I would say that there is no reason to consider kissing to be more intimate than fucking.
But in the p4p arena you will find women offering fucking without kissing.
I say that this is because they have learned how to fuck via dissociation. It should not even be considered real fucking.
If you like the girl and want to be with her, this dissociation is no good. Get that front room makeout session going. Most women have zero emotional resistance after that.
Buying Dances and VIP Room Time w/o that Front Room Makeout Session is a Chump's Game!
SJG
Cause people vary? Not all variances are easy to understand, but there you are.
I'm a non extras guy, and I don't kiss strippers, but if I broke my limits, I'd sure rather confess to kissing.
I've wondered in the past why I perceive making out as more pleasurable, and I have two theories.
One is simple, my sense of touch is just very strong in my mouth. When I get blowjobs, or handjobs, I don't know, its like I don't really sense that much going on down there. Yeah there's an orgasm and it is a good bit stronger than the orgasm I get from masturbating, but other than that, there's not a whole lot else that separates the pleasure of intercourse from the pleasure of say, cuddling with a girl to me. When a girl puts her tongue inside my mouth though, it feels almost shockingly good. My entire body gets flooded with euphoria that can be surprisingly intense for hours afterward. Its a different kind of pleasure from an orgasm though, it has this blissful feel to it. Sex without kissing does not have the same effect. It feels similar to masturbating, better, but similar. I actually think for some reason I have more nerve endings in my mouth than in my dick or they are stronger for some reason. One thing I have supporting this theory is that I hate the texture of almost every kind of food out there. I can only handle certain kinds. I used to think it was about "taste" but I can drink alcohol that tastes really bad and mostly handle it. Bad textures in food, however, feel like torture and can bring me to the edge of vomiting if I attempt to swallow it.
The other is more complex. Making out is a bit more of an entrance into your personal space than sex can be. Like you are right in the girl's face and connecting with her face. So there might be more passing of chemicals occurring, particularly oxytocin which if you're very sensitive to can be perceived as very pleasurable. Some forms of sex, like doggystyle, are even deliberately setup to involve a bit of distance between you so that the only parts that really connect are your genitals whereas making out connects nearly every inch of your body to the other person including your genitals which are being rubbed in the process.
Well you can fuck without skin contact. So maybe if your talking about fucking with a condom on versus kissing with a dental dam, I would say yeah fucking is more intimate. But I think in general it's an intimate affection thing to kiss, caress her face etc. Rather than just a quick fuck to get your rocks off
Outside of the P4P realm, if they didn't want to kiss you, they wouldn't want to fuck you either.
In AMPs, sometimes kissing does not ensue until fucking is well underway. Then likely the girl will just be ramming her tongue into your mouth, as she wants you to cum. Its her body that wants you to cum. She is just letting go, letting her body drive it, loosing rationality about it.
This tells you how women are wired up.
But it is still better if you can get a nice preliminary makeout sessions going with her, getting to know her.
The strength of a strip club is, being a hang out place, you can interact with the girls in an unstructured and non-committal manner. So select the girl you want, the one you want to be waking up in the mornings with, approach her yourself, demonstrate good will via generosity, deploy some charm, and get that front room makeout session going.
Plan to be waking up with her the next morning, and frequently from then on.
SJG
New Era for the ERA? 35 Years Later, Will Equal Rights Amendment Finally be Ratified?
[view link][view link]
People say that kissing started, with things like chewing up food to give to babies, stuff like that. Its just the way hairless bonobos are.
Apes used to live in trees, but then they found that they could use fire to keep the big cats away, and to keep warm. So they took to living in caves and lost their hair. They learned to fuck f2f instead of like dogs. They learned to walk upright, and so they now had two hands free so that they could carry things like immature and big headed infants.
Hairless apes are just wired up for f2f intimacies. And then as we now wear clothes, kissing is often the best way to start.
SJG
"But I think in general it's an intimate affection thing to kiss, caress her face etc. Rather than just a quick fuck to get your rocks off."
Yeah that's also true, girls just look very cute when they're being kissed or are kissing you and immediately afterward.
San Jose Guy.....So would you say that if girl chooses to make out with you at an AMP but not with other customers does that mean that she actually likes you?
Usually it does mean that she actually likes me. DFKing is not standard at AMPs. Many girls refuse it. That the girl actually likes me is very obvious. Usually they want us to start seeing each other outside.
Their jobs are mostly HJ. Nice GFE FS they love. But that they DFK almost always does mean that they like me. Same for strip clubs.
SJG
CC99 So if a girl allows DFK at an AMP but doesnt do it with others does she mean that she actually likes you?.....Like you’re a new customer and she makes out with you but doesn’t do that with a long time customer who is a big spender and tips more then you.
^^^^^ Often when girls in AMPs and Strip Clubs DFK it is with someone new. It is an act of good will. They are hoping for an ongoing relationship, making it all like a first date, Girl Friend Audition.
I always treat all women totally civilian, in all situations. So its like we just met, at say a party.
SJG
Well, money is what enables the girl to be there, it's how she pays her bills. But I never treat her as someone who is bought by money.
Most of the girls who want to be doing regular home sessions are those blessed with both brains and beauty.
But it is only a few of them who directly encourage this.
Generally if treated right, women don't seem to have any reluctance to kiss.
Usually if things start off right, the girl is ready for an ongoing outside relationship starting immediately.
Now sure, money is a part of her life. But usually wives get money, GF's of rich guys get money.
Really, being able to give her money helps. It shows care and concern.
GF and BF are really adolescent terms, usually pertaining to people who live with and are supported by their parents.
I look at the money as Mistress Maintenance. In most countries other than the US, well off guys keep mistresses.
SJG
"I must be a slow reader because I look at these novels written by DC and SJG and very quickly decide I don’t have time for that"
More like attention deficit disorder. How is two paragraphs a novel? I've written seven paragraph posts before. You wanna see a forum where "novel" size posts are routine you should see this other forum I post on. I could easily find examples of people writing ten paragraph long posts.
When I was in college, my friends used to think this and I thought they were crazy. Now, I kind of get it.
It somewhat goes along with the last part of what CC99 said, but instead of distance I think the line is that of physical versus other stimulation. People can - and of course, often do - have sex for the physical reward. As long as she makes the mountain splash, things are usually good. Sex can obviously be a more intimate experience, but it doesn't have to be.
Kissing is much less likely to offer the same stimulation, although it is possible. Other things have to draw people to kiss each other (usually), and those things tend to be related to attraction and/or feeling.
Its not obnoxious. Short replies are the obnoxious ones. Its incredibly irritating when you put forth the effort to think about somebody's post and give them a good analytical reply and they instead reply with only one or two sentences.
@IHearVoices
I don't know because I can definitely enjoy making out with somebody that I'm only physically attracted to. One of the best makeout sessions I ever had was with a girl I didn't really know at all. I mean, in general, I want to have some feelings of affection for anybody that I enjoy sexual intimacy with but the bar for enjoying making out with a girl isn't any higher than having sex with one. On a basis of risk assessment though, I worry about what a girl could do after having sex with me that I don't worry about when its just making out.
@flagooner, no I'm serious about fucking without skin contact, at least not very intimate. Leave your pants, or at least boxers on, put a wrapper on your baby leg and you're good. That's one of the things I like about itc. I haven't done otc right yet. The one I did do it with I COMPLETELY fucked up
I guess I'm just old fashioned in that I don't find having sex with a lady I have no feelings much more enjoyable than masturbating. To me that is much more of an intimate act than kissing.
That, and you won't get arrested for kissing your partner in front of Cinderella's castle in Disney World.
@CC
>Its not obnoxious. Short replies are the obnoxious ones.<
Why do you make sweeping generalizations all of the time? I don’t think brevity is obnoxious.
During sex it's possible to disengage and think about (for example) how the Nuggets are doing in the NBA playoffs. Same is not true for kissing, where it's impossible to tune out and ignore your partner. Even DATY is far less intimate than kissing for the same reason.
About 35 years ago I often went to Raleigh, NC on business trips. There was one club that I used to go that was topless, no table dances, no VIP, just dances on stage. If you tipped them a buck, the girl would give you a kiss. Some were just pecks, but a few would lock lips with you and exchange some tongue. There was one girl named Barbara that gave the best kisses. Can’t believe I remember her name after all these years. I guess I could have been worried about catching something but at the time I just enjoyed it.
Ha ! That made me remember, kissing booth at the County Fair, rural Mn. I was 11 ? & I would've been tempted but I'd never had a spare $ yet. Day or 2 later, our 4H club was picking up litter at fair grounds and I found 2$
Wondered if that older (high school?) girl would have kissed me, wondered if I would have dared.
This is going to age me a bit...
So, at junior high school parties when they play spin the bottle, does the bottle choose fuck partners now instead of kissing partners?
I don't think saying its more "intimate" indicates that it's harder to get or you consider to be the last step. It's more that I feel like your closer, physically to a girl while you're making out with her. And like RandomMember said in a way it engages you more mentally. You can have sex on autopilot but you generally don't makeout on autopilot.
I've had sex where I was less engaged than other times, but never on autopilot.
One would have to be working for Delta or something.....
Though I understand your opinion, kissing, when more than a peck of affection, is pretty engaging.
Show clubs and stuff, they limit the number of dancers per shift, and impose a min looks standard. They want the women to be able to make good money while staying within the rules.
But what if there really are no rules, and what if you just hire all those who want to work there? They are for the customer. See if the customer likes them.
Well this is how you make a dive. It is no longer a big privilege to work there. Management no longer has much of a whip to crack. If it expects the women to keep on showing up, then it has to cut them some slack and basically let them do things their way.
Some will not go for this, but some will be leading with DFKing. Some do thank you rounds for anyone who tipped them while on stage, they get a thank you DFK. And probably more front room DFKing can be had, and they get the back room invitation.
Sure, some girls, on stripper web, are livid over this kind of thing. But, that they are livid tells us that they are seeing it. It is happening.
Some girls are very happy to do this, along with as much GFE-FS as they can get.
People have written about this at the Skin Cabaret in Scottdale. Though it may be mostly the doings of just one girl.
SJG
Kissing is a lot more intimate....When you kiss someone, your lips and tongues touch, you feel each other's breath, taste each other, you're so close you can see every imperfection in their skin, your eyes meet. The way girls get hot, sweaty and blush when you kiss them. The way they breathe heavier and look at you with parted lips, the way their voice gets sweeter and more affectionate. The way you hold each other and don't want it to end. You melt with each other.
When you fuck, you can just bend her over and do your thing, or don't even have to make eye contact in many positions. Likewise she can just close her eyes. Same if you just grab her head and have her suck you or tell her to get on her knees...
But a blowjob can also be very intimate if there are feelings involved.
If you want the most intimate act that makes both of you vulnerable and builds a bond, eat each other's asses....
Virgins will kiss endlessly, and often do blow jobs too.
Its FS which is the real issue. So if she will fuck you, of course she will kiss you.
This only changes in strained varieties of P4P. I suggest avoiding these sorts of P4P. Get that preliminary makeout session.
SJG
I always thought of it as you got more intimate as you progress through the bases all the way up to the home run for the ultimate expression of intimacy.
I dont do random dancers. When I go to a club I try several girls out front room and back room. They need to be very sensual front room before we go back room. That includes DFK in a dimly lit corner. Stroking my dick under the table while DFKing. Then after I've found what I want front room we go back room. We DFK back room then move down to sucking her tits and playing with her pussy. Then she pulls out my dick and sucks me BBBJCIM. We do the same thing OTC only with more foreplay. If the girl isnt in to it I move on until I find one that is. Then I only see her at the club front room and back room or we do the same OTC with lots of foreplay. I am really in to oral and dont care much for vaginal sex.
Select the girl you want to be waking up in the mornings with, them make it happen with her. Unless she is seriously attached, probably it will all go off extremely well.
SJG
In clubs where girls see multiples in one day its not smart to kiss and/or allow guys to touch them below the belt. Its moreso a matter of hygiene. Not every guy washes their hands or stays home when they have a cold. Each girl learns this the lesson the hard way.
I say that for you guys as well. If a girl says she has a cold or you see her cough its always a smart idea to pass on a dance for the night if you know she likes to kiss.
As someone who has served at the kissing booth at the Renaissance Pleasure Faire, I can attest that DFKing is safe.
But you who don't believe me, go ahead and live in your sterilized Howard Hughes like world.
SJG
70 comments