Strippers as Sexual Surrogates?

Correction:

All they need is a doctor spitting out prescriptions. :)

There is, however, one major disconnect with that analogy, unlike most strippers I don't think the surrogats were looking at the 'patient' and seeing ATM on their forehead.

I would disagree. The ecdysiasts that I enjoy are much more eleemosynary than "health care" professionals in my experience; and much more affordable---assuming government ain't paying your health care bills. What can I say? The benefits of cheap dives are just never ending. :)

Damn jablake, are you reading the dictionary again. I can save you alot of reading, the cast of characters is great but the plot sucks. :)

LOL! :) Reading multiple dictionaries is always good fun; praise the internet and amazon.com (easy to find and buy books cheap).

Actually, I've been trying to use the eleemosynary for over FIVE brutal years. Its potential alliteration with ecdysiast got my hopes raised and then I said what the hell use it or lose it. :)

Correction:

Actually, I've been trying to use the word eleemosynary for over FIVE brutal years. Its potential alliteration with ecdysiast got my hopes raised and then I said what the hell use it or lose it. :)

lol Couldn't help but take note. Good job.

I remember the word from college days (35yrs. ago) but remembered it as elEOmosynary but I have never been a good speller so I will defer to Jablake on it. It is nice to see it used in the context of strippers but I can't honestly say I remember what it means and at this late hour I am too lazy to look it up. Wouldn't mind a sexual surrogate once in a while, though.

My spelling ain't so hot! :) It means charitable and at the cheaps dives dancers do eleemosynary work more often than not, imo.

My spelling ain't so hot neither! :) It means charitable and at the cheap dives dancers do eleemosynary work more often than not, imo.

That may be true but the reality is they do it so you keep coming back and they still get you money but maybe a little slower so you don't notice it as much. Still reading ATM. Don't know of any that can file Non-Profit Tax Exempt status. It's like Target and Maceys

"Still reading ATM."

A huge misconception, imo. It is like the story I heard about Thomas Jefferson: He goes to France and is stunned that blacks seem like people! In his world the slaves are shockingly different and he regarded them as a form of livestock without guilt. It was self-evident that they were mentally inferior and needed a master. His whole world experienced an earthquake because what he knew to be truth and reality from his firsthand experience was DEAD WRONG! He was enslaving people who were far more like him than he could have imagined and suddenly there were moral issues for him.

Thus, witness the loser boyfriend phenomena. Many of these dancers have very little interest in money. When a customer sees all dancers thru the lens of "middle class or upper class" values he may be distorting the reality of the vision to a point it bears little relationship to the actual reality. :)

My experience is cheap dives in northern Miami-Dade County. Some of the "lower class" values in those clubs are often incomprehensible to a person from a different environment. It seems like you almost have to live it to have a real understanding.

Yes, some dancers would definitely label me a "loser" and that is a positive in their mind! Either because I'm part of a similar culture i.e. poor or because of their mothering instincts. Of course, with aging the game changes for the worst, ime.

Anyway, you opined that most surrogates weren't seeing ATM and from my experience with other "health care" practioners I would take that opinion with a mine full of salt. The strippers that I've known over many decades often are more caring than those in occupations that are considered---often wrongly---to be nurturing or above the baseness of the dollar.

The surrogate in the story charges almost $200 per hour!!! The strippers that I know work CHEAP!!! :)

Perhaps it's a function of perspective. I have, whether for good or ill, had the opportunity to see the dancers from both perspectives and have always prided myself on seeing them as just another human being and not a "stripper" and thus avoided the sterotypical view. And yes, in some ways some of them can appear nuturing and caring but, I believe that in the final analysis that is what keeps the ATM returning. I have had some good relationships with some of them over the years but when I sit back and reflect, it all comes down to the same thing. $$$$$

As to comparative cost, I think that when you add up all the cost for the club experience,drinks, cover, dances, 'tips' etc. the $200 may be cheap. And remember, in the club it is a parade of ATMs. But I do agree, many of the health care workers, particularly as you move up the food chain, are dollar whores.

Hi clubman2,

I go to $5 clubs and I'm a $5 customer----the $200 IS extremely EXPENSIVE. There is a bogus test that if you cut the stripper off financially, then you can tell her true feelings. Assume this test was valid. Big deal; I go to the club spending hours upon as hours as normal and the dancers treat me as well as ever----I sure as heck, don't want their offers of FREE dances or for them to waste their valuable time if a paying customer is around.

Does this prove anything? Not really----perhaps they're counting on my return to financial health. So why do I mention it? While not proof it is probative when you also add the stripper's personal interests and how she chooses to spend her time. Gee, she wants to be a real girlfriend and eliminate all money transactions. Does that prove anything? Not really. I would look a hell of a lot deeper and I sure as HELL wouldn't want a FREE relationship with any woman; that destroys the value, imo.

Growing up I got to see hoes in action and generally their customers are "so stupid" it is depressing, assuming all manner of nonsense which may even seem logical, but it ain't the reality. For example, my friend's woman worked as a higher end prostitute and stripper therefore to some she should be about the $$$. Well, wealthy customers kept assuming they could buy her-----and, it is just so stupid. They need to be living in her pad for a while to get a much more real understanding of who she is. Hint: she ain't about $$$ even in the least.

Lastly, think: Kathy Willets. A famous prostitute here in South Florida. Surprise, surprise, she didn't even charge all of her customers and some she charged thru the nose and not because she didn't care for them. Bottom line, I think people will believe those stereotypes that are lodged in their mind and changing 'em, especially a "bad" stereotype, is usually a herculean effort even where there is a mountain of facts in opposition.

Gambling dancer is a stripper/prostitute who claims to be all about the money. You want to get her panties wet? Hint: It ain't about paying her lots of money or even a little money.

She made some claims about being a high end prostitute who was merely slumming at Angels. To my great surprise I believe she told the truth. Anyway, she is staying at my home for a few days and she had hocked all her junk to a pawnshop and is paying month after month 20 percent interest PER MONTH--- TWENTY PERCENT INTEREST PER MONTH. Where the heck did all the money go when her interest in drugs is zero to none?! Gambling. OK, neat.

Gambling. And, she does this gambling for LOVE of $$$? Could be, but I don't think so. One "test" that I devised while she was staying with me was to teach her different games like Suduko. At first she got all upset claiming you have to be super bright to play Suduko, blah, blah, blah, . . .

Damn that girl LOVES playing Suduko and she even, to my surprise, enjoyed learning how to play. The biggest problem was overcoming her initial tantrum and closed mind.

I showed and taught her other games---yes, she was sorta stuck at the house and NO she wasn't interested in servicing me non-stop sexually. Television? Please. So watching her play these games and get all heated up, imo, the gambling isn't for her about greed or $$$; it's a lot more complex. Besides as a high end hooker she was very capable as she put it of making more money than she knew how to spend. She didn't consider gambling to be spending; more like losing money because there was nothing else to spend money on. How much food is she going to eat? How many outfits does she need? How big a home does she need? Please try and remember this young lady was from the "hood" so the $$$ seemed beyond belief. From NO money to money raining from the sky.

The Suduko was something special for her. :) She taught her sister and tried to teach her mom and she was even trying to teach a couple of her dancer buddies.

It is surprising sometimes what can make a positive impact. Her self-esteem just shot thru the roof because she could play and "win" this number "brain" game and those who she knew were very impressed.

She sounds like an exceptional individual. Unfortunately they are few and far between and either leave the game because some fortunate guy took them away from it all or they realized how much potential they really had and that this was, in the scheme of things, a relatively short term source of good money. Like a pro athelete.

Hi clubman2,

I think it was the environment of club that played a large role: Nice and quite. Comfortable couches. Dirt cheap prices. Combine and you have an environment that generates conditions favorable to conversation and repeat business. Repeat business and conversation lead to the dancers have more of a vested interest in the club. Gambling dancer made that point and other dancers were certainly aware of it.

So, I'm spending a lot of time and not putting pressure on the dancers for a relationship---in fact, they know that I don't want that--and my sexual demands are softcore which is important in that it fairly drawn out compared generally to the customer that wants hardcore. Probably the most stressful thing that I do from the dancers' perspective is attempt to buy the GFE. Most just aren't willing to sell that for many reasons or if they do sell don't last long.

REAL AFFECTION. Apparently some customers desperately need that and that seems more like sexual surrogate work than prostitution.

FAKE AFFECTION. That is what I need. The fantastic performance where it seems real. The dancer can actively dislike me, but the acting ability and skill needs to be there.

SEXUAL SURROGATE. I would see that as a healer who can help men that have problems connecting with the opposite sex. Probably the typical stripper would rather run from this situation because the customer too easily becomes attached or thinks the stripper is for sale for the $$$.

REAL AFFECTION. Apparently some customers desperately need that and that seems more like sexual surrogate work than prostitution or stripping!

While it may be perceived differently by various customers, I see a very fine, blurry dotted line, if any, from the ladies perspective. Although you make a good argument I must say that my original opinion holds. Af course you know what they say about opinions,...

Is anyone besides Jab, Club, and me still reading this thread? This is QUITE a thread. THANK YOU, GUYS. A thread like this more than makes up for the Parodyman rant and the Njscfan sermon.

I had never heard of Kathy Willets, but the Wikipedia entry on her and her husband and their career trajectory WAS A HOOT. Never would have known about that if I hadn't read this thread.

Now for my little contribution: FAKE AFFECTION is what it is all about. There is a famous saying, one variation of which is, "The key to success is sincerity. Once you learn how to fake that, ya got it made." And that is the truth. I think fake affection can be practiced to the point that for all practical purposes it IS THE REAL THING. I think well executed fake affection is what holds a lot of marriages together and helps both partners survive the rigors of reality.

Many many years ago, I met a perfect 10 over at Coco's and the timing was perfect: The wonderful dancer that I'd been seeing regularly for almost a year over at Angels had made two nasty decisions. First, she wasn't going to accept money from me. Second, she wanted me to get her pregnant and she even wanted to go to a doctor of my choosing to prove she wasn't already pregnant. I don't want FREE and I don't want to start a family. Bottom line, I left Angels until she was willing to come to her senses! She never did and the story got more depressing. :(

Back to Coco's now that I've been run off from my own club: So this perfect 10 is very unusual in that she gives a certain number of identical dances. Thusly, dance 1 is different from dance 2 is different from dance 3 and so on, until a certain point where the pattern repeats! :) I would get either 4 or 8 dances every visit depending on my budget for that night. Everytime, would be a repetition of previous times. I just LOVED IT! :) One time she commented that she was sure that I would have been bored long ago because at some point I sure have realized that her dances were identical to previous dances. I explained that I recognized that very early. She says and you kept buying?! She thought that was very strange. I enjoy seeing the same dancer over and over and also enjoy the same dances over and over. :) Unfortunately, I've met almost NO dancers who give identical sets of dances like that over time.

Anyway, I tried to get her to sell fake affection---a sexual surrogacy of sorts. She basically said NO WAY JOSE!!! When I asked why her answer seemed stupid and strange. She explained that I wasn't her type in the least: too short, wrong color, too intelligent, blah, blah, blah. I never realized she had a never ending list of qualities and that I didn't pass inspection of any of them. It was actually nice to hear this never ending list, but I wanted her to get to the main point.

The main point was that she believed that if she started acting as a favor or to keep my business, then she would start to believe the act herself! And, she didn't want to fall for me. I said that is CRAZY because you just recited the longest list ever in history of why you're NOT interested in me!!! Heck, you fail just a little bit short on my short list and I'd be rid of you right quick! She said she understood, but with her it was very different. She knew that if she started acting and got into the role it wouldn't take long before she started believing.

I objected. She responding by complaining that I was way too intelligent and she just didn't trust me AND that I must be aware that the role playing is a trap. She said she just wasn't going to be trapped and she viewed the acting as very dangerous to her. I remind her that I failed on her long long long list. She reiterates that the acting would undermine her list and she would believe her own act! I'm just shaking my head in disbelief. She was a FIRM NO!!! So, I just kept buying her identical dance sets of 4 or 8. :)

Thanks arbeeguy

Great observation on fake affection. It appears to be right on target. Hadn't really thougt about it in that way (marraige) before.

jablake -love the story.

In government education camps men are coerced into confessing that they had NO desire for sex with a prostitute, but rather just wished to demean and dominate women. Even if that were 100% correct that paid sex is always misogynistic that surely ain't correlative that it isn't a healing sexual surrogacy 100% of the time. Hell'n if government's abhorrent absolutism is appropriate the mirror maybe more magnanimous. :)