discussion comment
16 years ago
Anyway, a lot of customers do a lot of crazy thinking that is not going to get them where they'd like to go.
discussion comment
16 years ago
"jablake
I guess what I'm trying to say is that while trying to list the possible motivations of others is a noble thought, due to the complexity of the human animal the best we may be able to realistily accomplish is to stop trying to shoehorn everyone else into our particular model."
That is the point I was trying to make! :)
Too often I hear customers who are upset that dancers only care about money. Well, yes and no. It is fairly complex. A wealthy buddy is throwing money at dancers and they see him as an ATM and his feelings are hurt?!?
It would have been a stunner if the dancers could see him as anything, but an ATM the way he behaved. Yes, he was nice enough. He didn't value their conversation because as he pointed out he is much more educated and much brighter. Given the way he feels about them, I just thought it was incredible that he expected real affection. Worse----he didn't have any real affection for them! He thinks the money should be the substitute. Anyway, a lot of customer do a lot of crazy thinking that is not going to get them where they like to go.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Gambling dancer and empathy aren't 2 words that I'd put together. :) I could be wrong or just too distrustful in general. Because I know what an excellent actress she is and that she is willing to do acting that other dancers refuse----it leaves me taking a very hard look at her. My thinking was that she could do the acting because she lacked emphathy that other dancers seemed to have too much of. OTOH, at a certain point maybe she does have empathy.
I know that I needed the commercial nature of the relationship to continue or I'd become much more sentimental and caring. The money was my life line to keep the fantasy a fantasy.
As far as the dotted line returning back to the money that seems like it could easily disappear once the person feels they're not at risk or hungry for ever more goodies. As soon as I feel more secure the money doesn't mean a whole lot and I will try and help people without expecting anything in return. When financial problems rise up, the game changes. It is easy to imagine some dancers not being concerned about money in part because too often their time horizon is SHORT. Gambling dancer is thinking in terms of only days! It is so hard to understand that type of thinking.
I will add that if the dancer knows that you have money that makes a HUGE difference because often she will see it as simple sharing---not necessarily pay for play. I've never luxuriated in the trappings of wealth---that were mine. If anything looking at my living conditions might bring shock or pity.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I think the more education a person has about the lawyers, judges, and the court system, the less likely he will be in awe of the people; or the process. Some are razor sharp and others leave you wondering how they graduated from high school.
I may be 100% dead wrong, but I doubt the typical judge has more than superficial knowledge regarding jury nullification.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I have no idea what he is actually feeling. He might be laughing his ass off or he might be having a nervous breakdown.
Reminds me of a story that I think was in The Wall Street Journal some years ago. This Ebay seller was just a crook and an asshole. The party that got ripped off apparently became enraged by the crooked seller's taunting and or lying----just simple theft may not have been enough to send him over the edge.
How far over? He sent a mail bomb that blew up the crooked seller's home with him and his grandmother still inside!
If he had actually met the crooked seller in person, then the whole game might have been changed to one of compassion. The crooked seller was a 13 year old boy with a pretty pathetic lifestory that with the bombing got even more pathetic.
Point is someone may have "brought that on himself," but depending on individual circumstances there should still be room for compassion.
discussion comment
16 years ago
If available in your area, then you might test giving a cheap dive a minimum of 10 straight visits. A buddy who only liked expensive clubs and he can easily afford them, went to Angels a $5 club. His first visit and he was totally disgusted. We stayed because I was hoping the hotties would show, which could be at anytime. Probably the most unhappy camper I'd ever witnessed. He thought the dancers should have been paying him! NEVER AGAIN was his refrain.
Well the next time that I visited with him he happened to be driving so after putting up a stink he enters Angels in a NASTY MOOD. I was even shocked by how hot the dancers were and how many there were and I *know* that it can get like that. So he has a ball and suddenly he is asking why anyone would go to Tootsies?!? Well, there are a lot of good reasons to prefer Tootsies over Angels and vice versa.
I was very surprised that the cost savings meant so much to him. He says it just felt great being in a club where you'd have to just throw money away for it to be expensive. He says I can spend non-stop and it costs nothing.
Angels is now his FAVORITE club.
discussion comment
16 years ago
"and you haggle for two for $30, you can't expect the club to stand behind that."
You may and it may be very much appreciated. No, probably not your haggling. Management may be very interested in knowing what dancers are undercutting club prices and or acting as ROBs. Just because she acted as a ROB in one case doesn't mean she isn't discount debbie in others.
discussion comment
16 years ago
"When will they ever learn."
Perhaps they already have. Post reviews that holler ADVERTISEMENT to generate some smoke and then mix in some scholarly works for synergy and, well, it's showtime. :)
discussion comment
16 years ago
Game Theory.
Your goal is to give away $10,000 in cash to a couple of random strangers that you picked out on Miami Beach. The hitch is they have to agree (assuming they're willing to accept the money) on how to divide the money. Normally, that should be very easy i.e. 50/50 split.
What happens if one of the strangers insists the only fair split is 90/10 in his favor? Does the other person say goody goody I just got a FREE $1,000 for doing nothing? :) I mean that might happen. How about 80/20? Will that get the job done? Heck that is a FREE $2,000 for doing nothing. That might happen. :) Do I hear 60/40?
The normal expectation is that a very strong sense of "social justice" will easily machine gun down desires for FREE money even amongst those who proudly proclaim money to be their God. What is "social justice"? In the FREE money example *most* people see "social justice" as 50/50 and NOT a nickel less.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Hi clubman2,
Well, FREE is my own personal dislike and it is a very strong dislike. It doesn't just apply to strippers or women. It is the dislike of the FREE lunch . . . I LOVE a good deal, but too good and the danger Will Robinson warning starts playing and even where there is NO threat the conscience will step in; my idea of right and wrong.
I also am wary of dualistic thinking. For example, the more I learned about Gambling dancer the more I learned that my money was probably a joke to her. To some that would immediately default to she has real affection toward me. It is like there is this EITHER OR that is all controlling. If *somehow* it would be known for an absolute fact that your money means zero to her, then her motives are real affection. What else could it possible be besides real affection???
GAME? I don't know that and some or probably most would laugh at that suggestion. They know that if they were a woman being intimate and it wasn't about the money, then it would *have* to be about real affection in at least some guise. People generally have a very bad habit of putting other people in ***their*** shoes. Blubber blobs disgust me so therefore all males must be disgusted by blubber blobs or at the very least would prefer a real woman i.e. a hottie.
Those people that I know who are money focused tend to place that focus on other people. They can't or won't comprehend that other person may have very different values. One of the clearest examples that I would see is refusal to sell or do business with blacks. You could talk dollars all day long, but threats of law or loyalty to law would go much further and sometimes it was just dead on arrival. Before doing business with blacks better to take a financial beating rather than be "contaminated" or whatever their thought process happened to be and it could range the gamut.
Do people want to think about the gamut? Not usually. The norm is to simplify. The old one size fits all.
A good brain exercise is to start listing *possible* reasons for another person's actions. :)
discussion comment
16 years ago
Yes. :) What are your rules, if any, on kicking a skunk when he is down?
discussion comment
16 years ago
I agree it is a matter of perspective and, imo, most customers have NONE. Too often I see a desperate need for real affection or a hatred against the dancer because the service should be FREE.
The biggest errors of perspective, imo:
1. The idea that she likes you for more than your money.
2. It is all about the money.
Yes, it may seem contradictory. It isn't.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Many years back, there was this pain in the ass crook over at Angels. First contact might scream for a connect-the-dots type that she was all about the money and nothing else.
She was HOT and a CROOK and AGGRESSIVE---at first. So she cheated me on the number of dances and the contact and even the price! Boy, what a woman. Immediately it becomes clear she is willing to escalate thru the roof. I just wanted to be rid of her so I PAID IN FULL---not like me at all, but I just wanted her gone ASAP and without any arguments.
So, think I'm rid of the asshole? NO. Not so easy. She comes back and wants more dances. Unbelieveable. Worse, she is in my face DEMANDING dances. I basically snap something like GET LOST FAST!!!
Over now? Are you kidding? No, no, no. This bitch wants confrontation and this is after I PAID IN FULL to be rid of her.
FINALLY, she comes back into my face once too often. I EXPLODE. She is scrambling backwards and a very brave friend jumps in my way. I brush her aside like the feather she is and she goes to the ground. The bitch is on the ground shortly thereafter. I tell her she needs to be getting her man so we settle things real proper real quick. She ain't NO in your face bitch any longer. Club security knows me very well and they did nothing. The other dancers did nothing. The poor dancer didn't have a man so that issue could get resolved properly.
The whole game changed. Suddenly on that and many many many other visits I'm all world to her. The money means absolutely nothing. She is available for FREE-----that just ain't a good deal. I can't repeat that often enough. Stay away from FREE. Extreme aggressiveness is what got her panties wet. $$$'s? Please. Even when I'd met her $$$ demands she wasn't even a little happy and if she stole more it is doubtful she'd be happy.
Her idea of a man apparently is someone who will lay down the law and with violence if necessary. That is her aphrodisiac. Now, I was thinking when I threw her to the ground----it was just rage and it could have ended badly. I sure as hell wouldn't advise it---I just wanted her away from me and it turn out that is what she thinks a real man is supposed to be about. A man treats her nice and she'd probably have nothing, but abuse and more abuse for him.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I'm watching these dancers at the cheap clubs and their values or what turns them on seems so DIFFERENT. It is like the difference between the all white Angels and the all black Coco's many years back. You'd have to see it to believe. One club is loud and dance crazy and the other club has the plug pulled from the juke box to silence it and the dancers' don't dance. (I prefer the silence and NO dancing, btw.) Happy. Sad. Black. White. Pretty. Ugly. It is like a forced duality of opposites.
So, I'm watching these dancers at the cheap clubs and it is DIFFERENT. Gambling dancer is DIFFERENT. The connect-the-dots doesn't really work unless you've seen the culture in action. I'm watching Royalty get into her rapper mode and I can see the heat rising in her just as I could see the heat when Gambling dancer played Suduko and started "winning." The $$$'s? That isn't generating much of anything except compliance with sexual requests. If that is what you want, then there isn't a shortage in Miami.
Now, I don't know much about the expensive $20 dancers and wouldn't have the resources to find out what makes the heat rise for them. Perhaps it is the $$$s. Seems sorta boring, like the clubber just looking for FS or BJ. But, different strokes for different folks.
Pimping, imo, is emotionally draining in the extreme i.e. a super bad deal. Hey, some men don't mind intense real emotions. I prefer fake. :) And, as previousley elaborated on: FREE is a sucker's game.
discussion comment
16 years ago
David1999 brought up the all important seed spreading syzygy and I think mackin is part of that whole allure of the manly male with bitches aplenty. Now gentleman Horndog Vibe . . . hmmm, think mo like a rapper crooning Katch a Kop, Kill a Kop, KKK Kop Killers!!! Dey B woe4 em Kootchies Krave. Yes, don't have to make a lot of cents or bills. I just know what I see. Royalty, the dancer from Angels, was the most adorable little rapper hanger-onner. I wish I bought a few of the videos she starred in.
Need futher proof of illogic and insanity? Royalty was SUNFIRE HOT and you know what these rappers wanted??? WHALE BLUBBER!!!
discussion comment
16 years ago
"Like I said before ATM"
Thinking like the logical square and that is smarter for your bottom line, imo. Meaning you don't want NO hoe bringing you home her pussy and her money for your pleasure. Better to be a wage slave or better still secure a SGS i.d. sweet gubmint sinecure.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Well there are just too many. Even better was Kool Aid Preacher in Guyana with the alliterative moniker: Jim Jones. He worked those hoes all day and all night. I'd read as many as 16 a day---YAY. :)
It's all about the $$$??? More true, imo, it's all about the mack. To wit, a link about mackin books for your further consideration: http://www.amazon.com/Mack-Within-Tariq-Nasheed/dp/1594481792/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218159034&sr=1-2 and see what else customers who purchased this book also bought.
discussion comment
16 years ago
In government education camps men are coerced into confessing that they had NO desire for sex with a prostitute, but rather just wished to demean and dominate women. Even if that were 100% correct that paid sex is always misogynistic that surely ain't correlative that it isn't a healing sexual surrogacy 100% of the time. Hell'n if government's abhorrent absolutism is appropriate the mirror maybe more magnanimous. :)
discussion comment
16 years ago
Correction:
Despite my advanced age and having owned a small bookstore nudiustertian (the day before yesterday) was the first time I've peeked at the prose of Dr. King; natationed (swimming) with metaphors it was. :)
Just as with eleemosynary, I've been riding my time to wheel out nudiustertian and natationed.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Despite my advanced age and having owned a small bookstore nudiustertian (the day before yesterday) was the first time I've peeked at writing of Dr. King; natationed (swimming) with metaphors. :)
Just as with eleemosynary, I've been riding my time to wheel out nudiustertian and natationed.
discussion comment
16 years ago
President Bush, destroyer of not only the U.S. Constitution and minor countries, but of our mental bread and butter; the English highway.
discussion comment
16 years ago
Could be arbeeguy is a fan of President George W. Bush or of smog literaturely speaking. :)
discussion comment
16 years ago
Many many years ago, I met a perfect 10 over at Coco's and the timing was perfect: The wonderful dancer that I'd been seeing regularly for almost a year over at Angels had made two nasty decisions. First, she wasn't going to accept money from me. Second, she wanted me to get her pregnant and she even wanted to go to a doctor of my choosing to prove she wasn't already pregnant. I don't want FREE and I don't want to start a family. Bottom line, I left Angels until she was willing to come to her senses! She never did and the story got more depressing. :(
Back to Coco's now that I've been run off from my own club: So this perfect 10 is very unusual in that she gives a certain number of *identical* dances. Thusly, dance 1 is different from dance 2 is different from dance 3 and so on, until a certain point where the pattern repeats! :) I would get either 4 or 8 dances every visit depending on my budget for that night. Everytime, would be a repetition of previous times. I just LOVED IT! :) One time she commented that she was sure that I would have been bored long ago because at some point I sure have realized that her dances were identical to previous dances. I explained that I recognized that very early. She says and you kept buying?! She thought that was very strange. I enjoy seeing the same dancer over and over and also enjoy the same dances over and over. :) Unfortunately, I've met almost NO dancers who give *identical* sets of dances like that over time.
Anyway, I tried to get her to sell fake affection---a sexual surrogacy of sorts. She basically said NO WAY JOSE!!! When I asked why her answer *seemed* stupid and strange. She explained that I wasn't her type in the least: too short, wrong color, too intelligent, blah, blah, blah. I never realized she had a never ending list of qualities and that I didn't pass inspection of any of them. It was actually nice to hear this never ending list, but I wanted her to get to the main point.
The main point was that she believed that if she started acting as a favor or to keep my business, then she would start to believe the act herself! And, she didn't want to fall for me. I said that is CRAZY because you just recited the longest list ever in history of why you're NOT interested in me!!! Heck, you fail just a little bit short on my short list and I'd be rid of you right quick! She said she understood, but with her it was very different. She *knew* that if she started acting and got into the role it wouldn't take long before she started believing.
I objected. She responding by complaining that I was way too intelligent and she just didn't trust me AND that *I must be aware* that the role playing is a trap. She said she just wasn't going to be trapped and she viewed the acting as very dangerous to her. I remind her that I failed on her long long long list. She reiterates that the acting would undermine her list and she would believe her own act! I'm just shaking my head in disbelief. She was a FIRM NO!!! So, I just kept buying her *identical* dance sets of 4 or 8. :)
discussion comment
16 years ago
Hi arbeeguy,
In other countries you may not need the discretionary cash to buy the best drugs. Lebanon according to a buddy who is from there has excellent drugs basically for free e.g. hashish, opium. It is illegal, but a total non-priority thus dealers can't get rich. He claims they're are a lot better ways to have fun in Lebanon and there just isn't a significant culture of getting high except perhaps in the boonies. BTW, he fled to the US only because of the war and loves the US for giving him safety---NO interest in American women or culture, however. South America the same deal. I've heard the discretionay cash argument before and it seems like most in the U.S. are debtors worried about paying the bills; a stress in very a stressful corrupt country. Could be discretionary income is the key, but I doubt it.
I wouldn't necessarily see those as good judges *in the least* because I believe in freedom of association and freedom of contract and most importantly freedom from the government making all manner of decisions for the individual. The government force and fraud of law created a social environment of widespread evil against blacks. Judges from what I saw had their own evil to peddle with the same force and fraud of law.
Are there examples of good judges? Sure. For example, there was a case where a young black youth who was arrested for a "drive by." He wasn't guilty and it was just a fraud mostly likely by an *angry and disgusted white police officer*. The black youth got lucky as hell that he got the right judge because in this nasty court system he could easily have been doing years and years in prison for nothing. :(
My freedom and security are almost zero with the judges and for the most part they're corrupted by $$$'s in their eyes. So because I'm white and *hopefully* the officers will see me as *white*, not a given, btw, especially amongst more intelligent officers, then I'd rather see the police calling the shots especially if $$$'s aren't dangled before their eyes corrupting them. No, I'm not "guilty" of violating the one drop rule----the rule that makes a white a black if there is a trace of negro blood.
Getting a break from cop---innocent or guilty is not nearly as sure because the courts have tended to corrupt their way of thinking and their respect for human dignity and safety as well as good versus evil.
discussion comment
16 years ago
I sorta feel sorry for shadowcat assuming he is for real. He thinks he is this sweetheart in person and yet on the discussion board he comes across in a very negative light. I keep repeating to myself about walking a mile in his shoes and then maybe I could see where he is coming from.
The BEST dancers that I knew would try help even the most abusive deranged customers. I'd see that and think that dancer is a hell of a lot stronger than me. I asked one what the reward is and she says I hope to make him feel at least a little better; I wouldn't want to walk in his shoes. I doubt she ever made it given her lack of a basic education, but her dream was to be a nurse or teacher. A very kind hearted person. :)