BMW, Volvo & Subaru

I rented a BMW X3 this week. While it was nice, I don't think it was any better than a domestic crossover from Ford or GM. I get to pick what I want in the Hertz lot and was attracted to the shiny name since I had never driven one. Wasn't bad but I wouldn't pay extra for it.

I had a very worn beat 89 325 with a stick and I really enjoyed that car. I kind of got my eye open for another similar bmw but it's got to be the six with a stick.

You didn’t ask for other options - but why not consider a Lexus? Unless you want high speed performance and gadgets - and I’m guessing not since you mentioned Subaru and Volvo - the quality and dependability of a Lexus easily outdistances BMW. You will save many thousands of dollars in maintenance costs. And you’ll hit $250k miles with little effort.

I'd stick with Subaru unless you need/want the status points. I drove a BMW and an Audi (both briefly) and both were expensive ball-aches. Never again.

The Tesla Model Y is a direct competitor of the BMW X3. It’s comparable in size and price, is AWD, but has nearly twice the horsepower. Plus, it costs about 10% as much to fuel. And, you can pre-heat your car from your phone before getting in.

On the downside, it gets less range in winter weather. Maybe 250 miles instead of 325.

Toyota Supra. I’m a domestic GM buyer, but you bought Subaru so I figured you are OK with Japanese, too. The Supra doesn’t have much room, but it has great sporty performance and mechanically sound for years of durability while keeping one well under budget. This is what consumer reports told me in their latest edition.

Best 4WD vehicle I ever owned was a Denali, got 375K miles before I traded it in, never had a major issue and it ran great in the snow, now I’m in South Florida and have no need for a 4WD but I own an AMG E63 with AWD and it’s the most fun thing I’ve ever driven. I’ve never been a fan of Japanese vehicles, too light and they have a tendency to rust out, not a fan of Tesla either too many issues with their vehicles.
If I were looking for a quality vehicle that was good for winter driving I’d go with Ford or GM, if I wanted a car with low maintenance issues I’d be looking at Mercedes Benz.

Subarus recently have a ton of electrical problems, avoid. The BMW X3 drives like a cheapass car with a badge slapped on it and a big car payment to go along with the "prestige" even though it is not a good SUV nor is it a good driving experience. The X5 is decent, but a that price point it is not a good value. The Volvos are solid and quality although nothing is "affordable" anymore at least the Volvos seem like a good value for the money.

Interesting you mentioned Japanese vehicles and rust - For the past 30 years I’ve only driven “Japanese” vehicles although I use that term loosely.

Toyota Camry - built in Kentucky
Acura - built Japan
Lexus - built in Canada

Put a ton of miles on all 3 vehicles driving in harsh Midwest winters with heavily salted roads and never had any significant rust issues with any of the 3

I’ve owned 2 Volvos. Loved them. Now, it’s a Chinese company. No thanks.

My first Subaru WRX went to 247,000 miles on the original clutch before I got a new one, which now has 129,000 miles on it. Zero problems with either one Wife's Impreza going strong at 168,000, zero problems.

I forgot to include Lexus. The 2 main reasons I got the '98 Volvo S70 T5: 1) T5 has a beefier suspension, 2) 5-speed stick. I got a used '04 V70 T5 as I did a lot of travel for my LLC to St Louis/Creve Coeur and it was just easier to leave it at the hotel - I was there so much the Front Desk staff watched it for me. I missed that Ford sold Volvo to the CCP, not good at all. It's bad enough 75% of the shit we buy today comes from China. I recall many years ago the Army was buying bolts for the M1 Abrams and discussed the bolts were not to spec - great, our main battle tank. Genius.

Subs are made in NJ and/or Indiana last I knew. It really pissed me off that the electronics are so jacked-up and still are after 2 years. I get the display is not going to be replaced (LCD display on the Ascent is nice, the Outback is a pile even flies wouldn't touch) however, firmware/software can be patched/updated.

I like a nice comfy ride with creature comforts, and the Outback is a good alternative to a full-sized SUV plus the gas mileage is excellent. Volvo was VERY PROUD of their replacement parts based on the price. I had to replace the bulbs in the in the head unit of the '04 V70. Volvo wanted $7.95/bulb and I need like 10. Honda uses the same bulb - $1.75.

Thank you all!

Here’s a tool I find useful to compare specs of different cars

https://www.edmunds.com/car-comparisons/

Like most people, I like nice-cars – but up to this point in my life I’ve avoided “fancy cars” even if I could “afford them” and have focused on value (avoiding overpriced badges; and avoiding cars that are unreliable especially as they age; basically have tried to avoid money-pits w.r.t. cars) – up to now I’ve owned cars from a utilitarian-perspective and cost-of-ownership vs a status-symbol per se – I’ve normally kept cars 7 - 10 years and in some occasions longer to get the most out of the investment – given my M.O., up to now I’ve mainly considered Hondas and Toyotas as IME those can often be owned a long-time w/ not many if any major issues if one maintains and takes care of them properly.

Whether it’s cars or anything else; I don’t mind spending money but mind wasting money and I feel getting fancy cars is often a waste of money (high initial price; often high depreciation; costly maintenance; etc) – but now that I’m a bit-older, and have a bit surer financial situation in terms of savings and retirement-fund, I’m def more open to treating myself to a nice-car; but it would still have to be a good-value in terms of what one gets for the money and in terms of reliability even if I’m spending much-more than I did in the past – even if I can “afford it”, I still can’t see myself getting a car just b/c “it looks cool” or “makes some kinda statement” if that car has a poor history of reliability and cost-to-maintain where it’s a constant financial-drain.

I’m in a similar spot. I’ve been careful with my money all my life, including cars. I’m now in a position where I could easily afford any, with the possible exception of million dollar super cars. I’m trying to train myself to loosen the purse strings. Old dog, new tricks.

I once had a '93 Volvo 850. That was a great fucking car. I bought it from my mother when it was 10 years old and had about 18,000 miles on it. She didn't drive much. Lol.

It was the first car I ever owned that had power windows and locks, which was really nice, but it also had heated seats and heated power mirrors, which was like fucking insane to me back then. To this day it's the only car I ever owned with an automatic transmission, which I'm not crazy about, but for that type of car the auto trans was a good fit. A pleasure to drive. I went and got a custom Blaupunkt stereo installed and I was in heaven.

I continued to take it to the dealer for all its services. Everyone in the service department knew my mom and late father because they had bought like four Volvos there. When I took it for the 100,000 mile service, they said if I keep taking care of it I'll be driving it for another 100K.

Three days later I was driving through a green light and got T-boned by some asshole who didn't even slow down for the red light in his direction. Hit me right in the driver's side front wheel. I wanted to kick his ass, but I think he had a broken neck or something because his car was crumpled up like a tin can and he got taken away in an ambulance. I walked away without a scratch - that car was a fucking tank. But my heart was broken. My front axle snapped and the car was totaled because of its age.

Anyway, that was a nice car.

I have a BMW X3 as my work vehicle. An X5 is expensive. An X3 is not that expensive. It works for me well. But here is the deal with BMW. If you buy new from a BMW dealership, all maintenance for the first 3 years is paid for. No cost at all for oil, filters etc. So you get used to going to the dealership for servicing the vehicle. Then the 3 years is up. Then it costs $1000 for each oil change.

This is actually my 4th BMW and I have had good experiences with them. But the service cost after that initial time is high. The resale on each vehicle is very good because of that maintenance though.

"... But here is the deal with BMW. If you buy new from a BMW dealership, all maintenance for the first 3 years is paid for. No cost at all for oil, filters etc. So you get used to going to the dealership for servicing the vehicle. Then the 3 years is up. Then it costs $1000 for each oil change ..."

Holy shit

^ That might be a slight exaggeration. But it does seem to always cost a lot when I take it in. There are service intervals where things need to be replaced. Filters, transmission fluid, etc. The oil only gets changed every 8000 miles or so.

There is something weird going on with new car sales. Manufacturers are selling fewer cars, especially of more affordable makes and trims. This, in spite of the fact that the “ chip shortage” is behind us.

I think we’ve begun the transition to EV sales. Demand for ICE vehicles is declining and will soon shrink. Manufacturers are getting ahead of this trend and maximizing the profit they make from each car. Average sales price is well into the $40s. Before CoVid, $25-30k was the sweet spot.

@Warrior
Mercedes is similar priced, but there are plenty of Mercedes trained mechanics that will service your vehicle at a fraction of what the dealers charge, I have a guy near my home that services my car, same service as the dealer for about 35% of what the dealer charges, he even provides fresh coffee and bagels in the morning along with a pick up and dropoff courtesy ride, the only difference between his $350. tune up and Mercedes $8-1200. tune up is he doesn't have loaner cars, BFD.
He also provides service for BMW and Volvo, paying the car dealer so much for his service is ridiculous.

Subis have rough rides compared to everything else mentioned in this thread. They drive like an entry level GM/Ford and they leak oil. The cabin is dull and boring, but surprisingly, 1st gear has a lot of pep. My sister-in-law drives one right now and I've driven it plenty of times. Yawn. But, for the price, I admit, they provide a good amount of car.

X3 is a good car but Subi and Volvo and Lexus for that matter are more off road, unless something has changed in the platform. All the X-series are basically cars in SUV bodies. One of my best friends drives one now and it's a fun drive. Like someone said upthread, they take care of maintenance and oil change is expensive, like $75-100, but you can take it to a BMW specialist.

My friend growing up has been a Volvo family and I'm a believer. I looked into the PHEV XC90 and it's probably going to be my next car (I'm looking into the Mercedes PHEV and Hyundai electric). I drive a Lexus 450h F-Sport now and everything works great, no complaints, great in snow, great gas mileage, shockingly fast, but like women, I want to try something different. One thing I hear anecdotally is that US cars are terrible with electronics.

If you're looking to just get around in some comfort with a ton of reliability, then any Accord or Camry is tops in my book. I like Hyundai, too, but I think the Hondas and Camrys drive better. I would put Honda just above Camry right now. Any car worth its salt should last 100k miles no problems.

I agree on the Subaru ride although the wrx is made to handle flat, w/o any body lean so a harsh ride is expected. The cabin is yugo basic as well. Never burned a drop of oil though and it's cheap to own and very reliable. Happy to race anyone in the snow, wet or twisty roads too. The unique feature that other cars don't have is a guarantee that you will be stopped by the police all the time and that as a wrx driver you are honor bound to waive back to all the other wrx drivers who waive at you.

I bought a new '23 outback last fall. I get 25-26 mpg. It has a lot of pep, but I hate the many stupid things it does. When changing lanes it thinks I need help driving and tries to stay in my lane. If I use the turn signal that is turned off. My first 3 hour trip in it left me exhausted from fighting the steering. If I take my hands off the steering wheel it will steer and try to stay in my lane, but it weaves back and forth in the lane like a drunk. After awhile it will start beeping and telling me to put my hands on the wheel. Then it will beep louder. Then... it STOPS steering for me. I predict that someone will do this and crash and sue them and win, and suburu will issue a recall and remove this stupid feature.