Making the effort to rate clubs fairly

Well when I’m on the road I’m not gonna stay at a club for hours or visit multiple times if I had a bad experience, just to make sure that the club sucks. But I’m not gonna kill it with a 2 or something. I understand places have off nights. I think the regulars will have such a better feel than the road warriors obviously anyway. I don’t really even look too much into the ratings anyway unless it’s absolutely obscene.

The review system is imperfect and relies on a decent number of samples to even out bias. It's also pretty well established around here that most guys rate their clubs against local competition. The best club in town might get 7s and 8s even if it would be terrible in other markets.

I mean there are clearly guys who put very little effort into reviews to get the free month of VIP

Muddy, how can anyone know how good a bad a club is going to be in 15 minutes? What is there are 3 girls in the DR getting ready to come out? What if the hot girl just staring at her phone finishes with whatever domestic problem she might be having and comes over? I get it if you know the club well already, but we're talking about a first time visit where he trashed the club's ratings after one coke and 15 minutes ITC.

^Sorry for the typos, but you get the point. It just so happens that i know this club and they sell cheap 15 minute private VIPs where anything goes and very reasonably priced booze. He might have known that too if he had given the club more than 15 minutes and bought more than a single $4 coke. Instead he got pissy because he didn't like the piggy first wave, or the initial quiet nature of the place, and decided to take off and trash the place.

I’m with you Rick don’t be just trashing a club ratings if you were in and out. But if he was in and out that’s his right and I would still want to hear about it. I do it a lot. I don’t have the time or money to spend hours and drop hundreds to get the “feel” of the club. If I don’t like it I get the fuck yo and leave. Not “well I’m already here” That’s just the point I’m trying to make.

*up not yo

How can anyone reliably rate a club that he has never visited before based upon a pop-in? Now I might even get someone saying that it was so bad that they couldn't take it for long, but to then go and give them 3s down the line is irresponsible at best and malicious at worst.

We need to do better than that - especially guys with over 100 reviews under their belts who can move a club's overall ratings dials.

Also, rarely is a club so God awful that one cannot put an hour in to figure things out. If he doesn't want to spend much money, then he simply nurses his drinks and says no to dances.

When I'm using this site for intel on a club visit, I'm usually not too concerned about the overall rating (unless it's extremely low). I usually base my decision on the tone of the last 3 - 5 reviews (hopefully written within 6 months of my visit). In my case, travel to a completely new club is generally pre-planned and I have the time to browse the reviews. I truly appreciate that there are many that don't have the time to browse and the number means more in that circumstance. I believe that the "rating score" number will always be flawed and there are too many factors to fix.

A reviewer can only go by his.personal experience during the visit - if the review is accurate baaed on his visit, then it's his right and.prerogative.

If.the club happens to be much better than what he saw, then it.should be getting more reviews to balance things out - "w/e blame there might be" IMO lies more with others not submitting enough "accurate/better" reviews or the club perhaps not being good-enough to garner more reviews.

Asking reviewers to temper their reviews as to how it will affect the club is not warranted nor productive IMO.

I want to be crystal clear that I normally would never challenge someone else's review. He has earned the right to trash a club as much as anybody and if it sucked during his visit, then it sucked.

But in thsi instance it was a bullshit rating based upon almost nothing. ^He wasn't there long enough to see anything. He doesn't even know how much a dance or VIP costs, yet he felt informed enough to give the club a 3 in Value. And there was nothing remotely accurate about his 3 for the facility - hell hole dumps get that kind of rating and the club in question is not one of those. He trashed the club all around solely out of petulance over the fact that things didn't instantly pick up the second he walked in the door. That's fine for a guy with 5 reviews who won't move the dial on anything, but not so much for a guy who has reviewed 150 clubs and whose rating will move the needle.

Guys who can move the dial on ratings need to be more thoughtful than that. If he didn't have enough to write a review based upon a fair shake, then he should have held off. He was doing club drive by reviews so that he could get max review bang for his buck - he was inside 3 different clubs within the same hour. Shame on him.

Well, Rick, you are obviously talking about me and a couple of my recent Pasco County club reviews. So why didn’ t you act like a man instead of a pussy and name me in your original post? I guess that question answered itself.

As I told you when I responded to some of you review comments, I report what I see. I’m sorry if my reviews got your panties in wad. Actually, not really. I don’t care if they got your panties in a wad. Actually, actually, after reading all of your original post and follow ups, I’m glad I got your panties in a wad.

So, you say you are “never going to argue with another reviewer about a rating because I wasn't there,” and then proceed to argue and rant that my reviews are all wrong, and could only be the “product of petulance because [I] felt mistreated or any combination of laziness, stinginess or downright stupidity.” As I stated when I responded to your review comments, I report what I see.

I’m not going to change my reviews because you might disagree with them. And no, I’m not going to hang around longer than a half-hour when the only girls in sight are a few of skanks I woudn’t fuck with your dick (even if you would) and the visit is clearly going nowhere. You might sit there for a couple of hours rubbing your dick and hoping a 5 comes out of the dressing room, but I’m not going to.

So, you say “we all know” why I gave low ratings to these clubs, with the suggestion that it was because I was somehow offended or pissed off at the clubs or the girls in my short visit. Really? You think so? I have reviewed over 150 clubs since I’ve been active on TUSCL, and that’s probably not even 25% of the number I’ve been in over the years before I joined this site. You think I get pissed off at clubs? Get real.

I checked out Pasco County at your suggestion, which I appreciated because overall it’s a great place, and I never would have thought to go there myself. But, God, you are one arrogant fucking prick.

Who are you talking about? What club? Just say it.

Nm just saw drevil post.

I do think the time and day of the visit(slow shift vs peak shift) should be taken into consideration when rating the dancers. We all know the A team isnt there on the slow shifts. Me personally when i go to a strip club during non-peak shifts i temper my expectations for the talent. But thats just me. If someone else is writing the review who am i to say they are wrong. I think in the end these things balance themselves out. The text of the review is more important anyway. The ratings are inconsequential.

Like pornography, I trust that rick recognizes a "drive by" review when he sees one. Yet on the flip side, how many dog turds does one have to eat to know that they don't like the taste of dog shit. Often, I can tell within 15 minutes how well I'm going to like the club (or not). If I'm vacationing in an area, and encounter a lackluster day shift, I might try (and report on) a subsequent night shift to balance the overall review. If not, I'll give it a mediocre grade like I did with a fairly well appointed Dallas club over 10 years ago, taking extra care to mention that it was a slow day shift that I was reviewing.

Dr, then maybe our philosophies just differ. You think it's ok to trash a club's ratings after a lazy ass 15 minute non visit and I don't. And if those ratings weren't from petulance, I cannot imagine what they WERE from, because it certainly wasn't from any fulsome experience in the club.

A 3 for value in a club where your entire pricing intel was a $4 coke? Good job there tiger. A 3 for facilities in a club that is fairly comfortable all things considered and in which you didn't even sniff a backroom? Interesting. If not petulance, maybe you were just lazy? Was 3 your lucky number that day? ;)

I was happy to share the information, but if I knew that you were going to piss all over the ratings of two clubs based upon those non-visit visits, I might have held it back. Guys like you (and me) need to be better than that dude when our ratings have such an impact upon the overall ratings for a club. This site is only as good as the information we feed into it.

Dr., I'm guessing you aren't an investigative reporter in your day job. ;)

Are you going to be in Miami on the 24th? I’d like to tell you to fuck off in person, you fucking prick.

Oh shit, are you going to be in Tootise's doctor?

Boys, you'd better call ahead. Read doctor's more recent review for Lollipops in Hudson FL to know what I mean. Doctor has an itchy trigger finger, so they'd better be ready the very minute he walks in or else. ;)

You talk big behind a keyboard. Come meet me in person you prick.

I was never for all this "massaging" of TUSCL bc of "the troll effect" - e.g. all this weighting of reviews and weighting of anything else is like most.government programs that are full of good intentions and end up full of bad unintended consequences and bureaucratic overhead - TUSCL should just adhere to the K,I.S.S. principle.

How does the formula work , so that a reviewer with more reviews can impact the ratings more? Is the formula published somewhere?

@doctor: You know where I am. If I don't make it to Miami you should feel free to look me up anytime you want shit stain.

Aham: yes, guys with more reviews of more clubs move the rating needle more. This is as it should be as, with the notable exception of asswipes like doctor, most apply a lot of club experience when they rate a place.

@rickdugan - As I am someone else who you have criticized (no hard feelings btw) in the past over a review here is my thought. First off I totally see where you are coming from, we don't want anyone trashing or gaming the review system. However I know in my case when you criticized one of my reviews I simply found a club that happens to tick all of the boxes for what I specifically look for. So I rated it highly on the scale of how I judge clubs for myself. For someone who is looking for a different club experience I can see how they might find some of my scores inflated or inversely harsh.

As if I would know, or care, where rickdugan is, but he knows where I'll be on Jan. 24. Of course, I'm sure I won't see him.

Before I started participating on this board, I lurked for a lengthy period. One of the reasons I didn't participate for quite a while was all of the bullshit trolling and harrassment that went on, including all of the posts/comments mocking "RickyBoy" that I didn't really understand at the time. Well, I understand now.

So much for the VIP Room being troll free. It was nice while it lasted.

Funny doctor. You act like a Grade A douchebag with what you did to that club, then act like the aggrieved party being trolled. I guess you're one of those victim mentality types. Anyway, next time you look up your girl Eve Hartley just let me know. After I'm done fucking you up in the parking lot of the Dollhouse, maybe I'll take her out for a spin. After I'm done with her, she can visit you in the hospital if she feels like it.

Condescending motherfucker, that's our Ricki Boi, wouldn't have it any other way would you ?

I hadn't planned on going to the Miami smackdown, I mean meet-up, but now that Hacksaw Dugan vs Dr Death has been added to the card...

Hey weren't we promised a diva beatdown as well?

^ complete with collapsible chairs, a tag team and the main event will be ?????

Lol at justintolook and twentyfive. Maybe just have the tagteam as the main event. Who's got spice and who's got Nina?

I was just wondering when we'd have our first blowup in the VIP.

I wish I could make the Jan 24th event. Let us know how it goes.

I want to be crystal clear that I normally would never challenge someone else's criticism of a review. He has earned the right to trash a review as much as anybody and if he thinks the review sucked, then the review sucks for him. But now I'm going to go ahead and criticize the criticism.

I've read what I believe to be the "offending" review, and I frankly don't see a problem with it. Nowhere do I see expressed the pique that rick apparently does. It describes the reviewer's experience, and the value he felt he received. Noting that dancers sat on their asses with a potentially paying customer in the house, or the less than appealing appearance of of others, isn't "petulance", it's valid criticism.

So what if there might have been a bevy of buxom beauties biding in back? There also might not have been, and at some point, it becomes fish or cut bait time. Maybe 15 minutes isn't long enough for some, but it's obviously long enough for some others, and it's been more than long enough for me on occasion.

So what if it "moves the needle" on the ratings? A club's rating is the sum of it's individual reviewers' ratings, and if a club is the bomb on Saturday night, but sucks on Friday afternoon, and if the separate ratings make the club look mediocre, then it's a fucking mediocre club. The review is clearly labeled as to when the visit occurred, and frankly, it's incumbent on readers to examine that data when perusing the reviews. If you're basing a visit to a club on the overall rating, without at least sampling the reviews or going down the list to see what comprises that overall rating, you're doing it wrong.

And yes, I do assert that you're doing it wrong if that's how you decide on a club. Anybody with half a brain realizes that club reviews are subjective, and vary over time of day, day of week, time of year, and reviewer. Anyone who doesn't take that into account when looking at a club is, in fact, doing it wrong.

Got it gmd. Think maybe he felt the coke was only worth $2, so he felt super ripped off enough to justify a 3 value rating? Perhaps the few fugglies sitting out there during his very brief drive by made the furniture look so worn, uncomfortable and dirty that it justified giving them a 3 for the facilities? Alrighty then gmd. ;)

Look, if he had banged them solely on the Dancer front then I'd not have said a peep, even though his visit was too short to know if there were any other dancers in the building.. But 3s down the line was downright punitive and I'm not buying for a second that he wasn't a bit miffed by their perceived treatment of him during his quick in-and-out pop-in. In 9 years I have never called anyone out for a review before,because I don't believe in doing that, but this was just irresponsibly bad.

I agree that using ratings alone is silly, but we also know that human nature makes some people lazy, stupid or both. The many shills on this site who work endlessly to prop up their respective clubs' ratings know this well, which is why they bother in the first place.

And we'll have to disagree on the merits of rating a club based upon a 15 minute pop-in, especially when you intend to pound the place. We need to do better than that or else the ratings will mean even less than they already do. People earn their livings from these clubs and shouldn't have that affected, even a little, by guys who shit on the clubs solely out of spite and petulance.

^ So instead of being a condescending dick, why not post a comment on his review saying something like I don’t doubt that this wasn’t a good visit but I’ve been to club X and that’s not how it is when I go, but no you just decided to be a dick and the first guy to start a shitfest here on the new feature VIP, but dude we get it that’s just how you roll.

^Actually 25 I was starting a general conversation on the topic of fairness. He is the one who chose to reveal that I was referring to one of his reviews.

@RickDugan I saw his review last week and when I saw your post I knew exactly which review you were referring to, and I recognized your plausible deniability immediately, you are fairly intelligent, don’t play dumb and insult my intelligence.

LOL!

OK, just to make the record clear, because I’m a grown man and not a thug, and unlike Dugan, who threatened to “fuck me up” in the parking lot the next time I visit The Dollhouse, JAX, I haven’t threatened anyone, nor would I ever. I only hope Dugan is in Miami on Jan. 24 so I can tell him to his face what a fucking prick he is, and see what kind of person threatens to “fuck up” another person because he doesn’t like a review posted to an anonymous strip club web site.

Sure doctor, you much prefer the passive aggressive approach of implying that someone isn't man enough to face you and say it in person, but then retreat to the protective warmth of civility when someone calls you out on it. ;)

You know doctor, you may actually be a decent guy in person, but you really came across as an petty ankle biting little cunt in that review and then in this thread.

I didn't think I was implying anything. I thought I was pretty explicit in saying I don't think you’re man enough to say what you have said to my face. That doesn't suggest I'm looking for a physical confrontation. It just means I think you are one of those guys who acts like a tough guy behind the anonymity of the internet, but is probably really a pussy. I’m pretty sure you are a petty ankle biting little cunt in real life, and you come across as a condescending prick on this site.

LOL!

More passive aggressive nonsense doctor? Your little tuscl knitting circle buddy georgmicrobrain no doubt finds it funny, but anyone else reading it sees it for what it is. When a man challenges another man to say it in person, the threat of physical confrontation is implicit. You don't want to own that now because you're a pussy who realized her got emotional and went too far, but there it is. Truth be told you went that route because you were exposed for the little ankle biting cunt that you are and you had no defense, so you started that nonsense. Now a man with gravitas might have admitted his error long before getting to that point, but a bitch like you is incapable of that level of self awareness or personal responsibility.

Are you guys like this in real life?

LOL!

Can’t even come up with an original ad hominem.

LOL!

@Boring: Nah, this is just entertainment and I'm usually as laid back as they come re: strip clubs. I just got a bit more irked about this one as I'm the guy who recommended Pasco County to our petulant crusader in the first place. The thanks I got for it was him carelessly and thoughtlessly trashing the ratings of a decent but small mom and pop club there based upon a sour taste in his mouth over a 15 minute visit. I laid it all out above, so i won't repeat it. Seems that he was more interested in getting credit for another club reviewed than actually getting his intel right or giving the club a fair shake.

But with that said, much like doctor when he foolishly implied (multiple times) that I was a keyboard tough guy who wouldn't be willing to say this to him in person, I also went too far in this thread. So apologies for those who bothered to wade through all of this crap.

gmd posted: "Can’t even come up with an original ad hominem."

LOL, fair enough. Alcohol may have played a role. ;)

This has got to be one of the stupidest arguments I have seen in a long time. You are arguing over subjective interpretations/opinions, not facts. I have been in many clubs that have sucked at certain times of the week, only to have them excel at others. The review is a snapshot of that point in time based upon the reviewers observations/expectations.

In the grand scheme of things, the 3 ratings across the board by my calculations probably affected the total cumulative rating by less than .20.

This is hardly enough impact on the rating to get anyone's panties in a bunch

No, AZ. To Rick’s point, reviews by reviewers who have lots of reviews, and/or who have reviewed lots of clubs, affect the club’s rating, i.e. “move the needle”, more than one by a reviewer with no prior reviews or who has only reviewed a few clubs.

I simply disagree the review in question is inappropriate.

I seem to have a little free time today, so here goes.

reviews ave

15 6.00

51 7.66

33 7.00

5 6.30

36 7.00

114 3.67

55 5.30

14 6.30

14 4.67

36 8.30 total 373 62.2 "= 6.22 avg rating unweighted

The above table is from the 10 prior reviews to the review in question, listing # of reviews by reviewer and their average rating. Average reviews per reviewer is 37.3. Reviews by Dr Evil=84. Again, this is a stupid argument, and the impact by Dr Evil is minimal.

What I meant to state is that Dr Evil is one of 84 reviews. His unweighted impact is around 1.2%. It would take significant weighting to make any impact on the total to move by more than .20 considering past reviewer totals.

No, the OP is bitching because someone trashed a club's ratings based upon a 15 minute non-visit where he saw little and did nothing. Simply put, he's still too ignorant to have a valid opinion, subjective or not. I haven't been to the club in years and for all I know it has gone to shit filled with ROBs. But doctor doesn't know that any more than I do because he wasn't there long enough to figure anything out. He based his entire review on a $4 coke (with no cover) and a few minutes seeing the C team.

It was lazy and irresponsible, especially for a guy with his review count. And if 5 other screen names with high review counts come on saying that this is ok, then they are all wrong too. Here's a hint: if you plan to leave your car running when you go into the club, then don't bother writing a review. No, doctor isn't the only mutt to pull this stunt, but it doesn't make it right.

“And if 5 other screen names with high review counts come on saying that this is ok, then they are all wrong too.”

What a self-absorbed condescending prick.

I believe the bigger clubs with lots of dancers give the PLs with less experience the ability to have a better visit overall, I think also that most of us, given the amount of experience we have do just fine in any decent club. As a result I do believe most of us regular reviewers are pretty objective overall

I really liked AZ420’s reply. I thought his position on whether DocE’s review was fair or unfair was a moot point was pretty astute.

I see a fair number of reviews that are some version of "Walked in. Didn't see anything I liked. Walked out again ." Without any idea of what the customer was looking for or what it is that he didn't like, it's a completely useless "review".

Some strip club visits don't warrant a review, but are best posted as a comment to the club. But I know some people want their VIP status for as little work as possible. Anyway, I reject those reviews.