Sweden

The US population is about 330 million while Sweden is 10 million. So, if the US had implemented the Swedish approach, we would have seen around 350,000 to 400,000 deaths rather than the 50,000 to 60,000 we now expect.

I had hoped this post would be about the Swedish Bikini Team.

looks like sweden wants to take out there old people

I know Playboy did a pictorial with the Swedish Bikini Team but could not find it..... here's the World Soccer Team instead; scroll down for some nice pics:

redbust.com

"the 50,000 to 60,000 we now expect"?

The US will hit 46K and possibly 47K today. We are barely keeping the new case rate at a steady 30-40K a day. Yesterday was the highest number of new cases so far at nearly 40K. Expect 60K dead by the end of the month or so. Another 25K-30K in May. That 100K low estimate now seems low.

Your forward looking projections are highly suspect and the mortality rates are better than many countries that engaged in lockdowns, not that anyone has a handle on what those rates truly are right now. I've been following Sweden and the curve is already flattening.

Better still, they did it while keeping their economy intact. The Swedish people have seen what other countries have endured and have overwhelmingly approved this approach. In fact, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has never been more popular as he is now.

Longball, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you for linking to those pictures.

So Sweden tried a different tack with Coronavirus. Maybe it will work for them and maybe it won't. What was not addressed, and what I would very much like to know, is how their socialist healthcare system coped. Were there enough beds? Were there enough practitioners? Were there enough ventilators, dialysis machines, PPE, and test kits? It seems like they were going to let anyone and everyone get sick, and let fate decide who lived and who died. That is how it works in a communist society. That is why America will never be Communist, Socialist, Marxist or whatever BS label you want to apply to it.

Having said that, I agree with the Swedes. I'm still Team Thanos. We could do with a several million fewer Americans, and a few billion fewer people glabally. This pandemic is a missed opportunity to weed out the weak and decrease the excess population. You may be horrified by that, but it does not change the fact that I am right.

Glad they're trying something different so we'll be able to compare different approaches to dealing with the virus.

"I am willing give you death as long as you give me money," said some Republican governor somewhere.

Fake news, but I think this is the vision of some politicians.

^politicizing the virus. How very typical for a liberal.

I am using the Johns Hopkins site coronavirus.jhu.edu Click on the US in the list of countries. extreme bottom right, hover on the yellow bar graph. the last entry is 4/21 with 39,500 new cases. You can see for the entire month of April a range of about 26K to 33K new cases a day. looks pretty flat to me. The graph shows the peak on 4/9 with 34,100 cases, but there is a day with over 32K cases as recent as 4/18. There might be a slight downward slope, but that is reaching.

Also, death rate lags new case rate by 2-3 weeks.

The US is at 45,894. counting today, there are 9 days left in the month. Using your 1500 figure, that is 13,500 more added to 45,894 = 59,394. My 60,000 by the end of April was SUCH an exaggeration!

"This pandemic is a missed opportunity to weed out the weak and decrease the excess population."

Wow! What if you are part of the decrease of excess population?

^Jack he only cares that he is right LOL

I promised myself I'd stick to stripper and SJG organization talk here, but I'm a glutton for punishment :)

There's a few things to keep in mind about the Swedish model:

• Over 40% of people live alone. It has some of the lowest amounts of inter-generational households in the world
• An enormous number of Swedes are working from home, over 90% in major companies, a huge amount in general (lost the cite, sorry! will find it)
• There is near-universal access to Sweden's excellent healthcare system
• There is a strong, cultural sense of civic duty, and confidence in the state. Swedes have high confidence in their politicians, who in turn have high confidence in citizens. The government has given suggestions, not orders, and based on that alone, public transit saw ridership fall 50%+. In short, part of what Sweden has done is replaced legislated lockdowns with government suggestions with voluntary guidelines that civic-minded Swedish citizens just tend to follow.

Literally none of those things apply in the US (particularly the last one, which is arguably the MOST important), or any other country in Europe, for that matter, so there's no reason to think any other country would get the same results. Even with the unique Swedish cultural context, the death rate in Sweden per person is 5x and 9x, respectively, the most comparable countries; Norway and Finland, which both have lockdowns.

Anyway, just a caution on projecting Swedish methods on the US, or any other country except Sweden. No chance Americans voluntarily reproduce what the Swedes do.

and the swedes back their govt..... not a divided country like usa

"Trips from Stockholm to Gotland -- a popular vacation destination -- dropped by 96% over the Easter weekend, according to data from the country’s largest mobile operator, Telia Company. And online service Citymapper’s statistics indicate an almost 75% drop in mobility in the capital."

This is an incredible amount of ingrained "civil obedience" that is not reproducible here. To whatever extent Sweden is successful -- and the jury is still out -- nothing close to these numbers are likely achievable anywhere else

I've been using the following website which is fairly easy to read (at least on a laptop):

worldometers.info

If one scrolls halfway down the page one can see an easy-to-read bargraph of new-cases and total-deaths - it shows a peak of new-cases of 34.4k on 4/4 and slightly going down from there to ~26k on 4/21 (yesterday) - this goes inline w/ the reports that the curve has been flattening vs new cases increasing (at least w.r.t. new-cases).

Taiwan got the best CDC in the world...... only 80 miles from china.... a dense population cities like nyc......426 cases 6 deaths 236 recovered

@papi the two sites have information that pretty well agrees except for the huge difference in yesterday's numbers.

Japan is basically doing the same thing Sweden is, but at a larger scale. And they wear masks a lot more too. They don't seem to be weathering it as well despite only having around "300" confirmed deaths, and will likely eventually do some sort of shut down. I wouldn't rest the hopes of the future of this country on the practices of one of most liberal countries in the world. They're supporting their people with weeks of sick pay and universal medical care. Not exactly comparable...

"Despite pockets of attention-grabbing protests, a new survey finds Americans remain overwhelmingly in favor of stay-at-home orders and other efforts to slow the spread of the coronavirus. The survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research finds that more than a month after schoolyards fell silent, restaurant tables and bar stools emptied, and waves from a safe distance replaced hugs and handshakes, the country largely believes restrictions on social interaction to curb the spread of the virus are appropriate. Only 12% of Americans say the measures where they live go too far. About twice as many people, 26%, believe the limits don’t go far enough. The majority of Americans — 61% — feel the steps taken by government officials to prevent infections of COVID-19 in their area are about right."

Anyway, popular sentiment isn't indicative of the right thing to do -- majorities are often wrong. Just wanted to correct the mis-impression that vast hordes of Americans are ready to rebel, despite over-emphasis by the press of small vocal pockets.

BTW, I'm among those who think we have to start opening things up judiciously... we've squandered the time we bought, but can't wait much longer, the effect on the economy has been horrific. I am happy that the states leading the way are not my state.

Two house cats tested positive for Corona - and a dog in Hong Kong died of Corona - so it appears humans can give it to pets (vs the other way around, as far as it's known)

@bdirect "not a divided country like usa" Not just "divided". Substantial percentage distrust the government and think, to be brief, that the government is for some reason out to get them. (i.e. the deep state). Similar sized percentage thinks the head of the government is just stupid and corrupt, and will only act in his own self interest. Differences aside, no one trusts it.

@bdirect "Taiwan got the best CDC in the world...... only 80 miles from china" You might want to researcher the history and current relationships between Taiwan and China. It might be only 80 miles (close enough for artillery, at low tide, which the Chinese used to regularly fire as a reminder, might still do so), and almost everyone in Taiwan is ethnically Chinese, and from China... But, I'm not sure they allow direct flights. Or even allow each other's citizens to visit AT ALL? Not a lot of trust there...

@Subraman. First, I have to correct your statement (“- There is near-universal access to Sweden's excellent healthcare system”). Sweden has a horrible healthcare system, even worse than Norway’s, despite the nonsense spewed by those with an agenda to take control of the US healthcare system.

That said the point that you are trying to make, that Sweden is not the USA and what works in Sweden won’t necessarily work in the USA, is completely valid. Now I suggest that the same logic needs to be applied within the USA. Rapid City South Dakota is not New York City and Needles California is not San Francisco California. Different approaches dependent on individual circumstances should be the norm and not an either or choice of “open up” or “lockdown”.

There will be trade-offs no matter what course is taken. That is an inarguable fact. Mistakes have been and will be made. No way around that (I read today that idiot De Blasio wants to have a parade to honor healthcare workers as soon as this is “over””. Can you say second wave, as if he doesn’t have enough blood on his hands already, smh). What can’t go on without profound ramifications is shutting down the economy. Modern life is too dependent on what is an efficient system (from farm to table) but that system is also very fragile and will break down if something isn’t done. The clock is ticking.

What I will l suggest is that all of the numbers and polls being thrown around should honestly be set aside for “proving” anything. The numbers are KNOWN to be wrong if only because they aren’t accurate for understandable reasons or that they are often being manipulated for malicious reasons. This “crisis” has been hyped and is being used by many from all sides for their personal agendas. Yes people have and will die from the virus but people die every day from many things. People can hide under their beds if they like but in the end nobody gets out alive.

And if anyone thinks I’m being heartless, well FUCK YOU. Right now there is a young 26 year old doctor on a ventilator fighting for her life. I’ve live 61 years and if it were possible I would willingly take her place so she could live the long healthy and happy life that she should but that’s not the way things work.

Turn off the TV and computer and go get some fresh air. That’s my advice to everyone.

"There will be trade-offs no matter what course is taken. That is an inarguable fact. Mistakes have been and will be made. No way around that"

Agree completely. The mistakes that were done are done

"That said the point that you are trying to make, that Sweden is not the USA and what works in Sweden won’t necessarily work in the USA, is completely valid. Now I suggest that the same logic needs to be applied within the USA. Rapid City South Dakota is not New York City and Needles California is not San Francisco California. "

I think now -- not a month+ ago when it was recklessly being floated -- is the right time to cautiously go about that. And, that's what's happening, after all. I'm fine -- hell, THRILLED -- Florida is going first. You won't hear me complain about that.

BTW, doc, I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I can't find any source that doesn't rate Sweden's healthcare from good to world-class. But the state of Sweden's healthcare is not something I have a stake in either way

Johns Hopkins has now revised their 39,500 figure to 27,700 for yesterday. still well over 2,000 dead today. Please start trending downward.

Yeah but getting back to the important world stuff:

redbust.com

the dark haired German girl is my fav and those shower pics.... nice.

Good call Longball300. Yes I love the shower pictures the best. England girl OK. Oh sorry I guess we were supposed to talk about Sweden. Hmmmmmm Nice blondes

At 27,700 only 6,000 more dead will equal the toll from the flu...this year.

What was the flu total? COVID deaths were about 47,500 last night. I think 27,700 was new cases yesterday.

Open it all up and let Darwin sort it out. Amirite?

to save america we have to take out china

i believe china was going to use covid on us , but it backfired on them......

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm nervous a lot of terrorists and hostile foreign governments are paying very close attention to how this spread has basically crippled the world. They are always looking for new ways to cause havoc ... who's to say the next time this isn't an intentional act?

I see many people wanting to open it up that frame getting the virus as a pretty black and white issue. Either you're fine, or one of the small percentage that die. There's a lot of grey area in between. 3-4 weeks of being sick, very sick from the stories I've read, bad chills, hallucinations, no strength, etc. That's probably 50% or more of the people that are "infected". And then there's the 20% that are living through it, with scarring in there lungs and lasting impacts of decreased physical ability. So, if 60% of get infected.... 30% or use are out of work for 3 weeks cause we can't get out of bed (ignoring the part about being contagious) and probably 10% of us end up with scarred lungs that leave us unable to walk up a flight of stairs without gasping for air. And maybe we've reached the "herd immunity" state that drastically slows the spread. But it's still there, occasionally infecting a person here or there, maybe wiping out an assisted living facility every now and then. With people less likely to get a vaccine when it is available that'd be needed to total wipe it out.

steverox..... i agree......... when china kills their people, we dont care..... but when a america dies.....it can get ugly

@BabyDoc “Right now there is a young 26 year old doctor on a ventilator fighting for her life.”

UPDATE: Thank God she is off the ventilator and doing great. A full recovery is expected.

@steverox I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm nervous a lot of terrorists and hostile foreign governments are paying very close attention to how this spread has basically crippled the world. They are always looking for new ways to cause havoc ... who's to say the next time this isn't an intentional act?

I've thought about this, too. The hope is before that can happen there will be a vaccine or herd immunity or some sort of treatment where it's not fatal.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist - but the way this virus has affected the entire world, for me gives credence to the speculation it may have been a lab-virus that either accidentally, or on purpose (for w/e reason), got out to the population - seems to have too much of a worldwide affect for it to have happened naturally - but IDK.