My "aura" and attracting dancers
Book Guy
I write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Have you ever had one of those nights when people just seemed to shun you? I went to a club recently and, although everyone was friendly, it just seemed that they felt like I had a red light on my forehead that said "Go Away!" I saw some of my favorite dancers, and they smiled distantly as they walked by, then gave some other regular customer a HEEE-YYYUUUGGE hug and sat on his lap for a half hour. I stage tipped one or two gals whom I haven't had a chance to get to know yet, and they thanked me and then sat with fat old ugly fucks who weren't buying them drinks. I smelled my armpits? Nope, nothing offensive. I checked my pipe? Nope, had the room-pleasing cherry-and-marshmallow smell. I checked my breath? Nope, no garlic in the last week.
Do you ever have those occasions when your "aura" is just off? Maybe you aren't smiling right, or you somehow offend everyone whenever you're just trying to make a harmless little joke? "No, I didn't mean it THAT way ..." :(
What do you do about these experiences? Just go home and wait them out? I was actually pretty psyched to be out and enjoying myself, didn't want to just leave the party. It was fun. There ARE other times when I'm annoyed by loud noises, or unhappy in a crowd. THOSE are the occasions when I know it's better to go home rather than impose myself on strangers. But what about when strangers just seem to consistently mis-read you?
Do you ever have those occasions when your "aura" is just off? Maybe you aren't smiling right, or you somehow offend everyone whenever you're just trying to make a harmless little joke? "No, I didn't mean it THAT way ..." :(
What do you do about these experiences? Just go home and wait them out? I was actually pretty psyched to be out and enjoying myself, didn't want to just leave the party. It was fun. There ARE other times when I'm annoyed by loud noises, or unhappy in a crowd. THOSE are the occasions when I know it's better to go home rather than impose myself on strangers. But what about when strangers just seem to consistently mis-read you?
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Sometimes, I think it happens to me because I'm not particularly loyal to favorites. I think nothing of spending most of my time with new girls if they appeal to me, so faves may assume I can do all right for myself. But even that is probably imposing too much of a story line on it.
And I agree, while stage-tipping usually helps, certainly not always. A few times, at various clubs, I tipped a lot, trying to get anyone's attention, and nothing happens. I've seen it posted here several times - don't overtip - but sometimes just a buck doesn't do it anymore.
I entered a club (Club A) the other afternoon and my ATF (for that club) was tied up aggressively soliciting what apparently was a new customer (which I've previously urged her to do, rather than stand around waiting for customers as she's always done in the past), so I stayed a distance away. I had probably the no 4 and no. 5 girl (in a club known for dozens of very pretty dancers) and (strangely enough) also the waitress all over me for 30 to 355 minutes, while I tried to excecute Plan B -which was escape to Club B for another (super-level) ATF
The only "aura" I was putting out was "spends lots of money" "lots of the time" not much else. I did have some fun with these 2 dancers, using it as excuse to paw them etc, and the waitress -so it ended up 20 dollar bills for each of these 2 dancers (saving me big money because I've spent at least 1 to 2k on each one of these non-ATF dancers since summer), so I avoided dancing with them, and 20 bucks to the waitress to "spy" and find out exactly what was going on with the AFT in Club A. I had to be 100% sure she was tied up, because the ATF in Club A has been a bit angry at me for not seeing her in recent weeks.
In total including drive-time maybe an hour was wasted and I had only about 2 hours tops available for either Club A or Club B
When I got to Club B my other ATF was available and ready and her passion level was even higher than normal, as she (correctly) sensed I was lying when I gave my (phony) excuse why I happened to be arriving at that club later than usual that day, apparently producing that gentlemen horndog vibe many hot women crave so badly.
In other primates one will note that a tightened jaw and the exposure of teeth (the snarl), which bears a resemblance to a smile, is often used as a threat or warning display - it is in effect a precursor to battle -whereas the smile is basically a very minor (but significant) but far less threatening change (minor and subtle to avoid triggering any mistaken impression in a battle context) where the jaw relaxes slightly, thus in an evolutionary context represents submission or weakness
Point is even in a club situation (where everyone knows its nearly always about money anyways) if you think being attractive (in the chemistry sense) in some way to a stripper is a plus in terms of the "aura" etc - then a smile is likely to be a turnoff, a sign of a weak or submissive male
Either go up to strippers, or otherwise eyeball them so they can see respond and ask for a dance, but don't smile too much
In the thread on "stripper shit" I just posted I mentioned this dancer who I've had these crazy conversations with in recent months (she now wants a faithful CHEATER) - she claimed she finally admitted what I was saying was true and the example she admitted finally convinced her was when I asked her to tell me why she's attracted to BILL CLINTON and NOT attracted to GEORGE BUSH. She couldn't claim BUSH is a wimp or boring, instead she had to admit it was the horndog image of Clinton (in his case very explicit) that apparently explained her attraction toward him. Unfortunately it means for her that it is unlikely she will ever be attracted to a faithful guy, which is part of the burden that super-hot women must live with.
If only the cold weather had stayed around a couple more days I could have really shocked her instead. The last week or two on occasion, I have been putting off small lightning bolts of static electricity all over the place. Now that temps are in the 70's, that's all gone. An evil look combined with shock power, now that's sure to get a reaction from a dancer. Lol, just joking.
Smiling is a huge mistake and s/b avoided with strippers, unless its an ATF type or semi-reg and she's just accused you of either hanging around other clubs or screwing around with every women in town - then she might notice perhaps a small glint in your eye as you (silently) recall the wonderous pleasured of being with those other 6 women
BINGO! :)
And, she will beg to turn over all her earnings to you. Seen it a million and eleven times.
As for one's "aura" - if one gets into this (optional not recommended for all patrons) game thing with strippers one has to use whatever they got. If you are rich, tall, intelligent, reasonably good looking, a good talker or whatever you can bring to the table - you;ve got to leverage it, otherwise its basically hopeless as strippers are dealing with 1000's of guys a year -and they therefore represent a huge challenge.
Personally I find out their clock and then start dumping money on them for private dancer/VIP sessions around the days they heat-up, and I've got good results in terms of what interests me, because most do not seem to have the intellectual capacity to even connect it to ovulation - often instead assigning it to some higher order emotion.
Strippers in general are way overrated, but there are some real gems in the crowd.
--"In terms of what women respond to, keep in mind probably 99% of women sincerely BELIEVE they want the faithful, non-controlling, honest, and sincere "nice guy" and yet what they ACTUALLY want and respond to (what ratchets up this "chemistry" they spend so much time focusing on) -is usually quite the opposite. Even when confronted with this, most women will continue to explain it this way "well we don't like boring wimpy men" when in fact many many "nice guys" are not like that at all, but it provides an easy explanation for them."--
Yeah, that's all I have to say. :)
I don't mean to be TOTALLY cynical -- my previous post about the way to a woman's heart being, simply, to give her the opposite of what's good for her or what she ought to respond to -- is a bit flippant and silly. I don't mean it literally.
But there is something to it. David999 has done a great job of getting more to the point. I think one thing that I tend to forget, is that not only is there this reversal going on (they say they want a nice guy but respond positively to a dominant and aggressive guy), but also they themselves are fooled about it (they genuinely BELIEVE they want a nice guy).
Of the 3 guys: Person A was either military, marine or something, maybe he just got out of the service (cannot remember exactly), definitely good looking, well spoken, on the tall side, even appeared educated, gave the impression of being quietly macho, gave a sense of Gary Cooper in those old movies - and an most importantly presented himself as a real gentlemen. Persons B and C were not only jerks both were wiry, boderline ugly guys, real bad attitudes, with the cockiness but actually offering nothing that one would expect a woman to be interested in - sort of with a druggie look -real loser types
The purpose of the show was to sort why this woman (similar to many other women in her age group) could not sustain a relationship. Now of course since these shows are idiotic anyways they never actually figure these things out.
However during the show, one could easily tell she still had a thing for BOTH the 2 jerks types, and she all but ignored the gentlemen/military type - and two-thirds of the show was her arguing with the 2 jerks- but it was very very clear she wanted to go out with them again.
At one point they focused on Person A and his attitude was "hey did what I could, I've just moved on, not going to worry about it, that's the way it goes" Even as it was Person A's turn to present his side, you could see via the woman's expression and her body language, and it was clear that THIS guy she had zero interest in.
This just reaffirms that the easy explanation of so many women to kiss off "nice guys" by way of tagging them with some phrase like "of course I'm not attacted to boring wimps or weaklings" - is an irrelevant side issue
Obviously this military guy was not any kind of a wimp or weakling, gave no indications to be boring, his mistake in this case was that he probably gave off the aura of a faithful man - thus kicking the chemistry down for this woman
BEGIN QUOTE
Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive.
Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to.
They are interested in how other people view him--how many people want to be around him, how other people interact with him and whether their interactions convey that he is special and amazing. They want him to be extremely outgoing and aggressive, they want him to demonstrate his status over other people by dominating them in various non-violent ways.
A woman's attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn't care who he actually is or EXACTLY what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself.
A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute. Although that sounds vulgar, it's true. She trades her physical self to buy into the success a man has created for himself.
As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things.
Sure, a huge part of my attraction is mental, but the powerful seed of love that builds within me and crystallizes is based greatly on visual things that set off torrents of emotion and need.
It seems to me that women almost cannot think for themselves. Their estimates of worth are based on other peoples' estimates of worth. They don't really find an object beautiful on their own. The object becomes beautiful when other people let her know that it is beautiful.
I'm completely unable to reconcile the differences between men and women. It seems like success with women is equal to spending half of your life working to create a giant illusion, something vastly tiring and annoying, while sacrificing your own true self and your own interests. We construct our lives around nest-building. We're like male birds building nests and showing them off to attract mates. It's pathetic. Everything we do is to get women. It is a fucking shit deal.
Someone needs to invent a drug which has no hormonal imbalance side-effects but is able to erase a man's sex drive and attraction to women. It would increase productivity rates to incredible heights. I'd be free and happy. I'd feel complete. I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying.
END QUOTE
The poster gives the issue a bit of a new spin, however I am surprised that he is so perplexed about why men and women approach love and sex and attraction so differently
The basic biology for the most part determines this difference: Men have millions of sperm and optimal survival chances derive from spreading that seed widely, whereas women have but a very limited number of eggs - so men seek volume with the most fertile women they can find whereas women seek resources to help care for their offspring
Resources in effect are traded for sex and beauty.
As the Craig's List poster states "A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute" however in fairness one could then say "men are basically horny sex crazed beauty mongers."
This is one of the main reasons why when I was clubbing regularly I always tried to (1) be some girl's regular, (2) treat her well both financially and otherwise, (3) go when the club was empty, and (4) call ahead and make sure she knew I was coming. That didn't always solve the problem but it did minimize it.
If you go when the club is fairly busy, and you spread your money around among several different girls, there will be times when they'll all be busy with someone who comes in just to see them. Even the girls who don't know you will know your habits if you're in the club a lot.
I'd add to it, the other dirty little secret about women: they're deliberately harming themselves daily.
By the way, the Craig's List poster while presenting the traditional basic notion that "men trade resources for sex and beauty" idea -while he does apparently cite male controlling behavior, he fails to appreciate that much more is usually needed in most case for a woman to fall "in love" with a man - as he can have many of the traits the poster has cited, but if he's also happens to be the traditional faithful, sincere, and honest "nice guy" - the odds of winning the girl over are going to be reduced, as such "nice guys" (subconsciously) in evolutionary terms (not in reality of course) are considered dead ends - thus (as the genes perceived them) decreasing the woman's ultimate odds of genetic survival
With the exception of 4, I use this approach in certain clubs, and if she happens to be busy (which they usually are not), I wait a bit or in rare cases head to another backup club
Now as to the "aura" issue, I've never thought of it that way, but I guess my approach is to make sure when a particular dancer is around me a number of things are going to be happening: money will flow in fairly large amounts if I like a dancer, (always at least at a min a 100 dollar bill for at least one VIP session) and if I've not buying multiple VIPs or whatever, I'll be slipping her 20's at various times if we're just hanging out - as she knows I value her time, plus I'll be (at times) slipping bribes to DJs to make sure certain songs get played, songs she likes, and we both like, plus I'll have always have 5 different things to talk about ready-to-fly, things that will interest her, plus I will help her avoid stage calls, by timing private dance sessions that conflict with her call-ups. The point is I will make sure things will be happening when an (AFT level) dancer and myself are together. One can never be sure what a particular dancer is thinking about a patron, but (with an ATF that I like) they will never label me as boring, uninteresting, or cheap
Now dancers, like women in general, need to be kept off balance and unpredictable, in fact they crave this although they won't admit it, so the spending patterns (e.g in special cases) do have to vary to the degree possible, however never knowing precisely when you will showup at a club is a no-cost way of creating unpreditablity - plus it increases the odds they will acuse you or implicitly suggest you are hanging out with other dancers around town, or (even better) maybe other non-dancers - the point being all this is good and something most women subconsciously want and need, the degree of all this being of varying relevance depending upon exactly what kind of relationship the dancer and patron actually have.
more proof that hot women crave cheaters - anyone really think Eva Longoria (Desperate Housewive's hottest chick) didn't suspect her boyfriend/husband was cheating? The reality is: odds are very high she would never be attracted to a man their either didn't cheat or she didn't suspect (rightly or wrongly) was cheating. Its all basic biology and evolution. No doubt the same with French model Alexandra Parassant, probably never got turned on by a guy that wasn't married and/or cheating.
All these ideas make sense to me.
Here's a question based on those assumptions. Taking it further.
Do these analyses apply more stringently to HOT women? Isn't it possible that, if we're desperate for constancy or normalcy or decent behavior, all that we really need to do is lower (if we could) our standards in terms of looks? Isn't it the case, that if a woman knows she's hot, then she starts to give herself extra credit on the responsible-behavior score, and she feels more free -- gives herself leeway -- to be flighty and irresponsible? I don't frankly think I COULD find ugly women to be attractive to me merely because of their decent behavior, but it's an interesting thought-experiment to ponder.
Isn't it really just the case that hot girls think they should be able to get away with more?
Or maybe, we guys here at TUSCL aren't actually meeting the desirable women who behave in decent ways AND are hot looking. I think for example of the Washington courtesan types, as portrayed by Julia Robers in the upcoming Tom Hanks movie "Charlie Wilson's War." She's politically motivated, extremely intelligent, interested in doing good for mankind (as she perceives it -- defeating the Soviet Union), and stunningly good looking. Maybe these women are reserved for Senators and the like, and we poor mopes are complaining about female behavior as being too low grade, merely because we only ever meet low-grade females.
Something to consider.
For us already married guys, married usually a few decades back, this is not a big deal issue, however any single guy in the the USA trying to find BOTH a "hot looking" and "decent" behaving lady for a serious relationship or more, you might be asking too much in this day and age. Its like buying a great stock where the price itself has already factored in all the benefits. For example Cisco at 200 was a great company to buy however all the greatness was factored into the price, so it was a poor investment. Hot chicks today know they are hot and expect to be treated and often spoiled just like queens, and who really wants to put up with that sense of entitlement?
Your large screen TV probably comes from China, your car is probably a product of Japanese engineering, and your refrigerator may be from Mexico
Point is today its probably better just to import a woman than to engage in an endless search for often spoiled american women. Women from certain latin and asian cultures are less likely to be spoiled and far less likely (than american women) to be man-haters. Yes, and they are traditional, which to feminists is some kind of crime, but who cares about what feminists thinks anyways?
Here is Rosie O'Donnell. She has multi-millions of dollars and is likely dating a butch-dyke lesbian. She has a thing for Tom Cruise. She is always busy with her show-business career, and really does need someone around the house to help her with silly little projects which you basically can't hire someone for -- ya know, picking up the adoptive kids from their Feng Shui class, or double-checking to make sure the car detailing man actually gets it all clean under the left cup holder where the dog vomited. You are invited to be her pool-boy / live-in / husband. She will marry you and offer a decent pre-nuptial contract which basically gives you some money, a decent lifestyle, and a sense of self worth. You must fuck Rosie O'Donnell every other day for the rest of your life.
Good luck.
The "spoiled" monicker hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what I was thinking -- the entitled princess attitude. Your suggested solution, to change the field so that we do our hunting among foreign women, is indeed an attractive one. It has disadvantages, though.
One major disadvantage that I've heard about, is the fact that when women GET here, they go all materialistic and misandrist. They LEARN from watching "Desperate Housewives" and seeing the Jones's wife next door, just how bitchy they can be, and they instantly adopt it. I've heard this on more than one occasion, generally on the internet, about mail-order and foreign brides. Even when "true love" (of the North American romantic-ideal kind) existed, it was rapidly erased by materialism.
Another point I'd make is, perhaps ... the men are LETTING the women act entitled? One major life-lesson to be learned from the internet's "seduction" websites and community, is that you have to grow a spine. When a chick acts all princessy, she isn't so much (a) making a demand that, if met or not met, determines whether or not she approves of you and your ability to fulfill her demands; rather, she is much more likely (b) acting deliberately unreasonably, and deliberately bitchy, in order to see whether or not you're enough of a push-over that you will acquiesce to her (hence, you are milquetoast and undesirable) or will aggressively abuse her in retaliation (hence, you are dominant and desirable).
I utterly agree with this analysis of the female "testing" instinct. The sad thing about it is, that in our current social climate, it essentially guarantees that females will be either alone or brow-beaten and abused. They reject males who do not abuse.
Bookguy - given your very exacting requirements, if you are actually looking for a longer term (non-paid) mutual relationship, you are probably going to have to look at the foreign option, like it or not. I don't believe the americanization is a rapid as you've heard, there can be a genetic basis to some of their (generally more positive) attitudes toward men
Hot chicks, who we are know are more spoiled than ever today, are mostly turned on by money, and once you got it (alot of it) they sense the confidence, and that projects authority. Add to this that many also need certain physical characteristics, no not Tom Brady, but at least Peyton Manning doesn't hurt, or whatever they like - plus you have to be the gentlemen horndog they love, all those kind of things
The case normally presents itself when you have a single guy with many or most of the traditional types of things women are attracted to, who just also happens to not present some of the "malignant" alpha characteristics - with the tinge of nonmonogamy being the key one I've often referred to.
I've heard of some of these young social misfit guys supposedly taking (how to be the jerk or confidence cocky bastard woman love) courses to turn themselves into be womanizers or successful daters or whatever they want, and I'm not buying them many of them over the long term will be transformed
They've got to first have some of the basics, and with some of them that's going to end up either getting very rich or developing a very high level of charm and personality. Alternatively they might just need to focus on more regular women
I agree that the mere cosmetic application, after the fact, of the "malignant" alpha characteristics is likely ineffective. It's not enough to just start barking a few orders and talking about sleeping around. A man likely won't be able to pull off the act effectively in the first place (just how many of us can REALLY "fake" our way through whole social interactions? none ...), but more important, the guy won't know when he's going right or wrong. A truly dominant male simply has the advantage of being able to back off of any analysis and choose to be himself, and know that it will work. A poseur has to figure out which imaginary form of himself to be for the moment, and constantly modify his act.
Nevertheless, I differ on the subject of some of those "benign" attraction points. I haven't ever seen a woman attracted to intelligence, male good looks, strength, height, or wealth. She looks at Brad Pitt and mentally what happens is, "He looks hot." She hears about Ross Perot and mentally what happens is, "He has money." Nowhere does "I want to pair bond with him" occur, UNLESS THE MALE CAUSES THAT. I have no proof of this assertion, but I just "get it" about women. It's never about whether or not the guy is inherently desirable. Looks or money or height might get you an audition, but so will pure social aggressiveness and the chutzpah to ask a girl out. "Hey, I want to get to know you" is as effective as George Clooney's face.
To me, therefore, it's all about social skills. The trick is that AFTER you've presented either (a) George Clooney's face or (b) the statement "Hey, I want to get to know you" (in socially acceptable format, within proper context, etc. etc.), you ALSO know (c) how to change her emotions.
I don't know how to do this. I come off as someone who is "safe" to be with, someone who always respects others, someone that's hard to figure out, someone who isn't happy about life, someone who is disappointed that he keeps on getting fired instead of getting promotions, someone who is looking forward to a new chapter in my life. My buddy George G. comes off as someone whom she wants to have sex with. I don't get the difference. George doesn't either. He can't explain it. He certainly can't bottle it, because if he could, he'd be a millionaire.
In fact, I know a LOT of women who have told me LONG AFTER THE FACT, that "if only" something had been different, they'd have been quite happy to have hooked up with me. I don't believe them. The something that was supposed to be different varies from woman to woman. For some it was that I was too aggressive; for others, too passive. Some were in the "wrong time of life" and others were just "in the right time of life but blind to you." And so on.
I'm not looking for "true love" among strippers here. But I do think that the way that you interact with humans has some kind of consistency, from civilian life to strip club life. Sure, there are acts that we all put on, and different guises of behavior for different contexts. But there's also, for me at least, some kind of "social barrier" that I've felt all my life. Actually, I don't FEEL it -- I don't believe there's much of a barrier between me and other people at all. But then I do EXPERIENCE THE EFFECTS. "So, I want to get to know you. We should have dinner / coffee / " (fill in the blank with whichever I was trying at the time). Answer: "No thank you."
It's kind of weird, from a totally anthropological point of view. I wish a Martian anthropologist would fine-tune me, detail me, double-check my pheromones and my carpal tunnel syndrome and all the other seemingly unrelated details and give me a panacea, or at least a comprehensive analysis. Often, when I'm writing here at the boards, I'm just hinting at this overarching phenomenon. So people can rightly come at me from this angle or that angle about how I seem to have missed a certain point, or have a certain false assumption, or am lacking a given background item that's necessary. But if you look at it from the bigger picture that I am forced to see daily, I think you can get what I'm trying to get at.
What IS my "aura" anyway? Why is mine weird? Who's in charge of it? What can I do to improve it?
That's not true. Add a bit of the mandatory and critical implied undercurrent of the "gentleman horndog" (I need to screw lots of women) desire or behavior, and I would say a guy is in pretty good shape. Consider that wealth itself creates confidence, and women will sense and respond to that confidence - even when they have no idea how wealthy the guy actually is, which by the way is normally the situation in for example strip clubs.
What I mean is, that the characteristic itself (intelligence, confidence, wealth, etc.) isn't ENOUGH. I frankly have had, at times in my life, some or even almost all of those things. There's ANOTHER factor, which I have always lacked -- some kind of "aura," is the only way I can describe it.
I really think that having George Clooney's face, or Einstein's intelligence, or any of a number of those other "verifiable hard factors" is really only one part of the equation. If you lack ALL of them -- you're short, fat, ugly, poor, bald, stupid, dirty, frightened, no sense of humor, no friendliness, etc. -- then you won't ever get to the point of speaking with a woman, really. If you have ENOUGH of them, you'll get to talk to her. But THEN what? She won't just jump your bones merely because you have a little intelligence and an above average salary; nor if you have a GREAT face and a HIGH salary; or whatever other combination. You gotta DO something to MAKE her jump your bones. What is that thing which you DO? Believe me, I've taken action on the subject and found out that something's missing. It's not just, "Take the bull by the horns and ACT, dude."
What to do, then? Improve your aura? Stop thinking about aura and start thinking about ... what?
However I think they were just born ass.holes, not sure that can be trained-into somebody
Gee stripper boyfriends are often like that - what a surprise