I understand folks have their criticisms about making this a federal holiday. Right now, I just can't see any negatives about it. I remember finding out about Juneteenth way back when I did. So to see it as a holiday today blows my mind.
Unpopular opinion here, but I don't agree when folks say, "...if MLK was alive today, he wouldn't want a statue of him or a holiday for him..." What? How do you know? LOL. Before MLK was assassinated, he wasn't as 'popular' as he is today. Especially with his views towards The Vietnam War, etc. So, that's all he remembers before his death. For him to see a statue in D.C. honoring him and a federal holiday, I think a part of him would smile. And it's like folks forget, his wife Coretta was also behind the push for the national holiday for him. MLK's fraternity was also behind the push for putting a memorial statue of him in DC.
I had to interview once a group of folks who a generation ago, let's say started a local revolution of sorts. I showed them the current leaders of that revolution who weren't exactly or always the same like-minded folks visually or intellectually but everyone was still upholding the same revolution. The founders were smiling. They told me they thought their revolution would die when they left campus and graduated. The couldn't believe 20, 25, 30 yrs later, their revolution on campus is still around and still being fought and preserved. I think folks forget that we all as people can be insecure and think our ideas and deeds go unnnoticed or will die with us or not continue.
I'd think MLK would smile today, in a way. I think he'd remember the late 60s and how some folks felt about him at that point and would smile on the low to see a statue of him in DC today with a national holiday and respect around the world 50 years after he passed. You know, it's like: if you were to travel to 100 years from now and see that your family name is still around. Sure, there were instances of alcholism and bad years along the way to those 100 years, and blah blah, but your family name is still around and you see family members who slightly look like you and are in professional fields like yours 100 years from now. c'mon, you'd smile.
Saying what I said above, though, I don't know if those who initially followed the Confederacy when it occurred would feel 'happy' to see so many confederate monuments or confederate worship today/ decades & centuries later. I think that's different. I think many of them would be embarrassed to see the confederate worship today.
I look at it like, playing in a high school state championship game and losing. You'd be kinda embarrassed that people put up statues of your losing team everywhere. LOL. You'd be like, "nah, we lost. we're good without the statues, everywhere thanks."
and let's not pretend here, i'm aware folks gonna have opinions on juneteeth. but it's "new" holiday shit. give it many, many, many years before it becomes what it's supposed to truly be. for now, it's gonna be what it's gonna be and i'm happy with it good or bad since you gotta start somewhere. but let's not kid ourselves. no way this holiday is gonna be defined correctly anytime soon.
we may not see it in our lifetime. but i'm glad it's here.
Something hardly anyone had heard off now it's the cat's meow and everyone has to pretend it's the greatest thing since sliced-bread - I'm sure it will do wonders w.r.t. the skyrocketing inner-city crime-rate but hey virtue-signaling trumps lives these days
I’m all for Juneteenth. Next summer I’m taking vacation between Juneteenth and Independence Day.
In exchange for that, can we stop using “folks”?
Goddamn, I hate that word - so fucking folksy it makes me puke. Like “I’m not going to use a lot of big fancy words with you simple folks. You too simple-minded to understand.”
It’s a paid day off. At worst, folks should be neutral on it. Just enjoy the day off and let the folks who want to celebrate or honor it do so in peace.
I had never heard of it until sometime last year, and I grew up in a town with a significant Black population. In fact we were always off of school for MLK's birthday long before it was a national holiday. I had a lot of Black schoolmates, some of them close friends, and quite a few Black teachers, and even a couple Black Principals and Asst Principals. I never heard of Juneteenth.
I was curious about it so did a little research: Juneteenth - June 19, 1965 - the Union Army announced and began to enforce freedom for slaves in Texas. But slavery continued in Delaware and Kentucky until December of that year, and within some Indian Territories until 1866.
I never realized that Africans were enslaved by Indian tribes including the Cherokee, Choctaw, and others. Interesting how those who insist white people are inherently racist often refer to the conquest of Native American Indians as an example, glossing over the fact that many of those tribes were slave owners.
That said, I've got nothing against this National holiday, but I wonder why not make it the day when ALL slaves were finally emancipated?
I lean right, but think it's a worthy addition to the pantheon of American holidays. At least as much as MLK's birthday--unquestionably a great American, but nothing big actually happened that day.
Freeing the slaves is worth celebrating on whatever day.
The actual commemoration of the end of slavery is important. It brings slaverys legacy and aftermath into the public light. It eases us into dealing with race problems. Makes it a part of our social consciousness.
We need to make Columbus day a native American genocide commemoration day. Basically come to terms with the reality of history and make a formal step to move on.
And
Mrorange. The 4th of July commemorates the declaration of independence not the actual independence from great Britain. Go bitch about that too.
The other day I heard something that made me think.
The presenter was talking about the French-system and according to him (I haven’t verified it myself) France does not separate its citizens by-race/into-racial-groups – they are all just considered French.
I def think this is the way to go – all this slicing-and-dicing of different groups and subgroups IMO does more harm than good; actually I don’t see what good it does; it divides instead of bringing everyone together as one; in many-ways it's the opposite of inclusion or at the very-least works against it – all this group-dividing will often make people look at each other as different (“you’re that I’m this”) instead of seeing each other as equal or just as a fellow human-being.
Cuba, where I was born, has approximately the same % of black in it’s population – to put it simply, when I see a black Cuban, I don’t see a black-person that happens to be Cuban; I see a Cuban that happens to be black – a simple statement that actually says a lot IMO – black Cubans are just considered Cubans; not “black Cubans” nor “Afro Cubans”; nor do black Cubans see themselves or call themselves anything other than Cuban.
OTOH – I see a lot of African Americans that seem to put their race/color above everything else w.r.t. who they are and want to make their race/color the most-important thing about them; just what I observe.
People in the US see themselves as hyphenated Americans coz that's how white America labels them.
There's a lot of racial tension in the US. A lot of cultural differences.
Like I've seen ghetto but after seeing certain types of black people from the south that was ghetto on steroids. Or small town people jn California vs Alabama for example. 2 different planets
Whiteness is normative in the US and that makes people feel excluded. But the real issue is class not race. Race has historically been a euphemism for social class in the US. During the red scare class disparities were the ultimate taboo so race became a euphemism.
"... I think jn the future today will be like the 4th. Parades bbqs. Community stuff ..."
That is what may be behind Juneteenth - the left is using race as a big-ole-wedge in their aim to bring down America and turn into a socialist nation - it's mostly about gaining political-power vs "race equity" - "race equity" is the excuse/means-to-their-end of gaining power - the left would love/want Juneteenth to displace July 4th as a part of their revolution/dismantling-of-America
It's a bullshit holiday to appease the leftist BLM race baiters. So what if some Union troops rode into Galveston on June 16 and informed the inhabitants that Lincoln had signed the emancipation proclamation over a year earlier? The same thing probably happened in dozens or hundreds of locations prior to that.
If we needed a holiday to commemorate the end of slavery, it should be Dec. 6, which is when the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery was ratified.
"The 4th of July commemorates the declaration of independence not the actual independence from great Britain. "
The Declaration of Independence would be more similar to the Emancipation Proclamation than to the liberation of a group of slaves after the war had ended.
If it celebrated the actual end of Slavery it would be a great, meaningful holiday and not the left taking advantage of an event that no one knew anything about, outside of Texas, and creating thier own narrative. I view it like Columbus day, we celebrate a man discovering America but he didn't. June 19 is celebrating the end of slavery except for the slaves that were still slaves. So do were all slaves not equal? The ones that were still slaves lesser slaves so we pretend they didn't exist or weren't slaves.
Juneteenth was made a state holiday in Texas in 1980. Its a precedent so instead of a brand new holiday it was made a federal holiday. Its historic peculiarity makes it special. It took 2 years for news of emancipation to reach Texas.
Honestly, pearl clutching over the exact date is a bit silly and just an exercise in partisan nitpicking. Jesus wasn't born on December 25, and Easter Sunday doesn't exactly match to the resurrection of Jesus. There are other holidays that don't exactly match the historical date and others that seemed to be picked at random.
The end of Black slavery in America was not a clean process, and it's likely impossible to discover the *exact* and verifiable date that the very last slave became free.
The Roman Christian historian Sextus Julius Africanus dated Jesus' conception to March 25 (the same date upon which he held that the world was created), which, after nine months in his mother's womb, would result in a December 25 birth.
As a moveable feast, the date of Easter is determined in each year through a calculation known as computus (Latin for 'computation'). Easter is celebrated on the first Sunday after the Paschal full moon, which is the first full moon on or after 21 March (a fixed approximation of the March equinox).
Just FYI it's how they came to the date for those.
If you were Jewish how would you feel about celebrating the end of the holocaust while Jews were still being killed? Once again I think the end of slavery should be celebrated but for the right reason, which is the end of slavery not close to the end.
"over the exact date is a bit silly and just an exercise in partisan nitpicking. Jesus wasn't born on December 25 ... Easter"
But those events happened thousands of years ago when record keeping was poor. In this instance we already know the truth and the big events with regards to the ending of slavery were the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment.
Uh huh. If the guy in the Oval Office was a guy you liked, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot less or likely zero arm-waving outrage if that guy created an national holiday with a date that didn't match what you want or believe.
Bigits trying to act pc and offended at the date 🤣🤣🤣
By the way. Holocaust remembrance day honors the communist Soviets liberating Auschwitz. Not the day jews stopped being killed. Hurry up and start feigning some more offense
I'm a conservative without a woke bone in my body (some might call it "common sense") but I think all this is a tempest in a teapot.
Commemorating the end of slavery deserves a day of celebration, whether Juneteenth, or when the Emancipation Proclamation was written, or the date the 13th amendment was ratified. Not over the others, but alongside.
No icee Holocaust Remembrance Day is an international holiday selected to remember that 6 million Jews and 11 million other people considered inferior were murdered by the Nazis the fact that they chose the date as the same date Auschwitz was liberated was just incidental
By the way the holiday was created in 2006 by the United Nations
You can have your own opinions but what I give you here is the facts.
Its not incidental that holocaust remembrance day is the day auschwitz was liberated by the soviets. That day was intentionally chosen because of its significance.
BTW I have no problem with a holiday commemorating the end of slavery, you can celebrate whenever you wish my understanding is that Juneteenth has a significant following and a tradition, so that’s the day that was chosen, it really doesn’t matter what day was chosen, the point is made
The date auschwitz was liberated by the soviets was chosen for its historic significance. The end of the horrors of auschwitz and the liberation of the captives is a very powerful symbol. And rightfully so.
^ I’m pretty sure you’re right CMI, but certain elements need to include drama as part and parcel of their repertoire else they’re just hungry for a Snickers
If Stalin doesn't sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler, WW2 may not have occurred. The Russians should be slapped, not praised. By the way Icee the word is Bigots, not "bigits". Wtf bruh? Commenmorating the end of slavery with a holiday when I read every day in left wing news that the effects of slavery are still going on....premature holidjaculation?
@Papi_Chulo everything you said sounds like you saying "the day of slavery ending is irrelevant to anybody and does not matter" and that's all the way fucked up no matter what flavor of koolaid you drinking brother. Is that what your saying right now? Because it sounds eeriely like it? What if I said "Indepence day is bullshit and just right wing bs agenda. Get over it." bet I'd have pitchfork mobs at my front door.
I think the biggest problem with trying to consider everyone just "american" or just "french" or whatever, is you effectively wipe out what makes everyone different. You wipe out a culture, you wipe out languages, you wipe out customs. Reason why America works....on paper is because it's one of those countries that heavily advertises, freedom of speec, religion, rights to bear arms, equal oppoprtunity for everyone. Like I said, on paper. That means that technically, if I'm from India, I should be able to come here, be considered an American citizen without losing my indian heritage and what makes me indian. THat's what we call a melting pot. But when people say "we're all one race once in a certain country" it also ignores what makes different cultures different. AFter all, you can't talk about salsa dance without talking about mexicans. Otherwise, we're lying and saying "it just came to americans in a dream" which is wiping it's historical context. Which was why I wasn't a fan when Morgan freeman said stop talking about race. That doesn't work.
Also, jim crow ended but racism still exists. Humans are individuals and not every individual will just do as you say because it's "the law"
A melting pot was the idea that we could take people from anywhere and from any culture, put us all into a pot and we would melt into a unified culture. It was 100% opposed to the idea you would become a citizen, but retain your old country culture. That's what we have now and why we are failing. Diversity has failed everywhere and every time. The most stable societies are not multi-cultural.
@skibum609 Unfortunately America's theme is based on the philosphy of seperation from Europe traditions. It's best historical context before the arrival of colonials are various Native American tribes and their history before paved over by a hodgepodge of foreign cultures and rapid evolution of various ideas and different societies. Juneteeth is american history, an event born from horrific practices and what spawned entirely new genre of subset of American citizens. We can say diversity failed but diversity also forced us to learn more than the bubble of our small towns and cities.
Plus it's not easy to unsee once you see it, so it ain't going away and it gives new meaning of exploration.
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I understand folks have their criticisms about making this a federal holiday. Right now, I just can't see any negatives about it. I remember finding out about Juneteenth way back when I did. So to see it as a holiday today blows my mind.
Unpopular opinion here, but I don't agree when folks say, "...if MLK was alive today, he wouldn't want a statue of him or a holiday for him..." What? How do you know? LOL. Before MLK was assassinated, he wasn't as 'popular' as he is today. Especially with his views towards The Vietnam War, etc. So, that's all he remembers before his death. For him to see a statue in D.C. honoring him and a federal holiday, I think a part of him would smile. And it's like folks forget, his wife Coretta was also behind the push for the national holiday for him. MLK's fraternity was also behind the push for putting a memorial statue of him in DC.
I had to interview once a group of folks who a generation ago, let's say started a local revolution of sorts. I showed them the current leaders of that revolution who weren't exactly or always the same like-minded folks visually or intellectually but everyone was still upholding the same revolution. The founders were smiling. They told me they thought their revolution would die when they left campus and graduated. The couldn't believe 20, 25, 30 yrs later, their revolution on campus is still around and still being fought and preserved. I think folks forget that we all as people can be insecure and think our ideas and deeds go unnnoticed or will die with us or not continue.
I'd think MLK would smile today, in a way. I think he'd remember the late 60s and how some folks felt about him at that point and would smile on the low to see a statue of him in DC today with a national holiday and respect around the world 50 years after he passed. You know, it's like: if you were to travel to 100 years from now and see that your family name is still around. Sure, there were instances of alcholism and bad years along the way to those 100 years, and blah blah, but your family name is still around and you see family members who slightly look like you and are in professional fields like yours 100 years from now. c'mon, you'd smile.
https://scontent-hou1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t…
I look at it like, playing in a high school state championship game and losing. You'd be kinda embarrassed that people put up statues of your losing team everywhere. LOL. You'd be like, "nah, we lost. we're good without the statues, everywhere thanks."
we may not see it in our lifetime. but i'm glad it's here.
Something hardly anyone had heard off now it's the cat's meow and everyone has to pretend it's the greatest thing since sliced-bread - I'm sure it will do wonders w.r.t. the skyrocketing inner-city crime-rate but hey virtue-signaling trumps lives these days
In exchange for that, can we stop using “folks”?
Goddamn, I hate that word - so fucking folksy it makes me puke. Like “I’m not going to use a lot of big fancy words with you simple folks. You too simple-minded to understand.”
I was curious about it so did a little research: Juneteenth - June 19, 1965 - the Union Army announced and began to enforce freedom for slaves in Texas. But slavery continued in Delaware and Kentucky until December of that year, and within some Indian Territories until 1866.
I never realized that Africans were enslaved by Indian tribes including the Cherokee, Choctaw, and others. Interesting how those who insist white people are inherently racist often refer to the conquest of Native American Indians as an example, glossing over the fact that many of those tribes were slave owners.
That said, I've got nothing against this National holiday, but I wonder why not make it the day when ALL slaves were finally emancipated?
Freeing the slaves is worth celebrating on whatever day.
We need to make Columbus day a native American genocide commemoration day. Basically come to terms with the reality of history and make a formal step to move on.
And
Mrorange. The 4th of July commemorates the declaration of independence not the actual independence from great Britain. Go bitch about that too.
The presenter was talking about the French-system and according to him (I haven’t verified it myself) France does not separate its citizens by-race/into-racial-groups – they are all just considered French.
I def think this is the way to go – all this slicing-and-dicing of different groups and subgroups IMO does more harm than good; actually I don’t see what good it does; it divides instead of bringing everyone together as one; in many-ways it's the opposite of inclusion or at the very-least works against it – all this group-dividing will often make people look at each other as different (“you’re that I’m this”) instead of seeing each other as equal or just as a fellow human-being.
Cuba, where I was born, has approximately the same % of black in it’s population – to put it simply, when I see a black Cuban, I don’t see a black-person that happens to be Cuban; I see a Cuban that happens to be black – a simple statement that actually says a lot IMO – black Cubans are just considered Cubans; not “black Cubans” nor “Afro Cubans”; nor do black Cubans see themselves or call themselves anything other than Cuban.
OTOH – I see a lot of African Americans that seem to put their race/color above everything else w.r.t. who they are and want to make their race/color the most-important thing about them; just what I observe.
There's a lot of racial tension in the US. A lot of cultural differences.
Like I've seen ghetto but after seeing certain types of black people from the south that was ghetto on steroids. Or small town people jn California vs Alabama for example. 2 different planets
This ends when we all get our swirl on and we're all mixed. I'm doing my part.
Keep plugging away, man. I'm sure that eventually you'll bait the usual suspects into another long, arm-waving flameware.
Which is, you know, the *entire* reason why you're here.
Cim youre projecting morives....
That is what may be behind Juneteenth - the left is using race as a big-ole-wedge in their aim to bring down America and turn into a socialist nation - it's mostly about gaining political-power vs "race equity" - "race equity" is the excuse/means-to-their-end of gaining power - the left would love/want Juneteenth to displace July 4th as a part of their revolution/dismantling-of-America
If we needed a holiday to commemorate the end of slavery, it should be Dec. 6, which is when the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery was ratified.
No. Black people chose African-American as their label. When I was growing up they were just black. Previous to that negros or colored.
The Declaration of Independence would be more similar to the Emancipation Proclamation than to the liberation of a group of slaves after the war had ended.
Stop trying to define us by our skin color. That’s called racism.
The fight to determine which group has the right to be called victim will not end well.
Tbh its the most meaning most freedom celebrating holiday we have
The end of Black slavery in America was not a clean process, and it's likely impossible to discover the *exact* and verifiable date that the very last slave became free.
So, they picked June 18. It's fine.
As a moveable feast, the date of Easter is determined in each year through a calculation known as computus (Latin for 'computation'). Easter is celebrated on the first Sunday after the Paschal full moon, which is the first full moon on or after 21 March (a fixed approximation of the March equinox).
Just FYI it's how they came to the date for those.
If you were Jewish how would you feel about celebrating the end of the holocaust while Jews were still being killed? Once again I think the end of slavery should be celebrated but for the right reason, which is the end of slavery not close to the end.
But those events happened thousands of years ago when record keeping was poor. In this instance we already know the truth and the big events with regards to the ending of slavery were the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment.
Is it just me or are there more black stars than white ones? That doesn't seem representative.
Hopefully this link will work. I tried linking to just the photo.
By the way. Holocaust remembrance day honors the communist Soviets liberating Auschwitz. Not the day jews stopped being killed. Hurry up and start feigning some more offense
Commemorating the end of slavery deserves a day of celebration, whether Juneteenth, or when the Emancipation Proclamation was written, or the date the 13th amendment was ratified. Not over the others, but alongside.
By the way the holiday was created in 2006 by the United Nations
You can have your own opinions but what I give you here is the facts.
I know. This will take some time to adjust. Just sit down and breathe deeply into a paper bag.
Also, jim crow ended but racism still exists. Humans are individuals and not every individual will just do as you say because it's "the law"
Plus it's not easy to unsee once you see it, so it ain't going away and it gives new meaning of exploration.