds brain dead and crazy to most people. And, who knows they might be right and I could be completely wrong.
>>>"This idea was pushed very heavily by (mostly) white liberal law school professors, who tried to claim that the exam HAD to be racist because in CAL only about 10 to 20% of blacks (a bit higher for hispanics) could pass the exam vs typically 40 to 50% of whites and asians"<<<
I can see arguments like this: The defendant abused an illegal substance and thus is guilty of a first degree felony. The actual undisputed fact may be that the defendant had a single beer. Is this abuse? Well, if the law defines it as abuse that may be the ballgame. To take an extreme example of the "racist" argument. The law could define as racist and even criminal any test where blacks fail to out perform whites or asians or Martians or whatever. A person may laugh and say well how in the world do you expect to make sure that blacks do significantly better on a test than whites? That is simple. The test could provide that since blacks in general have a much higher level of morality than whites that a credit of 100 points will be imputed to their final score. If an A+ is defined as 100 points, then a black person need only show up to receive an A+. Just to make sure that blacks outscore whites the test could also provide that since whites in general have a much lower level of morality a debit of 100 points will be imputed to their final score. Thus a white could answer every question correctly and yet still fail the test. :)
Before you think this too "crazy" let me assure you that when it comes to law nothing is too "crazy" or too stupid. In my condo case the law is supposed to provide in a foreclosure action that in a situation where the plaintiff acquires the property at the auction, then the defendant is entitled to a hearing as to the value of the property if the plaintiff seeks a deficiency judgment. The judge of course disagreed that a hearing on the value of the unit needed to be held. After much more litigation my attorney was permitted to provide evidence of value i.e. an appraisal report as of the date of sale and 2 investors that were not only willing to purchase the unit "as is," but were also willing to pay *all* the claimed attorneys' fees and court costs and interest and penalties. Plaintiff argued successfully that they were entitled to not only the ownership of the unit, but damages as well. My attorney argued that there were no damages because the unit was definitely worth more than the claimed damages. So plaintiff should either get the "damages" i.e. money found to be owed, attorneys' fees, interest, penalties, etc. or the unit. NOT both. My attorney claimed that I had a super strong case, which is what other attorneys had advised me. When the judge ruled against me, my attorney really wanted to appeal. Yes, I would be willing to do that if I had any faith in appellate judges. My attorneys excuse for the trial judge was that he had just recently come from the criminal division and really didn't understand civil cases.
The trial judge wanted me to contest the plaintiff's "reasonable" attorneys' fees. I said your Honor if I contest the fees you can just double or triple them I have no legal protections. The trial judge says you have the appellate court. I said your Honor the appellate court is better than you? The judge says your attorney wants you to contest the fees. I said yes, and my attorney also said I had a very stong case and not just him, but other attorneys that I consulted before hiring him. My attorney has an outstanding reputation, which is why I hired him at $400 per hour. The judge says your attorney did an excellent job and fought hard for you and you should have listened to him! I said I DID listen to him and look where it got me? Look, any amount the plaintiff demands is "reasonable" because like I said I don't have any legal rights in this country.
Most people can't believe or they'll make excuses. I think in general the courts do an extremely poor job. I might be wrong in that assessment, but that is my experience and also reading different case law on different issues it just doesn't give me a lot of confidence.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Well, that sounds like about 15 minutes worth of dances at Tootsies. :) And, probably around 2 hrs at Angels if you don't get an overcounter. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
That is a surpise that the high mileage club draws the most attractive dancers. But, times change.
Truly, it should be heaven if you like BIG women. I don't see a shortage of BIG, but then seeing 1 is 1 too many imo. Perhaps if I was a GC fan, then I'd be complaining that they don't have any pleasingly plump dancers. As it is the new huge Tootsies, a GC, doesn't seem to have much in the way of small cute dancers that I like. Just as well given the cost of a dance is out of my ball park.
Truly if BIG is your thing then the local Walmart should be your best buddy. Probably there are a bunch of good Walmart pick-up lines too. Like, I'm Smart Shopper, I'm a Walmart Shopper, Please Take a Seat in My Cart. :) Or, I Love Walmart Because They Have Lots of Bargains, And DAMN You Look Like The Bargain of Eternity. :) Ok, if I had any interest in picking up Walmart customers then I'd work on those lines----OTOH, blubber butt should be grateful with any dumb lines I can generate! BTW, many times DUMB can be GOOD THING, NOT A BAD THING, A GOOD THING. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi FONDL,
Does the stereotype of the more attractive dancers working at low mileage clubs hold up?
I would think that is the case. What does a dog have to offer besides lapping? Of course, there is that buga boo the beauty is in the eye of the beholder . . .
discussion comment
17 years ago
One crucial part of the tuition scam, imo, is the government licensing laws that often require a degree and so manys years of study at an accredited college, inter alia, *before* you're permitted to sit for the exam.
I believe that by studying old Florida Bar Exams it would be easy for me to pass . . . I think the fee for the exam is now $4,000? I don't know. But, it would nice to be allowed to take the tests without "investing" large sums in an accredited school---not to mention all of the time "wasted." And, who knows the bar exam may not be as simple as I believe it to be. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Some dancers, probably a tiny minority, actually like stubble! Safest bet of course is close shave!
discussion comment
17 years ago
Apparently it isn't all about the mileage. :)
Thanks again!
(BTW, I do actually need some contact. It just doesn't seem too hard core to me. But, to an air dancer it might seem like rape!)
discussion comment
17 years ago
INFORMED is a very interesting issue.
I took a wealthy buddy to Angels and he hated the place. He thought it was totally disgusting and if the dancers where giving FREE dances it would be expensive. He would have given a rating of 1. Sometime later we are driving past Angels and I tell him to pull over. He is like not to that hell hole I'm not. He further states NO attractive dancer will take off her clothes for $5. You get what you pay for. I repeat pull over I want to see if my buddies are workings. He gets upset and says look they aren't your buddies; they're whores; ugly ones at that!
He thought he was an INFORMED customer based on a single visit. He didn't believe me even a little when I told him he just got unlucky and there often were highly attractive dancers working. He gets to repeating not for $5 and I've already seen that garbage.
Anyway, he pulls over and my buddies are working! :) He is in one foul nasty mood because I "forced" him to a club that he knew for a fact 100% that there was nothing good about it. He'd seen it with his own 2 eyes!
His new rating? Angels = 10. Yes, that dramatic a reversal. :) He still can't understand how such beautiful women are willing to do so much for a lousy $5 and he also doesn't understand why so many of the customers over there seem to be in love with 300 pounders. He said it doesn't make any sense at all. Bottom line after becoming *actually informed* he is a huge fan of Angels.
discussion comment
17 years ago
"It's the description that counts.'
EXACTLY!!! :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi FONDL,
LOL! But, remember there is the small issue of $500 per hour compensation and perhaps a 2 hour min. :) Of course, that might be pocket change to you especially for the right dancer.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Bobbyl,
I think you hit the nail on the head for some customers. Wishful thinking. He may be thinking I'm a nice guy and generous and successful and can converse intelligently and we have shared interests and I would treat her so well and etc. How could she not realize that I'm a good catch? It wouldn't be logical for her not to fall in love or at least like me as a very close friend; we will have a wonderful life together. Big deal if I need to invest ten or twenty thousand dollars for a life time of happiness. :)
Now as far as not knowing about alternatives it seems like the customer, imo, is responsible for doing his due diligence. I can't imagine an informed local choosing Tootsies over Angels UNLESS 1) money has little value to them, 2) they're not interesting in buying dances, 3) they don't care for black clubs and or dancers, 4) it is a business deal situation . . . well that about covers it. It interesting that Angels went from DEAD to PACKED and yet it is a small dirty dive. :) Who knows perhaps a lot of other customers couldn't afford $25 for 3 minutes. And, The Trap is now an expensive dive so no refuge there.
Angels = 10 Tootsies = 6 Trap = 1 But, those numbers are so subjective. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Tough talk Shadowcat, but if you met her in person could you stand up to her weaponry i.e. beauty? ;) Seriously, do you begrudge men, assuming they're fully informed, paying even HUGE amounts for her conversation?
If so, then why? It will become the standard. The men are incompetent. You believe in price controls. It is more than your hourly compensation. Just trying to understand what the problem is, in your opinion. If a woman wanted to charge $5,000 per hour for conversation and men were willing to pay, then what is the problem?
discussion comment
17 years ago
The loudest club that I was ever in was the OLD Tootsies. I couldn't hear well for a few days afterward. It was depressing in that there were hot slutty women (also dogs) for a reasonable price.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I think there are probably a ton of older (34) dancers who are like this, but would you find them attractive? I see men get all excited about women who I would like to see fully clothed with NO hanky panky. One category is the blubber butt. The men just can't get enough of those 300 pounders. Another category is the old dancer. I'm not talking about a dancer the man has known for years. Just old dancers generally. Could 34 to 55. Age just isn't a consideration or old is preferred. Actually, if forced to choose I'd probably go with the 300 pounder over the oldster. Older is generally just a turn off. Now, when I was young it was a different story . . . I loved OLD women and young women and middle age women and really age wasn't important if they were looking good i.e. not fat, not tall, good skin, clear eyes, good teeth, no fake titties, etc.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Also, I think the average age at Tootsies is probably around 26. That is just too old for my tastes. The only older women I would be interested in are those who at least look to be between 18 and 22.
It seems like the majority on this board prefer older or age isn't too important.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Given their $5 lap dances. I definitely rate it a 10.
Sorry, but if a Tootsies rates an 8.5? with it $25 for 3 minutes, then I just don't see how the $5 club is anything but a 10. Not only that I really wasn't too happy with the style of Tootsies' dancers. In general they seemed too tall (for me that is a deal breaker), too many fake tits (another deal breaker--I'd rather see blubber butts), and not enough black dancers (this is a much lower priority, but a min. of 5% would be nice). Who knows if the $25 for 3 minutes was in my budget I might see the club in a very different light.
So, imo, he didn't rate the club high enough. And, I think that is a real problem that generally expensive clubs get ratings that are way too high and cheap dives get ratings that are too low. :(
Not only that I do have a hard on against the expensive clubs because here in Miami there seems to be an agenda to kill off the small dives, which imo are FAR superior to the tourist or gentlemen's clubs, and leave only this expensive garbage. Get rid of the inexpensive small dives and it doesn't make a difference in the least to me if all strip clubs are closed. Thus, inexpensive dives = 10 and gentlemen's or tourist clubs = 1.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Yes, that is the OLD Tootsies. And, then it increased in size by maybe a factor of more than 4 while remaining in the same location. Not only did it increase in size it, imo, went way upscale. Of course, I also considered The Trap upscale while probable most people would consider it a friendly dive at its peak. Then the new Tootsies again increased in size, but moved.
So, I was referring to the OLD Tootsies at the old location before it increased in size. 183rd? I thought it was 199th and NW 7th. But, I'm not great with remembering addresses/locations. Very near me in the NW many years ago there was a club that was heaven, but it was a "hidden" club. I could find the general area, but not the exact location. I seem to remember NO signs to speak of and it was a real surprise because I didn't even realize it was a strip club until I went in and it was WOW!!! Hot girls galore (mainly white or all white) and I was treated like royalty; it was too good to be true. :) The next day I went to find it, I figured I would recognize the exterior, and it wasn't to be. If I had a better sense of direction . . . or written the address down . . .
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi SuperDude,
Do you also like fat chicks? ;) Just teasing. :)