OT: Background checks

Yeah, it's not easy, at least not in gun store, despite what the liberal media says. You either do the background check in the store, or do it in advance and with even more requirements, like fingerprinting, by having a carry license, which is not even required in Georgia anymore. I guess the main advantage of Georgia carry license now is it allows you to skip the background check at a gun store. I've never bought at gun show, but I understand it's easy to buy from private parties at a gun store without a background check or license. It's the "gun show loophole" the "progressives" are always complaining about. I'm pretty 2d Amendment friendly and I don't have any problem with background checks, and the "gun show loophole" does seem like a bit of a loophole. Then again, I've never heard of a gun bought at a gun show being used in a mass shooting. If one was, I'm sure it would have been all over CNN and CNBC.

Another thing the libs scream about is they claim people are buying guns off the internet like it's some free for all. All guns shipped/mailed have to go to a federally licensed firearms dealer to be transfered to the buyer after he/she clears a background check.

Also, every time, in addition to the background check or showing your carry license, you have to fill out and swear to the truth of an ATF form in which you must state, among other things, that you are a US citizen or permanent resident, haven't been convicted of a felony, haven't been committed to a mental institution, and aren't a habitual drug user. I wonder how Hunter Biden got around that last one when he bought the handgun that was later found in a DC trash can.

' I guess the main advantage of Georgia carry license now is it allows you to skip the background check at a gun store.'



Another advantage is most states accept CCL from other states so for instance a Georgia license would be acceptable in Ohio but a Georgia resident could not legally carry in Ohio if they don't have a license from their own state.

There are already thousands of gun laws on the books, making more laws only add more restrictions to law abiding citizens, they won't eliminate criminals or some nut case from causing havoc.
In a free society it's impossible to regulate, keep an eye on everyone, and prevent all criminals or nut cases from doing something stupid and the last time I checked we were still basically somewhat a free society although there's always people that want to add more restrictions and eliminate freedoms.

I spent a few minutes looking for sources of guns. It's not easy because most tallies that I found only day "legally obtained" or "illegal.". In one itemized list I did find this:

Seth Aaron Ator purchased an AR-style rifle through a private sale, allowing him to evade a federal background check, and fired it indiscriminately from his car into passing vehicles and shopping plazas.
(Midland TX Aug 31, 2019)

So, yes, you did hear about it from a liberal. I didn't continue on through the list to get a complete count.

I have a small arsenal and I don't mind the background checks, finger printing, etc... The gun show loophole should probably be closed but really what are they closing?... I Dr. Evil wanted to buy one of my guns, we meet up at Pink Pony in the parking lot and make the deal how is anyone going to regulate that?

The other thing I have encountered with liberal friends is that when you agree on a point like the loophole, then they have another thing they want until you give up all your guns and I am simply not doing that

When my youngest turned 15 she wanted a party at the gun range... They ran a little safety class for 15 kids then let them shoot handguns, ar 15, ak47, an uzi, etc... they had a blast. Im sure some of my liberal friends head would explode thinking of me exposing kids to those guns but its not their kids lol

Seth Ator purchased his gun illegally, and the seller when to jail. https://www.kcbd.com/2021/01/07/lubbock-…

It also wasn't sold at a gun show. Like I said, gun show sales do seem like a loophole. The sole purpose of the event is buying and selling guns, so maybe they should have instant background check computers set up at gun shows for private sellers to use. Licensed dealers at a gun show would still have to comply with all of the form requirements and the instant background check, but private sellers would not. Seems kind of weird.

But no, I'm not for every private transfer requiring a background check. If you are in the business of buying and selling guns, you should have to comply with all the requirements. If you are a hobbyist or collector and occasionally sell one, it's nobody else's business.

Electronic records are forever, which means that a background check requirement might as well be a gun registry. Here in FL background checks are not required for private sales between individuals and IMO that's a good thing.

No doubt that the Dems are hell-bent on taking away guns - and IMO what's really behind it is their power-grab and not having an armed-citizenry potentially stand in their way (they want a cream-puff docile scared citizenry unable to defend itself against them and their power-grabbing-ambitions).

Background checks may have their place; but at the end of the day it mainly affects law-abiding-citizens as criminal are not gonna be going thru background-checks to get their guns - the Dems will twist and militarize the law like they've been doing with everything else in a way that law-abiding-citizens are basically disarmed (as they've done in many blue-cities where the criminals are armed-to-the-teeth but law-abiding-citizens are walking around neutered per se).

Some of the things the Dems are doing:

"New California law allows civil litigation against gun manufacturer"

"... A California bill signed into law Tuesday will allow residents to sue the manufacturers of guns that are used in crimes ..."

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/202…


"NY Governor: 3 Years Social Media History For Concealed Carry Required"

"... New York Governor Kathy Hochul signed landmark gun legislation Friday requiring New Yorkers to disclose 3 years of social media history when applying for a concealed carry permit ..."

https://americanpigeon.org/ny-governor-3…


"Railroad Retirement Board And The IRS Need Ammunition?"

"... there is concern that this is part of a broader effort to have an entity in the federal government buy up ammo to reduce the amount of ammunition that is in supply ..."

https://thetruereporter.com/red-alert-ra…

I'm trying to figure out what is the actual complaint here, I have a CCP from the State of Florida, it gets renewed periodically, it gives me reciprocity with many other states, if I need to purchase a gun I show my CCP, the store makes a record of this, not a problem, usually there's no problem I walk out of the store with the gun I purchased,I have never purchased a gun from a private seller, but so what. so where's your problem. Is there someone here that doesn't think it's a good idea to make sure that folks buying guns, should be cleared in a way that shows they aren't a menace.
Someone please clarify what's the beef, and don't tell my they're trying to take away your guns, that's a large load of hooey.

More annoying to me is the constant claim that people are buying “ automatic” weapons or assault rifles ( scary looking guns ?).

I own multiple firearms and I would say that less than half of my purchases involved a background check being done. It is not like I went out of my way to avoid them, it just happens to be that a lot of the ways I purchased them didn't require a background check. These guns have all been purchased legally and it isn't like I was buying them from some shady guy selling an armory of weapons from his van in an alley in a bad part of town.

For instance, I bought an AR-10 back in June at a local estate auction here in Ohio. Since the auctioneer did not sell enough guns on an annual basis he wasn't required to have an FFL so there was no background check. I just had to sign a 1 page form swearing that I hadn't been convicted of a felony, dishonorably discharged from the military, not addicted to drugs etc. The auctioneer said the form is not filed with any government agency and that he is only required to keep it in his records for 1 year. I have bought about 6 or 8 guns from auctions over the years and all of them have been the same way.

Last year I bought Benelli Black Eagle shotgun and a Glock 26 that I use for concealed carry from a booth set up at a local flea market. Like the auctions, the guy running this booth only occasionally sold firearms so he didn't need to have an FFL so no background check was done. I have also bought various guns from yard sales and facebook over the years which obviously didn't involve a background check.

I have also sold several guns over the years in which I wouldn't have been required to perform any type of background check. However, I have always had the buyer go with me to a local FFL to do the transfer. The few bucks it costs for the transfer paperwork and background check are well worth the piece of mind to know I am not selling a gun to someone who shouldn't have one. It also prevents a situation where a cop ends up knocking on my door if someone uses one of my old guns in a crime.

It's very state dependent. I have bought and sold guns in Mass, sold one out of state to an FFL. Been a long ass time since my last private purchase in Mass, think I had to go to an FFL who documented the transaction and went through the Mass background check system. It was pretty efficient. For a deep blue state, Mass is pretty well run and doesn't succumb to as many stupid progressive fads.

"The other thing I have encountered with liberal friends is that when you agree on a point like the loophole, then they have another thing they want until you give up all your guns and I am simply not doing that"

@Daddilac, I'm hearing this from increasingly emboldened Democratic friends whose line of reasoning comes down to "they scare me and therefore shouldn't be legal." When I press then to learn something about what they want to ban, they accuse me of "gunsplaining" and take pride in the purity of their ignorance.

It's interesting how liberals, progressives, Democrats or whatever you call them continue to push more and more toward "front-end" solutions to gun violence, while simultaneously moving AWAY from "back-end" solutions. In other words, the MORE restrictions they place upon the acquisition of firearms by ordinary citizens, the LESS they punish crimes that are actually committed.

Suppose we applied that same concept to automobile deaths? Make it MUCH HARDER to drive, but only for people who have never had a speeding ticket or other infraction. At the same time, ELIMINATE punishment of people who abuse their driving privilege, even those who drive recklessly ON PURPOSE.

It depends on the state. Bit it's funny seeing so many on here wanting women's bodies to be more regulated by the gov than guns

^ Women need guns to protect themselves against abusive pimps and wannabe rape cult leaders.

Obtaining a “cold” firearm is not that difficult, anyone can travel to the “Little Italian” side of town or have friends with connections to the “other side of the tracks” and purchased any kind of firearms, impossible to trace.

It's funny, living in New Jersey my whole life I NEVER thought I'd see the day that the average citizen would be allowed to carry here. As a result, nearly all my handguns are either too heavy and bulky or straight up fucking hand cannons and not for CCW. I always bought them with home defense in mind, or stuff that would be fun to shoot at the range.

Lucky for me, about 12 years ago someone suggested that with all the hassle NJ puts you through every time, I might as well get two permits at once because you never know. Only costs an extra $4 bucks, so if you don't use it within the 60 days or whatever, it's no loss. Turns out I had some money left over after my first choice gun, but not enough to get something I really wanted. So just for the fuck of it, I bought a little Walther PK380.

I don't think I've fired it but maybe 3 or 4 times, and sometimes regretted buying it. But now that I'm going through the CCW process, at least I have something suitable for carry. It's not ideal because I'd rather something a little more powerful, but it's better than nothing. Here you have to qualify with the gun you plan to carry, and the serial number goes on your permit. So I've got friends who are now submitting "purchase" applications, which may take who knows how many months to get approved, just so they can buy something and THEN start the CCW process.

As one might expect in Jersey, I'm already hearing stories of some Police departments giving BULLSHIT excuses for not processing CCW applications. Some people, after spending around $300 on range qualification, fingerprints, notary, passport photos, etc. then spending another couple or few hundred on a holster, which nobody in NJ owned before (because why would they) are being handed their application packets back and told that the cops "don't know how" to process their paperwork. Others are being rejected because their forms were filled out by hand instead of printed on a computer, which is absolutely NOT a requirement. And some have resorted to an old trick they sometimes use: They "only" accept applications like one day a week, between 9:30 and 11:00, or 2:30 and 4:00, just to screw you and make you take time off of work. Then when you get there the line is so long, you either have to call out for the rest of the day, or forget it and go back to work, having wasted the time you took off.

It's a real fucking joke here. At least in my town, it used to really suck, but last time I went for a purchase permit (maybe 3 years ago) a new woman had taken over that process and she was awesome. The incompetent moron who used to do that job before was still there but now reporting to her. Everything was organized and my stuff got processed and approved within just a couple weeks. I'm hoping she's still there when I go to drop off my paperwork. But a lot of towns really try to make it impossible.

Unbelievable. NJ requires a permit just to purchase?

^ Sounds like NJ hasn't got it sorted out yet,back in the day, in NYC I got permitted through the precinct, if you had the right connections the process was easy peasy, if you didn't have a connection you were SOL. I don't know the process any more, but my guess it's likely a fiasco.

One would assume the blue-areas will keep putting up obstacles w.r.t. CCW permits and overall gun-purchases - citizens in those areas are left to fend for themselves

@doctorevil

Yes, every handgun requires a purchase permit. You fill out application, provide references who are actually contacted and have to affirm that they know you for X number of years and that you're not an angry person or whatever, submit a mental health consent form that authorizes them to invade your HIPPA rights, they run a full background check, and although the law requires them to approve (or deny) your application within 30 days, there have been times that it's taken up to 6 months.

There was a case a while back where a young woman had a psycho ex-boyfriend who was stalking her. She had a restraining order but he kept doing it, and she kept reporting him. She decided to apply for a handgun permit. Not a "carry" permit, because at that time "justifiable need" in NJ did not include a psycho who threatened to kill you on numerous occasions, but she just wanted a gun to have around the house for protection. Several months beyond the legal requirement of 30 days, her application still wasn't approved, and the guy showed up and beat her to death.

^^ One thing on the application is you have to put your employment information. One time they sent a letter to my employer which, like all mail, was opened by the receptionist. It requested employment verification and stated that I had applied for a handgun permit. Of course, it was handled by several people before it got to my boss who brought it to my attention. She had no problem with it and gladly signed off, and I didn't really care that much, but the fact is now the whole office knew I was buying a gun. For some people, or in some workplaces, that might be very uncomfortable. After that I just started putting "unemployed" on the applications and it was never questioned. Again, I didn't really care, but it was just one more thing that might hold up the process.

"Good Guy With A Gun: Mass Shooter Shot In Indiana Mall By Armed Civilian"

https://www.dailywire.com/news/good-guy-…

"Orlando Amusement Park Forced To Pause ‘Insensitive’ Shooting Gallery Game"

https://www.dailywire.com/news/orlando-a…

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/…

Polling is clear: Americans want gun control

https://apnews.com/article/covid-health-…

Many back strict gun laws, but opposition tends to be louder

^^ fucking idiot

Icee while I think that polling data is correct, I think the Right would respond that the purpose of the Amendments is to protect rights threatened by the will of the majority which can be fickle over time. I am not a Conservative in any way really. But I'm just pointing out the intelligent counterargument that many may make

@25... No complaints here, just an observation

BTW you may not be out to take away guns but your party is. They will not be successful, just like abortion will not go away (no matter how much your party bitches and manufactures lies)... you simply cannot put toothpaste back in the tube

I don’t identify as Democratic I don’t agree with your assessment but I vote my personal opinion I’ve actually voted for more Republicans up till now, but if they keep veering extreme right I’ll be voting for more Democrats, not progressive but I’m more old school centrist, there’s no longer a center in American Politics, we’ll see what happens.

Lia Thomas identifies as a woman... that does not make it true. You may not identify as a democrat but your actions and political stances suggest otherwise... not a condemnation just an observance.

If you feel the need to defend yourself about being a democrat then you are obviously aligning yourself with the wrong party

I’m not defending myself for the reasons you’re stating, I’m not ashamed of my views and share them often, I resent when my views are misrepresented.
That being said, your party is quickly becoming an endangered species, I know you’re a decent man and a good parent, but the folks that you’re standing for are trying to make it impossible for women to have an abortion, Ted Cruz wats to end gays right to marry what’s next a return to miscegenation laws.

^ There was a time when your party wanted to characterize themselves as a big tent, not so much any more Now if you don’t believe the election was stolen, it’s heresy and they want you out of the tent.

Exactly. We don't need any more gun control or gun control laws. We need more idiot control. Get these boomers in line please.

^ Boomers aren't the ones shooting up schools and shopping malls, Brokeback.

I believe the gun shows and the person to person sales have been the loop hole. Don't know if this still true.

SJG

Dakota Cohen - Heart - Heartless with the School of Rock 2017 AllStars Team 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aulZmMz6…

@25. I don't think Republicans have ever aspired to have the "big tent.". That more traditionally is the Democrats' approach. Example: Liz Cheney has impeccable GOP credentials, and Rs treat her as a pariah. Joe Manchin screws his party just for fun, and the Ds have made him de facto president.

I belong to no organized political party; I'm a Democrat. [Will Rogers]

^ I agree with From978.

SJG

Dakota Cohen - Heart - Heartless with the School of Rock 2017 AllStars Team 7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aulZmMz6…

^


Are you trying to make him a pariah like yourself? #Kiss of death!

@25... you cannot take the fringe Republicans and define the party by them. The only thing that type of behavior does is align you with SJG. I know you are more reasonable than that.

As for voting I have voted Democrat and Republican... the traditional republican values line up more with my core values so I most often vote Republican.

^ I disagree totally, this is a major shift in the Republican Party, this Maga crap needs to stop, and who drives the party apparatus, none other than the Trump loyalists. you keep accusing me of what you guys are doing, I haven't changed my core value system, I never liked Donald Trump and the Maga group almost fetishizes him, this is not a fringe group, this is the group that has taken the party apparatus over, anyone that objects to their behavior gets primaried out of existence, traditional Republican values are more in line with the Goldwater Dixiecrats, then the Reagan Republicans that caused the tremendous growth in the party.
I haven't sought to attack anyone here over their politics, but this is a load of bullshit, comparing me with a delusional sad sack, that's a new low for you personally, like I said disagree with anyone, however you like but don't misrepresent my position.
For the record my values align with the small government, capitalist folks of either party, that believe in the free elections and a peaceful transition of power. and I am and always will be against demagogues and hypocrites, one of them is Donald Trump.

^ >traditional Republican values are more in line with the Goldwater Dixiecrats, then the Reagan Republicans that caused the tremendous growth in the party<

I really screwed up that sentence, sorry it is the exact opposite of what I intended to say

Traditional Republican values are more in line with the Reagan Republicans , then the Goldwater Dixiecrats, the Reagan Republicans caused the tremendous growth in the party.

Da background check I need is to check if da valve on da back of da shit truck 🚛🚒 is closed good. I don't want to accidently dump shit anywhere it shouldn't be. I am a professional and I only demo in deserving people's basements

@25... Do not misrepresent what I said... I said I know you are more reasonable than SJG.

I get it... you hate Donald Trump so much that you cannot see clearly (you and a lot of people). However aggresively pushing all Republicans into that box does nothing but further the divide between Americans.

I personally look at the situation the country is in right now with inflation and blame it all on anybody that voted for Joe Biden. So if you voted biden you own the mess we are in, your hatred for Trump led us here.

This clickbait should have been posted in the political forum.

@Dadilac
So I guess I should say the same about your side your refusal to see what Trump was doing led us into this morass, if there had been a less divisive, less mean spirited person in that position this country wouldn’t be in so much trouble

And so here we are... calling names, pointing fingers, not taking responsibility, digging in our heals until the other side recognizes us as correct.... While the country burns under a shitty president

Congrats

^Fair point, I'm not calling you any names though, I'm just disappointed in the totality of how unwilling to recognise that there are other POVs, and the refusal to allow that there is legitimacy in POVs even though we disagree with them.

I can think of many things I wish Trump had done different... he was doomed from the start, remember he had to call in the national guard to insure a safe transition of power (there were bomb threats), so this notion of insurrection is not new or limited to the MAGA movement. He went on from there to the Russian Dossier, impeachment, covid, etc... The left did not let him breathe, so his mean spirit may have been a response not a way of life. I have sat in a room with Trump and 6 other guys for 7 hours working on a hotel deal, it fell through primarily due to his wanting too much in return for little investment. My client decided the Trump name was not worth as much as he thought it was. It ended very well and everyone was nice. So I have first hand experience with the man... NOT a friend of mines brother did this or I heard this happened or some contractor said this.

He has some rough edges but he did a lot of great things for this country.... So far Biden has not done anything I can think of that is worth anything... He has been awful and anyone who voted for him voted for this... you had a choice, you could have voted for Jo Jorgenson... but 81 million dumb fucks voted this stupid bitch into office

I posted that last one before I read your response

I can believe there are other POV's some of them have merit even if I disagree with them

I have two sets of clients that are great people and great parents... both of them have children who have not spoken to them since Trump was elected... that is such bullshit

I have some friends whose daughter said I was a racist rapist because I voted for Trump

What the fuck do you do with that much hatred for a person that you cancel your parents or a friend because of politics?

^I have no idea, I still have the same group of friends some of them voted for Trump most did not, the saddest part of this whole debate, is questioning of the patriotism of a person you disagree with, I mean you really think that because your guy didn't get elected the world stopped spinning on it's axis and the trends and actualities that are part and parcel of every thing that makes up human life on planet earth changed.

not at all... I think we will survive this presidency, It will just be a very deep hole we have to climb out of. One that we did not HAVE to dig. So far I have not questioned anyones patriotism at all unless you meant that you were questioning mine?

^ No I wasn't questioning anyone's patriotism, I don't appreciate 81 million dumb fucks, unless you realize that he actually received 81,284,000 votes and were implying that 284,000 of those votes weren't actually dumb fucks, then it'll give you a little deniability that you didn't mean to include me in the dumb fucks group.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Well, I finally got all my paperwork turned in for CCW. I had to drive an hour and a half (each way) to Pennsylvania this morning to get fingerprinted because every single NJ location is booked through late August or early September. And I had to pay an extra $40 fee for "out-of-state". Why that should make any difference is beyond me, as everything is 100% electronic, except that former NJ Governor Jon Corzine owns the fingerprint company, so maybe it's just a way to continue fucking us long after he's left office.

I go to the police station and the nice lady I mentioned in an earlier post wasn't there, but the same jerk face moron who's had that clerk's job in the records department for over 20 years took care of me. I realized that the first time I went there he looked like a kid, and now he's going grey. He's older, but not any wiser. So disorganized.

Gave him all my shit and he starts putting it all over the place while making copies. Helping some other guy at the same time, he mixed up our driver licenses. Gives me back my stuff, but not the original purchase permit and receipt for my gun, which is one of the requirements. So I'm waiting like 10 minutes and he finally says, "You need something else?" I told him, and then he couldn't find it. He's like, "Well, it's not here. I gave it to you." I pull all my shit out of the big envelope I have, lay it out on the counter, and it's not there. I haven't moved more than 3 feet from where I've been standing the whole time. I'm like, "Dude, you didn't give it to me." Finally some other person found it on the copy machine.

It will be a miracle if my application gets processed correctly. I know I'm probably just bitter from having lived in NJ for so long. Sorry for the rant. I really am very happy that New Jersey has finally moved one step closer to freedom. Thank you President Trump for the Supreme Court that made this possible.

^ f'ed up one has to deal with people like that - and these people likely belong to a union so almost impossible to fire them and then they get to retire with good pensions and benefits for life while the taxpayers get a fraction in benefits of what these people get

So true Papi. While this guy was looking for (and not finding) my paperwork, somebody dropped off a six-pack of soda to him. He spent a few minutes talking and then putting the soda into a little mini-fridge before he got back to looking for my stuff.

@misterorange
That's the real problem, these idiots get on civil service jobs and get paid better than most with benefits many in the private sector would be glad to get. We'd be better served if someone would clear these idiots out and institute a merit based system, where they get paid for performance.Truthfully if there was accountability you'd get 4X as much work getting done with a 30% reduction in the civil service labor force.

I'm all for private sector unionization, but against public sector unionization. Makes no sense to be able to vote in the people at the other end of the negotiating table, and to have the power of the law at your disposal.

^ Civil service is worse than a union, most civil servants are tenured and can't be fired for any reason, the rules are absurd, if they had to justify the output of a typical civil servant, it couldn't be done.

Public sector employees are the ones who most need to organize, because their is no employer competition, no other public sector.

SJG

Khatia Buniatishvili is hypnotic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jbHbDen…