How you deal with taking an L in the mongering game

pretty much my experience too.

even yesterday.

As ling as you learn from tour mistakes, you avoid being a bottom-rung PL. Every GOAT has a few games in the L coloumn.

I usually get mad for a short time. Then I get over it. No reason to dwell on anything for long. There is always another stripper or sugar baby out there to change your attitude.

I've tried spending my way out of a bad decision before, and it almost always goes poorly. At this point, I'll shrug it off and save my cash for the next visit.

In the past I’d drink more and spend more - and get angry. That approach rarely ends well.

Currently, I either call it an off night (take the L), or I move to a different club.

Some nights are just not good nights for you - and sometimes a change of scenery makes a big difference. If I move to a different club, and it’s not working, then I call it a night.

What is this "L" of which you speak. :D

Though it wasn't always so, irritation, then moving on. Not much profit in anything else.

I'm guessing that we've all paid tuition at some point, learning the hard way that throwing good money after bad never ends well. I know that I did in my younger years. It takes a certain amount of discipline not to start chasing when a bet goes sideways, but I also believe that nobody who fails to learn that discipline makes it as long as many of the guys on this board have been mongering in clubs.

For me, part of that discipline includes minimizing instances where I pay upfront and walking away when things are going south. Experience has taught me (and I'm sure others) that once they games start, they will just ramp up if one continues to participate. I never pay special tips or OTC cash in advance, so at worst I might be out a room charge or the cost of a few dances, which doesn't burn too badly.

But applying that kind of discipline can be challenging when the little head is trying to get it's way. It requires being willing to walk away yourself or let her walk. But experience has also taught me that any girl who is serious about what she promised is ok with simple confirmation that I have the money or some other compromise, like half before and half after. The girl who adamantly insists on getting it all upfront is very likely running a game, so when I walk away I consider myself fortunate that I only burned the cash and time that I did.

same - got burned, sit down, vent in mind, go to plan b. if the mood goes away to want to try anybody after that just get up and leave.

but perhaps most important is to learn from that L and not repeat that one along with the previous L's.

@Muddy

I will play along and answer your question:

Q: how do you guys take dealing with spending on something that didn’t quite go your way?

A: In this hobby I look it as this way: it is the cost to get rid of a person I don’t like, she is out of my life for that price.

You teach people how to treat you, by what you allow them to get away with, what behavior you stop and what behavior you reinforce.

I can't tell exactly what you meant by spending your way out of a bad decision. If you mean, things are going badly, throw more money at it to see if it can get better.... I think that's a very natural instinct, especially when you're young and new at this. I'm pretty sure most of us have been embarrassed at the outcomes of chasing sunken costs, and don't do it. It's almost wired into me at this point, I take the sunken cost at a loss (and hey, these are strippers -- I always know things might not work out, I accepted this fact before I even asked her to the VIP or OTC), make the best of whatever the situation is or bring it to an end, move on. At this point the notion of rewarding bad behavior isn't something I'm going to do

Well it can be frustrating when you have limited time. i.e. That was the once chance I had this week to go out or limited funds which is always a thing.

@subra lol no I meant spend (waste) it on a another girl and see how that one goes.

Basically a good rule of thumb is not to throw good money after bad, the key is recognizing your mistakes early so as not to compound them

===> "Well it can be frustrating when you have limited time. i.e. That was the once chance I had this week to go out or limited funds which is always a thing."

Ah huh. That's when the worst decisions are always made. You just spent half your budget and your night on a girl that just didn't pan out, but you don't have enough money to start fresh with another one. So you start to feel like you either need to double down on the girl you're with to see if things improve or spend beyond your budget to start over with the next gal.

Two problems with that:

1. If the girl you're with is bad, she's likely to get even worse with more time and spending. Maybe she even realizes that you're little head is in control and makes promises that she will never keep. While your besotted brain convinces you that you already have a spending foundation with her, she's just trying to figure out how to finish milking you dry - and not in the good way.

2. Guys who roll off of bad experiences often make bad subsequent decisions. Getting more cash to start fresh is one of them, as is the pressure you put on yourself to turn the loss into a win. The best girls are often found when we are clear-headed and relaxed, not when our heads are already clouded by blue balls courtesy of failed missions.

When your night is going sideways, the best decision is almost always to reach for your keys instead of your wallet. Trying to force it instead almost always just makes matters worse. Sure having a bad night out sucks, but there's always the next time.

In the case of air dances, I pay for one and leave it. If it’s really shit, I’ll let her know by saying “ok that’s enough” before the song wraps. I always pay full price, and always after. No hugs for air dances.

In the case of not getting extras, I pay for one or two dances, pop the question, and then if it’s not happening I say “ok thanks very much”, pay and hug it out. I try to always be a gentleman about it, even when there were strong implications of extras out on the floor. I chalk this up to exploration costs, remind myself that I did just get to touch boobs, and move on.

In the case of a no-hit evening, I do get a bit sour, but keep it to myself and try to remember that sometimes it’s just not gonna happen.

In all cases I take out my frustrations on TUSCL by writing a shitty review for shitty experiences!

Reading this thread, the subject of paying “before” came up, and I thought, “who pays before for a stripper?” This brought to mind a similar instance where I heard of someone paying a whore after services rendered, and I thought “who pays a whore after?”

In my mind, the whore’s services are expected between both parties, so the only question is whether the trick is trying to pull a fast one, hence money is exchanged upfront. However, with strippers, there is a bit of a guessing game as to just how far she’ll go, so the deed becomes the question, and the money becomes the fixed point, and you pay after.

Right? Or do some of you guys actually pay for dances up front?

I think there has only been 3 or 4 times in my clubbing life that I have paid upfront. I did so because I wanted it so bad that I was willing to take a chance. I made good choices because I have never gotten burned in VIP or OTC.

Good insight drew. Twice I have said yes to paying for a lap dance upfront. Both times the dance was less than I wished. Less than my club/area average. So, not again.

"Right? Or do some of you guys actually pay for dances up front?"

I'll always choose to pay after if given the chance. And in the past, in many of the clubs, it depended on the girl, to some extent. But these days deja vu has made it a requirement to pay in advance, the girls are threatened with their jobs if they screw that up, so in most cases you either pay in advance or find a new city to go SCing in.

I wouldn't spend money I don't want to spend. And I've never had a hooker not offer sex. I decline though

I mean if you go VIP with a new girl and the mileage sucks it's not crazy to follow up immediately with a reliable provider.

@subraman: I did not know this about deja vu. On the face of it, this seems like another reason to avoid deja vu, but then again if it’s standard operating procedure, then maybe it’s no big deal?

I use to take L’s all the time; but then I downloaded the latest-version of “The System” and now I’m golden

I'm not a risk-taker by nature - if I have a bad-experience w/ a dancer then I tend to become gunshy and will be more careful w/ my $$$ in the club.

It can also depend on how horny I am - if I'm going to the club 'on a serious mission' per se then I may get frustrated after an L and try harder to get what I came for - but w/ age and SC-experience I've learned to not get too-emotional in clubs and more-or-less take them for what they are both the good and the bad - but if the overall club is a bit too-cutthroat w/ a higher-chance for L's than other clubs I hit, I will either be extra-careful or avoid hitting that club at least not too frequently.

"... Right? Or do some of you guys actually pay for dances up front? ..."

It depends on the area, but in most clubs it's typical to pay for dances at the end - the issue of "upfront payment” often discussed on TUSCL has to do with VIP/extras when there’s significant, often hundreds of dollars, on-the-line – there are dancers that have no intention of following thru on extras but still want the big-extras-$$$ and will demand payment upfront and then not follow thru as the custy thought/assumed – it’s very easy for a dancer to take advantage of a custy this way and even if it’s not the norm it happens often enough – the rule-of-thumb is that once a stripper has your $$$ you are not getting it back whether she follows thru or not and as a custy you have little to no recourse – dancers know this and although not all dancers are ROBs there are plenty ROBs out there.

For me based on my experience, most dancers that demand upfront payment are often either duds or ROBs – there are some dancers that are not ROBs and want upfront payment b/c they’ve either been burned b/f or are concerned they will get burned (not paid); but for me given the # of ROBs out there it’s too risky to pay upfront especially when one is talking hundreds of dollars – in the case I see a dancer that’s worried about payment, I’ll do as @Dugan mentioned and show her I have the $$$ but tell her I don’t pay till the end – most dancers are aware there are dancers that rip-off custies and most honest/smart dancers understand where a custy is coming from w.r.t. not wanting to pay upfront.

Just to reiterate I am not saying to go in deeper (no pun intended) on a ROB. I mostly try what JamesSD just said. I'm the kind of guy that's always trying something new, so that kind of opens you up to get burned sometimes. It is what is. If it happens, I try to reach back in the quiver for something I know.

===> "Reading this thread, the subject of paying “before” came up, and I thought, “who pays before for a stripper?”"

In clubs that sell timed rooms, it's common practice for them to collect the room charge upfront. The girl and the club usually split that in some manner, but you can't go back until the ferryman is paid. I don't know of any club anymore that charges less than $150 for a time block and many want $200+.

Moments like this can be a real test of one's discipline. As good as one might be at negotiating prior to heading into the back, the occasional misfire is inevitable. I've had fun 95+% of the times I've pulled the trigger on a timed room, but there were a handful of times when it became clear that I was played.

When you've already sunk $200+ just to get back there, it takes a good deal of discipline to (1) hold your ground when she tries to shake you down for an "extra tip" in advance; and/or (2) recognize when things are going sideways and walk away despite what you paid to get in there. Now fortunately many girls go to back rooms highly motivated because their share of the room charge is often 50% or less, but there are some who have no qualms about living on a few room cuts each night and plus whatever they can get dupes to tip them upfront.

I've never been to a club where you don't pay beforehand. Also it's normal to tell a girl how many dances you want and pay her. I don't see the problem with that.

And whenever girls offer to fuck for money in vip they've always told me beforehand that they'll fuck if I go to vip. Cuban girls will ask for vip while trying to hand me a condom.

@rick: interesting. I’ve only ever bought VIP once here in seattle, and it was $50 to the club before, and $200 to the dancer after. See my my recent review for details: tuscl.net

I believe you drew. The model fluctuates depending upon the club and the region. I've seen what you experienced too. But there are other clubs that require the full payment before entering the VIP rooms. Desire, SS Johnny's and some of the Pasco FL clubs are a few examples, but there are others. When this happens, some clubs will immediately hand the dancer her cut and others pay the girls out at the end of the night (or when the cc payment comes through lol).

I stick to the type of sex worker who's a "natural". For some reason, isn't seriously disgusted by sexual activity with people she finds unattractive. Without needing to numb herself up with anything. Similar to how some people don't find it as hard to change diapers or bed pans as others. I've gotten pretty good at recognizing them with one song, not that hard. Since pleasing the PL has a lower emotional cost to them, they have less reason to resort to trickery. No reason to lose out on a potential regular.

@ilb: that’s an interesting idea. Is there any characteristic that helps you identify these naturals?

^^^^ The locals that I have called, "The Beloved Latina Escorts" were definitely naturals. Any time spend with them meant close to close facial intimacy and they change you.

SJG

Almost all the clubs in Louisville are prepay for both dances and VIPs. No choice involved.

@drew For what you want, I'd suggest buying one song, and telling her you like it when the dancer touches you with her hands. A "natural" I think would rub your crotch a least a bit through your pants. I don't think it's inherently bad to also ask for what you want. The tricky part there is whether being busted for solicitation is a realistic fear for the dancer or the PL. I can certainly understand it that dancers get offended, if they're asked for extras in an entitled way. It they get mad even when asked politely, I suspect that's a feigned, mindgame thing.

It's easier for me, because I've resigned myself that, with a dancer who appeals to me, she's unlikely to be OK with more than good 2-Way. I assume that her 30-minute dance will just be a longer version of her one song dance. Measured expectations sometimes lead to nice surprises.

Yeah; when it comes to payment, as others have mentioned, certain regions have a different M.O.

I’ve never been to a prepay club although I’ve clubbed in a bit over 100-different clubs although in only a handful of different cities/areas – the clubs I’ve hit dances were always paid to the dancer and not the club – in SoFlo dances used to be $20 and from what I remember the dancer kept all of it – at some point in the 2000s SoFlo changed to $25 dances where the dancer has to give the club $5 out of every dance and thus almost every club has a dance-counter keeping track – in Dallas where I became a semi-regular-SCer back in the 2000s, many of the clubs seem to still be $20/dance and the dancer keeps the whole dance-$$$ and there isn’t a dance-counter keeping track.

w.r.t. VIP/extras, the clubs I’ve hit which are not prepay one just usually pays the room-fee to the club upfront usually in the order of $100 – not sure if the dancer gets a cut of this but my presumption is they do not and the $$$ the girl gets is what you arrange w/ her and you pay her directly and she keeps all that.

So this has been the M.O. of the clubs I’ve hit – one pays the dancer directly for dances and in some cases (Dallas) they keep all the dance-$$$ and in some cases (SoFlo/Miami) they have to give $5 to the club for each dance they do and the club has a dance-counter keeping track – and w.r.t. VIP/extras; if it’s available then one pays the house-fee and that goes to the club and then she keeps w/e you negotiate w/ her and you pay her directly.

There are clubs; seemingly common in places like the Midwest, where extras are not allowed but there is “VIP” in the sense of dances being sold in blocks of time in addition to single-dances – in many of these clubs one pays the club for a block of time for VIP dances and the club gives the dancer a cut – there are also some clubs where on pays for a block of VIP dances and extras are possible then you just give her extra-$$$ on top to add the cut she gets from the club for VIP – I’ve never been in one of these clubs just read about them on reviews.

Bottom line there isn’t one standard common across the country as strip-clubs are usually governed by laws at the city-level and thus can be quite-varied from city-to-city and region-to-region.

There are some clubs where dances are actually by time instead of by song, which I feel is fairer (if a custy is paying a set price for a dance it’s not fair he should get less time b/c the DJ plays a short song or the DJ cuts it; so in essence the custy is always paying the same price but not always getting the same amount of dance-time) – there are also some clubs where the custy actually inserts $$$ into a machine in the dance-booth and then gets a certain amount of time for the dance – which I feel is also a good way to go since it eliminates either the dancer over-counting the dances or the custy not paying at the end or the custy thinking he did less dances than he actually did.

Its not a big deal. I suck sometimes at golf too.

Doubling down your bet following a loss usually doesn't work out. Assess what went wrong. Were promises made that weren't kept? Did you do something out of character (pay more than usual or pay front)? If you stick to your game plan and it doesn't work, it's an inevitable loss and you move on to the next encounter.

@ilb: this make sense and is in line with my current approach at talent identification.