ilbbaicnl - At the time of Trump's forced takeover of Greenland, has Musk already formed his alliance with the Martians and put them in charge of Space-X? It makes a big difference.
APNews is a just a Soros/Global cohort. Trump would only use the military as a last worst to deal with violence like ISIS or Syria when it was dropping barrel bombs indiscriminately on the population. His track record shows he won't "attack" Greenland. However, might make a sweet deal with Greenlanders while a Danish Territory, Greenlanders have zero "love' for the Danes kind if like what "love" we have the for Brits in the 1700s before we booted them out.
Trump and the military on the ME: I'm surprised Trump didn't support action this past weekend when he told Hamas they had a deadline to release hostages by Noon on Saturday. Way more typical than not, once a deadline has passed, Trump takes action. He has already authorized bunker buster bombs to Israel to deal with Iran.
Even if Iran slows or stops their nuke program, they'll just wait it out until the next Dem POTUS/Congress is back. We'll see how sanctions are enforced on Iran. And, if tankers leave Iran what our Navy will do to intercept them. Taking out 1 Iranian oil export port would send a strong message.
Countries that support pirates may be in for some trouble to keep the waterways safer. Nothing sends a clearer message like an AC-130 Spectre Gunship.
Bottomline: Trump would use military as a last resort for hostile actions, and economics to bankrupt a county like Iran or seduce Greenland to become a US Territory.
Stay tuned as our resident MAGA whackjobs call this a deep fake. Or, they'll say it's just a legit negotiating tactic. Under MAGA "morality", murder might be a crime, but robbery isn't. It's A-OK to get what you want by threatening violence.
Greenland is just a tactic to keep Americans distracted from his critical issues, primarily reorganizing government to be a for profit enterprise for the elites. While we drink from his firehose, the strategy is to get what he really wants done, privatization of most government functions, past the public. And with a congress and Supreme Court filled with those more interested in protecting their phony baloney jobs that allow them to rake in millions personally, he is getting it done.
It's interest that participants in the cult of Trump never have any actual arguments to defend dear leader. It's always ad hominem attacks. Cult members suffer from severe cognitive dissonance. Their egos prevent them from admitting they're wrong about anything. The facts prevent them delivering arguments of substance. So what we're left with is just ad hominem bullshit.
Like, we can't trust AP News - one of the most reliable and important media outlets on the plant - but we can trust the words Trump, who has proven to be nothing but a fountain of mendaciousness?
"He's isn't Putin or Hitler." Yeah, OK, then what's with him tweeting "He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.” He's a fucking psychopathic neofascist.
He won't take Greenland by force? Why won't he rule it out then?
@PutaTester may or may not be right that Greenland is just a stratagem to other nefarious ends. I don't know, either way, I'm terrified of this imperial presidency and disgusted at the people who voted for it.
"I'm terrified of this imperial presidency and disgusted at the people who voted for it"
There's always Mexico for ya, sugar tits ;)
I'd say Germany but they're not big on freedom of speech these days.
Keep rage jerking your tiny liberal peckers to him. Whatever makes you feel like you have even a little bit of power over the situation.
Lol it's so funny because anyone here who remotely criticizes trump can guarantee that their post will be met with a "retaliation" post by "Puddy Tat," who comes to trump's defense at all times no matter what, as he has used Gorilla Glue to permanently seal his mouth onto trump's asshole. Puddy (and others) come to trump's defense immediately as if they are trained to do so. I really hope trump is paying him well for all the ass licking and fecal swallowing he does for him. But we all know trump has said himself that he doesn't care about Puddy, he only wants his votes. And we all know trump doesn't pay people, so essenrially Puddy & Co are eating trump's ass for free. Truly astounding to witness.
The idea that Democrats think that Trump doesn't care and that it matters just shows how fucking stupid they all are. I hate Donald Trump. I wish for his time on earth to end. Yet, I prefer himto every democrat, libera, and progressive on earth. Don;t care what he does, because no matter how fucked up, it won;t be as fucked up as anything progressives do. I love the fact they are suffering.
The fact that Trump has not been impeached for threatening to violently steal territory from a friendly country tells us something big about ourselves as a group. We've got no right to "throw the book" at most people in prison. We've proven we as a group think using violence to rob is just a question of whether you can get away with it. Most people in prison are no worse than that. We just need programs to convince them they won't get ahead in life by doing that. Clearly none of MAGA would see anything morally wrong about holding up a local convenience store. But most of them don't actually do it.
Denmark has done zippy-do-da for Greenlanders who prefer to be called Kalaallit (however you pounce it). They are resentful. Making Greenland a Territory would do several things:
Greenland wants independence from Denmark;
Jobs;
Military bases with good paying jobs, China and Russia are becoming a problem in the Arctic that Obama and Biden chose to ignore;
Mining & oil with good paying jobs;
Improved healthcare;
Improved education (once DOEucation DEI/Woke is neutered, and focus back on reading, writing, math, science, accurate history, real education);
Way better trade opportunities;
Opens the door for dual-citizenship like Puerto Rico and others get;
Since they'd be USA, manufacturing products in Greenland would be taxed at 15% (once the dead-ass Congress gets this done);
Obama and Biden (12 years) did all they could to weaken the USA as the dominate super power, and allowed China, Russia and Iran to grow and spread their influence.
Obama did NOTHING to help places like Iranian Green Uprising in 2009 and Arab Spring in 2011. He offered no verbal or UN support, none. Weak ass BITCH that only emboldened radical countries. Same thing as the result of Biden's disastrous bugout of AFG in US history, even worse than being a weak ass BITCH.
This would be a huge benefit to Greenland, and like I said, China and Russia have their sights set to get closer to North America. China's BRI (Belt Road Initiative) has deeply infected Panama and South America (Western Hemisphere), and Africa. Why Jimmy Carter just gave The Canal away was a sign of the USA giving up our global dominance. And the Treaty was never enforced allowing BRI to creep in like a cancer.
Having Greenland as a Territory helps stave off China, at least for now, by supporting the Monroe Doctrine which would bring Greenland into America's western hemisphere to push back on China’s Belt and Road ambitions in the Arctic.
===> "How is Trump going to "seduce" leaders to buy Greenland when all he has done so far is offend and disgust other world leaders?"
@wild4testes, this is not the first time you've claimed to speak for all other countries and world leaders. But let's even assume for a moment that you're correct. Which other country would you prefer that we emulate?
It is long past time that our European "allies" were told how fucking stupid they are behaving. They have spent the last two decades regulating and taxing their economies into perpetual economic stagnation. Their energy grids are becoming both increasingly unreliable and exorbitantly expensive courtesy of their reckless abandonment of reliable energy sources. They have been running unsustainable welfare states, which we have helped subsidize via defense spending and bearing the brunt of R&D expenses for life saving medicines.
But perhaps even worse than the economic pain that they continue to force upon their people, their push to censor people who post opinions that they don't agree with is downright chilling. Police are increasingly targeting people who post "harmful content" in online forums. Heck one instance even included a SWAT team for the heinous crime of online misogyny. Free and open democracies are just not supposed to run like this.
It is long past time that someone call all of this out. To the extent that these European leaders feel disgust for Trump, it is very much misdirected. They should be disgusted by themselves and what they are doing to their countries.
I see @rick has now stooped to name calling, like his MAGA brethren. I thought he was better than them, but maybe not.
While he and mogul seem to have a lot of thoughts about Greenland and Europe in general, I would suggest to them that most Europeans would tell them to mind their own business. European democracies can chose their own destiny and form of government. What some Americans think about it matters little.
Oops. Only 6% of Greenlanders support the idea. There is no chance it will happen. Perhaps if the US had a President that treated others with more respect, that number might be higher.
Greenlanders overwhelmingly oppose becoming part of the United States, poll shows www.reuters.com
@wld - If we have a moral obligation to protect democracy, then advocating freedom of speech in Germany is every bit as pertinent as doing so in Russia or China. Also, Europe does not have the right to "choose their destiny" with American tax dollars. They can defend themselves, and choose between not being overrun by Russia, their green dreams (which are tied together), and their generous welfare states.
We can defend allies that need it, such as those that are surrounded by foes of overwhelming size and strength (Israel, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines, among other). WW2 ended 80 years ago; Europe can put on its big boy pants.
^ Maybe from 6% to 7%. You can fault Trump's approach all you want, but anyone who thinks any president could cajole Greenland into becoming a state is delusional.
Mark Penn @Mark_Penn
Voters are mostly liking what they see in the first month of the new presidency. By 57/43 voters say Trump doing a better job than Biden in advance look at poll coming out Monday.
Job approval at 52 but closing the border, cutting waste are hugely popular. So is resetting merit as the prime hiring and contracting principle.
They don’t agree with everything being done (ie Gulf of America), but overall, people feel much better about the direction of the country and the economy.
Democrats are cratering, down to 36% approval. Schumer’s ratings are a lot lower than Elon Musk. Voters are looking back on Biden presidency and the Dem Party years and scratching their heads on how they tolerated it.
^ All you can do is attack the source. Poll comes out Monday.
I wasn't aware "whining like a bitch" was one of the 5 stages of grieving but you appear stuck there.
^ And I'm sure America's future hinges on a couple points of approval rating in Greenland are the difference between succeeding or failing as a nation.
Good lord you Dems are a bunch of drama queens.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
===> "European democracies can chose their own destiny and form of government. What some Americans think about it matters little."
@wild4testes: Were it only that simple. Like it or not, what happens in Europe matters here too. We do not exist in a vacuum. We have deep social, cultural and economic ties to Europe.
In the most immediate, European countries and Australia have been threatening to pursue legal action against U.S. social media companies for "harmful content" originating outside of their borders. How could these companies realistically enforce this sort of censorship without censoring everyone globally or walling off these countries from the rest of the world? The short answer is that they cannot, which makes it more important than ever that the U.S. get the message across loud and clear that it simply will not tolerate this.
But more broadly speaking, once it becomes acceptable in democratic societies to censor or even arrest people for speaking opposing opinions, it emboldens others who would embrace the same approach. The Biden administration very much tried to emulate this model by privately berating and threatening social media companies to censor "disinformation" and others opinions which they found disagreeable.
Then, once it becomes acceptable to govern under the assumption that your people are just too stupid be allowed unfettered access to competing views, other bad behaviors are just a shoe drop away. Romania, an EU member state, just canceled it's presidential election after voting had already begun, using Russian social media election influence as the excuse.
The reason that Trump is receiving such resounding support from social media companies is because they can see the writing on the wall if this behavior is allowed to take firm root. This is what made Vance's speech both very timely and entirely on point.
^ not interested in debating on the subject
Just one simple point for you
The reason that Trump is receiving such resounding support from social media companies is because they can see the writing on the wall if this
The reason that Trump is receiving such resounding support from social media companies is because they can see the writing on the wall <<<
The writing on the wall says, Trumps the POTUS, we’ll make more money humoring him than wasting energy fighting his agenda.
^ 25, Musk, owner of Twitter, was on the Trump train long before it was known whether Trump would get elected. He was also telling the Biden administration to go pound sand once he took control of Twitter and reinstated a number of accounts, including Trump's.
Zuckerberg, owner of Facebook, was far more cautious when the Biden gestapo was in charge. But since then he has eagerly ditched the hired censors and voluntarily and very publicly shared countless tales of Biden Administration officials threatening his staff when they wanted something removed.
^ it’s all about the Benjamin’s buddy, these billionaires don’t give a fuck, the policies have little impact on them personally, whatever position makes them the most money that’s the position they’ll take.
^ It doesn’t, Dugan seems to be claiming they’re cozying up to Trump because of ideology, or some sort of morality, I’m just pointing out that it’s purely financial, nothing else.
@25: Because they're billionaires means that they don't care about free speech? Not only is that an asinine comment, but it is definitely not born out by Musk's behavior. Having one political party hostile to him is not exactly a winning strategy if money is his only goal. The success of Tesla, Starlink and Twitter all rely upon adoption by a broad swath of people. And Zuckerberg was under no obligation to go so far as to cough up all the Biden Administration abuses - the people behind it haven't gone away and will eventually be in power again.
^ like I said this ain’t up for debate, you’re allowed to be as naive as you like, IDGAF, it’s purely transactional, including Musk, more than 50% of Musk’s financing is taxpayer dollars, Space X, Starlink, The Boring Company, etc…. what do you expect from a purely transactional, self indulgent billionaire like President Trump.
Believe what you like, it doesn’t matter to me what you think about their motives. They ain’t gonna be affected by anything that happens or any legislation that passes, they’re not going to all of these guys are gonna do what they want.
I do believe Elon's takeover of X was about the 1stA's gov't control, censorship and suppression. No one has been "damaged" by X as the Leftist Karens screamed about. If anything it has really improved. And, I like GROK way better than ChatGBT - these AI things are still in their infancy and due diligence is needed.
I also think he saw the abuses & lawfare Trump was hammered with the past 4 years, including getting shot and 2 assassination attempts was enough is enough.
^ 25, even if you were right, the other 50% is not taxpayer dollars. And how does he help himself on the taxpayer front by pissing off a party who will be back in charge at some point? Or by pissing off Tesla and Starlink private purchasers who support the Dems? Heck Tesla shares have been on a steady march downward since he jumped into the DOGE thing, courtesy of pissed off consumers and shareholders.
Nah, if all he cared about was the dollars, he would have stayed out of politics and sucked up to both sides, like most large corporations do. I am hardly naive, but if his angle if purely financial I'm struggling to see how he's helping himself. It's more like the guy already has more money than he will ever be able to spend in several lifetimes, so now he's indulging his personal desires.
Waiting for @wld and the rest of the Lib Cope Squad (aka Devoted Suckers of Puddy Tat's Dick Club) to spin this one!
81% of Americans, including 70% of Democrats and 80% of Independents, support deporting illegal aliens who have committed crimes.
76% of Americans support a "full-scale effort" to eliminate government fraud and waste.
76% of Americans want to close the border and add extra security.
69% of Americans, including half of all Democrats, want to ban men from women's sports - and a similar number want the government to declare that there are only two sexes.
70% of Americans said government should hire people "strictly on the basis of merit and objective evaluations."
79% of Americans said the government should make sure that categories "like race, gender, and religion" are not used to discriminate against applicants.
66% of Americans, including more than a third of Democrats, think Democrats shouldn't oppose everything Trump is doing out of the gate and help Trump eliminate government waste.
58% of Americans say Trump is doing a better job than Biden.
Republican party approval rating is 51%
Democratic party approval rating is 36%
Donald Trump's approval rating +7%
The following Democratic leaders and no Republican leaders are are -10% net approval or worse: Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, AOC, Chuck Schumer, Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams
@Mogul: I actually agree. And now he's using Twitter as a platform to take the fight global.
It's relatively easy in the U.S., with such strong Constitutional protections surrounding free speech, to tell a hostile administration to pound sand. Though it wasn't free as the Biden Administration retaliated by siccing the DOJ and SEC on Musk.
But Musk has also been picking fights in other foreign jurisdictions that he need not engage in, no doubt alienating plenty of people in the process. Obviously we have all heard what he's been doing recently in Europe. But he also recently took a censorship case in Brazil all the way to the Brazilian Supreme Court (he lost, but at least he tried).
He had no valid economic reason for doing any of this. Indeed if I was a public shareholder of Tesla or a private equity investor in any of his other businesses, I'd be downright pissed right now.
^ Tesla, is just as dependent on taxpayer dollars as most of his other companies are, he’s getting licenses to install charging stations all over the country, bidding on limited access toll roads for locations, cutting deals with other auto manufacturers to license charging technologies to use their vehicles, and getting access to regulatory agencies is part of the process, he just made a deal with Mercedes Benz USA to allow them to charge their electric vehicles at his stations, he will need regulatory approvals, he’s getting approvals to license solar batteries and factories, to manufacture the batteries, and getting mining rights for minerals he needs to manufacture the batteries, buddy his tongue is so far up the federal asshole probably deeper than Zuckerberg or Bezos or most of the others, and they too need regulatory approvals and special permits and franchises to run their businesses as well, so don’t keep pushing this altruistic nonsense because that’s exactly what it is, nonsense.
@rick and @25 - As soon as Musk allied with Trump, $TSLA became basically a meme stock, untethered from fundamentals, much like $DJT has been (I don't know anyone with a Truth Social account, do you?)
Of course Musk isn't altruistic. Nor is Zuck or Bezos or Trump himself for that matter. They all see the way the wind is blowing. But that said, I thought the left wanted more EVs and battery storage capacity, so they should welcome this sort of thing.
@RD
I’m an investor in Tesla and I own ARK Shares which owns Space X I’m not pissed at Musk, he’s been making me a shit pile of money, why would I be pissed at business people for doing business, that’s also nutso
@25: And he's still going to need all of those approvals, taxpayer dollars and other things four years from now. These are not 4 year ventures man, lol. He's also going to need cooperation from several liberal states. He will also want all of these things from several foreign governments.
Yet despite all of that, he's picking fights everywhere. With the Biden Administration when it was in power, with California (Tesla's largest U.S. market by far), with the employees of several federal regulatory agencies (who will no doubt have long memories) and now several other countries. It makes no economic sense whatsoever.
None of Musk's businesses are irreplaceable, except maybe Starlink with its 7,000 satellites in orbit. Just keep that in mind as you continue to hold on to those Tesla and SpaceX investments.
^ so four years from now he’ll put two hundred and seventy five million dollars into another candidate’s campaign, you think with that kind of cash infusion, the new politician won’t be willing to overlook Mr. Musk’s previous transgressions.
You’re being naive
^Dude, he'd have to put money in countless different politicians campaign accounts to even attempt to reverse course for the bad will that he has doubtlessly earned, both here and around the world.
And that still doesn't account for pissing off a large chunk of your potential retail consumers (Tesla), advertisers (Twitter) or potential future commercial customers (other governments, various corporate entities, etc.), who can always go elsewhere for their products.
He could have massively sucked up to Trump without picking all these fights, starting with the Biden Administration (before he knew who would even win the election), CA and countries around the world.
Or getting involved in this DOGE stuff.
There is no way that this is all about money because...it...doesn't...make...economic...sense to pick these fights. Indeed this is precisely why most large corporations typically suck up to politicos on both sides of the aisle. Now I definitely won't go as far as to say it's pure altruism, but there's definitely something else at play. Ego maybe? Legacy? Future political ambitions? Boredom? I'm sure time will tell, but it was all about money he wouldn't be out in the public eye picking one fight after another.
Tbh if I was a Tesla shareholder, I would have dumped it the second he started wading into this DOGE stuff.
^ I’m comfortable with my investments, Kathy Woods seems to be as well.
The wealth that Musk has he could can buy whatever politicians he needs, he paid 44 billion for Twitter, he can buy a new president for less than that buddy.
^ But you still haven't talked about how it makes economic sense to pick all these fights with so many governments and to alienate so many different revenue sources in the process. The short answer is that it doesn't.
Now I'll copy and paste the rest from above:
Now I definitely won't go as far as to say it's pure altruism, but there's definitely something else at play. Ego maybe? Legacy? Future political ambitions? Boredom? I'm sure time will tell, but it was all about money he wouldn't be out in the public eye picking one fight after another.
Oh, and good luck with Kathy Woods, who has lost a lot of people a lot of money and generated mediocre long-term and very short-term returns for the ones lucky enough not to come in 2 or 3 years ago.
I never said it makes sense what I’m saying is it doesn’t matter, nobody is going to refuse to accept his call, don’t you think he knows this, like Trump he enjoys playing the bully.
I’ve made plenty of mistakes but Kathy Woods Ark investments aren’t one of them, you need to learn more about her before making statements like that.
Ark isn’t for everyone and it’s never going to be, but she has access to some great resources that are very valuable.
@PT
Tesla is in no way a meme stock, as of !2/2024 they had 122 Billion in assets on their balance sheet,
and the current market cap is 1.063 Trillion.
That hardly fits the definition of a meme stock, but say what you like.
@25 - It wasn't always, but towards the election it became decoupled from fundamentals.
From Q2 2024 to YE 2024, it jumped by 2.5x. Did its revenues or earnings grow proportionally during that time?
What do you think would happen if Musk had a major falling out with Trump? I bet it would drop by $100 (closed at $330 today).
^ it might but it wouldn’t drop as much as you think, I think the value is there long term, and that’s what separates it from the memes. Comparing it to Truth Social is sort of ridiculous, even comparing TS with X (formerly twitter) is crazy, if Elon went away those stocks would jump in value, and if you look at X it’s pretty much back where it was when musk bought it.
Don’t see any reason to think Musk’s companies are meme stocks, there too much genuine value and that’ll be there in the long run.
Musk gave a speech at the World Governments Summit in Dubai last week, where he said the new administration has less interest in interfering with the affairs of other countries, and that America should "mind its own business". Given the extent to which he and Trump have been doing just the opposite, this is surreal. Maybe he could fool some of the MAGA crowds, but I doubt he's fooling this crowd. What an idiot !
@wld4testes: Maybe grow a pair and stop worrying about what the children who run these other countries think. That definitely includes Macron, who runs a country that is going to shit because they: (1) are taxing and regulating its economy into perpetual stagnation; (2) running a welfare state that cannot continue under its own weight (even when subsidized by Daddy U.S.); (3) have ever increasing outbreaks of violence and civil disobedience that they cannot control; and (4) continue to degrade their citizens' free speech rights.
Besides, it doesn't necessarily hurt for folks to think that Trump may be a bit crazy. You'll notice that the Houthis stopped firing on ships the day that Trump took office, Hamas has been coughing up hostages and it looks increasingly likely that the Ukraine war is going to be settled. The world is quickly becoming a much safer place.
Oh, and speaking of Macron, if Israel had cared what he thought about anything, they'd still be getting attacked on 3 sides. Instead Israel neutered Hamas and Hezbollah and wiped out Iran's air defenses and is much safer a a result. Like I said, Macron is a child with a fluffy view of real world realities.
@rickdugan - @wld and the rest of the lib cope squad never read Machiavelli, and realized it's better to be feared or respected rather than loved. Obama and Biden didn't ask much of them, Trump does. We got pussified under the first two. Had our bluff called in Syria. Embarrassed ourselves in Afghanistan. Russia made their incursions. While it's not pleasant for them, the world is a safer place under Trump.
By hating their home, they can feel superior to those mouth breathing American poors that don't own passports. Kind of the same reason they love flaunting trans children; it says "I'm more enlightened than you," forget that they have to inflict it on their poor kids in the first place.
Europe is what they want to be; managed, comfortable decline, loss of their identity, and with the moral superiority of importing people that want to kill and enslave them. Israel and most of America have an identity that they want to adhere to and believe their way of life is worth fighting for.
Macron is trying to rally Europe, he doesn't expect that anything he says will back Trump down. Even if Trump could be convinced about Ukraine the way Johnson was, it will only mean Ukraine is really fucked instead of really, really fucked. A lot of immigrants are going to undeservedly to feed as red meat to hysterical MAGA. Unless we get very lucky, history will remember us as the most self-defeating society ever. Assuming that we don't trigger a dark age, after which we are only remembered in some mythical way.
Ilb, did you have a real point in all of that hysterical hyperbole? Red meat? Hysterical MAGA? Most self-defeating society ever? A dark age? LMAO. Care to elaborate an exactly how most of these things will come to be and what you think that really means? 😆
^ I'm not defending Trump (perhaps others are?), but I want to see some kind of exit strategy. I've spoken to a couple good friends, one with a Master's in International Relations with a specialty in Russia, and one who grew up in the USSR, and they say we fucked up by putting restrictive rules of engagement on initial shipments. Now, we're negotiating from a much worse position.
Saying the only successful outcome is to completely drive Putin out ignores reality. How much are we willing to spend? Are we willing to put American or NATO boots on the ground? Even Ukrainians are in favor of a land for peace deal, now.
I want to see a strategy to win. We haven't acted like we have one.
^ The Ukrainians can win, support them, stop undermining them, they had the Russians on their back foot until Trump and the Republican congress started fucking around with their support.
Lousy chickenshit phony bastards throwing our allies under the bus.Ukraine gave up their nukes, because we promised them security.
The world is watching this is noted by both our friends and enemies.
Yep, they’ve been taking orders from Trump since the Congress flipped from Democrats to Republicans.
That’s when the money and material support stopped, that’s on MAGA.
Yeah, what a bunch of assholes for not supporting an area of the world that sided with the nazis. People forget that the whole Ukraine fuck up is on Obama, who interfered with their democratic elections when a candidate whom he disapproved of won. As much as I consider the Russians the enemy, Obama fucked this up, just like his fuck up with Iran has caused about 60,000 deaths so far.
^ say what you want, nothing you or any one else says will erase this shameful U. N. Resolution that is now permanently a part of Trump’s record. Imagine the United States voting in support of Russia along with Iran, North Korea, etc Al; what a humiliating display of appeasement. What a stain on Trump’s presidency
I'm actually going to agree with the resident libtards on the U.N. resolution. IMO it was a poor look for the U.S.
With that said, it was a completely meaningless resolution in any event with no practical consequences. I suspect that Trump didn't want to poison the well as he enters into peace negotiations with Putin. I'll reserve final judgment for whatever peace agreement is hammered out, but I agree that this resolution exercise was not encouraging.
^25, let's not overhype it now. Even if it had passed as drafted, it was a meaningless gesture with no real world consequences.
Like I said, I agree that it wasn't a good look. But this hardly rises to the level of what Never Chamberlain did, lol.
I suspect that Trump is a ticked off because Ukraine didn't bend over on the rare earth mineral rights request. Tbh I can kind of see Trump's point. We have spent almost $200 billion on aid to Ukraine since the war began. It's not totally unreasonable for the U.S. to ask for something in return, especially when Ukraine is not doing much with them anyway while they are something we very much need.
Heck, Putin is playing around with it now by floating rumors in our media posts that he'd be willing to grant mineral rights to the U.S. in the parts of Ukraine that Russia occupies. LMAO. Obviously the subtext here is that Russia would need to retain that territory in order to grant those rights. Let the games begin!
Yes, overhype it. It was a meaningless gesture anyway. My guess is that he didn't want to back Putin into a face saving corner before the peace negotiations had even begun.
But hey man, I won't completely disagree with your feelings about his character. Most people don't know a lot about his business history since his company is private. But anyone working in NYC in real-estate services or project debt financing (including many hedge fund managers) in the 90s and 2000s knows his history all too well. I think you and I both fall into that category.
To this day there are many private fund managers who finance real-estate projects who wouldn't dream of touching anything with the Trump name on it. He burned a lot of people through 6 separate property bankruptcies. The first one in '91 almost cost him his shirt because he had made some personal guarantees relating to the business. But he managed to squeak out of that one and never made the same mistake again, lol.
But on this I can only say let's wait and see how the real game shakes out, which is the peace negotiation.
Rumor is it that Trump and Zelenskyy are going to sign a minerals deal.
(No, Axios is NOT a conservative site.) www.axios.com
Who knows if this is true; could be another Trump tactic, but if Trump can tell Putin hey, we've got our own interests to defend in there, it changes the calculus.
Fuck Puddy, you just beat me to it. I was about to post a big THIS JUST IN: UKRAINE HAS AGREED TO A JOINT MINERAL RIGHTS DEVELOPMENT DEAL WITH THE U.S!
I'm more convinced than ever now that this was what the whole U.N. resolution thing was all about. Zelensky was resisting a mineral rights deal, the Trump Administration sent a warning shot across the bow that Ukraine could end up on its own, and now a deal has been reached. This does indeed change the calculus as the U.S. will be highly motivated to keep Ukraine free and happy in exchange for those rare earth minerals that we currently rely upon China and other bad actors to obtain. This is a great outcome for us.
Comrade Putty Tat was saying this last year, and the year before that, and so on. Repeating it over and over. And yet the Ukrainians have held their own well, all things considered, against an army several times larger. Meanwhile Russia had 430,000 casualties last year and had to tap into North Korea to keep up their meat grinder.
Israel wasn't expected to cede OCCUPIED territory except for real peace. It's reasonable that Ukraine won't consider giving up territory except for real peace. Real peace means being in NATO. It's up to Congress whether Ukraine gets more US aid. The US can withhold more aid, but it can't force Ukraine to agree to anything.
You fucking MAGA morons are just a bunch of apologists for this senile, mean spirited, mush mouthed, motherfucker, every time he does something heinously offensive you claim it's a negotiating strategy, If Joe Biden or Barack Obama had said the same thing you'd all be having apoplectic fits, let's be real clear, this man is vile, if you don't have the guts to stand up for what's right I feel sorry for you all.
Not much has happened regarding world peace since Trump was elected. Gaza ceasefire; Lebanon ceasefire; Houthis have stopped attacking ships; Russia advanced no further; China has slowed down their assaults on Taiwan. China's rare earth metals attack on us was just trumped by the Ukraine deal. I guess democrats are made that Harris couldn't follow the Biden weakness example and get more people killed.
25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs.
There's a lot I don't like about Trump. I have never voted for him in a primary and had to hold my nose in each general election. He's a showman and a con artist. A lot of the same gimmicks he has used in the White House are recycled over and over from the same playbook, including the old McDonald's gag that he first used in his first bankruptcy to show that the company was trying to conserve money at a Board meeting and then again at the White House when he was trying to show budget frugality.
But unlike you, as a grown ass man in control of his emotions, I can filter out the noise and separate out the character of the person from the results. On the results front, I very much like what I see. The world is getting safer, horribly destructive DEI, ESG and gender ideology mandates are being rolled back, regulatory agencies are being reigned in, the border is coming under control and he is doing everything he can to reduce out of control government spending. In other words, he is doing everything he can to keep his promises.
Oh, and lest I forget 25, Trump has now even turned a financial black hole of a war in Ukraine into something that could pay off strategically and financially for many years to come. Right now we rely upon China for about 70% of our rare earth minerals, which is obviously an undesirable position to be in from a global strategy perspective.
Like I said, I care about the results more than the noise.
RD you sound like an apologist for Donald Trump, all of this bullshit surrounding an out of control narcissistic bully with self control issues. The majority of your argument is bogus, costs can be reined in without all of this drama, if you think I sound like a shrill woman, you sound like a fucking moron caught up in the cult of Donald J. Trump. This is as much my country as yours, I assure you I am quite in control of my emotions, this apologist behavior , reminds me of the red scare of the 1950s which Trump is desperately trying to recreate.
^ Kind of funny that when Biden opened the borders, cancelled student debt to buy votes and gave away money to anti-American groups, you had nothing to say, despite his Nazi behavior, who were and are socialists like today's democrats. Kind of funny that cutting waste could have been done simply and easily instead of the hysterical way it's being done now, because nothing else ever worked once in history.
"25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs."
That is the most perfectly accurate description of any personality on this site, ever.
^ You are another phony bullshitter, come on here saying how much you despise Trump, yet over and over you endorse not only his policies, but his despicable behavior, you are also a fucking Trump apologist, that's nothing to be proud of.
@25: Yup, I was right. You're deep in the grip of Trump Derangement Syndrome. 😉
One of the telltale symptoms of TDS is to believe that Trump's actions needs to be defended or apologized for, which then leads you to label anyone who supports those actions as an apologist. In essence, you're stuck in an emotional rut.
Given the results he is delivering, I don't know what you think there is to defend or apologize for. Sure he's loud and abrasive, but he's getting getting the job done. If anyone needs a defense, it's that utter waste of a President that we just got rid of, who may have been a nicer guy than Trump, but was dangerously ineffective in foreign policy and in curbing the worst impulses of ideologically extreme people who he appointed to run his administrative state.
"an out of control narcissistic bully with self control issues"
Psychological defense mechanism
Projecting what we hate most about ourselves onto others is a psychological defense mechanism where people attribute their own undesirable traits or impulses to others to avoid inner conflict or stress
I agree with that, while I do not agree with all of his policies and EOs and I did not support his candidacy for the nomination in 2016, Trump has an excellent track record of delivering for America and the free world. Our enemies are taking a step back, our freeloading allies are being forced to step up (if they re-align, were they ever really our allies?), and the corrosive leftist policies of the past four years are being erased from the national landscape. It is unreasonable to expect every action taken to not result in some disruption, especially when so much of what needs to be corrected is institutionalized.
Oh man, 25, you were a few more profanity-laden tirades from making your point.
"You fucking MAGA morons are just a bunch of apologists for this senile, mean spirited, mush mouthed, motherfucker,"
"you sound like a fucking moron caught up in the cult of Donald J. Trump"
"you are also a fucking Trump apologist, that's nothing to be proud of."
"Comrade Putty Tat was saying this last year, and the year before that, and so on. Repeating it over and over. And yet the Ukrainians have held their own well, all things considered,"
And comrade Puddy Tat (spell it right, tard bait) was correct, and continues to be correct.
War isn't graded on an "all things considered" curve, it's absolute.
If I had any creds with you, I'd be forced to consider the error of my ways.
You're often wrong though rarely in doubt.
^ "You gonna whack us with your cane"
why bother, you pussies are going to surrender to Putin en masse, if you find the strength to pull your tongues out of your dear leaders asshole.
"25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs."
This is foolish, enjoy your circle jerk, and praise your dear leader, I leave you fools to it, just like the McCarthy era, this too will come to an end.
^ Yes, gramps, we'll miss your factless tirades and analingus references (NinaBambina seems to think about tonguing Trump's asshole enough; you two might have something to talk about over PM).
@25: This is exactly what I mean by a lack of emotional control and Trump Derangement Syndrome. The Trump Administration fails to support one meaningless finger-pointing U.N. resolution, all too obviously to pressure the Ukraine to cave on mineral rights, and now you have us all surrendering to Putin en masse. 😆
Dude, get a grip man, seriously. Let's see how it plays out before we criticize the outcome of a peace negotiation process that hasn't even started, lol.
I actually suspect that Trump is going to play hardball with Russia now that those extremely valuable mineral rights are part of the equation. Or perhaps he will push Ukraine to accept a less advantageous deal if Russia sweetens the pot (as it has already said it might do) with access to mineral rights on Russian occupied territory, but that would also be consistent with Trump's "America First" platform. We shall see.
Sadly 25 is hardly alone with these emotional control issues. As someone who grew up in one of the most liberal states in the country and went to college in the same, I spent my formative years surrounded by people like this.
For them it's all about feel good politics and policies. This is why DEI, ESG and gender ideology programs register to positively with them. They want to feel like they are part of some moral crusade and on the side of right, regardless of the real world consequences. Effective governance, common sense and even honesty are very distant seconds for them if they even register at all.
This is why wld4testes keeps getting his panties in a knot every time he thinks that Trump is being crude or reckless with our allies and "embarrassing us" in the process. It rubs sharply against both his feel good sensitivities and his belief that we should be more closely emulating Europe's approach to governance. It's also why 25 loses his damned mind every time Trump utters abrasive approach makes 25 lose his damned mind all the time. Neither of them cares about effective governance, common sense or even practical results. They just want to feel good and Trump makes it hard for them to do that.
But again, there are a lot of these people out there. They are also becoming increasingly concentrated in certain states, like CA and NY. And not surprisingly, these states, much like Europe, have been doing tremendous damage to their tax bases, budgets, energy grids, gas an energy prices as a result of embracing these same asinine feel good policies. Yet people in these places keep voting for the politicos who do this stuff to them.
Spending my formative years hanging out in Cambridge, Mass, attending U.Mass. Amherst (in the amazingly even more liberal pioneer valley) and attending law school and grad school in Boston, followed up by not being a member for 43 years of the even more liberal Massachusetts Bar Association, I have been hanging out with liberals my whole life. As you get older you see friends and relatives die. Anecdotally it seems that my liberal buds go at a much higher rate than my right wing buds.
RD the meaningless UN resolution you refer to is pure cowardice, we’re Americans we don’t cave to dictators making demands of us. The only reason there is a Russia today is because we Americans saved the Russians from Germany, 70 years ago, Donald Trump has dishonored the sacrifices made by our fathers not the first time either, you should be ashamed of your collective selves. A fucking draft dodger and a coward is who you folks are supporting
Shameful
25, copied and pasted from above. Until you can provide a substantive disagreement, then everything I said about you being a shrill hyper-emotional woman who only cares about feel good nonsense still holds...
Unlike you, as a grown ass man in control of his emotions, I can filter out the noise and separate out the character of the person from the results. On the results front, I very much like what I see. The world is getting safer, horribly destructive DEI, ESG and gender ideology mandates are being rolled back, regulatory agencies are being reigned in, the border is coming under control and he is doing everything he can to reduce out of control government spending. In other words, he is doing everything he can to keep his promises.
Trump has now even turned a financial black hole of a war in Ukraine into something that could pay off strategically and financially for many years to come. Right now we rely upon China for about 70% of our rare earth minerals, which is obviously an undesirable position to be in from a global strategy perspective.
Like I said, I care about the results more than the noise.
One more thing my loathing of that coward is not Trump Derangement Syndrome as y’all like to call it it’s actually something that seems to be lacking in this conversation, it’s called PRINCIPLES, I have them you fellas seem to need to get some.
^25, like it or not, he's the current President. The country knew what it was getting when they voted him in. And on the principles front, he was transparent about what he intended to try to do when in office and now he's doing everything he can to keep his promises. That is a hell of a lot more than can be said for Obama or Biden.
I know his past as well as anyone. But until he gives me some reason to doubt his intentions, which thus far he has not, I won't hold it against him as President.
^ right and I kept my mouth shut until he decided to go ahead and play kiss ass with a dictator and undermine an ally. Principle demands being honest you’re being dishonest by giving this lowlife a pass
^In what universe is Ukraine an ally, let alone an ally we need and provides a benefit? Seems more like an ex-wife collecting alimony than a benefit. I don't like the look of Trump cuddling up to our enemy, but on the bright side I didn't like our enemy cuddling up to China. Like a trade in baseball. I seem to recall a brilliant Red Sox trade for a desperately needed reliever named Larry Anderson. Not only did he help them make the playoffs, but the stupid Astros didn't want starting 3rd baseman and all-star Scott Cooper and took some AA guy.
Of course, the Red Sox got knocked out in the first round, never resigned Larry Anderson, Cooper turned out to suck and that AA guy turned out to be the only guy in the history of baseball to ever have 6 seasons in a row of 30 hrs, 100 Rbis, 100 runs and 100 walks; hit 449 home runs and the only first baseman in history to hit over 400 home runs and steal 200 bases. You not being in the hall is a crime, Jeff Bagwell. As with Trump, let it play out before you declare a victor.
25, again you're ascribing great importance to a meaningless U.N. resolution as a justification for all of your tirades. It was just a negotiating tactic man. Getting those mineral rights could be a huge deal and all it took was a NO vote on a meaningless finger pointing resolution to shake them loose from Ukraine. It's not like the world needed the U.N. to tell them that Russia was the aggressor in this war. 😉
That ground under that little country is estimated to contain 5% of the world's rare earth elements, which are necessary for our energy, tech, aerospace and other critical sectors. Heck Ukraine already produces 7% of the world's titanium, which is critical for space rockets and satellites, among other things. A lot of these other resources are vastly underdeveloped.
This could be an incredible coup for us by dramatically decreasing our reliance upon China. Personally I have no problem with the U.S. recouping something for the $200 billion we have spent helping the Ukraine fight off Russia.
@rickdugan
"This is why wld4testes keeps getting his panties in a knot every time he thinks that Trump is being crude or reckless with our allies and "embarrassing us" in the process. It rubs sharply against both his feel good sensitivities and his belief that we should be more closely emulating Europe's approach to governance. It's also why 25 loses his damned mind every time Trump utters abrasive approach makes 25 lose his damned mind all the time. Neither of them cares about effective governance, common sense or even practical results. They just want to feel good and Trump makes it hard for them to do that."
You hit on a major point of liberal psychology here. Politics is a means to feel good. 25 likes that it presses his anger buttons and makes him feel young and potent and masculine, wld4tatas likes that it makes him feel like a righteous, holy victim.
They say not to accept criticism from anyone you wouldn't accept advice from, and that proves quite true here and not just for the libs. Not just from them, but the effete Euros who have long surrendered any semblance of leadership on the world stage. The American left loves them because they're doing what they want us to be doing, easing ourselves into a comfortable decline, doing penance for our distant past, and otherwise diminishing themselves.
The left also doesn't seem to get that nations are self-interested entities, and they've turned the lesson of the later GWB years on its ear. In rankings of corruption, Ukraine was a CUNT HAIR less corrupt than Russia, and now we're trying to act like it's Denmark when Zelenskyy has squelched internal opposition to a frightening extent. Perhaps we're another self-interested entity and it's not our job to fuck ourselves trying to democratize the world? No, that would make too much sense!
I don't agree with everything Trump is doing (I overall like DOGE but lots of babies thrown out with the bathwater), but comparing 45's foreign policy to 46's, you'd have to be on drugs not to see a safer geopolitical world under Trump. (I'm waiting the Lib Cope Squad to come and try and spin this.)
If we got rare earths and a safer Eastern Europe out of this, I can't wait to see how the LCS would spin that, but they'd find a way. Because Orange Man Bad! Orange Man Bad! Orange Man Bad!
^ geez what a bunch of idiots you guys are, you can’t stand anyone criticizing your beloved leader, just more proof that your clueless about what this country is. Don’t let your feelings get your head turned around.
In America we are free to criticize our government without fear of reprisals, your guy is the biggest liar and crybaby we’ve ever elected to the highest office in this country. If y’all are so confident about this fat tub of shit, why do you respond to every single criticism with personal attacks My hypothesis is you’re all so insecure that you can’t face the reality of what you’ve done.
I do not understand how such blind, deranged, rage can make someone feel good, live well, or enjoy life. Then again, liberals do not seek to understand others nor be understood, they just want validation for their feelings by attacking anyone who dares to disagree with them. Nothing pisses them off more than free speech in the opposition of their beliefs.
No one's stopping you from criticizing Trump, 25, you think you're owning us a lot harder than you actually are when you criticize him.
We're also not working up our systolic blood pressure to stroke-out levels like you over politics.
I wished Biden success, and I'm sure I'll wish the next Democratic president success, even if I want their agenda blocked.
You know, of all recent presidents, none of them have done as many of the items they campaigned on as Donald Trump. In other words, Donald Trump is the most honest president of the last 30 years.
@gamma - That actually came up in a conversation with my dad (a never-Trump Republican) over the weekend. How people think Trump is this complicated character, we agree that he's as simple as it gets. Winning. Self-aggrandizement. All political leaders are like that, but Trump even moreso.
The UN resolution and Trump's deal-making with Putin is a dark turning point in American and world history. It's embarrassing and sickening to many of us.
The main defense seems to be.... it's a bad look but don't worry, it's part of a strategy to get a deal and have peace. But what kind of deal matters immensely.
IMO, the only way Trump can save face on this unfolding disaster is if somehow we get an outcome where Russia is forced out, Ukraine gets it's territory back, and there is a security arrangement to keep Ukraine safe. That Russia is deterred rather than encouraged to do it again. Sure, Europe can and should do more. And sure, if the US can get some mineral rights in the process, great. But otherwise, any net territorial gain would be a win for Putin. This is how it's shaping up at the moment.
If Russia gets a win out of this, Trump will go down in infamy as the US President who enabled it by turning his back on our allies and "deal-making" with Putin. The US President who reversed decades of world order and caved to a dictator. We'll see what happens though, we're not there quite yet.
Rather a green electrical grid or no toxic chemicals. The left treats CO2 as an "at all costs" emergency, but isn't willing to admit let alone do what it takes to get it. Life has tradeoffs.
I haven't heard any reason yet why private enterprise can't handle where and how mining occurs. Governments should regulate to minimize environmental damage. Wealthy countries should not take advantage of desperate countries, to force all the environmental damage on them.
When Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, Obama did little other than blow some hot air. Obama basically tongued Putin's ass for years.
When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, Biden, to his credit, did much more than that. But even still he played a lot of games, slow rolling key military equipment and ultimately giving the Ukraine just enough to resist, but not enough to actually push Russia out. And every time Biden considered doing more, Putin just uttered the word "nuclear" and Biden piddled his Depends and continued to play games in the name of "not provoking a broader conflict."
But now, after everything that Obama and Biden did to allow this to happen, it is suddenly supposed to be Trump's holy mission to make sure that Russia doesn't keep one square mile more than it had when the most recent invasion started. SMH.
For the liberals here who think that Trump should insist on a complete withdrawal, what should he be willing to do to ensure it? Perhaps provide Ukraine with the air power and long range missiles that Biden denied them? Give Ukraine the green light to keep hitting key military and supply line targets in Russia? And what will you do when he starts using the word "nuclear" again and your favorite left-leaning rags start once again making shrill cries about WW3 on the horizon?
At this point, realism has to play a role. The Russians are entrenched now, thanks in no small part to Biden's cowardice. The cost of pushing them back completely on all fronts is likely higher than anyone wants to pay, including Ukraine.
^ I don't see Ukraine quitting the fight, I agree Biden's overly cautious partial support was disastrous, still the fact is 3 years after Ukraine, which was supposed to be overwhelmed by the Red Army is still fighting, and mostly holding their own. This conversation is purely self serving and doesn't match the facts. Cowardice is despicable no matter how you try to restate it.
If the Ukraine is willing to keep fighting, I don't have a problem with providing them with material support.
Right now the Russians have been exposed as paper tigers, and you folk are still chickenshit. I want to see some leadership from our leaders, not this raw transactional pseudo macho bluster that means nothing.
Tell Putin we don't accept his behavior and back it up, we have the means, I resent our president's (all of them) failure to stand for democracy.
^ 25, I actually would love everything you are suggesting about providing them with material support and letting them continue to grind down the Russian army. I agree that the Russians were far weaker than they appeared on paper and I'd love to see them weaker still.
But the winds have shifted since the war began. You and I are no longer on the side of the majority.
According to a recent Gallup poll, now only 38% of Ukrainians support fighting until complete victory is achieved. 52% of them now want a negotiated peace.
Meanwhile, only 24% of Americans now think that we aren't giving Ukraine enough support. The rest are almost equally divided between too much, just the right amount and unsure.
If Biden had struck when the iron was hot, then maybe we'd have Ukraine completely free and the Russian military in such ruins that contemplating further aggression against their neighbors wouldn't be realistic for many years to come. But the will to keep fighting is waning in Ukraine, as is support here in the U.S. for massive additional pending on the country.
^ Let the Ukrainians make that decision, not a goddamn draft dodger. That’s a decision that those folk that have been fighting and dying are entitled make, not a bunch of pseudo tough guys who’ve never fired a shot in anger, nor felt the pressure of being attacked, and having to defend themselves against a bully with greater strength.
BTW PT
Some background for you to chew on, before you start your daily routine of bloviating on thing you know very little about
Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia.Dec
^ Puddy's right 25. When a strong majority of our own people don't want to ramp up military aid to another country and a majority of their people don't want to use it anyway, it's time to re-evaluate.
^ So Vladimir Putin is able to set policy for The United States of America
Fuck off with that shit, I don’t know what the problem is with you guys, but I was raised with a sense of honor, in a country where it matters. If our word means so little to you then we are in bigger trouble than even I thought.
Look, I want to make something crystal clear 25: I wish to fuck that Ukrainians were as eager to fight as they previously were and that our citizens were eager to fund whatever it takes to kill another hundred thousand Russian soldiers and blow up much more Russian equipment. But Ukrainian voters are now losing their resolve to keep fighting and American taxpayers are losing their interest in paying for it.
Facts on the ground man. Even if Trump wanted another blowout Ukraine spending package, he might not be able to get Congress to pass it. And even if they did, who will be left in the ever-shrinking Ukrainian Army to use it? Desertions are becoming a real problem now as more and more people lose their will to fight.
^ Bullshit on both, pure unadulterated bullshit
It’s obvious there’s a yellow streak running around but it’s not a good look.
I was pissed when Biden didn’t act when Putin used the N word, but Trump for all of his bluster has gone completely off course.
If we let this go we’re going to lose Taiwan, Africa, and Europe.
All of our alliances will disappear you’ll see this country become isolated, we’ve been down this road before and it’s didn’t work out before and it’s more dangerous now than ever.
^^ BTW the Ukrainians can stop fighting any time they want, that’s up to them, what we are doing is giving Vladimir Putin all of the cards, that’s shameful.
Ooh look, gramps talking tough. Tell not just TUSCL but all ok Ukraine they're a bunch of cowards for wanting a settlement and not to fight to the last! Go out and whack them with your cane!
Anyways, you've gotten your fight for Thursday, February 27, 2025.
Put a red check next to today on your calendar!
^ Stupid statement
What I said is it’s up to Ukrainians what they want but you knew what I said you just put words in my mouth so you’d have a straw man to comment on
Go fuck yourself, if you think this is a fight you should change your name to pissy pussy
After all you’re the one having a fight with a straw man.
A. Throw another $1-200 billion at them in military aid in the hopes that they MAY actually decide to it; or
B. Negotiate a peace deal that a majority of Ukrainians want anyway and pick up very much needed rare earth mineral rights in the process...
...you think that we should choose Option A. Okey dokey man. 😉
Looks like Starmer of The UK has put it together for us, he said no peace deal should reward the aggressor and Britain is willing to put both boots on the ground and planes in the air to provide security guarantees
As to your question above either option is fine with me as long as the Ukrainians want it to happen.
The most likely outcome of direct conflict between the UK and Russia is invocation of Article 5. 25 has been wishing for this since the conflict began. The most obvious result of an invocation of NATO Article 5 is a full nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia. China will be left to rule over the ashes of a nuclear holocaust. How does this make any sense?
Ukraine is not a NATO member. The United States of America has no vital national interest in Ukraine regaining its lost territory. If Ukraine had voted for better and more honest politicians, fewer military funds would have been diverted into the offshore bank accounts of their leaders and they might have even warded off an invasion. The United States needs to reiterate its firm commitment to defend the existing NATO alliance (even the freeloaders who are not meeting their treaty obligations) at every opportunity, but Ukraine is not one of them is too far off the NATO membership requirements to receive any security or defense guarantees.
@Gam: Yes they are not NATO members, but we did make security guarantees to Ukraine in exchange for them turning over their nukes. Google "Budapest Memorandum."
@RD
This is the problem too many here want to make this some sort of political issue, it’s far from a political issue, it’s a moral principle that we must not allow to be violated. This conversation gets diverted by people that make assumptions based on what they want from their leaders. This dilemma is completely about the character of our leadership, it has less than nothing to do with whether there is a “D” or an “R” in front of their title.
If we don’t do what is necessary and right we violate a sacred duty, and that will violate our own moral values.
Based on comments from the MAGA supporters here, Putin is implementing his playbook wonderfully and according to plan. He'd be grinning ear to ear at some of the statements being made.
@25: I actually agree with everything you said about morality issue. The whole point of the Budapest Memorandum was to give them assurances that we and the other signatories would step in if Russia attacked them after they gave up their nukes. It's also about others knowing that we will keep our word.
But I just don't see a practical outcome that includes completely restoring Ukraine's lost territory. The time to do that would have been when Ukraine still had the will to fight, the front line was still very fluid and there was broad support in the U.S. to support those efforts. But thanks to Biden's cowardice, that ship has sailed. The Russians have had too much time to dig in and fortify the new front line.
The cost of forcing them out now would be extremely high both economically and in human lives. Nobody seems to be willing to pay that tab now and that includes the American taxpayers AND the Ukrainians. There's a reason why Zelensky is embracing the peace negotiation - it's because he knows that he's losing domestic support to keep fighting.
===> "Putin is implementing his playbook wonderfully and according to plan. He'd be grinning ear to ear at some of the statements being made."
@wld4testes: Only if was as goofy a dipshit as you. Putin's plan was to seize control of Ukraine. Instead he's lost 100,000 troops, paid a steep economic price for the war and learned that his military forces were far weaker than he was led to believe by his Generals. Now he's just looking for a face-saving off ramp. Russia has a very long road ahead to recover from this and rebuild its military infrastructure.
@RD
All I can say is if Putin is allowed to profit from his aggression, the next, will be the Uzbekistan, and Khazakistan, then the Baltic states, if you think the cost will be too high now, wait and see the costs a few years down the road, it will be the old Domino Theory on steroids, coming back to life, that will be the third world war, only this time, we can't hide behind an ocean, it will be fought here as well.
Putin's --current-- playbook is to keep up the war effort and the propaganda to wear down the West's interest and will to fight. His success is clearly demonstrated by the comments from the MAGA crowd here.
"The United States of America has no vital national interest in Ukraine regaining its lost territory"
"Ukraine is running out of soldiers"
"The cost of forcing them out now would be extremely high"
Putin would be thrilled at this, it's exactly his plan.
If Ukraine and New Hampshire believe in living free or dying, it's not up to less brave people to tell them they shouldn't. For the US, the choice is do we make it a spending priority to deter and sanction criminal acts (by countries as well as people)? Or, do we just hope the criminals turn nicer, or only victimize others?
Right, so acknowledging the reality on the ground and acting accordingly makes you a Putin sympathizer.
If Trump gets this mineral deal done and the war ends as a result, I expect you to be singing Trump’s praises. Though more likely you'll complain that he wasn't nice enough about it.
Ukraine wants this to end. The numbers are what the numbers are. If they don't want to fight to the last, go ahead and and call them cowards. Or better yet, go to Kyiv and pick up a rifle.
@wld4testes: If you think that Putin is thrilled over the outcome of this war, you're demented. Putin's plan was to seize control of all of Ukraine. Instead he's lost 100,000 troops, lost a shit ton of military equipment and paid a steep economic price for the war, all to gain a relatively modest amount of the country.
In the process, the world learned that Russia's military forces were far weaker than anyone knew. Now that Ukraine has managed to fight Russia almost to a standstill, Putin's just looking for a face-saving off ramp. Russia has a very long road ahead to recover from this and rebuild its military infrastructure.
This was a huge embarrassment for a supposed major power that should have been able to roll the much smaller Ukraine. Putin is hardly grinning over this. In fact, it has undoubtedly weakened him politically.
Biden had the greatest military in the world advising him, I'm not going to second guess their judgement on how fast we moved in our military support. Biden did not continuously back off, look at the three years and you'll see a pattern of incremental escalation. The Russian military is arguably far more degraded now than it would have been with more aggressive action earlier. I'm in no position to say whether a different strategy would have been superior, and neither are any of you.
What I do believe is NATO countries working together can absolutely push Russia out of Ukraine with continued effort and strategic escalation. If NATO stepped up with a more aggressive plan at this point, I think you'd see it reflected in the Ukrainian sentiment polls. I'll happily support my tax dollars going to this cause. I don't want a tax cut. And I don't want my "money back" from the support we provided before... SMH
Biden had a DEI military incorrectly advising him. NATO is the USA. Russia/Ukraine is an EU issue. Their issue, they handle it. I notice the left avoids the fact that had not the execrable Obama not interfered in the electoral process in Ukraine, none of this happens. Every death there is 100% on Democrats and they can add the 48,000 dead terrorists in Gaza to their blood stained hands.
To think that he's "grinning ear to ear" or "thrilled" over any consolation prize is absurd. He went in with the goal of conquering Ukraine and he failed miserably, at great cost to himself and Russia. Anything he manages to salvage from this fiasco will simply be something he tries to leverage to save face.
"Biden had the greatest military in the world advising him." I certainly hope not. If the greatest military got their asses hand to them in Kabul and failed to predict the Hamas attacks on 10/7, we are well and truly fucked.
The greatest military may emerge under Trump 47, as it did under Trump 45.
A lot of this likely goes back to Trump's failed effort in his first term to bribe Zelensky to interfere in the 2020 election, which resulted in his first impeachment.
What I’d like to point out is that the European economy is 5X the size of the Russian economy, and defense spending while we consider it insufficient, is still 3X the Russian defense budget, so while I hope we don’t walk away from our obligation to the Ukraine, the Europeans certainly have the ability to pick up the slack if need.
We have been the leader of the free world and the one indispensable nation, if we leave we will have issues to resolve and less friends to assist.
Ukraine may well lose the war badly. But that doesn't mean that just giving up is the best option for them. Didn't work out for the Jewish people, when they didn't fight back against the Nazis. As long as they are willing to fight, it's in the interest of the US that they've got more than their dicks in their hands to fight with. Unless you think the US should roll back its foreign policy to what it was in 1939, it makes no sense to cut off aid to Europe. Putin clearly follows the pre-Gorbachev Russian strategy of pushing the Russian sphere of influence as far West as possible.
Agreed @25, and I think the ratio is greater, with Europe including the UK having a GDP over 20T, Russia 2T. Now is the time for Europe to step up as the new leader of the free world. The support for Zelensky and Ukraine is pouring in from European leaders, they just have to back it up with greater financial commitments and action.
Zelenskyy says it's up to the people of Ukraine, while he suspends elections under martial law. He's also acting bratty and entitled to American funds. If he wants our money, he's gotta play ball.
According to a reliable polling organization, Gallup, Ukraine is willing to trade land for peace. It is Zelenskyy who is flouting the will of his people, contra the liberal cope squad here.
Comrade Puddy Tat is missing some other pertinent details.
A majority of Ukrainians support Zelensky, his approval rating is 63% (not the 4% that lying Trump stated). And the Ukraine parliament last week also confirmed the position on no wartime elections, a position that most Ukrainians agree with.
"After more than two years of grinding conflict, Ukrainians are increasingly weary of the war with Russia. In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory."
But hey, man. You think Ukraine can force Russia out, pick up a rifle and hop on the nearest flight. Some of us are living in reality.
I've been reading the national and international condemnation of how Trump and Vance acted yesterday, this statement from Rep. Seth Moulton summed it up well:
"The President of the United States is a coward who is Vladimir Putin's puppet. The Vice President is a coward who is Donald Trump's puppet. What we just witnessed was a meeting in the Oval Office between two puppets and a hero."
Oh, and I'm giving the approval rating for actions, not just a person. If his approval rating were in the sixties, he could hold elections without fear.
Trump sent a message; we'll make peace with you, or your successor. Or you'll wage this war on your own. You are not entitled to our support.
Until late least year, I was an gung ho as anyone about lining up another large aid package for Ukraine, including the advanced weaponry that they have been begging for.
But then I saw the Gallup poll in November which indicated that 52% of Ukrainians wanted a negotiated peace. Then I read stories about increasing desertions and increasingly aggressive forced military conscriptions. And of course all of this is happening in the backdrop of an election that has been suspended for almost a year now.
We can't make Ukrainians fight if they don't want to and ultimately neither can Zelensky, whether he knows it or not. When looking at this whole picture, I seriously question whether it makes sense to throw another fortune in equipment ad Ukraine, especially he advanced stuff. I could easily see a scenario where a lot of this stuff ends up on the black market or, even worse, in Russia's hands.
This was a setup, this didn’t happen generically it was pre planned, there was no reason for this meeting to be televised, none of the earlier meetings with both Starmer of the UK or Macron of France, were broadcast. The intent was to humiliate and intimidate Zelenskyy, and it backfired on them terribly. If a poll were to be held my bet is Americans disapproved of this charade by the administration.
Trump's "deal" to Ukraine was complete bullshit too. 500 B in minerals to pay back the US for aid already provided, but we only provided 120 B in aid, and it was not a loan or a debt. With no guarantee of more support or security to Ukraine, just some vague words to not worry, the US would protect it's investment. Zelensky didn't fall for it, good for him.
It's pretty pointless to expect any explanation from Trump, he either weasel words, or contradicts himself. But since Vance drank the MAGA koolaid, his statements have at least been coherent. So, my question for Vance is, why are we staying in NATO at all? Why don't they ask the Congress for a vote to withdraw from NATO? Putin has all the same reasons to attack the Baltic states as he had to attack Ukraine. NATO won't kick out the Baltic states, so, we should get out of NATO if we're fine with what Putin is doing.
Comments
last commentHe won't just "take it." He isn't Putin or Hitler.
Not for lack of desire or smarts.....
ilbbaicnl - At the time of Trump's forced takeover of Greenland, has Musk already formed his alliance with the Martians and put them in charge of Space-X? It makes a big difference.
So Trump didn't say he wants the US to annex Greenland, and he doesn't rule out the use of military force to annex it?
apnews.com
APNews is a just a Soros/Global cohort. Trump would only use the military as a last worst to deal with violence like ISIS or Syria when it was dropping barrel bombs indiscriminately on the population. His track record shows he won't "attack" Greenland. However, might make a sweet deal with Greenlanders while a Danish Territory, Greenlanders have zero "love' for the Danes kind if like what "love" we have the for Brits in the 1700s before we booted them out.
Trump and the military on the ME: I'm surprised Trump didn't support action this past weekend when he told Hamas they had a deadline to release hostages by Noon on Saturday. Way more typical than not, once a deadline has passed, Trump takes action. He has already authorized bunker buster bombs to Israel to deal with Iran.
Even if Iran slows or stops their nuke program, they'll just wait it out until the next Dem POTUS/Congress is back. We'll see how sanctions are enforced on Iran. And, if tankers leave Iran what our Navy will do to intercept them. Taking out 1 Iranian oil export port would send a strong message.
Countries that support pirates may be in for some trouble to keep the waterways safer. Nothing sends a clearer message like an AC-130 Spectre Gunship.
Bottomline: Trump would use military as a last resort for hostile actions, and economics to bankrupt a county like Iran or seduce Greenland to become a US Territory.
Will it mean an influx of Eskimo strippers with Danish accents ?
That APNews article is factual, and they have a much higher journalistic bar than most right wing outlets.
How is Trump going to "seduce" leaders to buy Greenland when all he has done so far is offend and disgust other world leaders?
www.youtube.com
Stay tuned as our resident MAGA whackjobs call this a deep fake. Or, they'll say it's just a legit negotiating tactic. Under MAGA "morality", murder might be a crime, but robbery isn't. It's A-OK to get what you want by threatening violence.
AP News lol. Resting on its' past laurels for 50 years now. ^Said the George Floyd cocksucker about violence.
Greenland is just a tactic to keep Americans distracted from his critical issues, primarily reorganizing government to be a for profit enterprise for the elites. While we drink from his firehose, the strategy is to get what he really wants done, privatization of most government functions, past the public. And with a congress and Supreme Court filled with those more interested in protecting their phony baloney jobs that allow them to rake in millions personally, he is getting it done.
LIB COPE SQUAD IN THE HIZZZOUSE!!!
I-VOTED-FOR-A-STUPID-PSYCHOPATH COP SQUAD IN THE HIZZZOUSE!!!
If Trump did invade Greenland it would at least be a war the US could win... 😂 😭 🤡 💩
^Spoken like the typical scumbag traitor Leftie.
It's interest that participants in the cult of Trump never have any actual arguments to defend dear leader. It's always ad hominem attacks. Cult members suffer from severe cognitive dissonance. Their egos prevent them from admitting they're wrong about anything. The facts prevent them delivering arguments of substance. So what we're left with is just ad hominem bullshit.
Like, we can't trust AP News - one of the most reliable and important media outlets on the plant - but we can trust the words Trump, who has proven to be nothing but a fountain of mendaciousness?
"He's isn't Putin or Hitler." Yeah, OK, then what's with him tweeting "He who saves his Country does not violate any Law.” He's a fucking psychopathic neofascist.
He won't take Greenland by force? Why won't he rule it out then?
@PutaTester may or may not be right that Greenland is just a stratagem to other nefarious ends. I don't know, either way, I'm terrified of this imperial presidency and disgusted at the people who voted for it.
"I'm terrified of this imperial presidency and disgusted at the people who voted for it"
There's always Mexico for ya, sugar tits ;)
I'd say Germany but they're not big on freedom of speech these days.
Keep rage jerking your tiny liberal peckers to him. Whatever makes you feel like you have even a little bit of power over the situation.
Pittytat is just confused
Lol it's so funny because anyone here who remotely criticizes trump can guarantee that their post will be met with a "retaliation" post by "Puddy Tat," who comes to trump's defense at all times no matter what, as he has used Gorilla Glue to permanently seal his mouth onto trump's asshole. Puddy (and others) come to trump's defense immediately as if they are trained to do so. I really hope trump is paying him well for all the ass licking and fecal swallowing he does for him. But we all know trump has said himself that he doesn't care about Puddy, he only wants his votes. And we all know trump doesn't pay people, so essenrially Puddy & Co are eating trump's ass for free. Truly astounding to witness.
^ Triggered? Again with the fixation on bizarre sex acts.
Join the LCS.
The idea that Democrats think that Trump doesn't care and that it matters just shows how fucking stupid they all are. I hate Donald Trump. I wish for his time on earth to end. Yet, I prefer himto every democrat, libera, and progressive on earth. Don;t care what he does, because no matter how fucked up, it won;t be as fucked up as anything progressives do. I love the fact they are suffering.
The midterm elections will leave him a lame duck president
The fact that Trump has not been impeached for threatening to violently steal territory from a friendly country tells us something big about ourselves as a group. We've got no right to "throw the book" at most people in prison. We've proven we as a group think using violence to rob is just a question of whether you can get away with it. Most people in prison are no worse than that. We just need programs to convince them they won't get ahead in life by doing that. Clearly none of MAGA would see anything morally wrong about holding up a local convenience store. But most of them don't actually do it.
^ wah, sob, whine, wah.
Denmark has done zippy-do-da for Greenlanders who prefer to be called Kalaallit (however you pounce it). They are resentful. Making Greenland a Territory would do several things:
Obama and Biden (12 years) did all they could to weaken the USA as the dominate super power, and allowed China, Russia and Iran to grow and spread their influence.
Obama did NOTHING to help places like Iranian Green Uprising in 2009 and Arab Spring in 2011. He offered no verbal or UN support, none. Weak ass BITCH that only emboldened radical countries. Same thing as the result of Biden's disastrous bugout of AFG in US history, even worse than being a weak ass BITCH.
This would be a huge benefit to Greenland, and like I said, China and Russia have their sights set to get closer to North America. China's BRI (Belt Road Initiative) has deeply infected Panama and South America (Western Hemisphere), and Africa. Why Jimmy Carter just gave The Canal away was a sign of the USA giving up our global dominance. And the Treaty was never enforced allowing BRI to creep in like a cancer.
Having Greenland as a Territory helps stave off China, at least for now, by supporting the Monroe Doctrine which would bring Greenland into America's western hemisphere to push back on China’s Belt and Road ambitions in the Arctic.
===> "How is Trump going to "seduce" leaders to buy Greenland when all he has done so far is offend and disgust other world leaders?"
@wild4testes, this is not the first time you've claimed to speak for all other countries and world leaders. But let's even assume for a moment that you're correct. Which other country would you prefer that we emulate?
It is long past time that our European "allies" were told how fucking stupid they are behaving. They have spent the last two decades regulating and taxing their economies into perpetual economic stagnation. Their energy grids are becoming both increasingly unreliable and exorbitantly expensive courtesy of their reckless abandonment of reliable energy sources. They have been running unsustainable welfare states, which we have helped subsidize via defense spending and bearing the brunt of R&D expenses for life saving medicines.
But perhaps even worse than the economic pain that they continue to force upon their people, their push to censor people who post opinions that they don't agree with is downright chilling. Police are increasingly targeting people who post "harmful content" in online forums. Heck one instance even included a SWAT team for the heinous crime of online misogyny. Free and open democracies are just not supposed to run like this.
It is long past time that someone call all of this out. To the extent that these European leaders feel disgust for Trump, it is very much misdirected. They should be disgusted by themselves and what they are doing to their countries.
Anyone here from Greenland ?
I see @rick has now stooped to name calling, like his MAGA brethren. I thought he was better than them, but maybe not.
While he and mogul seem to have a lot of thoughts about Greenland and Europe in general, I would suggest to them that most Europeans would tell them to mind their own business. European democracies can chose their own destiny and form of government. What some Americans think about it matters little.
Oops. Only 6% of Greenlanders support the idea. There is no chance it will happen. Perhaps if the US had a President that treated others with more respect, that number might be higher.
Greenlanders overwhelmingly oppose becoming part of the United States, poll shows
www.reuters.com
@wld - If we have a moral obligation to protect democracy, then advocating freedom of speech in Germany is every bit as pertinent as doing so in Russia or China. Also, Europe does not have the right to "choose their destiny" with American tax dollars. They can defend themselves, and choose between not being overrun by Russia, their green dreams (which are tied together), and their generous welfare states.
We can defend allies that need it, such as those that are surrounded by foes of overwhelming size and strength (Israel, Japan, South Korea, and the Philippines, among other). WW2 ended 80 years ago; Europe can put on its big boy pants.
"Perhaps if the US had a President that treated others with more respect, that number might be higher."
ROFL. They'd become part of America if we asked them really, really nicely, pretty please with a cherry on top?
^ Nope they still wouldn't go for it, but the level of support would likely be higher with a different approach.
^ Maybe from 6% to 7%. You can fault Trump's approach all you want, but anyone who thinks any president could cajole Greenland into becoming a state is delusional.
Which begs the question, why does Trump continue to embarrass the US by still pushing on this?
^ Distracting libs.
Maybe a distraction from his failure to address inflation and kitchen table issues for average Americans.
^ Trump has 4 years of inflationary policy to undo. Getting rid of government waste is a good first step. He's only been in a month.
x.com
Mark Penn
@Mark_Penn
Voters are mostly liking what they see in the first month of the new presidency. By 57/43 voters say Trump doing a better job than Biden in advance look at poll coming out Monday.
Job approval at 52 but closing the border, cutting waste are hugely popular. So is resetting merit as the prime hiring and contracting principle.
They don’t agree with everything being done (ie Gulf of America), but overall, people feel much better about the direction of the country and the economy.
Democrats are cratering, down to 36% approval. Schumer’s ratings are a lot lower than Elon Musk. Voters are looking back on Biden presidency and the Dem Party years and scratching their heads on how they tolerated it.
Twitter / X is not a credible news source LMAO
^ You think NYT and WaPo are, ROTFLMAO.
ABC and CBS cite the same poll.
Find a better source, or consider yourself to have sucked my dick.
Try Gallup. Trump Term 1 and Term 2 are both at the bottom of the list.
Trump's Inaugural Approval Rating Is Historically Low Again
news.gallup.com
^ And still way the fuck better than the Potted Plant.
If that's some kind of reference to Biden, you're wrong again.
Biden Approval Rating 2021 Jan 21-Feb 2........... 57% Approve, 37% Disapprove
Trump Approval Rating 2025 Jan 21-27.......... 47% Approve, 48% Disapprove
^ All you can do is attack the source. Poll comes out Monday.
I wasn't aware "whining like a bitch" was one of the 5 stages of grieving but you appear stuck there.
No whining, just facts. Your debate skills truly sucked balls today.
^ You said Trump not being nice to Greenland is the reason they don't want us to annex them.
Cry more.
Nope I said they still wouldn't go for it, but the level of support would likely be higher with a different approach.
You're a liar, as well as a bad debater.
^ And I'm sure America's future hinges on a couple points of approval rating in Greenland are the difference between succeeding or failing as a nation.
Good lord you Dems are a bunch of drama queens.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
Nobody thinks America's future depends on Greenland, except maybe Trump. Another lame deflection.
Why don't you go over to Fox News and pleasure yourself, you've had a rough day.
^ LOL, which explains your fixation on it. Man, he has you in such a tizzy.
===> "European democracies can chose their own destiny and form of government. What some Americans think about it matters little."
@wild4testes: Were it only that simple. Like it or not, what happens in Europe matters here too. We do not exist in a vacuum. We have deep social, cultural and economic ties to Europe.
In the most immediate, European countries and Australia have been threatening to pursue legal action against U.S. social media companies for "harmful content" originating outside of their borders. How could these companies realistically enforce this sort of censorship without censoring everyone globally or walling off these countries from the rest of the world? The short answer is that they cannot, which makes it more important than ever that the U.S. get the message across loud and clear that it simply will not tolerate this.
But more broadly speaking, once it becomes acceptable in democratic societies to censor or even arrest people for speaking opposing opinions, it emboldens others who would embrace the same approach. The Biden administration very much tried to emulate this model by privately berating and threatening social media companies to censor "disinformation" and others opinions which they found disagreeable.
Then, once it becomes acceptable to govern under the assumption that your people are just too stupid be allowed unfettered access to competing views, other bad behaviors are just a shoe drop away. Romania, an EU member state, just canceled it's presidential election after voting had already begun, using Russian social media election influence as the excuse.
The reason that Trump is receiving such resounding support from social media companies is because they can see the writing on the wall if this behavior is allowed to take firm root. This is what made Vance's speech both very timely and entirely on point.
^ not interested in debating on the subject
Just one simple point for you
The reason that Trump is receiving such resounding support from social media companies is because they can see the writing on the wall if this
The writing on the wall says, Trumps the POTUS, we’ll make more money humoring him than wasting energy fighting his agenda.
Fixed it for ya Rick buddy.
^ 25, Musk, owner of Twitter, was on the Trump train long before it was known whether Trump would get elected. He was also telling the Biden administration to go pound sand once he took control of Twitter and reinstated a number of accounts, including Trump's.
Zuckerberg, owner of Facebook, was far more cautious when the Biden gestapo was in charge. But since then he has eagerly ditched the hired censors and voluntarily and very publicly shared countless tales of Biden Administration officials threatening his staff when they wanted something removed.
This is a lot more than mere humoring.
^ it’s all about the Benjamin’s buddy, these billionaires don’t give a fuck, the policies have little impact on them personally, whatever position makes them the most money that’s the position they’ll take.
^How does that make them different than everybody else, other than scale?
^ It doesn’t, Dugan seems to be claiming they’re cozying up to Trump because of ideology, or some sort of morality, I’m just pointing out that it’s purely financial, nothing else.
@25: Because they're billionaires means that they don't care about free speech? Not only is that an asinine comment, but it is definitely not born out by Musk's behavior. Having one political party hostile to him is not exactly a winning strategy if money is his only goal. The success of Tesla, Starlink and Twitter all rely upon adoption by a broad swath of people. And Zuckerberg was under no obligation to go so far as to cough up all the Biden Administration abuses - the people behind it haven't gone away and will eventually be in power again.
^ like I said this ain’t up for debate, you’re allowed to be as naive as you like, IDGAF, it’s purely transactional, including Musk, more than 50% of Musk’s financing is taxpayer dollars, Space X, Starlink, The Boring Company, etc…. what do you expect from a purely transactional, self indulgent billionaire like President Trump.
Believe what you like, it doesn’t matter to me what you think about their motives. They ain’t gonna be affected by anything that happens or any legislation that passes, they’re not going to all of these guys are gonna do what they want.
^ *they’re not gonna miss a meal or a vacation or anything else, these guys are gonna do what they want
^@Rickdugan: Well stated.
I do believe Elon's takeover of X was about the 1stA's gov't control, censorship and suppression. No one has been "damaged" by X as the Leftist Karens screamed about. If anything it has really improved. And, I like GROK way better than ChatGBT - these AI things are still in their infancy and due diligence is needed.
I also think he saw the abuses & lawfare Trump was hammered with the past 4 years, including getting shot and 2 assassination attempts was enough is enough.
^ 25, even if you were right, the other 50% is not taxpayer dollars. And how does he help himself on the taxpayer front by pissing off a party who will be back in charge at some point? Or by pissing off Tesla and Starlink private purchasers who support the Dems? Heck Tesla shares have been on a steady march downward since he jumped into the DOGE thing, courtesy of pissed off consumers and shareholders.
Nah, if all he cared about was the dollars, he would have stayed out of politics and sucked up to both sides, like most large corporations do. I am hardly naive, but if his angle if purely financial I'm struggling to see how he's helping himself. It's more like the guy already has more money than he will ever be able to spend in several lifetimes, so now he's indulging his personal desires.
^ Okey Dokey, Rick, this isn’t even a debate this is pure naïveté.
harvardharrispoll.com
Waiting for @wld and the rest of the Lib Cope Squad (aka Devoted Suckers of Puddy Tat's Dick Club) to spin this one!
81% of Americans, including 70% of Democrats and 80% of Independents, support deporting illegal aliens who have committed crimes.
76% of Americans support a "full-scale effort" to eliminate government fraud and waste.
76% of Americans want to close the border and add extra security.
69% of Americans, including half of all Democrats, want to ban men from women's sports - and a similar number want the government to declare that there are only two sexes.
70% of Americans said government should hire people "strictly on the basis of merit and objective evaluations."
79% of Americans said the government should make sure that categories "like race, gender, and religion" are not used to discriminate against applicants.
66% of Americans, including more than a third of Democrats, think Democrats shouldn't oppose everything Trump is doing out of the gate and help Trump eliminate government waste.
58% of Americans say Trump is doing a better job than Biden.
Republican party approval rating is 51%
Democratic party approval rating is 36%
Donald Trump's approval rating +7%
The following Democratic leaders and no Republican leaders are are -10% net approval or worse: Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, AOC, Chuck Schumer, Andrew Cuomo, Eric Adams
@Mogul: I actually agree. And now he's using Twitter as a platform to take the fight global.
It's relatively easy in the U.S., with such strong Constitutional protections surrounding free speech, to tell a hostile administration to pound sand. Though it wasn't free as the Biden Administration retaliated by siccing the DOJ and SEC on Musk.
But Musk has also been picking fights in other foreign jurisdictions that he need not engage in, no doubt alienating plenty of people in the process. Obviously we have all heard what he's been doing recently in Europe. But he also recently took a censorship case in Brazil all the way to the Brazilian Supreme Court (he lost, but at least he tried).
He had no valid economic reason for doing any of this. Indeed if I was a public shareholder of Tesla or a private equity investor in any of his other businesses, I'd be downright pissed right now.
^ Tesla, is just as dependent on taxpayer dollars as most of his other companies are, he’s getting licenses to install charging stations all over the country, bidding on limited access toll roads for locations, cutting deals with other auto manufacturers to license charging technologies to use their vehicles, and getting access to regulatory agencies is part of the process, he just made a deal with Mercedes Benz USA to allow them to charge their electric vehicles at his stations, he will need regulatory approvals, he’s getting approvals to license solar batteries and factories, to manufacture the batteries, and getting mining rights for minerals he needs to manufacture the batteries, buddy his tongue is so far up the federal asshole probably deeper than Zuckerberg or Bezos or most of the others, and they too need regulatory approvals and special permits and franchises to run their businesses as well, so don’t keep pushing this altruistic nonsense because that’s exactly what it is, nonsense.
@rick and @25 - As soon as Musk allied with Trump, $TSLA became basically a meme stock, untethered from fundamentals, much like $DJT has been (I don't know anyone with a Truth Social account, do you?)
Of course Musk isn't altruistic. Nor is Zuck or Bezos or Trump himself for that matter. They all see the way the wind is blowing. But that said, I thought the left wanted more EVs and battery storage capacity, so they should welcome this sort of thing.
^ I’m not debating the merits I’m just pointing out this altruistic argument is just plain nutso
@RD
I’m an investor in Tesla and I own ARK Shares which owns Space X I’m not pissed at Musk, he’s been making me a shit pile of money, why would I be pissed at business people for doing business, that’s also nutso
@25: And he's still going to need all of those approvals, taxpayer dollars and other things four years from now. These are not 4 year ventures man, lol. He's also going to need cooperation from several liberal states. He will also want all of these things from several foreign governments.
Yet despite all of that, he's picking fights everywhere. With the Biden Administration when it was in power, with California (Tesla's largest U.S. market by far), with the employees of several federal regulatory agencies (who will no doubt have long memories) and now several other countries. It makes no economic sense whatsoever.
None of Musk's businesses are irreplaceable, except maybe Starlink with its 7,000 satellites in orbit. Just keep that in mind as you continue to hold on to those Tesla and SpaceX investments.
^ so four years from now he’ll put two hundred and seventy five million dollars into another candidate’s campaign, you think with that kind of cash infusion, the new politician won’t be willing to overlook Mr. Musk’s previous transgressions.
You’re being naive
^Dude, he'd have to put money in countless different politicians campaign accounts to even attempt to reverse course for the bad will that he has doubtlessly earned, both here and around the world.
And that still doesn't account for pissing off a large chunk of your potential retail consumers (Tesla), advertisers (Twitter) or potential future commercial customers (other governments, various corporate entities, etc.), who can always go elsewhere for their products.
He could have massively sucked up to Trump without picking all these fights, starting with the Biden Administration (before he knew who would even win the election), CA and countries around the world.
Or getting involved in this DOGE stuff.
There is no way that this is all about money because...it...doesn't...make...economic...sense to pick these fights. Indeed this is precisely why most large corporations typically suck up to politicos on both sides of the aisle. Now I definitely won't go as far as to say it's pure altruism, but there's definitely something else at play. Ego maybe? Legacy? Future political ambitions? Boredom? I'm sure time will tell, but it was all about money he wouldn't be out in the public eye picking one fight after another.
Tbh if I was a Tesla shareholder, I would have dumped it the second he started wading into this DOGE stuff.
^ I’m comfortable with my investments, Kathy Woods seems to be as well.
The wealth that Musk has he could can buy whatever politicians he needs, he paid 44 billion for Twitter, he can buy a new president for less than that buddy.
^ But you still haven't talked about how it makes economic sense to pick all these fights with so many governments and to alienate so many different revenue sources in the process. The short answer is that it doesn't.
Now I'll copy and paste the rest from above:
Now I definitely won't go as far as to say it's pure altruism, but there's definitely something else at play. Ego maybe? Legacy? Future political ambitions? Boredom? I'm sure time will tell, but it was all about money he wouldn't be out in the public eye picking one fight after another.
Oh, and good luck with Kathy Woods, who has lost a lot of people a lot of money and generated mediocre long-term and very short-term returns for the ones lucky enough not to come in 2 or 3 years ago.
I never said it makes sense what I’m saying is it doesn’t matter, nobody is going to refuse to accept his call, don’t you think he knows this, like Trump he enjoys playing the bully.
I’ve made plenty of mistakes but Kathy Woods Ark investments aren’t one of them, you need to learn more about her before making statements like that.
Ark isn’t for everyone and it’s never going to be, but she has access to some great resources that are very valuable.
@PT
Tesla is in no way a meme stock, as of !2/2024 they had 122 Billion in assets on their balance sheet,
and the current market cap is 1.063 Trillion.
That hardly fits the definition of a meme stock, but say what you like.
@25 - It wasn't always, but towards the election it became decoupled from fundamentals.
From Q2 2024 to YE 2024, it jumped by 2.5x. Did its revenues or earnings grow proportionally during that time?
What do you think would happen if Musk had a major falling out with Trump? I bet it would drop by $100 (closed at $330 today).
^ it might but it wouldn’t drop as much as you think, I think the value is there long term, and that’s what separates it from the memes. Comparing it to Truth Social is sort of ridiculous, even comparing TS with X (formerly twitter) is crazy, if Elon went away those stocks would jump in value, and if you look at X it’s pretty much back where it was when musk bought it.
Don’t see any reason to think Musk’s companies are meme stocks, there too much genuine value and that’ll be there in the long run.
^ I agree that there's real value there; just not that much.
👍
Musk gave a speech at the World Governments Summit in Dubai last week, where he said the new administration has less interest in interfering with the affairs of other countries, and that America should "mind its own business". Given the extent to which he and Trump have been doing just the opposite, this is surreal. Maybe he could fool some of the MAGA crowds, but I doubt he's fooling this crowd. What an idiot !
www.youtube.com
And today Trump lied again about Europe's support to Ukraine, but Macron fact-checked him live on the spot.
Trump and Musk are making fools of the US on the international stage.
France’s Macron Brutally Fact Checks Trump to His Face
www.thedailybeast.com
@wld4testes: Maybe grow a pair and stop worrying about what the children who run these other countries think. That definitely includes Macron, who runs a country that is going to shit because they: (1) are taxing and regulating its economy into perpetual stagnation; (2) running a welfare state that cannot continue under its own weight (even when subsidized by Daddy U.S.); (3) have ever increasing outbreaks of violence and civil disobedience that they cannot control; and (4) continue to degrade their citizens' free speech rights.
Besides, it doesn't necessarily hurt for folks to think that Trump may be a bit crazy. You'll notice that the Houthis stopped firing on ships the day that Trump took office, Hamas has been coughing up hostages and it looks increasingly likely that the Ukraine war is going to be settled. The world is quickly becoming a much safer place.
Oh, and speaking of Macron, if Israel had cared what he thought about anything, they'd still be getting attacked on 3 sides. Instead Israel neutered Hamas and Hezbollah and wiped out Iran's air defenses and is much safer a a result. Like I said, Macron is a child with a fluffy view of real world realities.
@rickdugan - @wld and the rest of the lib cope squad never read Machiavelli, and realized it's better to be feared or respected rather than loved. Obama and Biden didn't ask much of them, Trump does. We got pussified under the first two. Had our bluff called in Syria. Embarrassed ourselves in Afghanistan. Russia made their incursions. While it's not pleasant for them, the world is a safer place under Trump.
By hating their home, they can feel superior to those mouth breathing American poors that don't own passports. Kind of the same reason they love flaunting trans children; it says "I'm more enlightened than you," forget that they have to inflict it on their poor kids in the first place.
Europe is what they want to be; managed, comfortable decline, loss of their identity, and with the moral superiority of importing people that want to kill and enslave them. Israel and most of America have an identity that they want to adhere to and believe their way of life is worth fighting for.
What a big nothing burger of a topic!
Macron is trying to rally Europe, he doesn't expect that anything he says will back Trump down. Even if Trump could be convinced about Ukraine the way Johnson was, it will only mean Ukraine is really fucked instead of really, really fucked. A lot of immigrants are going to undeservedly to feed as red meat to hysterical MAGA. Unless we get very lucky, history will remember us as the most self-defeating society ever. Assuming that we don't trigger a dark age, after which we are only remembered in some mythical way.
^ Ukraine is pretty fucked regardless; they're literally running out of soldiers. All the equipment we send can't change that.
Ilb, did you have a real point in all of that hysterical hyperbole? Red meat? Hysterical MAGA? Most self-defeating society ever? A dark age? LMAO. Care to elaborate an exactly how most of these things will come to be and what you think that really means? 😆
Defend Trump all you want, won’t change his disgusting appeasement of Vladimir Putin.
^ I'm not defending Trump (perhaps others are?), but I want to see some kind of exit strategy. I've spoken to a couple good friends, one with a Master's in International Relations with a specialty in Russia, and one who grew up in the USSR, and they say we fucked up by putting restrictive rules of engagement on initial shipments. Now, we're negotiating from a much worse position.
Saying the only successful outcome is to completely drive Putin out ignores reality. How much are we willing to spend? Are we willing to put American or NATO boots on the ground? Even Ukrainians are in favor of a land for peace deal, now.
I want to see a strategy to win. We haven't acted like we have one.
^ The Ukrainians can win, support them, stop undermining them, they had the Russians on their back foot until Trump and the Republican congress started fucking around with their support.
Lousy chickenshit phony bastards throwing our allies under the bus.Ukraine gave up their nukes, because we promised them security.
The world is watching this is noted by both our friends and enemies.
^ Trump has barely been in office a month. They were in trouble long before that.
Yep, they’ve been taking orders from Trump since the Congress flipped from Democrats to Republicans.
That’s when the money and material support stopped, that’s on MAGA.
Yeah, what a bunch of assholes for not supporting an area of the world that sided with the nazis. People forget that the whole Ukraine fuck up is on Obama, who interfered with their democratic elections when a candidate whom he disapproved of won. As much as I consider the Russians the enemy, Obama fucked this up, just like his fuck up with Iran has caused about 60,000 deaths so far.
^ say what you want, nothing you or any one else says will erase this shameful U. N. Resolution that is now permanently a part of Trump’s record. Imagine the United States voting in support of Russia along with Iran, North Korea, etc Al; what a humiliating display of appeasement. What a stain on Trump’s presidency
I'm actually going to agree with the resident libtards on the U.N. resolution. IMO it was a poor look for the U.S.
With that said, it was a completely meaningless resolution in any event with no practical consequences. I suspect that Trump didn't want to poison the well as he enters into peace negotiations with Putin. I'll reserve final judgment for whatever peace agreement is hammered out, but I agree that this resolution exercise was not encouraging.
^ I'd say that anyone trying to defend that shameful resolution is a libtard and a coward.
Neville Chamberlain couldn't have done any better
^25, let's not overhype it now. Even if it had passed as drafted, it was a meaningless gesture with no real world consequences.
Like I said, I agree that it wasn't a good look. But this hardly rises to the level of what Never Chamberlain did, lol.
I suspect that Trump is a ticked off because Ukraine didn't bend over on the rare earth mineral rights request. Tbh I can kind of see Trump's point. We have spent almost $200 billion on aid to Ukraine since the war began. It's not totally unreasonable for the U.S. to ask for something in return, especially when Ukraine is not doing much with them anyway while they are something we very much need.
Heck, Putin is playing around with it now by floating rumors in our media posts that he'd be willing to grant mineral rights to the U.S. in the parts of Ukraine that Russia occupies. LMAO. Obviously the subtext here is that Russia would need to retain that territory in order to grant those rights. Let the games begin!
^ Over hype it are you fucking nuts, he surrendered in our name, that fat fucking coward.He's a fucking draft dodging cunt with no fucking honor.
Yes, overhype it. It was a meaningless gesture anyway. My guess is that he didn't want to back Putin into a face saving corner before the peace negotiations had even begun.
But hey man, I won't completely disagree with your feelings about his character. Most people don't know a lot about his business history since his company is private. But anyone working in NYC in real-estate services or project debt financing (including many hedge fund managers) in the 90s and 2000s knows his history all too well. I think you and I both fall into that category.
To this day there are many private fund managers who finance real-estate projects who wouldn't dream of touching anything with the Trump name on it. He burned a lot of people through 6 separate property bankruptcies. The first one in '91 almost cost him his shirt because he had made some personal guarantees relating to the business. But he managed to squeak out of that one and never made the same mistake again, lol.
But on this I can only say let's wait and see how the real game shakes out, which is the peace negotiation.
Rumor is it that Trump and Zelenskyy are going to sign a minerals deal.
(No, Axios is NOT a conservative site.)
www.axios.com
Who knows if this is true; could be another Trump tactic, but if Trump can tell Putin hey, we've got our own interests to defend in there, it changes the calculus.
Only a fool would think that with the US in retreat, cutting the defense budget, and compromising with dictators, the world is a safer place.
Fuck Puddy, you just beat me to it. I was about to post a big THIS JUST IN: UKRAINE HAS AGREED TO A JOINT MINERAL RIGHTS DEVELOPMENT DEAL WITH THE U.S!
I'm more convinced than ever now that this was what the whole U.N. resolution thing was all about. Zelensky was resisting a mineral rights deal, the Trump Administration sent a warning shot across the bow that Ukraine could end up on its own, and now a deal has been reached. This does indeed change the calculus as the U.S. will be highly motivated to keep Ukraine free and happy in exchange for those rare earth minerals that we currently rely upon China and other bad actors to obtain. This is a great outcome for us.
Right wld4testest. The world was a much safer place when everyone was firing rockets at everyone else.
The House appropriation bill increases the DoD budget. It's civilian employees that are being cut from DoD, as though they were all interchangeable.
Comrade Putty Tat was saying this last year, and the year before that, and so on. Repeating it over and over. And yet the Ukrainians have held their own well, all things considered, against an army several times larger. Meanwhile Russia had 430,000 casualties last year and had to tap into North Korea to keep up their meat grinder.
He's got zero cred on Ukraine IMO.
Israel wasn't expected to cede OCCUPIED territory except for real peace. It's reasonable that Ukraine won't consider giving up territory except for real peace. Real peace means being in NATO. It's up to Congress whether Ukraine gets more US aid. The US can withhold more aid, but it can't force Ukraine to agree to anything.
You fucking MAGA morons are just a bunch of apologists for this senile, mean spirited, mush mouthed, motherfucker, every time he does something heinously offensive you claim it's a negotiating strategy, If Joe Biden or Barack Obama had said the same thing you'd all be having apoplectic fits, let's be real clear, this man is vile, if you don't have the guts to stand up for what's right I feel sorry for you all.
Not much has happened regarding world peace since Trump was elected. Gaza ceasefire; Lebanon ceasefire; Houthis have stopped attacking ships; Russia advanced no further; China has slowed down their assaults on Taiwan. China's rare earth metals attack on us was just trumped by the Ukraine deal. I guess democrats are made that Harris couldn't follow the Biden weakness example and get more people killed.
25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs.
There's a lot I don't like about Trump. I have never voted for him in a primary and had to hold my nose in each general election. He's a showman and a con artist. A lot of the same gimmicks he has used in the White House are recycled over and over from the same playbook, including the old McDonald's gag that he first used in his first bankruptcy to show that the company was trying to conserve money at a Board meeting and then again at the White House when he was trying to show budget frugality.
But unlike you, as a grown ass man in control of his emotions, I can filter out the noise and separate out the character of the person from the results. On the results front, I very much like what I see. The world is getting safer, horribly destructive DEI, ESG and gender ideology mandates are being rolled back, regulatory agencies are being reigned in, the border is coming under control and he is doing everything he can to reduce out of control government spending. In other words, he is doing everything he can to keep his promises.
Oh, and lest I forget 25, Trump has now even turned a financial black hole of a war in Ukraine into something that could pay off strategically and financially for many years to come. Right now we rely upon China for about 70% of our rare earth minerals, which is obviously an undesirable position to be in from a global strategy perspective.
Like I said, I care about the results more than the noise.
RD you sound like an apologist for Donald Trump, all of this bullshit surrounding an out of control narcissistic bully with self control issues. The majority of your argument is bogus, costs can be reined in without all of this drama, if you think I sound like a shrill woman, you sound like a fucking moron caught up in the cult of Donald J. Trump. This is as much my country as yours, I assure you I am quite in control of my emotions, this apologist behavior , reminds me of the red scare of the 1950s which Trump is desperately trying to recreate.
^ Kind of funny that when Biden opened the borders, cancelled student debt to buy votes and gave away money to anti-American groups, you had nothing to say, despite his Nazi behavior, who were and are socialists like today's democrats. Kind of funny that cutting waste could have been done simply and easily instead of the hysterical way it's being done now, because nothing else ever worked once in history.
"25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs."
That is the most perfectly accurate description of any personality on this site, ever.
^ You are another phony bullshitter, come on here saying how much you despise Trump, yet over and over you endorse not only his policies, but his despicable behavior, you are also a fucking Trump apologist, that's nothing to be proud of.
@25: Yup, I was right. You're deep in the grip of Trump Derangement Syndrome. 😉
One of the telltale symptoms of TDS is to believe that Trump's actions needs to be defended or apologized for, which then leads you to label anyone who supports those actions as an apologist. In essence, you're stuck in an emotional rut.
Given the results he is delivering, I don't know what you think there is to defend or apologize for. Sure he's loud and abrasive, but he's getting getting the job done. If anyone needs a defense, it's that utter waste of a President that we just got rid of, who may have been a nicer guy than Trump, but was dangerously ineffective in foreign policy and in curbing the worst impulses of ideologically extreme people who he appointed to run his administrative state.
"an out of control narcissistic bully with self control issues"
Psychological defense mechanism
Projecting what we hate most about ourselves onto others is a psychological defense mechanism where people attribute their own undesirable traits or impulses to others to avoid inner conflict or stress
I agree with that, while I do not agree with all of his policies and EOs and I did not support his candidacy for the nomination in 2016, Trump has an excellent track record of delivering for America and the free world. Our enemies are taking a step back, our freeloading allies are being forced to step up (if they re-align, were they ever really our allies?), and the corrosive leftist policies of the past four years are being erased from the national landscape. It is unreasonable to expect every action taken to not result in some disruption, especially when so much of what needs to be corrected is institutionalized.
Oh man, 25, you were a few more profanity-laden tirades from making your point.
"You fucking MAGA morons are just a bunch of apologists for this senile, mean spirited, mush mouthed, motherfucker,"
"you sound like a fucking moron caught up in the cult of Donald J. Trump"
"you are also a fucking Trump apologist, that's nothing to be proud of."
You gonna whack us with your cane, gramps?
"Comrade Putty Tat was saying this last year, and the year before that, and so on. Repeating it over and over. And yet the Ukrainians have held their own well, all things considered,"
And comrade Puddy Tat (spell it right, tard bait) was correct, and continues to be correct.
War isn't graded on an "all things considered" curve, it's absolute.
If I had any creds with you, I'd be forced to consider the error of my ways.
You're often wrong though rarely in doubt.
^ "You gonna whack us with your cane"
why bother, you pussies are going to surrender to Putin en masse, if you find the strength to pull your tongues out of your dear leaders asshole.
^ Exactly what I meant
Gamma nailed you well with this one.
"25, you sound like an angry shrill woman who simply hates someone so much that she can't separate her feelings about him as a person from any action he performs."
This is foolish, enjoy your circle jerk, and praise your dear leader, I leave you fools to it, just like the McCarthy era, this too will come to an end.
^ Yes, gramps, we'll miss your factless tirades and analingus references (NinaBambina seems to think about tonguing Trump's asshole enough; you two might have something to talk about over PM).
@25: This is exactly what I mean by a lack of emotional control and Trump Derangement Syndrome. The Trump Administration fails to support one meaningless finger-pointing U.N. resolution, all too obviously to pressure the Ukraine to cave on mineral rights, and now you have us all surrendering to Putin en masse. 😆
Dude, get a grip man, seriously. Let's see how it plays out before we criticize the outcome of a peace negotiation process that hasn't even started, lol.
I actually suspect that Trump is going to play hardball with Russia now that those extremely valuable mineral rights are part of the equation. Or perhaps he will push Ukraine to accept a less advantageous deal if Russia sweetens the pot (as it has already said it might do) with access to mineral rights on Russian occupied territory, but that would also be consistent with Trump's "America First" platform. We shall see.
@Puddy Tat : Credit to RickDugan for the spot-on analysis of our fellow poster.
Sadly 25 is hardly alone with these emotional control issues. As someone who grew up in one of the most liberal states in the country and went to college in the same, I spent my formative years surrounded by people like this.
For them it's all about feel good politics and policies. This is why DEI, ESG and gender ideology programs register to positively with them. They want to feel like they are part of some moral crusade and on the side of right, regardless of the real world consequences. Effective governance, common sense and even honesty are very distant seconds for them if they even register at all.
This is why wld4testes keeps getting his panties in a knot every time he thinks that Trump is being crude or reckless with our allies and "embarrassing us" in the process. It rubs sharply against both his feel good sensitivities and his belief that we should be more closely emulating Europe's approach to governance. It's also why 25 loses his damned mind every time Trump utters abrasive approach makes 25 lose his damned mind all the time. Neither of them cares about effective governance, common sense or even practical results. They just want to feel good and Trump makes it hard for them to do that.
But again, there are a lot of these people out there. They are also becoming increasingly concentrated in certain states, like CA and NY. And not surprisingly, these states, much like Europe, have been doing tremendous damage to their tax bases, budgets, energy grids, gas an energy prices as a result of embracing these same asinine feel good policies. Yet people in these places keep voting for the politicos who do this stuff to them.
Spending my formative years hanging out in Cambridge, Mass, attending U.Mass. Amherst (in the amazingly even more liberal pioneer valley) and attending law school and grad school in Boston, followed up by not being a member for 43 years of the even more liberal Massachusetts Bar Association, I have been hanging out with liberals my whole life. As you get older you see friends and relatives die. Anecdotally it seems that my liberal buds go at a much higher rate than my right wing buds.
RD the meaningless UN resolution you refer to is pure cowardice, we’re Americans we don’t cave to dictators making demands of us. The only reason there is a Russia today is because we Americans saved the Russians from Germany, 70 years ago, Donald Trump has dishonored the sacrifices made by our fathers not the first time either, you should be ashamed of your collective selves. A fucking draft dodger and a coward is who you folks are supporting
Shameful
25, copied and pasted from above. Until you can provide a substantive disagreement, then everything I said about you being a shrill hyper-emotional woman who only cares about feel good nonsense still holds...
Unlike you, as a grown ass man in control of his emotions, I can filter out the noise and separate out the character of the person from the results. On the results front, I very much like what I see. The world is getting safer, horribly destructive DEI, ESG and gender ideology mandates are being rolled back, regulatory agencies are being reigned in, the border is coming under control and he is doing everything he can to reduce out of control government spending. In other words, he is doing everything he can to keep his promises.
Trump has now even turned a financial black hole of a war in Ukraine into something that could pay off strategically and financially for many years to come. Right now we rely upon China for about 70% of our rare earth minerals, which is obviously an undesirable position to be in from a global strategy perspective.
Like I said, I care about the results more than the noise.
One more thing my loathing of that coward is not Trump Derangement Syndrome as y’all like to call it it’s actually something that seems to be lacking in this conversation, it’s called PRINCIPLES, I have them you fellas seem to need to get some.
^25, like it or not, he's the current President. The country knew what it was getting when they voted him in. And on the principles front, he was transparent about what he intended to try to do when in office and now he's doing everything he can to keep his promises. That is a hell of a lot more than can be said for Obama or Biden.
I know his past as well as anyone. But until he gives me some reason to doubt his intentions, which thus far he has not, I won't hold it against him as President.
^ right and I kept my mouth shut until he decided to go ahead and play kiss ass with a dictator and undermine an ally. Principle demands being honest you’re being dishonest by giving this lowlife a pass
^In what universe is Ukraine an ally, let alone an ally we need and provides a benefit? Seems more like an ex-wife collecting alimony than a benefit. I don't like the look of Trump cuddling up to our enemy, but on the bright side I didn't like our enemy cuddling up to China. Like a trade in baseball. I seem to recall a brilliant Red Sox trade for a desperately needed reliever named Larry Anderson. Not only did he help them make the playoffs, but the stupid Astros didn't want starting 3rd baseman and all-star Scott Cooper and took some AA guy.
Of course, the Red Sox got knocked out in the first round, never resigned Larry Anderson, Cooper turned out to suck and that AA guy turned out to be the only guy in the history of baseball to ever have 6 seasons in a row of 30 hrs, 100 Rbis, 100 runs and 100 walks; hit 449 home runs and the only first baseman in history to hit over 400 home runs and steal 200 bases. You not being in the hall is a crime, Jeff Bagwell. As with Trump, let it play out before you declare a victor.
25, again you're ascribing great importance to a meaningless U.N. resolution as a justification for all of your tirades. It was just a negotiating tactic man. Getting those mineral rights could be a huge deal and all it took was a NO vote on a meaningless finger pointing resolution to shake them loose from Ukraine. It's not like the world needed the U.N. to tell them that Russia was the aggressor in this war. 😉
That ground under that little country is estimated to contain 5% of the world's rare earth elements, which are necessary for our energy, tech, aerospace and other critical sectors. Heck Ukraine already produces 7% of the world's titanium, which is critical for space rockets and satellites, among other things. A lot of these other resources are vastly underdeveloped.
This could be an incredible coup for us by dramatically decreasing our reliance upon China. Personally I have no problem with the U.S. recouping something for the $200 billion we have spent helping the Ukraine fight off Russia.
@rickdugan
"This is why wld4testes keeps getting his panties in a knot every time he thinks that Trump is being crude or reckless with our allies and "embarrassing us" in the process. It rubs sharply against both his feel good sensitivities and his belief that we should be more closely emulating Europe's approach to governance. It's also why 25 loses his damned mind every time Trump utters abrasive approach makes 25 lose his damned mind all the time. Neither of them cares about effective governance, common sense or even practical results. They just want to feel good and Trump makes it hard for them to do that."
You hit on a major point of liberal psychology here. Politics is a means to feel good. 25 likes that it presses his anger buttons and makes him feel young and potent and masculine, wld4tatas likes that it makes him feel like a righteous, holy victim.
They say not to accept criticism from anyone you wouldn't accept advice from, and that proves quite true here and not just for the libs. Not just from them, but the effete Euros who have long surrendered any semblance of leadership on the world stage. The American left loves them because they're doing what they want us to be doing, easing ourselves into a comfortable decline, doing penance for our distant past, and otherwise diminishing themselves.
The left also doesn't seem to get that nations are self-interested entities, and they've turned the lesson of the later GWB years on its ear. In rankings of corruption, Ukraine was a CUNT HAIR less corrupt than Russia, and now we're trying to act like it's Denmark when Zelenskyy has squelched internal opposition to a frightening extent. Perhaps we're another self-interested entity and it's not our job to fuck ourselves trying to democratize the world? No, that would make too much sense!
I don't agree with everything Trump is doing (I overall like DOGE but lots of babies thrown out with the bathwater), but comparing 45's foreign policy to 46's, you'd have to be on drugs not to see a safer geopolitical world under Trump. (I'm waiting the Lib Cope Squad to come and try and spin this.)
If we got rare earths and a safer Eastern Europe out of this, I can't wait to see how the LCS would spin that, but they'd find a way. Because Orange Man Bad! Orange Man Bad! Orange Man Bad!
^ geez what a bunch of idiots you guys are, you can’t stand anyone criticizing your beloved leader, just more proof that your clueless about what this country is. Don’t let your feelings get your head turned around.
In America we are free to criticize our government without fear of reprisals, your guy is the biggest liar and crybaby we’ve ever elected to the highest office in this country. If y’all are so confident about this fat tub of shit, why do you respond to every single criticism with personal attacks My hypothesis is you’re all so insecure that you can’t face the reality of what you’ve done.
I do not understand how such blind, deranged, rage can make someone feel good, live well, or enjoy life. Then again, liberals do not seek to understand others nor be understood, they just want validation for their feelings by attacking anyone who dares to disagree with them. Nothing pisses them off more than free speech in the opposition of their beliefs.
Whatever happened to wishing Trump success?
No one's stopping you from criticizing Trump, 25, you think you're owning us a lot harder than you actually are when you criticize him.
We're also not working up our systolic blood pressure to stroke-out levels like you over politics.
I wished Biden success, and I'm sure I'll wish the next Democratic president success, even if I want their agenda blocked.
^^^ Your last comment was beneath you. You sounded like Nancy Pelosi, just better looking.
^Good to know you think I’m better looking than Nancy Pelosi😎
You know, of all recent presidents, none of them have done as many of the items they campaigned on as Donald Trump. In other words, Donald Trump is the most honest president of the last 30 years.
@gamma - That actually came up in a conversation with my dad (a never-Trump Republican) over the weekend. How people think Trump is this complicated character, we agree that he's as simple as it gets. Winning. Self-aggrandizement. All political leaders are like that, but Trump even moreso.
The UN resolution and Trump's deal-making with Putin is a dark turning point in American and world history. It's embarrassing and sickening to many of us.
The main defense seems to be.... it's a bad look but don't worry, it's part of a strategy to get a deal and have peace. But what kind of deal matters immensely.
IMO, the only way Trump can save face on this unfolding disaster is if somehow we get an outcome where Russia is forced out, Ukraine gets it's territory back, and there is a security arrangement to keep Ukraine safe. That Russia is deterred rather than encouraged to do it again. Sure, Europe can and should do more. And sure, if the US can get some mineral rights in the process, great. But otherwise, any net territorial gain would be a win for Putin. This is how it's shaping up at the moment.
If Russia gets a win out of this, Trump will go down in infamy as the US President who enabled it by turning his back on our allies and "deal-making" with Putin. The US President who reversed decades of world order and caved to a dictator. We'll see what happens though, we're not there quite yet.
The US has major deposits of rare earth metals domestically. But there are reasons we prefer to import them: earth.org .
^ Well then, do we want a green electrical grid, or toxic chemicals? Inquiring minds want to know.
Rather a green electrical grid or no toxic chemicals. The left treats CO2 as an "at all costs" emergency, but isn't willing to admit let alone do what it takes to get it. Life has tradeoffs.
I haven't heard any reason yet why private enterprise can't handle where and how mining occurs. Governments should regulate to minimize environmental damage. Wealthy countries should not take advantage of desperate countries, to force all the environmental damage on them.
When Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, Obama did little other than blow some hot air. Obama basically tongued Putin's ass for years.
When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, Biden, to his credit, did much more than that. But even still he played a lot of games, slow rolling key military equipment and ultimately giving the Ukraine just enough to resist, but not enough to actually push Russia out. And every time Biden considered doing more, Putin just uttered the word "nuclear" and Biden piddled his Depends and continued to play games in the name of "not provoking a broader conflict."
But now, after everything that Obama and Biden did to allow this to happen, it is suddenly supposed to be Trump's holy mission to make sure that Russia doesn't keep one square mile more than it had when the most recent invasion started. SMH.
For the liberals here who think that Trump should insist on a complete withdrawal, what should he be willing to do to ensure it? Perhaps provide Ukraine with the air power and long range missiles that Biden denied them? Give Ukraine the green light to keep hitting key military and supply line targets in Russia? And what will you do when he starts using the word "nuclear" again and your favorite left-leaning rags start once again making shrill cries about WW3 on the horizon?
At this point, realism has to play a role. The Russians are entrenched now, thanks in no small part to Biden's cowardice. The cost of pushing them back completely on all fronts is likely higher than anyone wants to pay, including Ukraine.
^ I don't see Ukraine quitting the fight, I agree Biden's overly cautious partial support was disastrous, still the fact is 3 years after Ukraine, which was supposed to be overwhelmed by the Red Army is still fighting, and mostly holding their own. This conversation is purely self serving and doesn't match the facts. Cowardice is despicable no matter how you try to restate it.
If the Ukraine is willing to keep fighting, I don't have a problem with providing them with material support.
Right now the Russians have been exposed as paper tigers, and you folk are still chickenshit. I want to see some leadership from our leaders, not this raw transactional pseudo macho bluster that means nothing.
Tell Putin we don't accept his behavior and back it up, we have the means, I resent our president's (all of them) failure to stand for democracy.
^ 25, I actually would love everything you are suggesting about providing them with material support and letting them continue to grind down the Russian army. I agree that the Russians were far weaker than they appeared on paper and I'd love to see them weaker still.
But the winds have shifted since the war began. You and I are no longer on the side of the majority.
According to a recent Gallup poll, now only 38% of Ukrainians support fighting until complete victory is achieved. 52% of them now want a negotiated peace.
Meanwhile, only 24% of Americans now think that we aren't giving Ukraine enough support. The rest are almost equally divided between too much, just the right amount and unsure.
If Biden had struck when the iron was hot, then maybe we'd have Ukraine completely free and the Russian military in such ruins that contemplating further aggression against their neighbors wouldn't be realistic for many years to come. But the will to keep fighting is waning in Ukraine, as is support here in the U.S. for massive additional pending on the country.
So here we are.
^ Let the Ukrainians make that decision, not a goddamn draft dodger. That’s a decision that those folk that have been fighting and dying are entitled make, not a bunch of pseudo tough guys who’ve never fired a shot in anger, nor felt the pressure of being attacked, and having to defend themselves against a bully with greater strength.
^ When Ukraine foots the bill, they can make the decision independent of us. Otherwise, we can account for our own interests first.
^ you just made yourself irrelevant to this conversation
BTW PT
Some background for you to chew on, before you start your daily routine of bloviating on thing you know very little about
Thirty years ago, on 5 December 1994, at a ceremony in Budapest, Ukraine joined Belarus and Kazakhstan in giving up their nuclear arsenals in return for security guarantees from the United States, the UK, France, China and Russia.Dec
^ Puddy's right 25. When a strong majority of our own people don't want to ramp up military aid to another country and a majority of their people don't want to use it anyway, it's time to re-evaluate.
^ So Vladimir Putin is able to set policy for The United States of America
Fuck off with that shit, I don’t know what the problem is with you guys, but I was raised with a sense of honor, in a country where it matters. If our word means so little to you then we are in bigger trouble than even I thought.
It isn't Putin setting U.S. policy, it is the U.S. President after gauging the feelings of U.S. voters.
Look, I want to make something crystal clear 25: I wish to fuck that Ukrainians were as eager to fight as they previously were and that our citizens were eager to fund whatever it takes to kill another hundred thousand Russian soldiers and blow up much more Russian equipment. But Ukrainian voters are now losing their resolve to keep fighting and American taxpayers are losing their interest in paying for it.
Facts on the ground man. Even if Trump wanted another blowout Ukraine spending package, he might not be able to get Congress to pass it. And even if they did, who will be left in the ever-shrinking Ukrainian Army to use it? Desertions are becoming a real problem now as more and more people lose their will to fight.
^ Bullshit on both, pure unadulterated bullshit
It’s obvious there’s a yellow streak running around but it’s not a good look.
I was pissed when Biden didn’t act when Putin used the N word, but Trump for all of his bluster has gone completely off course.
If we let this go we’re going to lose Taiwan, Africa, and Europe.
All of our alliances will disappear you’ll see this country become isolated, we’ve been down this road before and it’s didn’t work out before and it’s more dangerous now than ever.
^^ BTW the Ukrainians can stop fighting any time they want, that’s up to them, what we are doing is giving Vladimir Putin all of the cards, that’s shameful.
Ooh look, gramps talking tough. Tell not just TUSCL but all ok Ukraine they're a bunch of cowards for wanting a settlement and not to fight to the last! Go out and whack them with your cane!
Anyways, you've gotten your fight for Thursday, February 27, 2025.
Put a red check next to today on your calendar!
^ Stupid statement
What I said is it’s up to Ukrainians what they want but you knew what I said you just put words in my mouth so you’d have a straw man to comment on
Go fuck yourself, if you think this is a fight you should change your name to pissy pussy
After all you’re the one having a fight with a straw man.
Got it 25. So given the choices of...
A. Throw another $1-200 billion at them in military aid in the hopes that they MAY actually decide to it; or
B. Negotiate a peace deal that a majority of Ukrainians want anyway and pick up very much needed rare earth mineral rights in the process...
...you think that we should choose Option A. Okey dokey man. 😉
Looks like Starmer of The UK has put it together for us, he said no peace deal should reward the aggressor and Britain is willing to put both boots on the ground and planes in the air to provide security guarantees
As to your question above either option is fine with me as long as the Ukrainians want it to happen.
The most likely outcome of direct conflict between the UK and Russia is invocation of Article 5. 25 has been wishing for this since the conflict began. The most obvious result of an invocation of NATO Article 5 is a full nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia. China will be left to rule over the ashes of a nuclear holocaust. How does this make any sense?
Ukraine is not a NATO member. The United States of America has no vital national interest in Ukraine regaining its lost territory. If Ukraine had voted for better and more honest politicians, fewer military funds would have been diverted into the offshore bank accounts of their leaders and they might have even warded off an invasion. The United States needs to reiterate its firm commitment to defend the existing NATO alliance (even the freeloaders who are not meeting their treaty obligations) at every opportunity, but Ukraine is not one of them is too far off the NATO membership requirements to receive any security or defense guarantees.
@Gam: Yes they are not NATO members, but we did make security guarantees to Ukraine in exchange for them turning over their nukes. Google "Budapest Memorandum."
So, isn't Trump officially a ROB now? He's more than 3 months overdue stopping the war in the Ukraine.
@RD
This is the problem too many here want to make this some sort of political issue, it’s far from a political issue, it’s a moral principle that we must not allow to be violated. This conversation gets diverted by people that make assumptions based on what they want from their leaders. This dilemma is completely about the character of our leadership, it has less than nothing to do with whether there is a “D” or an “R” in front of their title.
If we don’t do what is necessary and right we violate a sacred duty, and that will violate our own moral values.
Based on comments from the MAGA supporters here, Putin is implementing his playbook wonderfully and according to plan. He'd be grinning ear to ear at some of the statements being made.
@25: I actually agree with everything you said about morality issue. The whole point of the Budapest Memorandum was to give them assurances that we and the other signatories would step in if Russia attacked them after they gave up their nukes. It's also about others knowing that we will keep our word.
But I just don't see a practical outcome that includes completely restoring Ukraine's lost territory. The time to do that would have been when Ukraine still had the will to fight, the front line was still very fluid and there was broad support in the U.S. to support those efforts. But thanks to Biden's cowardice, that ship has sailed. The Russians have had too much time to dig in and fortify the new front line.
The cost of forcing them out now would be extremely high both economically and in human lives. Nobody seems to be willing to pay that tab now and that includes the American taxpayers AND the Ukrainians. There's a reason why Zelensky is embracing the peace negotiation - it's because he knows that he's losing domestic support to keep fighting.
===> "Putin is implementing his playbook wonderfully and according to plan. He'd be grinning ear to ear at some of the statements being made."
@wld4testes: Only if was as goofy a dipshit as you. Putin's plan was to seize control of Ukraine. Instead he's lost 100,000 troops, paid a steep economic price for the war and learned that his military forces were far weaker than he was led to believe by his Generals. Now he's just looking for a face-saving off ramp. Russia has a very long road ahead to recover from this and rebuild its military infrastructure.
@RD
All I can say is if Putin is allowed to profit from his aggression, the next, will be the Uzbekistan, and Khazakistan, then the Baltic states, if you think the cost will be too high now, wait and see the costs a few years down the road, it will be the old Domino Theory on steroids, coming back to life, that will be the third world war, only this time, we can't hide behind an ocean, it will be fought here as well.
Putin's --current-- playbook is to keep up the war effort and the propaganda to wear down the West's interest and will to fight. His success is clearly demonstrated by the comments from the MAGA crowd here.
"The United States of America has no vital national interest in Ukraine regaining its lost territory"
"Ukraine is running out of soldiers"
"The cost of forcing them out now would be extremely high"
Putin would be thrilled at this, it's exactly his plan.
If Ukraine and New Hampshire believe in living free or dying, it's not up to less brave people to tell them they shouldn't. For the US, the choice is do we make it a spending priority to deter and sanction criminal acts (by countries as well as people)? Or, do we just hope the criminals turn nicer, or only victimize others?
Right, so acknowledging the reality on the ground and acting accordingly makes you a Putin sympathizer.
If Trump gets this mineral deal done and the war ends as a result, I expect you to be singing Trump’s praises. Though more likely you'll complain that he wasn't nice enough about it.
Ukraine wants this to end. The numbers are what the numbers are. If they don't want to fight to the last, go ahead and and call them cowards. Or better yet, go to Kyiv and pick up a rifle.
@wld4testes: If you think that Putin is thrilled over the outcome of this war, you're demented. Putin's plan was to seize control of all of Ukraine. Instead he's lost 100,000 troops, lost a shit ton of military equipment and paid a steep economic price for the war, all to gain a relatively modest amount of the country.
In the process, the world learned that Russia's military forces were far weaker than anyone knew. Now that Ukraine has managed to fight Russia almost to a standstill, Putin's just looking for a face-saving off ramp. Russia has a very long road ahead to recover from this and rebuild its military infrastructure.
This was a huge embarrassment for a supposed major power that should have been able to roll the much smaller Ukraine. Putin is hardly grinning over this. In fact, it has undoubtedly weakened him politically.
^ You have a serious reading comprehension problem... go back and read what I wrote.
I'm talking about what Putin wants to happen at this point in the war. What part of that do you not understand ?
On our support of Ukraine....
Biden had the greatest military in the world advising him, I'm not going to second guess their judgement on how fast we moved in our military support. Biden did not continuously back off, look at the three years and you'll see a pattern of incremental escalation. The Russian military is arguably far more degraded now than it would have been with more aggressive action earlier. I'm in no position to say whether a different strategy would have been superior, and neither are any of you.
What I do believe is NATO countries working together can absolutely push Russia out of Ukraine with continued effort and strategic escalation. If NATO stepped up with a more aggressive plan at this point, I think you'd see it reflected in the Ukrainian sentiment polls. I'll happily support my tax dollars going to this cause. I don't want a tax cut. And I don't want my "money back" from the support we provided before... SMH
Biden had a DEI military incorrectly advising him. NATO is the USA. Russia/Ukraine is an EU issue. Their issue, they handle it. I notice the left avoids the fact that had not the execrable Obama not interfered in the electoral process in Ukraine, none of this happens. Every death there is 100% on Democrats and they can add the 48,000 dead terrorists in Gaza to their blood stained hands.
===> "What part of that do you not understand ?"
How incredibly dense you are.
To think that he's "grinning ear to ear" or "thrilled" over any consolation prize is absurd. He went in with the goal of conquering Ukraine and he failed miserably, at great cost to himself and Russia. Anything he manages to salvage from this fiasco will simply be something he tries to leverage to save face.
"Biden had the greatest military in the world advising him." I certainly hope not. If the greatest military got their asses hand to them in Kabul and failed to predict the Hamas attacks on 10/7, we are well and truly fucked.
The greatest military may emerge under Trump 47, as it did under Trump 45.
What happened today at the White House between Trump and Zelinsky was premeditated, and probably Trump has been planning this for a while.
A lot of this likely goes back to Trump's failed effort in his first term to bribe Zelensky to interfere in the 2020 election, which resulted in his first impeachment.
What I’d like to point out is that the European economy is 5X the size of the Russian economy, and defense spending while we consider it insufficient, is still 3X the Russian defense budget, so while I hope we don’t walk away from our obligation to the Ukraine, the Europeans certainly have the ability to pick up the slack if need.
We have been the leader of the free world and the one indispensable nation, if we leave we will have issues to resolve and less friends to assist.
Ukraine may well lose the war badly. But that doesn't mean that just giving up is the best option for them. Didn't work out for the Jewish people, when they didn't fight back against the Nazis. As long as they are willing to fight, it's in the interest of the US that they've got more than their dicks in their hands to fight with. Unless you think the US should roll back its foreign policy to what it was in 1939, it makes no sense to cut off aid to Europe. Putin clearly follows the pre-Gorbachev Russian strategy of pushing the Russian sphere of influence as far West as possible.
But anyways Trumpers may as well party hearty as they burn the world down: www.youtube.com
2024 will be remember as America's Do Me Baby Election.
Agreed @25, and I think the ratio is greater, with Europe including the UK having a GDP over 20T, Russia 2T. Now is the time for Europe to step up as the new leader of the free world. The support for Zelensky and Ukraine is pouring in from European leaders, they just have to back it up with greater financial commitments and action.
Kind of funny watching you fucking sissies wet yourself. What a fucking bunch of losers.
Zelenskyy says it's up to the people of Ukraine, while he suspends elections under martial law. He's also acting bratty and entitled to American funds. If he wants our money, he's gotta play ball.
According to a reliable polling organization, Gallup, Ukraine is willing to trade land for peace. It is Zelenskyy who is flouting the will of his people, contra the liberal cope squad here.
Comrade Puddy Tat is missing some other pertinent details.
A majority of Ukrainians support Zelensky, his approval rating is 63% (not the 4% that lying Trump stated). And the Ukraine parliament last week also confirmed the position on no wartime elections, a position that most Ukrainians agree with.
Ukrainians and Russians are basically the same. This isnt just Bidens proxy war. Its a fratricide.
It could have all been avoided. At this point land for peace wont be avoided.
And its easy for Zelensky to be popular when dissent and opposition are illegal
The EU won't start WW3 to keep Zelensky in power
Trump and Vance wanted frank sinatra with Zelensky but couldn't agree on the number of eggrolls
Coz Zelensky had GPS
Of course the lib cope squad captain has to accuse me of being a Russian sympathizer when facts are shoved in his face.
news.gallup.com
"After more than two years of grinding conflict, Ukrainians are increasingly weary of the war with Russia. In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory."
But hey, man. You think Ukraine can force Russia out, pick up a rifle and hop on the nearest flight. Some of us are living in reality.
I've been reading the national and international condemnation of how Trump and Vance acted yesterday, this statement from Rep. Seth Moulton summed it up well:
"The President of the United States is a coward who is Vladimir Putin's puppet. The Vice President is a coward who is Donald Trump's puppet. What we just witnessed was a meeting in the Oval Office between two puppets and a hero."
Oh, and I'm giving the approval rating for actions, not just a person. If his approval rating were in the sixties, he could hold elections without fear.
Trump sent a message; we'll make peace with you, or your successor. Or you'll wage this war on your own. You are not entitled to our support.
You claim trump is putins puppet but wony call zelensky bidens puppet 🤡💩
If you want to support Ukraine go fight
Until late least year, I was an gung ho as anyone about lining up another large aid package for Ukraine, including the advanced weaponry that they have been begging for.
But then I saw the Gallup poll in November which indicated that 52% of Ukrainians wanted a negotiated peace. Then I read stories about increasing desertions and increasingly aggressive forced military conscriptions. And of course all of this is happening in the backdrop of an election that has been suspended for almost a year now.
We can't make Ukrainians fight if they don't want to and ultimately neither can Zelensky, whether he knows it or not. When looking at this whole picture, I seriously question whether it makes sense to throw another fortune in equipment ad Ukraine, especially he advanced stuff. I could easily see a scenario where a lot of this stuff ends up on the black market or, even worse, in Russia's hands.
This was a setup, this didn’t happen generically it was pre planned, there was no reason for this meeting to be televised, none of the earlier meetings with both Starmer of the UK or Macron of France, were broadcast. The intent was to humiliate and intimidate Zelenskyy, and it backfired on them terribly. If a poll were to be held my bet is Americans disapproved of this charade by the administration.
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com
Trump's "deal" to Ukraine was complete bullshit too. 500 B in minerals to pay back the US for aid already provided, but we only provided 120 B in aid, and it was not a loan or a debt. With no guarantee of more support or security to Ukraine, just some vague words to not worry, the US would protect it's investment. Zelensky didn't fall for it, good for him.
It's pretty pointless to expect any explanation from Trump, he either weasel words, or contradicts himself. But since Vance drank the MAGA koolaid, his statements have at least been coherent. So, my question for Vance is, why are we staying in NATO at all? Why don't they ask the Congress for a vote to withdraw from NATO? Putin has all the same reasons to attack the Baltic states as he had to attack Ukraine. NATO won't kick out the Baltic states, so, we should get out of NATO if we're fine with what Putin is doing.
www.youtube.com