I challenge y’all to go on the record with an economic prediction between today and November after the election.
I’ll start. I predict GDP growth to slow from 2.4% to 1.2%. I’m basing this on my industry, reading the news, and number of PLs at my regular clubs.
Someone smarter than me (most of you) please suggest a better metric that we can use to confirm your guesses in November.
I predict I will pay no attention at all to government figures about the economy, nor any news sources, because they will all have statistics to back up their OPINION and while statistics never lie, people always do.
The last GDP growth number I saw was Q1 2024, which was +1.4%. I don't think Q2 numbers are out yet, but where are you getting the 2.4% from?
If I had to guess, I'd wager Q2 stays around ~1.5 percent, and I predict the goldilocks economy to continue through Q3, maybe slowing just slightly to grow a little more than a %.
And FWIW, the Q3 2024 numbers are what matters most for November. You can basically predict whether the incumbent party will stay or not based on the growth rate from Q3 in an election year.
^ looks like we’ll get an interest rate cut prior to the election, of course Trump will loose his marbles over it, especially if it hammers in October
^ According to Powell some unemployment is necessary, we’ll see what they do, I think they’ll show their hand next month after the PPI numbers are published.
I won’t make a prediction but I will make a statement, the economy has become more about the haves and have nots. We are seeing a wider gap between the two, as those who “have” appreciable assets (real estate/stocks/bonds) are seeing their net worth grow to new heights allowing a sizable cushion to continue their lifestyle. Those who “don’t have” assets to fall back on and live in the margins are continuing to get squeezed out of possibly climbing toward financial independence since they aren’t able to save up and purchase those assets because most of their income goes to getting by.
Wages are still rising as corporate profits haven’t slowed enough to reign in their investments/costs towards labor. I work with individuals on a personal basis, and those people who’ve been in their homes and had the same job security for years are allocating much larger portion of income towards savings and investments.
If anything that will slow this economy down will be fiscal policy, which will likely happen if we get a divided government after the elections. It’ll be hard to change the sunsetting tax code after calendar year 2025, when many taxes will go back in effect to where they were prior to the tax cuts and jobs act passed in 2017 goes to expire. If this happens there will likely be a slow down starting next year in preparation for higher taxes.
Heard something somewhere about instability, thought it was a wise comment and a paradigm shift for my thinking. It went like this.
A. the traditional thinking has always been that stock markets (and investors) thrive on stability B. Trump is the poster-child for instability C. but some modern businesses have opted in favor of instability because they have learned that they can actually profit exceptionally off of it
Whether you support or oppose Trump, the above is interesting long-view analysis of the economic impact of the "new world view" that comes along with the MAGA movement. News outlets that benefit from distributing extreme views fuel his rise; deliberate divisiveness supports his political chances; a prediction of capricious and unpredictable market governance decisions would SEEM to motivate the moderate or conservative investor to avoid voting for him; but there's money to be made in the context of all that madness.
I had always assumed, all my adult investing life, that whichever candidate is best for stability (boring!) is probably best for the investment markets (stocks futures funds bonds metals you-name-it). But maybe the new world order means that this stability assumption is no longer true.
@puddy tat there's a paywall to that article, I don't do ft online
@mate27 I agree on your statement about the haves vs the have-nots. I'll add to it, that the supreme idiocy of the Biden camp is radically displayed by their inability to either gesture doing anything about it, or even recognize that the income disparity exists. It took his people MUCH TOO LONG to talk him down from making positive statements about Bidenomics. I vote Democrat almost 100% of the time but I'm profoundly disappointed that this party doesn't do much for the common man any more.
It all depends on who wins.
If Biden wins we will get more of the same- more inflation. More countries unlinking from the USD. More companies leaving for overseas. More shuttered store fronts on Main Street. More Wall Street gains which only benefit the top 1% of democrat donors.
If Trump wins - he will have a long, hard, uphill fight to decouple from China. We will see an administration empower small and midsize American business to push back against mega-corporations. OPEC will return to the dollar as their default pricing currency. Wasteful green spending will be cut. America will return to being net energy exporter. Unemployment will drop, especially for minorities.
Before you scoff- just remember he did all of this before. Economists predicted he would crash the economy then, but instead it grew to new heights. He created GDP growth which Obama claimed would never happen again. His policies created the lowest minority unemployment rates in history. Go by his track record.
@ Puddy Tat
"Problem is, both sides are of the rich. More classically the Republicans, but now the Democrats own college-educated coastal voters who are more concerned with pushing luxury beliefs than helping the working man. I don't think Trump will do much for the working man, other than curtailing immigration which exerts downward prices on wages, but he at least doesn't hold people who shoot guns and attend church in contempt."
This is all true and sums up the sea-change in political poles. I'm ready to kick some Democrat strategists in the head for their stupidity on this obvious point.
Q2 economic numbers are out. Growth accelerated to 2.8%, far outpacing expectations. This Biden Goldilocks economy shows no signs of stopping.
But I’m sure the Trump cultists will be here shortly to explain why economic growth is actually a bad thing.
It’s good news. I don’t care about the political implications.
Statistics from the government are such bullshit. Growth accelerated to 2.8% lmao. People fucking suffering every day and the Biden ass lickers are pretending things are good, which they are, for rich elitists. Economic growth is good except when Democratic Party policies kill the fucking economy and then cheer an alleged 2.8% acceleration. Just a lie. Just a distortion of fact Just a distortion of history, but the be fair this was Winston Smith's job and the Democrats are following the handbook, written 76 years ago.
^ 👍
^That was for Stud me 83
@skibum's response to these terrific growth numbers: 👉😑👈
I mean, if you can't trust the commerce department's numbers, what numbers can you trust?
As time passes and we get further away from 2020, the economy will improve. Not sure anyone can or should take credit, but it’s certainly good news. We’re better off than the rest of the world but we need more. The Fed should start dropping rates, though I’m a bit dubious of how much impact that has on inflation. Lower rates certainly helps businesses. My company has a significant amount of floating rate debt and those quarter point moves reduce our interest expense burden by significant dollars.
That’s fair Puddy. What’s your opinion on Trump telling Powell he shouldn’t reduce rates before the election and also saying he won’t fire Powell? Isn’t the implication there a quid pro quo - if you don’t lower rates which could be good for the economy I’ll let you keep your job. That looks like rooting against America.
I didn’t doubt you’d rationalize it in favor of Trump. I’m not even casting aspersions about it. My perspective is equally valid and consistent with yours. “Trump looks out for Trump” is his only guiding principle.
@puddy
I can just as easily talk about how much growth has come in the public sector, the change in price levels that can't be undone, record personal debt, record small business failures.
I could also make a bunch of wild claims unsupported by any evidence. But that wouldn't convince anyone who was on the fence. So I'm curious what evidence you'd show to support these claims. Especially the one about growth being public sector.
The article I read this morning washingtonpost.com said, "Consumer spending, business investments and new inventory drove almost all of the second quarter’s growth."
Tangentially, the article also mentions a slow down in home construction as a drag on growth. That problem might be solved by a rate cut in September. I've said this before but Q3 growth in an election year is one of the best tea leaves there is, and it looks like we're headed for a solid Q3.
You may wash tge egg off your face now ;)
My dude, I am never going to apologize for asking for sources. I would prefer you just include them from the start if you're going to make bold claims. And additionally, I don't think these sources fully support the bold claims you've made.
Biden administration has a record high percentage of public sector jobs
Your source says "25% of New Jobs Are In Government", and also elaborates that "Employment gains in government span the federal, state and local levels, with a substantial increase in hiring compared to the previous year. This surge is partly a response to the vacancies left by public servants who exited their roles during the pandemic, alongside efforts to bolster public services that may have been understaffed or overwhelmed in the preceding years." I don't personally see the problem here.
That source is also 2 quarters old. As I mentioned earlier, this quarter's surprising +2.8 growth is attributable to "Consumer spending, business investments and new inventory drove almost all of the second quarter’s growth."
Change in price levels is everywhere and undisputed,
I'm not sure exactly what you want me to take away from this source. GDP grew more under Biden than Trump. Debt grew higher under Trump than Biden. And yes, inflation grew under Biden, but it's root causes all happened under the Trump administration. Trump juiced the economy with tax cuts for the rich right before the pandemic, which in combination with his pandemic spending caused record debt that drove inflation.
Record amount of credit card debt
This wasn't on my radar, but I appreciate source. Something to keep an eye on. I'm also wondering if it's trending downward now that inflation has eased, this is 6 months old... but I can't find more recent data.
Small business bankruptcies here
There's no link to the S&P data and I can't find it on my own. I'm also highly skeptical because what would the S&P know about small business failures?
GOP plans for the economy more trusted than Democrats'
It's a good poll, but it happens to from when Biden was still the nominee and before the terrific growth numbers we saw this AM.
All bets are off now, we need new polling, and then I would be eager to see the cross tabs on the new polling.
No such thing for tax cuts for the rich. Blatant and ignorant lie. Taxes were cut across the board and when they expire next year, people are going to howl. In some way maybe its best if it happens with the Democrats in control. A little suffering now, might avoid their tragedy later. If inflation under Biden was because of Trump's policies, then the record growth under Biden is due to Trump's policies. Lies, lies and more lies.
I've always been told to believe that Republicans always implement tax cuts for the rich and that the poor and middle classes seldom see benefit to their taxation under Republicans. I would wish for proof that this is not the case.
Also @Puddy just a note on the cross tab on the economy, from your reuters survey: reuters.com
That doesn't show that "voters trust the GOP more on the economy." It shows, that voters whose primary issue is the economy prefer the GOP. Two pretty different things. I wouldn't expect the trend on that cross tab to change: if you think the economy is doing well (and, it actually is) the economy is probably not your number 1 issue. If you're primarily informed by Fox News or right-wing social media spewing doom and gloom about the economy, you're probably not voting for the incumbent party.
The extremism cross tab is really interesting to me.
The latest good economic numbers continue to expose the lies Republicans have tried to peddle to Americans for years.
It's also well documented that the economy tends to perform better under Democratic presidents than Republican. For example, annual real GDP growth has averaged 3.79% under Democratic administrations vs. 2.60% under Republican. epi.org
When confronted with favorable economic data, Puddy Tat always trots out this line that Dems are telling Americans they are dumb. What a moronic statement.
I don’t like to make predictions, but I won’t be surprised by the S & P rising above 5800.