Massages vs Lap Dances

Actually, I love a good massage...but for a masseuse to replace a stripper she would have to be fun to be around as well as reasonably hot.

Yes.

No to both questions. I don't consider the two to be very much related. All they have in common is physical contact with a young woman. The sexual intent and the social setting are what makes a lap dance for me. Hoping to get a sexual experience from a therapeutic massage would seem as out of place as from a haircut or a teeth cleaning. (No offense to anyone who goes to a hair stylist or dental hygienist hoping to get off.) Normally I'm all in favor of sex in inappropriate settings, but this one is a little too cliched and desperate for me. It would probably result in a lousy massage, too.

massages? UHG! I don't even like them when strippers try to do them. I cannot imagine getting turned on by having some student practicing on me in a sterile setting...

I have to answer "no" to both questions. There's no way a massage - especially in the environment that was described, is going to get me "going" like a lap dance. The chance of the student going beyond normal expectations is so remote that it wouldn't be worth the energy. Any attempt to hint or otherwise encourage the student to go further could end quite badly - at best embarrassing... at worst, legal action. Also, there's a good chance that it could reflect very badly on your daughter, too.

DougS - Yeah, I know any attempt might reflect on my daughter, but it wouldn't cost her her job or anything.

Right now, I'm getting weekly massages at a rate of $43 per hour from two graduated students who have opened up their part time massage business. Nothing outside normal massages has occurred as of yet, and I am not about to ask either, as I don't want to embarrase them nor I.

The saga continues.....

Bones, I have learned to prefer massages too and as a reault I haven't been to a strip club in a long time. But the problem is the same as it is for LDs, they aren't all that much fun unless you really like the girl, and finding a girl you like can be difficult. It's not like in a club where you have a room full of girls to choose from, you generally have to take pot luck. Any suggestions on how to improve the odds?

My ATF is a massage therapist, but she lives 1200 miles away so I don't have the opportunity to get massages from her very often. And I used to have a therapist nearby who I really liked who worked out of her home, but she moved away. Since then I haven't found anyone I like nearby.

There's a massage school not too far from me that I've thought about trying, but my ATF says I wouldn't like it because at her school there is no privacy (you have to keep your undershorts on), the massages are given in front of the class and you have no control over who gives it. Sounds like that's not the case at your school.

Incidently, if you're hoping for a happy ending someday you're likely to be disappointed. These schools really emphasize not doing anything sexual and most of the girls strongly agree. My ATF would get very angry if I ever suggested it. It's a huge no-no for most massage therapists, at least those with licenses. States vary in that regard.

Speaking of massages and happy endings... Has anyone here seen the movie "The Masseuse"? I believe it was Jenna Jameson, playing a massage therapist. A client tries to talk her into giving him more than the usual non-sexual massage. He actually succeeds in convincing her (no surprise - it IS a porn movie), but it is pretty hot.

At one of the Asian "Massage" Parlor places here in NOLa there are at least three providers who give excellent table showers and massages. I have patronized these establishments for non-sexual services on more than one occasion.

Want the best lap dance money can buy? Start out a lap dance by giving your favorite dancer a massage first. I know, it sounds crazy. You will be massaging her for 1 or 2 songs while she is getting paid. Get her relaxed, then ask her for the dance. Continue the massage while she is dancing into the deep muscles in her hip area and she usually will get very turned-on. Hopefully she will return the favor. Once you are known for this technique you will have every dancer in the club begging for your business as well as possible OTC oppertunities.

Giving massages before, between and after lap dances was just the typical routine at my regular club, only you weren't expected to pay for giving them. The great thing about it was the dances were done right at your table, so you could start with cuddling and massage, get a dance, then more massage, than another dance, lather rinse repeat, all without getting up to go off to a VIP room. The dances were just $10, and the girls would usually keep their tops off between dances. Often, the cuddling/massage part was even better than the dances. Most of my faves preferred a light fingertip massage over a vigorous rub - more foreplay than therapy. So many girls there liked it that sometimes I would look around the room and see massages in progress at a practically every table. Management must have finally done something to discourage a popular thing they didn't get their cut from, because you don't see in going on nearly as much anymore.

I've given strippers massages at other clubs, too, but never paid to, nor done it in place of a dance. That does sound crazy.

there is an ex dancer giving massages at my favorite club. Neck, shoulders and back fully clothed (both). She does them in the main room. I don't know how much she charges. The DJ used to announce her services but has stopped. I asked one on my favorites why? Answer: The club does not have a massage license. If you are there and in the mood, ask for Dee Dee.

FONDL - You bring up valid and interesting points. The school I get the massages, thank God, gives the massages in seperate rooms from classrooms, and they're all set up like emergency room cubicles, divided off by those long curtains. And yes, underwear is highly encouraged, which is no problem for me, but mine are 'pretty damn skimpy'! LOL

I just got a two-hour massage ($86 + $14 tip) from my regular practitioner's partner, which happens to be her cousin. This 27 year old girl has long wavy red hair, a nice body (from her appearance), and is 'unhappily' married. My first massage from her was 'so-so', no hanky panky, & no attempts from me to get it going. However, I took her out to lunch afterward to a bar/grill, a few doors down from her office, which she said she hangs out at on weekends. I plan to meet her there tomorrow night for a couple of drinks. Either way, I'm not planning on anything happening, especially a B/F - G/F relationship. She's too damn young.

chipitin - Been there, done that, and continuing to do it. The club dancers really enjoy our customer massages, and yes, sometimes our massaging them does lead to better lap dances.

Anyway, I have an appointment Saturday morning with a student practitioner at the school. She game a great 'erotic' but non-sexual massage for me last Saturday...usual $25!

If anyone is interested in cheap, but good deep muscle type full body (with exceptions of course) massages in your area, just look up schools or institutions that provide massage thearapy courses, as they usually provide (in-call) massages very cheaply. You'll usually be required to rate their massage too, for school purposes.

FONDL, forgive me if you answered this in some past thread: If it really is a non-sexual, therapeutic massage you're getting, why does it have to be with a cute girl you really like, and how come it takes the place of strip clubs for you? I'm not saying those shouldn't be criteria for enjoying a massage, just that seems to indicate a more sexual experience, even if it's not intended as such by the masseuse.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines. If she's hot, I'd want to fuck her. If I didn't want to fuck her, then it wouldn't be the same experience as with a hot girl. Etc.

Chandler, I prefer an attractive and personable young woman to give me a massage probably for the same reasons that I prefer an attractive and personable young woman as my waitress. There's nothing overtly sexual about it, I just enjoy it - maybe you can tell me why.

For me a massage is more enjoyable if I am able to feel some sort of connection between the two of us, and that's far more likely if I'm with someone who I find attractive in one way or another. A massage by its very nature is a pretty intimate experience, and I enjoy intimacy much more if there's some mental or spiritual component. Case in point - my most recent massage was by an older Russian woman who spoke broken English - there was no possibility of any sort of connection between us and I didn't enjoy it much. My last regular therapist (not my ATF) wasn't especially attractive but she was very fit and she was very personable, intelligent and interesting, and I got to know her quite well. Unfortunately she moved away, which is why I'm looking for someone new.

I've never had a sensual or sexual massage. Nor have I ever gotten sexually aroused during a massage, that's not what it's about for me.

FONDL: A lot of services I require might be more enjoyable if performed by a cute girl I really like - teeth cleaning, selling shoes, preparing my taxes. However, competence is my first criteria, along with the congeniality to communicate effectively and make it a tolerable experience. Sorry, I can't tell you why your make-or-break criteria are so different.

I don't get massages, but the times I've needed a chiropractor, I couldn't care less whether it was a man or a woman as long as they treated the pain I was in. It turned out to be a big, strong Dutch guy who got the job done. Friends I've talked to about getting massages have the same attitude and usually prefer a male masseuse. Your attitude sounds closer to that of Bones, who admits to his sexual interest. Or to guys who like Hooters because they think the waitresses are cute or sexy, even though nothing overtly sexual may happen between them.

Come to think of it, teeth cleaning technicians are quite often very physically attractive.

Chandler, a massage can be very different from a visit to a chiropractor and the reason for going may have nothing to do with pain or any other discomfort, for me it's all about relaxation. And as far as competence is concerned, as long as it isn't really bad, few people can tell the difference between a really competent therapist and one who is a little less so. In fact the main reason for a customer returning to a therapist is her personality, not her competence. The trick is to find someone who has both.

There are actually two entirely different aspects to a massage: medical and spiritual. I prefer a massage that doesn't feel like a medical procedure but that feels more like a spiritual experience - more relaxation and less therapeutic. Which is why I'd never go to a chiropractor's office for a message. But that's me, others may have a different preference.

Sounds all very new age, FONDL. That must be the third way I wasn't aware of, neither traditional legitimate massage nor sexual. It still seems like it must include some unacknowledged sexual element, but perhaps I'm projecting. For that matter, your appreciation of strip clubs has always seemed to involve a puzzling relationship with sexuality.

Chandler, it's not a third way, it's the traditional European way. It's called Swedish massage and used to be the most common form, before sports and deep tissue massage became popular.

And you're right, I do feel the same way about LDs. The best ones for me always include both a physical connection and a spiritual (or mental-emotional if you prefer) one. It's a big reson why I prefer having a regular, I enjoy it much more if I can get to know the person on some level. And yes I am somewhat New Age in my beliefs, as I'm sure you know.

But I'm curious about something you said earlier - how do you judge a person's competence in a technical field (like a massage therapist or dental assistant) in which you have had no training? Seems to me most people judge primarily by the person's personality, which is what I do and what you objected to. What other possibilities are there?

Dental assistants go from horrible--you still see gunk after the cleaning (using a small mirror) and in places the teeth aren't smooth, but rather rough. I've had cleanings that were so poor that I've gone to other dental offices for a second cleaning. In one case the dentist, without my complaining, did a full cleaning after the lousy assistant had finished the worst cleaning I'd ever had. The dentist left my teeth spotless and feeling smooth and clean. A mirror exam at home reveal the Dentist hadn't missed anything that I could see.

My current dental assistant is all business. And, the way my teeth look and feel after cleaning I would rate her an A+. Is she a turn on? No, but I've got strip clubs for that. Would I like to be squeezing her breasts as she is cleaning? I don't know about that---having my teeth cleaned isn't my idea of fun. I'd rather she just focus on clean clean clean and not be at all distracted.

FONDL: I'm not sure what you're asking. Obviously, competence is judged by how well the perform their service. Yes, we're influenced by personality, but I'm not going back to an incompetent tax accountant because of his winning personality.

Chandler, I'm asking how do you know how well they perform their services, if you've never had any training in their field. Yes you can probably tell the difference between a great one and a terrible one, but most people don't perform at either extreme. For example, if you knew little about our tax system how would you know if your guy did a lousey job? Personally, in the case of something like a massage therapist, I think the ability to make the massage more enjoyable is part of her competence - a very large part.

I always know whether or not a lap dance is performed well or poorly, and I nearly always know the same about a massage. That's because the DEFINITION of good and bad performance is based on my perception of it.

FONDL: If you're getting a similar thing out of a massage that you get out of a lap dance, that clears up my original question well enough. Like I suspected, it seems to be a matter of semantics. And the traditional massage I referred to is indeed Swedish massage, which I'd never heard described as spiritual or New Age before. Not that I think there's anything objectionable about that, it's just a different style from what I've been aware of.

In answer to your broader question, I rate how well a service is performed by the results. I don't usually concern myself with all the details of how the results were achieved. That's often why I get somebody else to do it. But I don't even know why I'm explaining this - I thought it was as common as putting on your socks before your shoes.

I've thought about getting a nonsexual massage but the only ones I've had have been in strip clubs a few times when some girl was going around giving them for like 5 bucks. I've been grabbed by Korean girls standing outside of massage parlors but they only wanted to massage one part of me. I remember seeing a very nice looking massage worker or therapist when I went to pick up my mother one day. I found out too late that even though I only saw her for a minute when she walked out with my mother, that she was asking about me saying she was looking for a new boyfriend. If I had known that, I would have gone out of my way to go back there. Oh well. It did make me think getting a massage might be fun or relaxing. It would not replace going to strip clubs since I enjoy watching and interacting with a number of dancers. I suppose if a very pretty massage therapist came home with me she might be able to persuade me for a while at least.

I remember one dancer always wanted me to rub her back. A couple of times she even had me go back to the lap dance room with her to massage her back because she wanted to tank off her top. Her bra strap or back was in the way. Apparently she needed massaging a little closer to her breasts too since she had me move my hands closer. The same girl liked to sit on my lap to warm up when she was cold. If every dancer was like her, I wouldn't have hardly any time to get any dances. Having her sit on my lap or in between my legs was kind of enjoyable. I didn't offer to rub her back one time. She kept getting me to just do it. You might think I studied massage therapy as often as I got requested to do it. I remember several years ago, one dancer asked me to massage her feet. I wasn't really into that but she talked me into it. I like getting the massage much better.

I've had about five "types" of rub-downs.

1. Physiotherapy at a hospital. The providers (heh, is that the word?) were all quite physically attractive and I did try to flirt and pick them up but I guess I didn't get anywhere because they were all business. We did half-hour with ultrasound and joint manipulation. Sex did not ensue. :(

2. Athletic massage. I've had everyone from hairy beefy Gunther the german spritz und therma-bad man, to a bubbly bouncy naked girl I knew I was going to fuck because she gave "massage plus extras" for $150 an hour. Sex did ensue with the bubbly bouncy naked girl, and did not with Gunther, thank goodness! :) There are about six varieties of this category -- Rolfing, Swedish, Shiatsu (true non-sexual), Deep Tissue, etc. -- and each has its supposed function in revitalizing or improving performance or something.

3. Massage from a civilian girlfriend or female pal. Usually the girls I have "dated" in civilian life (you know, taken to go fly kites in the park, that sort of shit) have at some point or other traded back-rubs with me. On long trips with groups (particularly as an undergrad) we traded back-rubs with one another, too, sometimes as flirtatious prelude to attempting sexual/romantic hook-up. These can be of dreadful or wonderful quality, and can lead to sex or not, depending entirely on the girl and the situation.

4. Nice deep massage as part of pre-sexual pampering. Generally I receive this at an "AMP" (Asian Massage Parlor) in concert with a table-shower. The girl takes you to a tile room with a vinyl couch and washes you (some teasing touches), then takes you to a crib room and massages you. Depending on the girl, this can be wonderful or annoying. The massage slowly transmogrifies into more touching, and eventually after some preliminaries (and the application of condom) the act takes place.

5. Massage as relief. This too can happen at an AMP. You pay less (either inadvertently or deliberately) and you receive body rub-down (same possibilities of enjoyment or annoyance) and then willie gets his own rub-down too. The Asian (Japanese?) term "shiatsu" means "stress relief," I have heard. I often received this from non-Asian providers at massage spas in the near-north of Toronto when I lived there, it was the "going norm" for that sort of place in the 1990s.

There is also:

1. The non-massage. Received when you attend a place which advertises itself as a "massage parlor" (or "lingerie modeling studio") but no massage is offered. Rather, you get right down to it.

and

1. Tantric. This is (technically) a vaguely Hindu sexual practice which involves massaging parts of the body to "release energies." In the West we have bastardized the term to mean something like, "sexual provision by means of manual release while weird music is playing and incense is burning and the provider is a total flake who talks about energy flow and pressure points." Then she gets you off. :P

I have found that, aside from categories 1 and 2 above (physiotherapy and legitimate massage) the chances of getting a good and effective rub-down of muscles and joints is about 50/50, depending on the person giving the massage. Some people just don't get the concept. I am told that I give a very good massage, though sometimes too harsh (usually by weak fat women, so there's no love lost), and that I am an expert at feet. Evidently playing soccer all those years did something for me. I have family members who simply cause immediate pain by grasping muscles in exactly the least preferred manner and "charlie horse" pinching them to the point that a week of nerve-damaged immobility instantly ensues. Do not allow them to give massages!

Chandler, unless you specifically get a sports massage, what you get in the US is almost always called Swedish massage. But there's a lot of variation within that category, different therapists approach it differently and different schools teach it differently. As I said before, I prefer someone who approaches it more as a spiritual experience than as a medical procedure, even though there are almost always elements of both involved. And it's partly the appearance and personality of the therapist that determines that. Go to several different places and try several different therapists and I think you'll understand what I mean. There's an awful lot of variation between therapists.

Book Guy, I agree with you that one's perception is what determines whether you think the performance is good or bad. And the personality and appearance of the provider has a lot to do with your perception. You're almost always going to think more highly of someone if they have a friendly professional manner, take pride in their appearance and seem to care about you. That's true whether you're getting a massage or a LD.

There's really very few things better than a relatively cheap Swedish massage that then leads to a long, langourous blowjob, maybe a make-out session, and deliberate (rather than frenzied or passionate) sex. The "out of your mind with desire" part of it slides away as you relax during the massage, and you just get to find new sensations in all your nerve endings.

Provided the lady is attractive to you, and talented at the necessary skills of massage, blowjob, sex, of course.

Bones, we seem to have lost you on this discussion. I'm curious to know how things are going at the massage school and whether you have made any long-term "friends" as a result. Are the girls you meet there allowed to give you contact information so you can get together outside the school? And have you had any outside encounters, legitimate or otherwise? Incidently, what state are you talking about and do they license therapists and studios there? Only about half the states do and it can make a big difference.

How about massages vs. spankings? I'm talking about giving, not receiving. Massage may be very sensuous and relaxing, but it does nothing to teach a bad girl how to behave. There's really very few things better than turning her ass cheeks red hot with a series of loud smacks as a lead-in to a good, hard fuck.