Putting controversial comments in emails was just fucking stupid. Especially by 2011, when everyone who worked in a professional setting knew that emails are forever. Just...fucking...stupid.
I won't opine on whether these were firing offenses as there are arguments to be made on both sides, but he brought this on himself. I hope he saved up his money because it's doubtful that he's ever going to see another big check from an NFL team or any media outlet.
^ Ski, when you are in a high profile public facing role, you can't say some of the things that he said in an email. There are no doubt plenty of Raiders fans - and NFL fans - who are black. Some might even be gay. Go to a bar and share your jokes and pics in person, but FFS don't put then in emails that someone is doubtlessly permanently archiving.
^ Not to mention how the fuck can he coach a team in league like the NFL, when well over 70% of his players are black, you think he'd ever get the best effort from his players again after the contents of those e-mails are exposed.
Agree Rick, but it’s not just stupidity. If you write racist, misogynistic and homophobic comments in emails over a ten year period to an NFL exec on his office email, you’re not joking, you’re not being taken out of context, that wasn’t the old you. It’s prima facie evidence that Chucky actually is a racist, misogynist and gay hater.
Maybe I read the wrong thing. But I didn't see anything racist about the email that was released. He called that one guy a dumbass who happened to be black. Made fun of his name. But are black males so sensitive that we can't do that ? Again, show me the racist comments. To me this seems like an attack from Roger Goodell toward someone that openly hated him.
He may or may not deserve to be fired, but that comes with the territory for an NFL head coach. They make big bucks but can be fired for almost anything, including embarrassing emails, losing, pissing off an owner, letting some young blonde rub her sweet little ass on your lap, etc.
@warrior - he also said DeMorris Smith had “Michelin lips.”
@stud - clarification, he wasn’t fired he resigned. Probably not much of a difference as if he hadn’t resigned he would’ve been fired.
Also, this was from one email recipient. If Gruden decided to take a stand how many “me toos” would’ve come out? I stand by my point. Those emails show who he is. There are no doubt many more emails, texts and witnesses to verbal comments that would’ve and probably will come out. That’s a guess but I think I’m on pretty firm ground.
===> "It’s prima facie evidence that Chucky actually is a racist, misogynist and gay hater."
A misogynist because he liked pics of titties? I think that's a stretch. 😉
But putting aside the quibbling, you think he was the only one in those chain emails who shared his views? Why did he feel so comfortable sending that stuff around in the first place? And how about millions of people who work in office jobs who may have their own belief regarding these things?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own views. He's hardly alone in liking titties and disliking the notion of male on male ass sex, by way of two examples. Why I called him "stupid" was not because of his views, but because he's a high profile person working for employers with broad constituencies yet lacked the good sense not to put those views in email. Email is forever, as anyone who has been using it for decades should know by now.
I think in particular the homophobic comments were really going to be a locker room problem since a Raiders player (Carl Nassib) came out in the offseason. I also think given his questionable job performance in the first place, this was the perfect excuse to send him out the door. The fact that he resigned rather than be fired is all the better for them, as now they don't have to pay the remainder of his contract.
Jimmy, Does he have Michelln lips ? People make fun of my bald head. Can I get them fired for it ? My idea of racist is "that guy can't play QB because he's black" . OR "Obama was a bad president because he is black." I don't see that in what Chucky said.
Now I have not seen the other emails and supposedly those are worse. Those rumors are when Chucky resigned so maybe he did say some bad things in those.
@dugan. Is he a misogynist because he likes tits? No. Is he a misogynist for sending a topless pic of a Washington cheerleader to her boss? Yeah, I think so, but I concede that it doesn’t prove a hatred towards women generally so maybe the label is misplaced if that’s the only thing in the emails. I stand by my conclusion that there will be more me toos. He’s not a good person.
@warrior Racist because you’re bald? That’s a false equivalence. Big lips are a racist trope. Did I actually need to type that? Making fun of someone’s physical characteristics that fall under a stereotype is racist.
He’s not a good person and if people want to pick apart the evidence go ahead. Does anyone want to say he should keep his job in a public position as a supervisor over black, gay and female subordinates? Try and make that case.
===> "Does anyone want to say he should keep his job in a public position as a supervisor over black, gay and female subordinates? Try and make that case."
A person's personal or political views should never be a litmus test for whether he keeps his employment. With that said, obviously they can't keep him, but again that's not because of his views but because, despite his position and employers' circumstances, he was dumb enough put those views in email.
Weak Jimmy whines about making fun of some guy's lios but progressive rats make fun of people's appearance all the time so he's the typical lefty hypocrite. If we make political correctness the litmus test, and we have, we will fail; and we are.
So Gruden said that man had lips like quality name brand tires, big deal.
Although making fun of someone's big lips is often considered a stereotype the people that harp on it the most and perpetuate it the most are the true racists that define everything by race.. liberals.
It's not like there aren't any people that are white, latin, or other races that don't have big lips. I have personally seen many white people over the years with what most people would consider abnormally large lips.
2 well known examples, Chelsea Clinton and her dad Webster Hubbel.
The media and libs want to define the rules and definitions by bending them. Same shit as when covid started and Trump wanted to limit Chinese air travel to the USA and media and the libs called it racist. Chinese is a nationality not a race.
They say enforcing our southern border security is racist because most of the illegals are originally from south of the border and disregard that said security applies to everyone not just latins.
Yeah Gruden's a loose cannon and he fucked up mainly by not seeing the PC writing on the wall when he sent those emails but in a country that supposedly has freedom of speech it's a shame that now everyone has to comply by the PC woke rules of the day or be destroyed.
Fuck it! Many of you will disagree with my comments, go ahead, it's your right just as it's supposed to be my right to offer my thoughts on this.
You have every right to say what ever is on your mind, but don't whine about it if people take offense at what you said, and retaliate, stupid thing for a man in John Gruden's position to put out there, sounds like he's really a moron.
A leader of men shouldn't be making comments like Gruden made. However, they were supposed to be private and 10 flipping years ago. We need to stop with this kindergarten mentality. Everyone isn't nice and it's not a crime to make fun of somebody.
I was leaving and had to log in again to respond.
Anyway you ruffled my feathers a bit once and although we have many differing opinions, so far no harm no foul.
anyone who sends out what he wrote to or from company e-mail deserves what they get. He should have known there was no reasonable expectation of privacy.
When someone leaves a putt short I will now say: "I know you tried your best and I was hoping you would make it, but without judging you, I think hitting it harder might help"; instead of: "fag".
Some sports fan sites also claimed there were Anti-Semitic e-mails. But I can’t find anything news articles reporting this. If that’s true then it’s strike 4. Blacks, gays, women and Jews.
First off, there were dozens of email with many examples that were too graphic to repeat in the news story. His fat lips comment was the tamest of the ones I read.
Second, he should have known better but the ppl he sent those emails to received those thoughts because he believed they would be well received. I expect that there was many incidents where emails were forwarded or responded to by like minded recipients. The NFL will have to follow the email chains to see where all those emails led and were initiated. Very likely dominos will start to fall all over the league.
While Gruden should have been aware enough to not put in writing comments he wouldn’t want to see in the paper, it’s easy to see how he thought he was conversing with like minded peers that wouldn’t be inclined to blab. Unfortunate for him.
Finally, once branded a racist, homophobe or misogynist he’s not going to be working in the business anytime soon (if ever). It is the kiss of death, ask Kevin spacey, Matt lauer, Charlie rose or any of the dozens of others that have been branded by “me too”.
It seems that, unless your last name is Trump, locker talk makes you persona non gratis. That must piss Gruden off to no end, especially given he supported the Donald.
I didn't see anything particular in the emails that i havent heard worse in person. In this day and age racist, misogynist, homophobe, etc are all terms that mean you can't say anything negative or anything that may or may not be offensive about said group. That said, these people that have their dirt on the internet, in texts, phone calls, etc are going to be exposed more and more going forward with cancel culture. Jon garden wont be the last casualty. If we continue down this road there will be many more people on both sides of the spectrum that will see their past exposed.
"Whats done in the dark eventually comes to the light."
Matt Walsh blog:
"I hope Jon Gruden has learned a valuable lesson. If you want to have a job in the NFL, stick to beating your wife, raping massage therapists, and assaulting pregnant women."
@yahtzee. I get that he was trying to be shocking, but the issue is the evidence. Ask Ray Rice or Kareem Hunt. It’s the video that gets you. That’s what domestic abuse has always looked like, but nobody got crazy until they actually saw what it looks like when a professional athlete hits a woman. Although, Greg Lloyd got away with a lot after beating his wife or girlfriend and there were lots of pics of her bruises and medical records if her injuries. No video though.
I really don't care about Gruden. What I do care about is inconsistency. That is what bothers me about Referrees in games, call it the same both ways. So if you are calling out Gruden for his emails being racist then you should call out Biden for his "Racial Jungle" comments.... If you believe that Gruden should not be coaching Black men because of his emails then surely Biden should not be President because of his comments.
So in order to be consistent and fair.... If you are in this thread raising hell about Gruden saying he is stupid or should not be allowed to coach or he should be fired, etc. Then in order to not be a fucking lying hypocrite you should also publically call out Biden for the exact same reasons.
Exactly... What gruden said was wrong and stupid.... however if we are going to judge him then judge everyone using the same scales. That seems fair to me
I wonder if Gruden might release some of his personal emails from the last 15 years as a mea culpa. I am guessing he isn't the only NFL coach or player to use vulgarities in their email. All those years as a coach and ESPN analyst, he might be able to burn the NFL to the ground on his way out. If calling someone a pussy is misogynistic and cancel-worthy, bet a lot of athletes would have their livelihoods threatened. (and yes I know about the Michelin tire thing, but every report also talks about the misogynistic and homophobic language and that has been part of every locker room I have ever been in.)
NFL reviews 650,000 emails and only Gruden's are leaked? Fuck the NFL". Wow i didn't know that info. haha Goodell is showing him who is the boss. It's always better to be the guy with the bigger stick!
Don't misunderstand me... Gruden was wrong for doing what he did. My point is solely that we should judge everyone equally. Ray Rice? OJ? Ray Lewis? Mike Vick? are all issues in football.
Look at the lyrics of the halftime artists for the Super bowl... That would make Jon Gruden look like kindergarten
Look at the crazy Shit Biden has said
All these liberals running around slamming Trump for locker room talk, slamming Gruden, etc.... Unless they are also calling fpor Biden to Resign, OJ to be kicked out of HOF, etc... Then they should keep their hypocritical comments to themselves... they are useless partisian hacks
I haven't read the actual emails, just what's been mentioned - calling someone names one does not like should not be a shock - I see black-guys cut each other down as bad or worse than this.
If it was a black-guy making a derogatory comment about a white-person I don't think they would get the same treatment - last year both DeSean Jackson (NFL wide-receiver) and Nick Cannon (TV host) both made nasty antisemitic *public* (not private) comments and AFAIK they are both still employed in their respective careers - from what I see what Gruden said was more name-calling w.r.t. people he doesn't like although I have not seen the actual emails; just that he called certain people X,Y, or Z.
This is getting ridiculous, ain't nothing to do with liberals or any other stupid labels y'all want to attach to what's happening, my bet is a whole bunch of idiots, that haven't got enough sense to keep their mouths shut are going to get rolled up in this and I'm going to laugh at all of them because they are just poor schnooks that thought they were so smart getting themselves in trouble because they're really morons .
Damn boys does anyone know how to keep their fat yaps shut ?
54 comments
I won't opine on whether these were firing offenses as there are arguments to be made on both sides, but he brought this on himself. I hope he saved up his money because it's doubtful that he's ever going to see another big check from an NFL team or any media outlet.
@stud - clarification, he wasn’t fired he resigned. Probably not much of a difference as if he hadn’t resigned he would’ve been fired.
Also, this was from one email recipient. If Gruden decided to take a stand how many “me toos” would’ve come out? I stand by my point. Those emails show who he is. There are no doubt many more emails, texts and witnesses to verbal comments that would’ve and probably will come out. That’s a guess but I think I’m on pretty firm ground.
A misogynist because he liked pics of titties? I think that's a stretch. 😉
But putting aside the quibbling, you think he was the only one in those chain emails who shared his views? Why did he feel so comfortable sending that stuff around in the first place? And how about millions of people who work in office jobs who may have their own belief regarding these things?
Everyone is entitled to his/her own views. He's hardly alone in liking titties and disliking the notion of male on male ass sex, by way of two examples. Why I called him "stupid" was not because of his views, but because he's a high profile person working for employers with broad constituencies yet lacked the good sense not to put those views in email. Email is forever, as anyone who has been using it for decades should know by now.
@warrior Racist because you’re bald? That’s a false equivalence. Big lips are a racist trope. Did I actually need to type that? Making fun of someone’s physical characteristics that fall under a stereotype is racist.
He’s not a good person and if people want to pick apart the evidence go ahead. Does anyone want to say he should keep his job in a public position as a supervisor over black, gay and female subordinates? Try and make that case.
A person's personal or political views should never be a litmus test for whether he keeps his employment. With that said, obviously they can't keep him, but again that's not because of his views but because, despite his position and employers' circumstances, he was dumb enough put those views in email.
would a black head coach be fired for emailing the same exact things that gruden posted?
goodell isn't going anywhere - team owners hired him and most of them love him because he makes them lots of money.
Although making fun of someone's big lips is often considered a stereotype the people that harp on it the most and perpetuate it the most are the true racists that define everything by race.. liberals.
It's not like there aren't any people that are white, latin, or other races that don't have big lips. I have personally seen many white people over the years with what most people would consider abnormally large lips.
2 well known examples, Chelsea Clinton and her dad Webster Hubbel.
The media and libs want to define the rules and definitions by bending them. Same shit as when covid started and Trump wanted to limit Chinese air travel to the USA and media and the libs called it racist. Chinese is a nationality not a race.
They say enforcing our southern border security is racist because most of the illegals are originally from south of the border and disregard that said security applies to everyone not just latins.
Yeah Gruden's a loose cannon and he fucked up mainly by not seeing the PC writing on the wall when he sent those emails but in a country that supposedly has freedom of speech it's a shame that now everyone has to comply by the PC woke rules of the day or be destroyed.
Fuck it! Many of you will disagree with my comments, go ahead, it's your right just as it's supposed to be my right to offer my thoughts on this.
Anyway you ruffled my feathers a bit once and although we have many differing opinions, so far no harm no foul.
I'm outa here now ...
I'm sure we've all said shit that could get us fired, but don't give your boss an excuse to.
Second, he should have known better but the ppl he sent those emails to received those thoughts because he believed they would be well received. I expect that there was many incidents where emails were forwarded or responded to by like minded recipients. The NFL will have to follow the email chains to see where all those emails led and were initiated. Very likely dominos will start to fall all over the league.
While Gruden should have been aware enough to not put in writing comments he wouldn’t want to see in the paper, it’s easy to see how he thought he was conversing with like minded peers that wouldn’t be inclined to blab. Unfortunate for him.
Finally, once branded a racist, homophobe or misogynist he’s not going to be working in the business anytime soon (if ever). It is the kiss of death, ask Kevin spacey, Matt lauer, Charlie rose or any of the dozens of others that have been branded by “me too”.
It seems that, unless your last name is Trump, locker talk makes you persona non gratis. That must piss Gruden off to no end, especially given he supported the Donald.
"Whats done in the dark eventually comes to the light."
A random black guy on espn.
"I hope Jon Gruden has learned a valuable lesson. If you want to have a job in the NFL, stick to beating your wife, raping massage therapists, and assaulting pregnant women."
So in order to be consistent and fair.... If you are in this thread raising hell about Gruden saying he is stupid or should not be allowed to coach or he should be fired, etc. Then in order to not be a fucking lying hypocrite you should also publically call out Biden for the exact same reasons.
jay z: dude was peddling drugs and killing some people with them in his neighborhood.
dr dre: a documented domestic abuser
emimen: take any one of his popular songs back in the day. that one song will have 10-20x more offensive words than all og gruden's emails combined.
i didn't know deshaun watson was still being paid this season, even for the games he's already missed. 24 women accusers?
Exactly. He's pissed someone off along the way so it was payback time.
Look at the lyrics of the halftime artists for the Super bowl... That would make Jon Gruden look like kindergarten
Look at the crazy Shit Biden has said
All these liberals running around slamming Trump for locker room talk, slamming Gruden, etc.... Unless they are also calling fpor Biden to Resign, OJ to be kicked out of HOF, etc... Then they should keep their hypocritical comments to themselves... they are useless partisian hacks
If it was a black-guy making a derogatory comment about a white-person I don't think they would get the same treatment - last year both DeSean Jackson (NFL wide-receiver) and Nick Cannon (TV host) both made nasty antisemitic *public* (not private) comments and AFAIK they are both still employed in their respective careers - from what I see what Gruden said was more name-calling w.r.t. people he doesn't like although I have not seen the actual emails; just that he called certain people X,Y, or Z.
Damn boys does anyone know how to keep their fat yaps shut ?
Where’s the evidence he’s misogynistic? All I’ve seen is that he e-mailed topless pictures of cheerleaders.
That seems pretty harmless compared to the front room make out sessions mentioned in the first chapter of the TUSCL playbook