My "aura" and attracting dancers

Yes, I've had those days myself. I don't think it's our 'aura' or any foul odors we might emit. My guess is that the dancers either are entertaining their regulars (whether or not they are tipping or buying), or if I am in an unfamiliar club, I get the feeling of "untrust", like maybe he's a narc? or vice? I know for a fact that if a club has been hit by the vice squad and is still open, they calm things down inside for a couple of weeks, then usually go back to normal activities.

Yah good theory. But I was AT my "regular" club and was seeing girls who are almost "regular" dancers ...

This is one of the great mysteries of going to strip clubs. One night everything is perfect the dances are great the service is impeccable all you have to do is show up. The next time at the same club with basically the same cast of characters everything is yuck. No matter how much you try its like pulling teeth to get anyone to even say hi. That is probably why I don't go to a club expecting fireworks each time. Take it for what it is and most of the time it is a "gratifying" experience. (That is not self gratifying by the way) At least on the occasions when our "aura" is low we can save a lot of money for when it is high. Maybe there is something to all the astrology, cycles of life etc stuff. Sometimes you are in a high cycle and everything is working. Then it wanes and the low cycle sucks.

Like the rest of you. When I am in a club where I am not known I get shot down. Once in awhile I get lucky. Trogangreg probably remembers one such visit to the Gold Rush Show Bar. But and I am bragging here when I am in my favorite club I am the "mother" of all regulars. The candy man does not get shot down and any fellow TUSCLer that attends with me. Gets the same treatment.

It happens to me some nights, even at a club where I'm a regular when my favorite dancers are there. It's natural to wonder what you're doing wrong or what bad vibe you're unintentionally giving off, but I don't think there's any reason to take it personally. It just shows how we as customers don't really play the central role of protagonist that we come to think we do in a strip club visit. When things go great for us, it's not our irresistible charm that's responsible, outshining the other guys on the sidelines, nor is the opposite true on nights when the tables are turned. It's just the way the cookie crumbles some nights.

Sometimes, I think it happens to me because I'm not particularly loyal to favorites. I think nothing of spending most of my time with new girls if they appeal to me, so faves may assume I can do all right for myself. But even that is probably imposing too much of a story line on it.

Unless a club is dead, I often seem to get a lot of attention. That's why I like sticking to regular clubs on many occasions other than I have more fun there. If the girls look good though, I don't mind them coming over and asking for a dance. I might occasionally have a problem in one of the regular clubs if most dancers are used to me not getting dances but I feel like trying them out on a different night. In one club there may only be a handful of dancers and 3 times as many guys many with big bucks they want to spend. If that's the case, they aren't going to mess with me when they got some big bucks to make first especially if the dancers are busy with their more routine regulars. A few dancers never seem to give up though. If a club is slow though, I can just drive a few miles to Platinum Plus and only being asked a dozen times for dances is a slow night for me there. I remember sitting at a table for over 30 minutes a couple of times without anyone coming over. That just makes the club seem very slow.

My slow nights probably consist more of not seeing any of my favorite dancers and not caring about all the new dancers. It seems like I met a whole lot of new dancers lately but my memory is fuzzy about all of them. I remember one odd one, she hugged me and said goodbye before she left the club. I thought that's weird behavior for a dancer I just met and didn't get a dance from. I did enjoy that though.

On the other extreme, getting asked for dances every 30 to 60 seconds is just plain annoying.

I get that feeling every so often at all the clubs I go to. Sometimes, they are all on you and sometimes, with the same bunch of dancers, they avoid you like the plague even though they aren't especially busy and they know I've spent money on them before. Sometimes, I think the cure-all is tipping them at the stage, but even that doesn't always work.

Sure, I think that happens to everyone from time to time. For me, it usually happens during the afternoon shift where I am unknown. Funny thing, on the rare occasion when I do visit a club during the day, I am often shunned despite being one of only a handful of customers in the club. I would think the girls would swarm to any customer walking in during the afternoon - but that is not always the case. The day shift dancers really seem to have their regulars, even more so than night shift dancers. So being an unknown commodity to them, they sometimes avoid me.

And I agree, while stage-tipping usually helps, certainly not always. A few times, at various clubs, I tipped a lot, trying to get anyone's attention, and nothing happens. I've seen it posted here several times - don't overtip - but sometimes just a buck doesn't do it anymore.

For established strippers, lets say a year or 2 in the business and making decent money, for MOST them at least I believe its not about who has the "aura" - instead nearly every move they make in the club concerning whether to talk with, hang out with, go over to, or ask for a dance - is a (conscious or subconscious) calculated decision intended to maximize shortterm or longterm earnings - and this means those they know to be big spenders or moderately big steady spenders (not tip rail chump change amounts) -will gets lots of attention

I entered a club (Club A) the other afternoon and my ATF (for that club) was tied up aggressively soliciting what apparently was a new customer (which I've previously urged her to do, rather than stand around waiting for customers as she's always done in the past), so I stayed a distance away. I had probably the no 4 and no. 5 girl (in a club known for dozens of very pretty dancers) and (strangely enough) also the waitress all over me for 30 to 355 minutes, while I tried to excecute Plan B -which was escape to Club B for another (super-level) ATF

The only "aura" I was putting out was "spends lots of money" "lots of the time" not much else. I did have some fun with these 2 dancers, using it as excuse to paw them etc, and the waitress -so it ended up 20 dollar bills for each of these 2 dancers (saving me big money because I've spent at least 1 to 2k on each one of these non-ATF dancers since summer), so I avoided dancing with them, and 20 bucks to the waitress to "spy" and find out exactly what was going on with the AFT in Club A. I had to be 100% sure she was tied up, because the ATF in Club A has been a bit angry at me for not seeing her in recent weeks.

In total including drive-time maybe an hour was wasted and I had only about 2 hours tops available for either Club A or Club B

When I got to Club B my other ATF was available and ready and her passion level was even higher than normal, as she (correctly) sensed I was lying when I gave my (phony) excuse why I happened to be arriving at that club later than usual that day, apparently producing that gentlemen horndog vibe many hot women crave so badly.

When your aura isn't "on," look at yourself in the mirror. Are you smiling? Do you look like you're going to spend money? Take a sniff too and see if you're not reeking.

JC - this a crazy sidenote, however interesting that you brought up smiling, because I believe smiling (at least in a non-club real world situation) is a big turnoff for many ladies. Now it sounds counter-intuitive, but many experts have tried to figure out how smiling evolved in humans, and the evidence suggests that smiling was used by humans to (delicately) back down at the last moment from a physical altercation -when their (comparatively intelligent) human brains began to understand that NOT backing down from a certain bad outcomes (e.g death or crippling injuries) with selected perceived superior opponents - could be a very unwise decision.

In other primates one will note that a tightened jaw and the exposure of teeth (the snarl), which bears a resemblance to a smile, is often used as a threat or warning display - it is in effect a precursor to battle -whereas the smile is basically a very minor (but significant) but far less threatening change (minor and subtle to avoid triggering any mistaken impression in a battle context) where the jaw relaxes slightly, thus in an evolutionary context represents submission or weakness

Point is even in a club situation (where everyone knows its nearly always about money anyways) if you think being attractive (in the chemistry sense) in some way to a stripper is a plus in terms of the "aura" etc - then a smile is likely to be a turnoff, a sign of a weak or submissive male

Either go up to strippers, or otherwise eyeball them so they can see respond and ask for a dance, but don't smile too much

Yeah, I've had some nights where things didn't click on all cylinders. Such nights had little/nothing to do with "my aura" and more to do with faves being VIP hogged or f*^koed, "just a minute" w. someone else, or dressing room turning into 30 mins., and rest of dancer crew not that inspiring. Times like these beg stay or bail dilemma. In 1 case w. fave being f*^koed, a relative new-b gave me off the chart mileage, on another, I bailed, secondary club was virtual 7Up factory. No 2 situations are alike.

David: your supposedly counter-intuitive revelations seem truthful to me. Basically, anything that a woman OUGHT to want? Anything that seems, initially, like she probably WOULD respond positively to it? Something that resembles being in her BEST interests? Don't give it to her. You'll fare much better.

In terms of what women respond to, keep in mind probably 99% of women sincerely BELIEVE they want the faithful, non-controlling, honest, and sincere "nice guy" and yet what they ACTUALLY want and respond to (what ratchets up this "chemistry" they spend so much time focusing on) -is usually quite the opposite. Even when confronted with this, most women will continue to explain it this way "well we don't like boring wimpy men" when in fact many many "nice guys" are not like that at all, but it provides an easy explanation for them.

In the thread on "stripper shit" I just posted I mentioned this dancer who I've had these crazy conversations with in recent months (she now wants a faithful CHEATER) - she claimed she finally admitted what I was saying was true and the example she admitted finally convinced her was when I asked her to tell me why she's attracted to BILL CLINTON and NOT attracted to GEORGE BUSH. She couldn't claim BUSH is a wimp or boring, instead she had to admit it was the horndog image of Clinton (in his case very explicit) that apparently explained her attraction toward him. Unfortunately it means for her that it is unlikely she will ever be attracted to a faithful guy, which is part of the burden that super-hot women must live with.

A wild guess goes like this: They know you and like you. They know your habits, likes and dislikes. In short, they take it for granted that you will wait until they have worked the room for money from other guys, maybe strangers, counting on you as a safe bet when they get around to you. I have had this happen a lot--and stopped being a regular to dancers who make me wait.

Last night apparently one good looking dancer was attracted to what she called an evil look. I didn't even know I had an evil look but she was walking by and I didn't think I did anything different. However instead of just walking by, she came over and said "why did you give me that evil look?" I said I didn't know what she was talking about. 2 minutes later she says "there it is again!" I looked in the mirror and I'm still not sure what she was talking about. Book Guy has an aura but I have an evil look that can stop a girl dead in her steps and make her come towards me. Maybe she's into that stuff.

If only the cold weather had stayed around a couple more days I could have really shocked her instead. The last week or two on occasion, I have been putting off small lightning bolts of static electricity all over the place. Now that temps are in the 70's, that's all gone. An evil look combined with shock power, now that's sure to get a reaction from a dancer. Lol, just joking.

The "evil look" sometimes would be just the non-smile, so she subconsciously avoids tagging you to be weak or submissive - just on that basis.

Smiling is a huge mistake and s/b avoided with strippers, unless its an ATF type or semi-reg and she's just accused you of either hanging around other clubs or screwing around with every women in town - then she might notice perhaps a small glint in your eye as you (silently) recall the wonderous pleasured of being with those other 6 women

Yeah, if you never smile, obviously a hot stripper will believe you're the sexiest man alive and not at all a geek, and she'll instantly want you to take her home and fuck her brains out.

SuperDude's explanation likely makes sense, except that I understood Book Guy's question to be about an aberrant experience on one particular night. I don't see a need for an explanation, certainly not one involving a so-called aura. It just happens sometimes. It's not about you.

>>>"Yeah, if you never smile, obviously a hot stripper will believe you're the sexiest man alive and not at all a geek, and she'll instantly want you to take her home and fuck her brains out."<<<

BINGO! :)

And, she will beg to turn over all her earnings to you. Seen it a million and eleven times.

Ok the advice in here sometimes sounds crazy, but there can be underlying truths to all of it. In regards to not smiling, its more about avoiding a negative. Casualguy does mention that a "dancer was attracted to what she called an evil look", however not sure if that would be typical, and in any case what strippers SAY and what they actually RESPOND to can be completely different. By seeing a customer merely not smiling (avoiding the usual negative) she's somehow translated that into an attraction, or used it as a basis to come up with her SS line

As for one's "aura" - if one gets into this (optional not recommended for all patrons) game thing with strippers one has to use whatever they got. If you are rich, tall, intelligent, reasonably good looking, a good talker or whatever you can bring to the table - you;ve got to leverage it, otherwise its basically hopeless as strippers are dealing with 1000's of guys a year -and they therefore represent a huge challenge.

Personally I find out their clock and then start dumping money on them for private dancer/VIP sessions around the days they heat-up, and I've got good results in terms of what interests me, because most do not seem to have the intellectual capacity to even connect it to ovulation - often instead assigning it to some higher order emotion.

Strippers in general are way overrated, but there are some real gems in the crowd.

And here I thought the customer held all the aces, and the only challenge was for the strippers. That's why the kind of night Book Guy described is such an anomaly is bears asking about.

David999 wrote this:

--"In terms of what women respond to, keep in mind probably 99% of women sincerely BELIEVE they want the faithful, non-controlling, honest, and sincere "nice guy" and yet what they ACTUALLY want and respond to (what ratchets up this "chemistry" they spend so much time focusing on) -is usually quite the opposite. Even when confronted with this, most women will continue to explain it this way "well we don't like boring wimpy men" when in fact many many "nice guys" are not like that at all, but it provides an easy explanation for them."--

Yeah, that's all I have to say. :)

I don't mean to be TOTALLY cynical -- my previous post about the way to a woman's heart being, simply, to give her the opposite of what's good for her or what she ought to respond to -- is a bit flippant and silly. I don't mean it literally.

But there is something to it. David999 has done a great job of getting more to the point. I think one thing that I tend to forget, is that not only is there this reversal going on (they say they want a nice guy but respond positively to a dominant and aggressive guy), but also they themselves are fooled about it (they genuinely BELIEVE they want a nice guy).

This a classic example: 4 or 5 yrs back, it one of those daytime talk shows, and the show focused on a young woman guest, good looking, mid to maybe late 20's, - where the theme was they would bring on the show 3 men she had dated (probably at least a month or two each) in the past.

Of the 3 guys: Person A was either military, marine or something, maybe he just got out of the service (cannot remember exactly), definitely good looking, well spoken, on the tall side, even appeared educated, gave the impression of being quietly macho, gave a sense of Gary Cooper in those old movies - and an most importantly presented himself as a real gentlemen. Persons B and C were not only jerks both were wiry, boderline ugly guys, real bad attitudes, with the cockiness but actually offering nothing that one would expect a woman to be interested in - sort of with a druggie look -real loser types

The purpose of the show was to sort why this woman (similar to many other women in her age group) could not sustain a relationship. Now of course since these shows are idiotic anyways they never actually figure these things out.

However during the show, one could easily tell she still had a thing for BOTH the 2 jerks types, and she all but ignored the gentlemen/military type - and two-thirds of the show was her arguing with the 2 jerks- but it was very very clear she wanted to go out with them again.

At one point they focused on Person A and his attitude was "hey did what I could, I've just moved on, not going to worry about it, that's the way it goes" Even as it was Person A's turn to present his side, you could see via the woman's expression and her body language, and it was clear that THIS guy she had zero interest in.

This just reaffirms that the easy explanation of so many women to kiss off "nice guys" by way of tagging them with some phrase like "of course I'm not attacted to boring wimps or weaklings" - is an irrelevant side issue

Obviously this military guy was not any kind of a wimp or weakling, gave no indications to be boring, his mistake in this case was that he probably gave off the aura of a faithful man - thus kicking the chemistry down for this woman

FROM "BEST OF CRAIG'S LIST" - an interesting post (from a few months back I believe), and brings up some interesting issues

BEGIN QUOTE

Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive.

Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to.

They are interested in how other people view him--how many people want to be around him, how other people interact with him and whether their interactions convey that he is special and amazing. They want him to be extremely outgoing and aggressive, they want him to demonstrate his status over other people by dominating them in various non-violent ways.

A woman's attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn't care who he actually is or EXACTLY what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself.

A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute. Although that sounds vulgar, it's true. She trades her physical self to buy into the success a man has created for himself.

As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things.

Sure, a huge part of my attraction is mental, but the powerful seed of love that builds within me and crystallizes is based greatly on visual things that set off torrents of emotion and need.

It seems to me that women almost cannot think for themselves. Their estimates of worth are based on other peoples' estimates of worth. They don't really find an object beautiful on their own. The object becomes beautiful when other people let her know that it is beautiful.


I'm completely unable to reconcile the differences between men and women. It seems like success with women is equal to spending half of your life working to create a giant illusion, something vastly tiring and annoying, while sacrificing your own true self and your own interests. We construct our lives around nest-building. We're like male birds building nests and showing them off to attract mates. It's pathetic. Everything we do is to get women. It is a fucking shit deal.

Someone needs to invent a drug which has no hormonal imbalance side-effects but is able to erase a man's sex drive and attraction to women. It would increase productivity rates to incredible heights. I'd be free and happy. I'd feel complete. I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying.

END QUOTE

Now of course in strip clubs, given that men are effectively paying women to pretend to like them etc, its obviously a very different reality than is being described in the prior Craigs List post. However some of the principals are still applicable as it relates to the "aura" issue.

"I'm completely unable to reconcile the differences between men and women" quoting the Craig's List poster I've cited above

The poster gives the issue a bit of a new spin, however I am surprised that he is so perplexed about why men and women approach love and sex and attraction so differently

The basic biology for the most part determines this difference: Men have millions of sperm and optimal survival chances derive from spreading that seed widely, whereas women have but a very limited number of eggs - so men seek volume with the most fertile women they can find whereas women seek resources to help care for their offspring

Resources in effect are traded for sex and beauty.

As the Craig's List poster states "A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute" however in fairness one could then say "men are basically horny sex crazed beauty mongers."

It's all (or mostly) about the money - girls will head for the guy who they think represents their best opportunity to make money. They'll keep a low-paying regular waiting while they spend time with a higher-paying regular or someone who they think might become one. They'll keep a club regular waiting while spending time with their own regular.

This is one of the main reasons why when I was clubbing regularly I always tried to (1) be some girl's regular, (2) treat her well both financially and otherwise, (3) go when the club was empty, and (4) call ahead and make sure she knew I was coming. That didn't always solve the problem but it did minimize it.

If you go when the club is fairly busy, and you spread your money around among several different girls, there will be times when they'll all be busy with someone who comes in just to see them. Even the girls who don't know you will know your habits if you're in the club a lot.

Excellent posting from Craig's List.

I'd add to it, the other dirty little secret about women: they're deliberately harming themselves daily.

No doubt in clubs, its (close to) pure capitalism at work, as these girls are constantly, consciously or subconsciously, making decisions that will optimize both shortterm and longterm earnings. Most girls, unless they what I would call "Fun dancers" - are going to follow the money trail, they don't care about "aura"

By the way, the Craig's List poster while presenting the traditional basic notion that "men trade resources for sex and beauty" idea -while he does apparently cite male controlling behavior, he fails to appreciate that much more is usually needed in most case for a woman to fall "in love" with a man - as he can have many of the traits the poster has cited, but if he's also happens to be the traditional faithful, sincere, and honest "nice guy" - the odds of winning the girl over are going to be reduced, as such "nice guys" (subconsciously) in evolutionary terms (not in reality of course) are considered dead ends - thus (as the genes perceived them) decreasing the woman's ultimate odds of genetic survival

I'm perfectly comfortable with the chance of a night like Book Guy's happening to me once in a blue moon. It just makes the times when everything clicks seem that much sweeter. A club routine that guarantees particular attention from a particular girl is not my idea of fun. For me, a good time at a strip club (or most anywhere) means encouraging chance encounters and allowing for failure. Unless you stick to your predictable routine and close yourself off from the surprising experiences, there will be nights when you get ignored, regardless of your *ahem* aura.

"This is one of the main reasons why when I was clubbing regularly I always tried to (1) be some girl's regular, (2) treat her well both financially and otherwise, (3) go when the club was empty, and (4) call ahead and make sure she knew I was coming."

With the exception of 4, I use this approach in certain clubs, and if she happens to be busy (which they usually are not), I wait a bit or in rare cases head to another backup club

Now as to the "aura" issue, I've never thought of it that way, but I guess my approach is to make sure when a particular dancer is around me a number of things are going to be happening: money will flow in fairly large amounts if I like a dancer, (always at least at a min a 100 dollar bill for at least one VIP session) and if I've not buying multiple VIPs or whatever, I'll be slipping her 20's at various times if we're just hanging out - as she knows I value her time, plus I'll be (at times) slipping bribes to DJs to make sure certain songs get played, songs she likes, and we both like, plus I'll have always have 5 different things to talk about ready-to-fly, things that will interest her, plus I will help her avoid stage calls, by timing private dance sessions that conflict with her call-ups. The point is I will make sure things will be happening when an (AFT level) dancer and myself are together. One can never be sure what a particular dancer is thinking about a patron, but (with an ATF that I like) they will never label me as boring, uninteresting, or cheap

Now dancers, like women in general, need to be kept off balance and unpredictable, in fact they crave this although they won't admit it, so the spending patterns (e.g in special cases) do have to vary to the degree possible, however never knowing precisely when you will showup at a club is a no-cost way of creating unpreditablity - plus it increases the odds they will acuse you or implicitly suggest you are hanging out with other dancers around town, or (even better) maybe other non-dancers - the point being all this is good and something most women subconsciously want and need, the degree of all this being of varying relevance depending upon exactly what kind of relationship the dancer and patron actually have.

http://x17online.com/celebrities/eva_lon…

more proof that hot women crave cheaters - anyone really think Eva Longoria (Desperate Housewive's hottest chick) didn't suspect her boyfriend/husband was cheating? The reality is: odds are very high she would never be attracted to a man their either didn't cheat or she didn't suspect (rightly or wrongly) was cheating. Its all basic biology and evolution. No doubt the same with French model Alexandra Parassant, probably never got turned on by a guy that wasn't married and/or cheating.

Just to clarify, when I was clubbing regularly I used to travel a lot on business. So I had what I consider to be the best of both worlds - I had a regular girl near the city that I visited regularly, and I had frequent chance encounters in other cities.

I can sympathize with all the analysis of "the feminine mystique" that's going on in this thread. The idea that, once a man is caught he's boring -- hence, they prefer the uncatchable, or at best the cheater. The idea that aggression and dominance are desirable so, no matter how much they talk about it, being a sweet nice guy is actually not desirable at all. The idea that they do and don't know this about themselves all at once. The fact that they'll respond positively to one thing and then complain about that very thing. The concept that a customer is, inherently, "needy" and desperate for sex and therefore cannot ever be interesting as a romantic partner. The concept that sex itself is dirty, evil, something no woman should ever allow a man to be interested in, and yet exactly the reason they like men. Etc.

All these ideas make sense to me.

Here's a question based on those assumptions. Taking it further.

Do these analyses apply more stringently to HOT women? Isn't it possible that, if we're desperate for constancy or normalcy or decent behavior, all that we really need to do is lower (if we could) our standards in terms of looks? Isn't it the case, that if a woman knows she's hot, then she starts to give herself extra credit on the responsible-behavior score, and she feels more free -- gives herself leeway -- to be flighty and irresponsible? I don't frankly think I COULD find ugly women to be attractive to me merely because of their decent behavior, but it's an interesting thought-experiment to ponder.

Isn't it really just the case that hot girls think they should be able to get away with more?

Or maybe, we guys here at TUSCL aren't actually meeting the desirable women who behave in decent ways AND are hot looking. I think for example of the Washington courtesan types, as portrayed by Julia Robers in the upcoming Tom Hanks movie "Charlie Wilson's War." She's politically motivated, extremely intelligent, interested in doing good for mankind (as she perceives it -- defeating the Soviet Union), and stunningly good looking. Maybe these women are reserved for Senators and the like, and we poor mopes are complaining about female behavior as being too low grade, merely because we only ever meet low-grade females.

Something to consider.

"Or maybe, we guys here at TUSCL aren't actually meeting the desirable women who behave in decent ways AND are hot looking."

For us already married guys, married usually a few decades back, this is not a big deal issue, however any single guy in the the USA trying to find BOTH a "hot looking" and "decent" behaving lady for a serious relationship or more, you might be asking too much in this day and age. Its like buying a great stock where the price itself has already factored in all the benefits. For example Cisco at 200 was a great company to buy however all the greatness was factored into the price, so it was a poor investment. Hot chicks today know they are hot and expect to be treated and often spoiled just like queens, and who really wants to put up with that sense of entitlement?

Your large screen TV probably comes from China, your car is probably a product of Japanese engineering, and your refrigerator may be from Mexico

Point is today its probably better just to import a woman than to engage in an endless search for often spoiled american women. Women from certain latin and asian cultures are less likely to be spoiled and far less likely (than american women) to be man-haters. Yes, and they are traditional, which to feminists is some kind of crime, but who cares about what feminists thinks anyways?

Let's see now....you guys, who aren't interested in girls who aren't hot, are trying to figure out why these hot girls aren't interested in guys they "should" want - guys like you. Is it possible that you "should" be more interested in girls who aren't hot? Then everybody would be happy. No angst, no self-help tips to transform yourselves into bad boy chick magnets.

Hahahah ... yea, we "should" be interested in someone who "should" reciprocate. But we CAN'T be. You go try:

Here is Rosie O'Donnell. She has multi-millions of dollars and is likely dating a butch-dyke lesbian. She has a thing for Tom Cruise. She is always busy with her show-business career, and really does need someone around the house to help her with silly little projects which you basically can't hire someone for -- ya know, picking up the adoptive kids from their Feng Shui class, or double-checking to make sure the car detailing man actually gets it all clean under the left cup holder where the dog vomited. You are invited to be her pool-boy / live-in / husband. She will marry you and offer a decent pre-nuptial contract which basically gives you some money, a decent lifestyle, and a sense of self worth. You must fuck Rosie O'Donnell every other day for the rest of your life.

Good luck.

David9999:

The "spoiled" monicker hits the nail on the head. That's exactly what I was thinking -- the entitled princess attitude. Your suggested solution, to change the field so that we do our hunting among foreign women, is indeed an attractive one. It has disadvantages, though.

One major disadvantage that I've heard about, is the fact that when women GET here, they go all materialistic and misandrist. They LEARN from watching "Desperate Housewives" and seeing the Jones's wife next door, just how bitchy they can be, and they instantly adopt it. I've heard this on more than one occasion, generally on the internet, about mail-order and foreign brides. Even when "true love" (of the North American romantic-ideal kind) existed, it was rapidly erased by materialism.

Another point I'd make is, perhaps ... the men are LETTING the women act entitled? One major life-lesson to be learned from the internet's "seduction" websites and community, is that you have to grow a spine. When a chick acts all princessy, she isn't so much (a) making a demand that, if met or not met, determines whether or not she approves of you and your ability to fulfill her demands; rather, she is much more likely (b) acting deliberately unreasonably, and deliberately bitchy, in order to see whether or not you're enough of a push-over that you will acquiesce to her (hence, you are milquetoast and undesirable) or will aggressively abuse her in retaliation (hence, you are dominant and desirable).

I utterly agree with this analysis of the female "testing" instinct. The sad thing about it is, that in our current social climate, it essentially guarantees that females will be either alone or brow-beaten and abused. They reject males who do not abuse.

Chandler - agree the endless focus on "hot" women can be a big mistake, assuming were talking about for example borderline 9 or full 9 or 10 level girls. Often times huge problems come with those looks

Bookguy - given your very exacting requirements, if you are actually looking for a longer term (non-paid) mutual relationship, you are probably going to have to look at the foreign option, like it or not. I don't believe the americanization is a rapid as you've heard, there can be a genetic basis to some of their (generally more positive) attitudes toward men

Hot chicks, who we are know are more spoiled than ever today, are mostly turned on by money, and once you got it (alot of it) they sense the confidence, and that projects authority. Add to this that many also need certain physical characteristics, no not Tom Brady, but at least Peyton Manning doesn't hurt, or whatever they like - plus you have to be the gentlemen horndog they love, all those kind of things

David9999, I don't have any complaints about hot girls or American women. I take them or leave them as they are, and I don't believe they should be something else. I was simply poking fun at the idea that they aren't attracted to men they "should" be and that imitating a few reverse engineered traits of some bad boys they do go for will transform you into their type.

Chandler - I believed your were (and are) referring to among others Book Guy's comments and I will have to agree in that case - for example if one is saying simply (by itself) that by adding the "malignant" attraction points of the seed spreading alpha male - (nonmonogamy, a perceived predisposition toward violence, deception, controlling behavior and so forth) w/o having any of the traditional "benign" (universally accepted by women) attraction points (e.g. intelligence, looks, strength, height, wealth etc) - adding those malignant points by themselves will rarely permit a man to all of a sudden catch the interest of highly attractive women

The case normally presents itself when you have a single guy with many or most of the traditional types of things women are attracted to, who just also happens to not present some of the "malignant" alpha characteristics - with the tinge of nonmonogamy being the key one I've often referred to.

I've heard of some of these young social misfit guys supposedly taking (how to be the jerk or confidence cocky bastard woman love) courses to turn themselves into be womanizers or successful daters or whatever they want, and I'm not buying them many of them over the long term will be transformed

They've got to first have some of the basics, and with some of them that's going to end up either getting very rich or developing a very high level of charm and personality. Alternatively they might just need to focus on more regular women

David: but most men CAN'T "focus on more regular women." Take my Rosie O'Donnell example. I find the advice of "lowering your standards" perfectly reasonable if the suggestion basically comes out to meaning, that the guy has to stop chasing the 10 Hollywood starlets and start chasing the 7 law associates. But if it comes out to meaning, that the guy has to stop chasing the 7 law associates and start chasing the 3 alcoholic crack addicts, then there's going to be another issue.

I agree that the mere cosmetic application, after the fact, of the "malignant" alpha characteristics is likely ineffective. It's not enough to just start barking a few orders and talking about sleeping around. A man likely won't be able to pull off the act effectively in the first place (just how many of us can REALLY "fake" our way through whole social interactions? none ...), but more important, the guy won't know when he's going right or wrong. A truly dominant male simply has the advantage of being able to back off of any analysis and choose to be himself, and know that it will work. A poseur has to figure out which imaginary form of himself to be for the moment, and constantly modify his act.

Nevertheless, I differ on the subject of some of those "benign" attraction points. I haven't ever seen a woman attracted to intelligence, male good looks, strength, height, or wealth. She looks at Brad Pitt and mentally what happens is, "He looks hot." She hears about Ross Perot and mentally what happens is, "He has money." Nowhere does "I want to pair bond with him" occur, UNLESS THE MALE CAUSES THAT. I have no proof of this assertion, but I just "get it" about women. It's never about whether or not the guy is inherently desirable. Looks or money or height might get you an audition, but so will pure social aggressiveness and the chutzpah to ask a girl out. "Hey, I want to get to know you" is as effective as George Clooney's face.

To me, therefore, it's all about social skills. The trick is that AFTER you've presented either (a) George Clooney's face or (b) the statement "Hey, I want to get to know you" (in socially acceptable format, within proper context, etc. etc.), you ALSO know (c) how to change her emotions.

I don't know how to do this. I come off as someone who is "safe" to be with, someone who always respects others, someone that's hard to figure out, someone who isn't happy about life, someone who is disappointed that he keeps on getting fired instead of getting promotions, someone who is looking forward to a new chapter in my life. My buddy George G. comes off as someone whom she wants to have sex with. I don't get the difference. George doesn't either. He can't explain it. He certainly can't bottle it, because if he could, he'd be a millionaire.

In fact, I know a LOT of women who have told me LONG AFTER THE FACT, that "if only" something had been different, they'd have been quite happy to have hooked up with me. I don't believe them. The something that was supposed to be different varies from woman to woman. For some it was that I was too aggressive; for others, too passive. Some were in the "wrong time of life" and others were just "in the right time of life but blind to you." And so on.

I'm not looking for "true love" among strippers here. But I do think that the way that you interact with humans has some kind of consistency, from civilian life to strip club life. Sure, there are acts that we all put on, and different guises of behavior for different contexts. But there's also, for me at least, some kind of "social barrier" that I've felt all my life. Actually, I don't FEEL it -- I don't believe there's much of a barrier between me and other people at all. But then I do EXPERIENCE THE EFFECTS. "So, I want to get to know you. We should have dinner / coffee / " (fill in the blank with whichever I was trying at the time). Answer: "No thank you."

It's kind of weird, from a totally anthropological point of view. I wish a Martian anthropologist would fine-tune me, detail me, double-check my pheromones and my carpal tunnel syndrome and all the other seemingly unrelated details and give me a panacea, or at least a comprehensive analysis. Often, when I'm writing here at the boards, I'm just hinting at this overarching phenomenon. So people can rightly come at me from this angle or that angle about how I seem to have missed a certain point, or have a certain false assumption, or am lacking a given background item that's necessary. But if you look at it from the bigger picture that I am forced to see daily, I think you can get what I'm trying to get at.

What IS my "aura" anyway? Why is mine weird? Who's in charge of it? What can I do to improve it?

"I haven't ever seen a woman attracted to intelligence, male good looks, strength, height, or wealth."

That's not true. Add a bit of the mandatory and critical implied undercurrent of the "gentleman horndog" (I need to screw lots of women) desire or behavior, and I would say a guy is in pretty good shape. Consider that wealth itself creates confidence, and women will sense and respond to that confidence - even when they have no idea how wealthy the guy actually is, which by the way is normally the situation in for example strip clubs.

OK, you're right. I need to rephrase that sentence.

What I mean is, that the characteristic itself (intelligence, confidence, wealth, etc.) isn't ENOUGH. I frankly have had, at times in my life, some or even almost all of those things. There's ANOTHER factor, which I have always lacked -- some kind of "aura," is the only way I can describe it.

I really think that having George Clooney's face, or Einstein's intelligence, or any of a number of those other "verifiable hard factors" is really only one part of the equation. If you lack ALL of them -- you're short, fat, ugly, poor, bald, stupid, dirty, frightened, no sense of humor, no friendliness, etc. -- then you won't ever get to the point of speaking with a woman, really. If you have ENOUGH of them, you'll get to talk to her. But THEN what? She won't just jump your bones merely because you have a little intelligence and an above average salary; nor if you have a GREAT face and a HIGH salary; or whatever other combination. You gotta DO something to MAKE her jump your bones. What is that thing which you DO? Believe me, I've taken action on the subject and found out that something's missing. It's not just, "Take the bull by the horns and ACT, dude."

What to do, then? Improve your aura? Stop thinking about aura and start thinking about ... what?

you are definitely talking about some kind of hardcore chick magnets, and the only guys I'm known that were anything like that really didn't have anything special per se -but just happened to be total assholes with women... treated women like complete sh..it

However I think they were just born ass.holes, not sure that can be trained-into somebody

Gee stripper boyfriends are often like that - what a surprise