Silly Stripper Solutions??? . . . Bimbo Believers . . .

Dont forget Jimmy Swagert(sp?) perfect example!!

Like I said before ATM

Well there are just too many. Even better was Kool Aid Preacher in Guyana with the alliterative moniker: Jim Jones. He worked those hoes all day and all night. I'd read as many as 16 a day---YAY. :)

It's all about the $$$??? More true, imo, it's all about the mack. To wit, a link about mackin books for your further consideration: amazon.com and see what else customers who purchased this book also bought.

"Like I said before ATM"

Thinking like the logical square and that is smarter for your bottom line, imo. Meaning you don't want NO hoe bringing you home her pussy and her money for your pleasure. Better to be a wage slave or better still secure a SGS i.d. sweet gubmint sinecure.

David1999 brought up the all important seed spreading syzygy and I think mackin is part of that whole allure of the manly male with bitches aplenty. Now gentleman Horndog Vibe . . . hmmm, think mo like a rapper crooning Katch a Kop, Kill a Kop, KKK Kop Killers!!! Dey B woe4 em Kootchies Krave. Yes, don't have to make a lot of cents or bills. I just know what I see. Royalty, the dancer from Angels, was the most adorable little rapper hanger-onner. I wish I bought a few of the videos she starred in.

Need futher proof of illogic and insanity? Royalty was SUNFIRE HOT and you know what these rappers wanted??? WHALE BLUBBER!!!

jablake lol

okay, I give up. Maybe it's just been a long day or maybe I've just had too much to drink tonight but "what the hell are you saying?" I usually follow you with no problem but not tonight. One of us is off...

I'm watching these dancers at the cheap clubs and their values or what turns them on seems so DIFFERENT. It is like the difference between the all white Angels and the all black Coco's many years back. You'd have to see it to believe. One club is loud and dance crazy and the other club has the plug pulled from the juke box to silence it and the dancers' don't dance. (I prefer the silence and NO dancing, btw.) Happy. Sad. Black. White. Pretty. Ugly. It is like a forced duality of opposites.

So, I'm watching these dancers at the cheap clubs and it is DIFFERENT. Gambling dancer is DIFFERENT. The connect-the-dots doesn't really work unless you've seen the culture in action. I'm watching Royalty get into her rapper mode and I can see the heat rising in her just as I could see the heat when Gambling dancer played Suduko and started "winning." The $$$'s? That isn't generating much of anything except compliance with sexual requests. If that is what you want, then there isn't a shortage in Miami.

Now, I don't know much about the expensive $20 dancers and wouldn't have the resources to find out what makes the heat rise for them. Perhaps it is the $$$s. Seems sorta boring, like the clubber just looking for FS or BJ. But, different strokes for different folks.

Pimping, imo, is emotionally draining in the extreme i.e. a super bad deal. Hey, some men don't mind intense real emotions. I prefer fake. :) And, as previousley elaborated on: FREE is a sucker's game.

Okay, sorry. Back on the same page. I won't go in to my discussions on the other thread again but I still think it's a matter of perspective. Whether the emotions are real or fake or real-fake doesn't matter much. I believe the ultimate motivation remains the same. I think that sometimes even the dancers don't know the difference in real or fake. The lie simply becomes a reality indistinguishable from the truth but the real root is always the same. $$$

Many years back, there was this pain in the ass crook over at Angels. First contact might scream for a connect-the-dots type that she was all about the money and nothing else.

She was HOT and a CROOK and AGGRESSIVE---at first. So she cheated me on the number of dances and the contact and even the price! Boy, what a woman. Immediately it becomes clear she is willing to escalate thru the roof. I just wanted to be rid of her so I PAID IN FULL---not like me at all, but I just wanted her gone ASAP and without any arguments.

So, think I'm rid of the asshole? NO. Not so easy. She comes back and wants more dances. Unbelieveable. Worse, she is in my face DEMANDING dances. I basically snap something like GET LOST FAST!!!

Over now? Are you kidding? No, no, no. This bitch wants confrontation and this is after I PAID IN FULL to be rid of her.

FINALLY, she comes back into my face once too often. I EXPLODE. She is scrambling backwards and a very brave friend jumps in my way. I brush her aside like the feather she is and she goes to the ground. The bitch is on the ground shortly thereafter. I tell her she needs to be getting her man so we settle things real proper real quick. She ain't NO in your face bitch any longer. Club security knows me very well and they did nothing. The other dancers did nothing. The poor dancer didn't have a man so that issue could get resolved properly.

The whole game changed. Suddenly on that and many many many other visits I'm all world to her. The money means absolutely nothing. She is available for FREE-----that just ain't a good deal. I can't repeat that often enough. Stay away from FREE. Extreme aggressiveness is what got her panties wet. $$$'s? Please. Even when I'd met her $$$ demands she wasn't even a little happy and if she stole more it is doubtful she'd be happy.

Her idea of a man apparently is someone who will lay down the law and with violence if necessary. That is her aphrodisiac. Now, I was thinking when I threw her to the ground----it was just rage and it could have ended badly. I sure as hell wouldn't advise it---I just wanted her away from me and it turn out that is what she thinks a real man is supposed to be about. A man treats her nice and she'd probably have nothing, but abuse and more abuse for him.

I agree it is a matter of perspective and, imo, most customers have NONE. Too often I see a desperate need for real affection or a hatred against the dancer because the service should be FREE.

The biggest errors of perspective, imo:

1. The idea that she likes you for more than your money.
2. It is all about the money.

Yes, it may seem contradictory. It isn't.

Well I concede that there can, and I stress 'can' be some degree of coexistence but the money motive never goes away. I still disagree on the "free" as in not paying directly as I have had a couple of relatively long term relationships with strippers (OTC) where we were a couple and no money was exchanged. In retrospect however, money or perhaps security were, I believe, the root driving force.

Hi clubman2,

Well, FREE is my own personal dislike and it is a very strong dislike. It doesn't just apply to strippers or women. It is the dislike of the FREE lunch . . . I LOVE a good deal, but too good and the danger Will Robinson warning starts playing and even where there is NO threat the conscience will step in; my idea of right and wrong.

I also am wary of dualistic thinking. For example, the more I learned about Gambling dancer the more I learned that my money was probably a joke to her. To some that would immediately default to she has real affection toward me. It is like there is this EITHER OR that is all controlling. If somehow it would be known for an absolute fact that your money means zero to her, then her motives are real affection. What else could it possible be besides real affection???

GAME? I don't know that and some or probably most would laugh at that suggestion. They know that if they were a woman being intimate and it wasn't about the money, then it would have to be about real affection in at least some guise. People generally have a very bad habit of putting other people in their shoes. Blubber blobs disgust me so therefore all males must be disgusted by blubber blobs or at the very least would prefer a real woman i.e. a hottie.

Those people that I know who are money focused tend to place that focus on other people. They can't or won't comprehend that other person may have very different values. One of the clearest examples that I would see is refusal to sell or do business with blacks. You could talk dollars all day long, but threats of law or loyalty to law would go much further and sometimes it was just dead on arrival. Before doing business with blacks better to take a financial beating rather than be "contaminated" or whatever their thought process happened to be and it could range the gamut.

Do people want to think about the gamut? Not usually. The norm is to simplify. The old one size fits all.

A good brain exercise is to start listing possible reasons for another person's actions. :)

Game Theory.

Your goal is to give away $10,000 in cash to a couple of random strangers that you picked out on Miami Beach. The hitch is they have to agree (assuming they're willing to accept the money) on how to divide the money. Normally, that should be very easy i.e. 50/50 split.

What happens if one of the strangers insists the only fair split is 90/10 in his favor? Does the other person say goody goody I just got a FREE $1,000 for doing nothing? :) I mean that might happen. How about 80/20? Will that get the job done? Heck that is a FREE $2,000 for doing nothing. That might happen. :) Do I hear 60/40?

The normal expectation is that a very strong sense of "social justice" will easily machine gun down desires for FREE money even amongst those who proudly proclaim money to be their God. What is "social justice"? In the FREE money example most people see "social justice" as 50/50 and NOT a nickel less.

Unfortunately I see your money exaple as too simplistic to expalin the more complex aean of human interaction and relationships whatever the nature. We must recognize that there are at least two sets of drivers. First is the animalistic natural need to survive. That includes food, clothing and shelter. For the most part this takes us back to coin of the realm or perhaps barter. Something that can be reduced to monetary value. Once, and only once this survival need is satisfied can the issue of "social justice" really come in to play. This is really get cloudy and where actions can obfuscate reality. "Social Justice" falls in the category of learned or developed values. The source being anyone or all of the authoity figures of our youth to our experiences in life.This constitutes a wide spectrum of human behaviors from the philanthropic to pure greed and all the variables in between. What each gets from these varied views is as diverse as the backgounds and the input recieved over the formative years. Some may view their behaviors towrd others based on the others need and ability to pay. If this takes the form of affection exhibited by Gambling dancer ( and I'm not saying this is the case, just a tangible example)it could stem from a stong sense of empathy. This of course comes with the danger of empathy growing out of control into sympathy which can be an unstable emotion. The opposite extreme would be pure greed where there exists a take no prisioners attitude and they will take all they can get. In both case, as well as all the gradients in between, their is some benefit to the individual that satisfies a base need born of experience, but only after the required monetary need has been satisfied. On the kinder gentler side this fulfillment may compensate for some guilt at being mercenary with others and therefore enable them to continue but viewing the 'good deed' they have done to the 'less fortunate.' These emotions may well be subconscious and so lacking in foethought.

Again, and unfortunately, this is only a thin slice of a very large and complex issue. But in every example I can think of there is at least a dotted line back to money and truth be damned in the process as that is simply a means to an end.

Wow, excuse all the typos. Fingers already started the weekend.

jablake I guess what I'm trying to say is that while trying to list the possible motivations of others is a noble thought, due to the complexity of the human animal the best we may be able to realistily accomplish is to stop trying to shoehorn everyone else into our particular model.

Gambling dancer and empathy aren't 2 words that I'd put together. :) I could be wrong or just too distrustful in general. Because I know what an excellent actress she is and that she is willing to do acting that other dancers refuse----it leaves me taking a very hard look at her. My thinking was that she could do the acting because she lacked emphathy that other dancers seemed to have too much of. OTOH, at a certain point maybe she does have empathy.

I know that I needed the commercial nature of the relationship to continue or I'd become much more sentimental and caring. The money was my life line to keep the fantasy a fantasy.

As far as the dotted line returning back to the money that seems like it could easily disappear once the person feels they're not at risk or hungry for ever more goodies. As soon as I feel more secure the money doesn't mean a whole lot and I will try and help people without expecting anything in return. When financial problems rise up, the game changes. It is easy to imagine some dancers not being concerned about money in part because too often their time horizon is SHORT. Gambling dancer is thinking in terms of only days! It is so hard to understand that type of thinking.

I will add that if the dancer knows that you have money that makes a HUGE difference because often she will see it as simple sharing---not necessarily pay for play. I've never luxuriated in the trappings of wealth---that were mine. If anything looking at my living conditions might bring shock or pity.

"jablake I guess what I'm trying to say is that while trying to list the possible motivations of others is a noble thought, due to the complexity of the human animal the best we may be able to realistily accomplish is to stop trying to shoehorn everyone else into our particular model."

That is the point I was trying to make! :)

Too often I hear customers who are upset that dancers only care about money. Well, yes and no. It is fairly complex. A wealthy buddy is throwing money at dancers and they see him as an ATM and his feelings are hurt?!?

It would have been a stunner if the dancers could see him as anything, but an ATM the way he behaved. Yes, he was nice enough. He didn't value their conversation because as he pointed out he is much more educated and much brighter. Given the way he feels about them, I just thought it was incredible that he expected real affection. Worse----he didn't have any real affection for them! He thinks the money should be the substitute. Anyway, a lot of customer do a lot of crazy thinking that is not going to get them where they like to go.

Anyway, a lot of customers do a lot of crazy thinking that is not going to get them where they'd like to go.

Again, I was not saying that was the case with Gambling dancer but rather the apparent type of relationship as a point of reference. Now I'm worried though, it almost seems that you are beginning to see my point of view. I will say that I don't think that the dotted line ever disappears but simply becomes a little more obscure. I wonder, at what point might the fantasy may become reality but lacking only ones conscious acquiesence to that fact.

"Now I'm worried though, it almost seems that you are beginning to see my point of view."

That is what I was thinking about you! :)

"I will say that I don't think that the dotted line ever disappears but simply becomes a little more obscure."

I guess that is a major difference because I'm not much of a catch money wise. Gambling dancer has real customers and I am as she pointed out a joke when it comes to money. When we first met around 7 years ago she was mainly trying to be rid of me the first day we met! She wasn't interested in $5 dances at least from me and probably not at all.

Also, because I can consider myself a money grubber and yet lose interest quickly when I feel secure it leads me to feel others feel the same way. Also, I see how these dancers react to money over a long period of time and too often it seems like a bottom priority if a priority at all. It is like the dancer who makes her money and then just hangs out the rest of the day shooting the breeze with friends and a few buddy customers.

Where the real mistake, imo, is customers thinking more money is always the answer when that, imo, is a sucker's path (generally) assuming you're looking for real affection.

You have no idea how this hurts but I have to agree, in large measure, with your last observation. Damn, that is scary. Maybe we should switch sides mid-way through our next debate just for fun. lol

I never view some one as an ATM but i wont deny some girls do Do you guys prefer that????

Sounds like fun. :)

Hell no - I prefer to be seen as a person but that just doesn't happen imho

Hi wondergrl5,

If I can comfortably meet her financial demands, then it is fine for her to view me as an ATM. :) (Unfortunately, that seems rarely to be the case that I have enough money.) What I look for is the dancer who is willing to provide a wonderful fake GFE e.g. it seems completely real and is emotionally intense plus her having advanced skill just is too GOOD. :)

jab I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye on this but that's ok, I respect a well founded and deeply felt opinion

and WG, where did you drop in from hello

clubman-drop in from?

just a question about the previous posts

I WANT to be conned. Unlike the PLs, it isn't a negative in the least, but a testament to her skills and it feels like Heaven. The problem is most dancers that I meet even if capable won't do it and or won't do it over the long term. Usually, it isn't worth the hassle if it turns out the customer is actually just a PL who only thought he wanted a fake GFE. Or, the dancer may be concerned about her own emotional well being. Lots of different points.

seems like a weird gamble (no pun) for physical affection. Do you like that game? If not why not buy a pro?

"jab I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye on this but that's ok, I respect a well founded and deeply felt opinion"

Maybe if you spent some time in the slum drug houses. :) At the cheap clubs, I saw an overlap of culture where money has a fairly low value. A value that can even disappear assuming you'd be strange enough to want to take that path.

so you prefer the crappy places????

WG I ment that you let jab and me go through this, twice now, without bringing any of your sage wisdom till we about ran out of steam lol

jab, I hate to tell you but I've have experienced both ends of the spetrum and on some level see positives to both

"seems like a weird gamble (no pun) for physical affection. Do you like that game? If not why not buy a pro?"

I prefer a sure thing and the game doesn't do diddle for me. I'm the exact opposite of Gambling dancer in that regard. She loves the game and loves competition.

The reason I buy a pro is because the culture here in the U.S. is very wrong for me. For example, until just recently fathers here in Florida were sent to jail repeatedly because they were unable or unwilling to pay for children that were conceived by their wife cheating with another man. In theory, if a man is unable to pay then he can escape jail, but the courts generally play a very dirty game. At one point the courts were proudly yapping the man had to prove he didn't have any money and NO proof was ever good enough because maybe he had a Swiss bank account. Anyway, that is just one example.

If she ain't willing to take $$$, then I've got NO interest in sexual fun with her AT ALL.

I have to 3 jobs man. I go online when im off.

"so you prefer the crappy places????"

Could be. I just don't know for sure because I can't really afford the expensive places. If I had money, then it is very possible I would still prefer crappy places. Sometimes, you just don't know till the door opens and you get a real opportunity.

Hey wondergrl, I was just joking.

"jab, I hate to tell you but I've have experienced both ends of the spetrum and on some level see positives to both"

Then you should have met the druggies who have NO real interest in money. And, if you met those "special" druggies the next step is to see similar personality traits in the dancers that work at the cheap clubs. Further, it shouldn't be that hard to play the role of loser boyfriend. I could easily fit right in there. My friend was a pimp--a nasty violent pimp--- and also I experienced prostitution culture, low end mainly, while growing up. It is just a issue, imo, of knowing the culture. Now, I should say that the prositution culture I knew growing up didn't have blacks. The blacks had a separated and different culture. Still, with the "low" class background being the loser boyfriend shouldn't be difficult at all for black or white women assuming you'd want that.

So by crappy you mean latent drug users are prevalent? "it shouldn't be that hard to play the role of loser boyfriend. I could easily fit right in there" Is that your mark of choice? Or is that not how you see it? "The blacks had a separated and different culture. Still, with the "low" class background being the loser boyfriend shouldn't be difficult at all for black or white women assuming you'd want that."

Meaning the drug use is prevalent to race social status what? And do you LOOK for those types? If you do are they ROB'S cause they are feeding a habit?

By crappy I mean the prices are CHEAP and the furnishing are usually beaten to a pulp almost immediately. I try to avoid the drug culture in my old age solely due to fear of arrest for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

At Angels, I'm generally seen as a very strange white old man. In my younger days those women that were attracted to me were generally "low" class like me. However, I also had experience living on millionaire's row. :) Predominately, I was from skid row and a skid row type woman would see that. I had offers to fill the loser boyfriend role, but that is a very bad deal, imo. (I wouldn't want anyone touching my woman.) Even coming from skid row, I believed the man should protect and support the woman and was 100% opposed to any notions of equality.

The blacks were just mind blowing---heck, just being near 'em you wouldn't need any drugs to be transported to a different reality. It was very difficult to understand anything that I saw them doing. And, generally I was viewed as being nasty and insane or at least that is the feedback I was getting. Very different people. The white Angels was perfect except the women were in such bad condition e.g. missing teeth, bad skin, poor shape, etc. The black clubs had all these hot women and it was unbelieveable---it seemed like an endless supply of healthy natural beauty. But dang, those clubs were loud with dancing and all type of behaviour that was upsetting to a young white from skid row from where I was from. Only in desperation for an attractive women did I go there.

The drug houses could be white or black. I didn't have much of a preference except that the police were less hyper if I was in a white drug house so that is where I tended to be. Again, there was a very different culture in the drug houses depending on skin color.

Women from the drug culture are fine-----that is what I was growing up with even if it was just too much drinking. However, I've become more chicken in my old age so I really try to avoid being in a situation where drugs are too prevelant----some cops lose all their good sense once drugs are even mentioned.

IF I was truly free to choose, then I'd probably be looking for a young woman from the drug culture---black or white. Generally, being a ROB didn't seem too dependant on drug use and there are ROBs and then there are ROBs. There is a game played at the cheap clubs with stop, cut and mix the song so the dancer can overcount---I view that game very differently than a ROB who tries to change prices or "cheats" on service. An ideal which surprisingly I didn't get to enjoy too often was the working woman that enjoyed selling/sharing herself when she was having a good high. That was pure pleasure to gather in her wonderful real feelings. :)

Jefferson is rolling over kn his grave and the black woman is on top ha ha ha

jablake- i saw a movie once and they called "white" women the "black" mans kryptonite So it works in reverse??????

Damn, after all these years and jeff's still got the slave woman doing all the work.

Hi wondergrl5,

I don't think so or at least I was determined NOT to be a total victim. :) You give an inch and before you know it the woman will have you in bra and panties; especially, in that I liked seeing the same women again and again and again.

HUH YOU in a BRA AND PANTIES??????????????

damn boy you a freak kudos

go jablake!!!!!

aha! This sheds a whole new light on Gambling dancer's behavior.

LOL! :)

Gambling dancer's seeming absence of empathy really struck paydirt with me. On my mother's side of the family that was one of the most notable traits: zero empathy. Perhaps due to that there was a tremendous effort to brainwash the children to walk in the other person's shoes. That became a top core value for me. I still remember the disgust I felt when the judge said we weren't allowed to put ourselves in the defendant's shoes. Seemed like the court was 100% evil. :(

Anyway, her lack of empathy made her seem like family and like other people that I'd grown up with. So the comfort level was high. Funny, the lack of empathy is a trait that I dislike and yet on some level comfort was more important.

I wanted them to have empathy---I had heard the endless repetition that it was good. Unfortunately I also saw the benefits of having zero empathy. So, there is a real trade off.

Interesting. Again I am simply throwing out a thought for consideration but I submit that the pervieved lack of empathy may in fact have been finely tuned empathy. Let's assume for amoment that she read your somewht conflicted views on empathy and ths predented herself in that non-empathetic manner because she knew the effect it would have on you. Remember, empathy is more than just being able to walk a mile in another's shoes without feeling the pinch. It is a guidance mechanism that allows you to read and understand others so as to guide your own behavior in dealing with them. Just a thought.

Very interesting thought. :) I don't think that was the case for a few reasons. Looking at her interactions with her family I saw the same lack of empathy. Yes, she could just like anyone else have a messed up family that was just beyond the pail. Also, OTC she acted like a very different person. Yes, that could also be an act, but not so pleasing. Keep the ITC persona and forget about the more real OTC one. :) Her natural speech---around family and friends and me OTC is harsh and grating to my ears and filled with slang and even without the slang she'd be difficult to understand. A compromise for OTC with me was that she'd keep her normal speech, but clean it to the point where I could understand what she was saying. Still very harsh and some slang, but at least communication was possible. Now, the club voice was mellifluous (yes, I knew or at least I believed that was just for whites or public areas of the club so OTC it shouldn't have come as such a shock; it was). Also, her words were articulated and there wasn't any slang or at least black slang.

Just a thought. Empathy or the ability to read the subtle cues and clues of others and then act accordingly is a key ingredient of really good salespeople as well as leaders and I can see it's application in her case. Again it was just a thought

"American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This em·pa·thy Audio Help (ěm'pə-thē) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity."

Yes, I can definitely see where you are coming from. And, she does have a very powerful ability to play a pleasing part---but, not out of empathy, imo. I don't see that as "empathy" because there isn't an "indentification with" the person she is interacting with. By "identification with" I'm reading that to mean real feelings and perhaps that is an incorrect reading. I believe it isn't that difficult for most people to see that another person is happy or sad or angry or etc. My mother's people could easily do that. It just had no affect on them; no concern; no compassion; no happiness; no sadness; no etc.

Empathy if it merely means to identify another person's emotions seems fairly empty.

Empathy if it merely means to identify another person's emotions seems fairly empty.

Empathy if it means to identify with another person's emotions seems profound.

Do you see the difference with makes? Or, do you think my understanding of empathy is too specific? Yes, empathy can require the reading of subtle clues, but much more important to me as a morality issue is whether a person can identify with other people's feelings; not merely identify other people's feelings.

Also, when Gambling dancer got angry with me about giving an allegedly pregnant dancer (she was turned out to pregnant, btw) a small amount of assistance, she claimed it was because I was being tricked. But, tricked or not helping a pregnant dancer doesn't sit well by her AT ALL. Now, my spending money buying dances on other dancers doesn't seem to bother her at all and in fact, I think she likes that unless they're on her bad list.

Both are actually correct, the variable being the strength or depth of that empathy. Many people can identify the clues, this can be to some degree learned but the subconscious identification and understaanding of those clues is true empathy. That understanding and subsequent actions constitute the guidance system I mentioned. Where most people make a mistake in thinking of empathy is seeing it as sympathy, always a danger with highly empathetic people and can be a very fine line.

I don't necessarily see it as sympathy . . . it is attempting to put yourself in their shoes and feel what they feel. It is identifying with them.

I wouldn't see the detection system as empathy at all. Like I said my mother's people could detect the emotion of others, but there was no identification with those emotions. Very positive in the sense that if you need warriors they wouldn't indentify with their victims in the least; yes, they'd be able to identify different emotional states including extreme suffering . . . but, I would have assumed 99% of humans could do that. And, I'm not even talking about sympathy---which, they didn't have that either. They have their special traits and good points, but sympathy not likely and empathy not likely. What I found interesting was how focused they were on attempting to teach their children empathy. Of course, the children were still expected to "get the job" done when necessary----you don't want to be weak. Gambling dancer has that same dislike for weak and perhaps more intensified.

So, Gambling dancer has an extremely developed ability to identify other people's emotions. But, then that doesn't mean much to me . . . it is like the dancers being able to detect that I'm depressed---probably a 99 out of a 100 would do that with ease. Or, if I was angry the same 99 out of a 100 should be able to pick up on that. Yes, I can see a value when dealing with people who hide their emotions, but because of my culture her advanced detection of emotions means very little to nothing to me. Now, her lack of empathy---the ability to identify with others is very interesting in that to me it appeared fairly extreme. My thinking is that is why she was able to offer GFE for so many years as if it was nothing.

Replace emotions with motivations, needs, and other driving forces. Empathy is not about emotion. That's easy to see. But if you look at emotions, apply it what is deep behind them not the surface cause.

For example, let's say a machine could be built that could determine a person's emotional state by scanning his brain. The machine might be able to detect sexual arousal, anger, happiness, amusement, depression, grief, and depending on how the brain represents these emotion and the sophistication of the machine you might have a very good emotions identifier and detector.

However, the machine wouldn't be capable of identifying with these emotions. Similarly, a person could be just as good as the machine or even better, but it wouldn't mean the person has empathy. Normally, I would think excellent detection of emotions would go hand in hand with empathy. And, it needn't be sympathy---A person could detect happiness and identify with that happiness and become happy for that person; it is the identification with that is all important to me.

"Empathy is not about emotion."

Empathy isn't always about emotion in a very strict sense, but unless you are talking about absence of emotion it is about identifying with which almost incorporates emotions. :) You may identify with a person attempting to win a world record. You may identify with the crook that steals to steal. You may identify with a person who is deeply religious. You may identify with a person who gambles on sports.

Correction:

Empathy isn't always about emotion in a very strict sense, but unless you are talking about absence of emotion it is about identifying with which almost always incorporates emotions. :)

Trying to have empathy for someone who loves the taste of liver (disgusting to point of vomiting to me) is very difficult for me because it is difficult to imagine what that person is feeling. I'd probably try and imagine eating a steak (I love steak) and then think maybe that is what the person is feeling. And, what are they feeling? A pleasant smell. A nice texture on the tongue. A nice workout for the teeth. Juice spilling into their mouth. It is difficult to say because I don't have their taste buds. I LOVE peanuts and my neighbor hates 'em. How could anyone hate peanuts!? :)

Okay, you need to stop thinking of empathy in the narrow context of emotion. Think rather of the rot cause of why people act or react the way they do, and that does include emotional reactions. But in a broader sense, why is having a fancy car important. Is that something that makes them feel important and if so why. Why is that the thing that works for thwm. Why won't an individual make a change in their company logo but won't say that that is the problem with makiing a merger deal that in all other respects they are in favor of. What is behind their actions, judgements, decisions,etc. Emotion is only one of the things to be considered. It is in the the result of experiences that cause people to display various emotions to different stimuli. What are they? Sorry I seem to be having difficulty in positioning empathy today. I do it much better in speeches.

I realize emotion is only one of the cosiderations to placing oneself in the shoes of another i.e. empathy. For example, why did the thief steal the car? Could be any number of reasons. The emotions he felt could run the gamut. If I could identify the reasons and if I could identify his emotions, then I might be able to identify with his feelings, thoughts, and or attitudes.

So, let's say I correctly identified that the thief was happy about stealing the car and getting caught. I've merely identified emotional states. Let's say I correctly identify that his thoughts are basically that stealing cars takes bravery and intelligence and accomplishes an important goal of redistribution of wealth. I further correctly identify that his attitude about the whole situation is that it is a big joke and that he is a hero. Thus far, I've done a lot of correct identifying about his feelings, thoughts, and attitudes. However, this doesn't mean I'm capable of identifying with these feelings, thoughts, and attitudes, in the least. I might be a law and order nut job. I might be a religious nut job. I may have an IQ of 100. To actually try and identify with him even if we shared similar life experiences and upbringing may be very difficult. It is just not that easy unless you put him into your shoes, which is what people do all the time when they think they're empathizing!

I knew this lady who insisted the reason men wanted an attractive woman was only so they could have a "trophy" and that looks aren't important as long as the woman is average. I've met men who indeed seem solely interested in the "trophy" aspect of having an attractive women. For their own pleasure they could be screwing a pig with with pus spewing boils. It is difficult to understand, but for them looks aren't important as far as achieving sexual gratification.

Sometimes one of these "trophy" men will attempt to insist that I actually feel the same way and they feel. Actually, I rather keep my woman under wraps from prying eyes. I don't need to be showing her off to anyone, but me! :) And, I get very excited again and again by certain looks. The "trophy" men just don't seem to be able to understand that----the purpose of a good looking woman in their mind is solely for show-----fucking is completely different and any mutt will do. Do I have empathy for the "trophy" men?-----that is just very difficult for me to identify with. Any part of it. I don't want to be showing off my woman no matter how hot. I don't want other men drooling over her. I don't want or seek esteem from having a hot woman. Mainly, I want her in my home with skimpy to NO clothing and readily available for slow action. These "trophy" it is difficult to see things their way; in fact, it is distasteful!

Anyway, the lady was like a broken record about beauty being just about wanting a "trophy" to show off. She was impervious to other points of view on this issue; all men had to feel the same way. She was a total dog, btw.

The question then, and where empathy comes in, is knowing and/or understanding why she felt the way she does. In that way you are able to deal with her and perhaps even move her point of view. It's a matter of relating/understanding where she is comming from. Same with the guys who need a trophy wife. Why?Stature in others eyes? A sense of accomplisment? A sense of self woth? Is it because in other areas they are and/or have been second rate? Why is it important. To be able to read these without just accepting their explanation at face value is the application of true empathy.

Well, she gave me reasons over a period of time that made sense to me. First off, they're grown men and she shouldn't have to treat them like children. Secondly, she doesn't see them being truly concerned about her so why should she be concerned about them. Third, life is rough and everyone has their own weaknesses. Fourth, kill or be killed. Fifth, it is a game and she plays to win.

However, probably any dancer could give those similar reasons and yet their emotional state is very different. In my experience neither dancers nor prostitutes in general are willing to provide GFEs (especially long term) and many will react that you need a girlfriend for that.

Also, her harshness against those that need a little assistance is striking. I understand she doesn't like weakness and that she sees giving as a form of weakness. She was also upset that I'd become softer in my old age---again the dislike for weakness. Surprisingly, I didn't experience a negative from her regarding my weakening health----perhaps cause after all the weakening I may still be stronger than her. ;)

Anyway, she is a real pro in skill level and the FREE game is one that I have NO interest in. And, it probably isn't a game that I'd play very well.

Her younger sister seems to have a good amount of empathy and wants to help people. I asked amount her sister becoming a stripper and she shakes her head NO that the girl isn't tough enough and doesn't enjoy competitive games. And, that she is just a lot different than her sister; she's more wild and aggressive and willing to play roles.

Her sister is over 18 and in low paying jobs so for better or worse she might try and follow her older sister's footsteps. I don't see her capable of providing GFE at all---hardcore, maybe.

Correction:

I asked about her sister becoming a stripper