Never fall for the tricks

If she keeps playing that “buy this first game”, move on to the next one. Plenty of good women out here, don’t be discouraged by the bad ones.

I experienced something very similar. Asked a dancer who I thought might be up for an OTC experience. She said let's talk about what you have in mind. I said O.K. and she then said we'll have privacy in the VIP and we can get to know each other there. I said we can talk here or on the smoking veranda. She looked pissed and walked away.

What the fuck? It sounds like you went into a non-extras club expecting to find escorts waiting around. Even in our extras heavy clubs, the girls don't operate like that. Well, maybe I should say the girls I want don't operate like that. In my experience, girls who want to operate that way aren't working as strippers, they're working ask escorts; typically advertising online in some form or another, perhaps masquerading as sugar babies on those sites. When I run into those girls in the club, I move on as soon as I realize.

Even in our most extras heavy clubs, I wouldn't immediately ask a stripper if she met up outside the club. Much of the value of the stripper/strip club paradigm is that it offers both sides an opportunity to get to know one another first. I almost always offer a dancer I find attractive a drink or a bite to eat, it's one of the lowest cost ways to get to know them. Unless they say or do something remarkably bad, I'll move on to a dance of some sort. Again, unless it's particularly bad, I'll get a couple. Only at that point if we've had a good time would I bring up the topic of exchanging info to meet up again. Often times the initial question revolves around meeting back up at the club, though admittedly its pretty common for meeting up elsewhere to come up at that point. But by then, we've got a feel for if we're a good match personality wise and we've built up a bit of trust.

Sure, I occasionally buy some drinks and dances that you might consider a waste of money. But I don't view it that way. I view it is saving time and money on meeting up with a girl OTC who isn't any fun. Or avoiding a girl who would likely flake on me anyway.

You can view it the way you like, but in this case I can absolutely see why the stripper would react the way she did to your approach. A fair amount of trust on both sides is required for an OTC meeting. Or a lot of risk tolerance, perhaps a level that most would say is reckless. You don't trust her, yet you want her to trust you. A lot of trust can be built on small things ITC. You buy her a drink & she responds with some table side affection. You agree to dance, she gives you a good dance you you pay her afterwords. Within a very short time, you've had a few successful transactions and gotten to know each other. You can then build on that, such that the giant leap to an OTC meetup is more of a small step.

Again, no offense to you. I'm not gonna tell you how to have fun in a strip club. But, consider that people like me exist and the stripper you encountered may not be trying to scam you for cash but rather she may be more comfortable operating in a model similar to what I described.

@Dolfan I didn't include the back story to spare you from reading a screed. I certainly agree immediately asking a stripper is inadvisable and not proper in any type of club. In my experience, we had spent substantial time together and we seemed very compatible. She gave me the vibe she was comfortable being with me, as she would return after going around to the tables. So I thought she might be up for an OTC experience. Her response about a VIP came as a shock. I didn't see the need for having to spend even more money that evening. Reality set in. She knew I was good for the money and she was good at creating a fantasy. She thought I was naive and would go for a VIP. I thought she crossed the line. Once she realized that I wasn't going to spend any more money she got pissed and walked away.

My thoughts were similar to dolfan's. I mean, your point that sometimes the girls string you along -- absolutely right. But to play devil's advocate, it sounds like you established no rapport at all before asking her, and typically only the most escort-y strippers will go for that, IME... the girls who are a little picky for their own safety, won't go for that. And since they know they won't get any $$$ out of you otherwise, sure they'll string you along.

I build a little trust, but I also enjoy the drinks and dances so even if she says no when I eventually ask her, I don't consider it a waste.

Ah your response to dolfan wasn't there when I posted

Yes you guys are correct there is a difference between strippers and hookers. As much as I hate to admit it. I’m so use to the hooker way of just straight up asking “how much for sex” and getting straight to the point, I can see how that might not work with strippers who may see themselves as different or separate from that. I’ve done the hooker route constant of times and how fast and easy it was to get access to sex kind of made me develop that mindset of instant gratification with the least resistance.

I mean I would call a hooker up and this was the exact dialogue: “Hey are you available?”

“Yes baby how much time ?”

“ hh”

“Okay 150 baby”

Sends the location and bam I’m getting sex, but with strippers it’s not as easy. You gotta play the game a little whether you like it or not. I hate it but it is what it is.

Drinks and dances are a waste of money? Bullshit. Sex can be found anywhere. Dances cannot. Everyone does this for different reasons and while its fine to think drinks and dances are stupid, to me, OTC is stupid, and I am being wicked nice when I put it like that.

You know what you’re problem is Mr Monger? Right now you seem like an angry weirdo. Females do not like angry weirdos unless they conform to a certain standard of sexiness. This rick suspects that you do not conform to that standard of sexiness.

Lemme give you some rickvice: find your inner fun-loving weirdo. Then strippers will be all charmed by you and shit. You know who is a fun-loving weirdo? The Stripperlovingape. So you should ask yourself what the Stripperlovingape would do? That may be challenging so I recommend find an alien 👽 mask and a novelty cowboy hat like this one:

windycitynovelties.com

Wear that shit to the club and see how things go for you. Report back with your stories of success. ROAR!!!

Mr. Monger, if you need it quick and cheap, you should definitely stick to STG girls and the high volume brothel clubs.

Picking up low volume strippers for OTC from non-extras clubs is a different game. These girls are usually not working in that type of club by accident. But OTOH, they aren't working as cashiers at Walmart either. They are already removing their clothes and rubbing on guys for a living. They just don't want to think of themselves as outright hookers. Plenty of these girls will do OTC opportunistically if conditions align (comfort, money, etc.).

But fishing for these girls is a different game. It requires that you be able to enjoy other things in clubs. For guys like Dolfan and Subraman, that's dances and drinks. For me it's drinks and barside entertainment, which I tip well for. This also provides plenty of time for rapport building.

It also requires that you be able to: (1) talk with these girls like a human being; (2) have the budget to play a longer game and pay the higher OTC freight that these girls want; (3) be OK with playing a time and patience game, including being OK with striking out; and (4) be able to realistically assess early on whether a girl is a real prospect or if it will likely never happen.

I usually have a few girls in various parts of the pipeline at one time, including at least one active one and a couple of developing prospects. But again, this requires a budget that includes club fishing activities.

But the second you went directly at this girl with "do you do meetups" it was pretty much a guarantee that, even if she did, she was never going to do it with you. From there the stringalong was almost inevitable, lol.

@Wisetoo, my response was more targeted at OP

As far as your specific scenario, I still don't know enough to make an educated judgement. Like Subra said, the basic premise that some strippers will string you along is absolutely true. My point is that there is a bit of give and take, customers also string dancers along. And both do worse to each other. Both sides develop some instincts for finding compatible partners and moving on from relationships they see as having no future. It's an art, not a science. Success rates will not be 100%, both sides will waste some time and both sides will pass on what could have been mutually beneficial arrangements sometimes.

Or in a much shorter way, I don't think treating strippers like escorts is likely to yield positive results. They are not the same.

Ski's point that drinks and dances have entertainment value in and of themselves is also valid. I certainly go to strip clubs and partake of those activities for their own merit. I disagree that OTC is stupid, but again agree with his other point that everyone does this for their own reasons.

and back to @OP, it's not about being easy vs difficult. They're different things, while there is some overlap, it's nowhere near 100%. Escorts, as you mention, are very focused on sex. With strippers on the other hand, sex is generally a smaller portion of their job. For many, it might not be part of it at all. Even for the strippers who offer sex, they usually prefer it in the club. That's why they are there. If the type of interaction you're seeking is what you describe, stick with escorts. Or you could try ITC in an extras heavy club. If you really want to get down to business, you could walk into some of the clubs around here and have a conversation like:

You: "Hi, will you do a room for $200" Her: "okay, you pay $25/50/75 to club too" the number will depend which club you are at.

Most of the clubs will have a group of girls sitting at a table you see as soon as you walk in. If you like one of em, you could be having sex literally less than 5 minutes from the time you pulled into the parking lot. If you liked her and wanted to see her again, you could probably come back the next day and the conversation would be trimmed down to "hi, you ready?" "yes" and you'd be getting down with less than 5 words and under 2 minutes.

But, you walked up and asked that same girl for her number to meet you OTC the first time you saw her, then she's gonna roll her eyes and say something in Spanish that will cause the other girls to laugh. Again, once you've seen her a few times ITC, it might be a very different story.

mr. Monger. welcome to the Game.
you’re not in stripper 101 anymore obviously. you are in stripper 301.

this is one of the reasons I like tijuana.

@rickdugan yeah that’s makes sense. I think I just want it too easy and i understand outside of hookers and extra heavy clubs it’s just no possible. Like going to an Italian restaurant looking for Chinese food.

@Dolfan that’s what I’m looking for spot on. If you look through my reports I usually only frequent extras heavy clubs because that’s what I’m use to and seeking out. But at non extras clubs is a whole different vibe and realm. Even like you say that some dancers will do otc if they vibe is right but it’s still a gamble. It’s never guaranteed like hookers/extra heavy clubs and that’s just the truth. Great analysis !

There’s good strippers out there, and there’s bad ones! Focus on the good ones!

"It also requires that you be able to: (1) talk with these girls like a human being; (2) have the budget to play a longer game and pay the higher OTC freight that these girls want; (3) be OK with playing a time and patience game, including being OK with striking out; and (4) be able to realistically assess early on whether a girl is a real prospect or if it will likely never happen."

So very wise: ^^ This !!

I agree with a lot of what RickDugan said.

And there are multiple kinds of strippers. Some are focused on volume, and as long as you appear safe, they will meet OTC. Some will just meet with anyone theu think is capable of paying otc, and thats because they have a pimp for security. Some are more selective with who they do otc with, and need to feel safe. A lot of guys exaggerate that category and want to tell themselves theyre special and the only guy the girl is seeing OTC. Or they will tell themselves theyre part of an elite class of men, and that the girl only sees 2 or 3 clients OTC because she is so selective or only sees guys she is attracted to. Its not the reality but some people want to feed their egos. Them seeing you otc is about trust, safety, hygiene.

“have the budget to play a longer game and pay the higher OTC freight that these girls want;”

From my understanding this is not true. From other posters, these girls want $200-$300 for OTC meetups. That is more than what a backpage or STG girl would want, but it is less than what a lot of escorts charge. Additionally with the dancers it will often be per meetup, not priced by the hour. So you may get 2 hours, 3 hours or even an overnight stay, for the $200-$300 whereas an escort wouldnt do it unless she had no pimp, no clients waiting and liked you enough.

The simplest way to deal with it is to see strip clubbing as a hobby and have sex with women to whom you are married or dating.

Never fall for the tricks. And the tricks don't stop even if the stripper agrees to an OTC. I had the experience where the stripper told me for out first meeting we can have a dinner date (no sex). O.K. I'm up for that and see where it goes. If nothing develops, I'm out the cost of a dinner. I'm willing to take that risk. But she, in addition to the dinner, wanted to get paid $400 in advance. She wanted to get paid for doing nothing. The next time she saw me at the club she asked why I didn't follow-up on her offer. I told her I learned I had some last minute obligations I had to take care of.

"This chick really think I’m green"

gee I wonder why she thought that?

1. but then she hits me with “only if you do a dance with me” I said okay fine.
2. "Then she changes it to 3 dances. But I bite the bullet and did the 3 dances"
3. "I asked her if I text her will she text back?"

man up and learn how to say no to girls. they aren't scary. you treat pussy as special, so you come across like a needy weird loser who has to bargain for a fuckin phone number. i don't blame her one bit, she just did what she needed to do with you.

The other dynamic is that how one person approaches a woman does not necessarily translate to another. If one guy is respectful, pleasant and good looking he will have a much different outcome than someone that is abrupt, slovenly or socially inept. Completely obvious I know but one guy’s approach can’t necessarily be replicated by another.

My concern with strippers who “don't want to think of themselves as outright hookers.”, is what other rules and restrictions will they have even if you do get OTC? You can get OTC with them, but will it even be worth it? They may not kiss, they may not do bbbj and only want to do cbj. There may be a whole bunch of things they wont want to do because they “dont want to be hookers”.

By the way, even the words hooker, prostitute, hoe, whore, etc have a stigma attached to them. One aspect is the legal stigma. They dont want you to be openly using that word because it immediately makes the encounter illegal. Even escorts dont like being called prostitutes or hookers.

There is also the social stigma where prostitutes are looked down upon. So, even with actual escorts, most of them dont like being called hoes, hookers, whores etc. its offensive terminology and theyll likely get pissed if you call them that. The whole idea of an escort or even an OTC stripper is your paying her to spend time with you. This of course is something many of them can also use to scam you, and either not provide the time with you or not provide the sex you thought you were getting.

Honestly if you want OTC, don't drop a dime outside of stage tipping.

I've been offered OTC a few times after refusing dances. The girls who are selling OTC will subtlety let you know. The ones who don't aren't worth the hassle.

@james That’s exactly what I do. I don’t even bother with dances as I’m not interested in them at all. Honestly it bores me. I just let them know what I’m looking for and the balls in their court

Icey is just an insane guy, everything in the club being a fantasy doesnt justify scamming behavior , the fantasy element of clubs isnt so literal and technical that dancers can go around scamming then say hey the clubs a fantasy experience