First off. Is it true? If it is think of someway to explain what you did, and get thru it as quick as you can. The longer it drags on the longer it impacts your career.
If it’s not true, defend yourself aggressively. HR usually isn’t looking for the truth, they are usually looking for the solution that will expose them to least liability. That usually means getting rid of you.
In a way yes. It was not to HR, it was just to the local area managers.
Our company had lots of young hotties and they dressed sexy.
So one day I was confronted by my boss with the idea that there were people complaining that I was looking at them too much.
So we talked and with another manager. I agreed to discuss this with the department in question. So then I was visited by the supervisor of these women, and she said I was "checking out bods", or she was trying to get me to say that, so that I could be reformed. She wanted me to be reformed but not formally reprimanded.
I pointed out that my office door was right at the copy machine. Was that the source of the problem?
As I could see it I was not doing anything different from anyone else. Some people were being lewd and silly with the women.
The matter blew over and another dept manager in effect apologized, though indirectly. I already had a transfer out to a better division in the works anyway.
Years later I learned the truth.
1. The matter all started with this woman supervisor. She dressed in what I thought was hippie style, ugly no makeup, gross clothes. She was Orthodox Jewish and she was practicing what they call Modestly. Of course she was married.
2. The young women in question all worked for her. They did not practice Modesty, they practiced short dresses, high heels, and makeup. They were not married.
3. This new supervisor had just graduated from an elite university where she was, on top of her Orthodox Judaism, indoctrinated in some academic based flavors of feminism. She was being taught rules and ideas which most people in work environments do not live by.
4. She must have seen me look at one or more of her women. She approached the woman and said, "Did you see that guy looking at you? He is degrading you. He is degrading all women. You are degrading all women unless you complain and put a stop to it." So then this would have continued until the subordinate agreed to this. Who is going to want their supervisor saying that they are degrading all women? So some signed on in principle to her call for a complaint. Verbal only.
5. So mostly I did not have to work directly with these women. But once I covered for someone and did. I was terrified of them now. But they were actually just fine with me. This did help in my later understanding.
6. So this violates rule #1 of sexual harassment law. The complaint must originate with the one who is being harassed, not from someone else who objects to what is happening. Those women had no independent complaint and were quite welcoming and inviting of such casual gazing. Mostly what they wanted was date invites.
7. That supervisor was not happy with her job, and within 6 months she was laid off.
8. But for some months I had been really cowed, broken in two, make to feel ashamed of my very existence.
So advice, you just have to ride it out, not be provoked. Let it run its course, see what complainant(s) have to say. Best if it does not go to paper work, but just be cool in any event.
Then once it has peaked, you can respond as you see fit, explain yourself out of it, apologize. Maybe try to find another job now.
Maybe eventually a counter law suit.
But lots of complaints do blow over.
Remember rule 1, the complaint has to originate with the one effected, not someone else taking offense. Consensual flirting, horsing around, or physical intimacy, is not a crime. It is just fooling around on company time, and usually of a minor nature.
Everyone does make mistakes. Just be cool. Consider another job as a recourse. Don't let them beat you down.
Sometimes such problems come from people like this supervisor I have described. Other times from young women not experienced with the general public, or from women who lead a guy on and the regret what they have done.
In the pool halls, the hustlers and the losers
I used to watch 'em through the glass
Well I'd stand outside at closing time
Just to watch her walk on past
Two things which helped me to understand some years later, besides that manager's tacit apology, were the fact that I learned more about academic feminism, and then also that I came to know an Orthodox Jewish woman who also bragged about how she practiced this "Modesty". Talking with her at length online and on the phone, it often sounded like she wanted to put all the beautiful women into concentration camps.
Today I can laugh. But at that time I felt like a pile of shit just walking down the hallways.
And again the young women never said a word of complaint. They had just been bullied into going along with the concept, lest they become the labeled culprits due to the way they dressed.
A harassment claim can absolutely be made by a third party, at least in California. Two people having a conversation that makes the third uncomfortable is all it takes.
No, I have never had this problem. But if I did, I would defend myself vigorously. You might also consider floating your resume. In this fucked up day and age, even if you win, you'll still be looked at by many as damaged and the odds that you'll advance where you are have probably diminished dramatically. Your goal now in mounting a vigorous defense would be to stay employed until you can find a similar or even better opportunity.
Since you used the word libel, I’ll assume you meant a written complaint, as opposed to a verbal one.
If it’s untrue, and it’s causing you to stress about your job, turn it back on the libeler and make a complaint about creating a hostile work environment.
If it’s untrue and they fire you, sue the company for firing you on the grounds that you complained about a hostile work environment.
If the accusations are true, find another job and quit before they fire you. Depending on the infraction; some are egregious enough that, if you list them as a former employer, they can and will reply to inquires with “terminated for cause” and sometime even list the cause. If you voluntarily quit, or work a deal that makes your termination “voluntary”, they usually won’t bother with anything more than “left the company,” especially if your work record itself is good.
We used to have a female in my department that ran to management to complain about everything. She once found a Playboy magazine floating around the office. Even complained about my shoes. I had a medical problem and briefly wore tennis shoes to work.
The truth finally came out. She was born in Salem, MA. :)
You could ask for a meeting with whomever is accusing you and HR. Don't swallow your pride per se, but explain you had no idea the person felt whatever they're claiming (i.e. sexually harassed) and apologize and explain that you'll keep awwy from them to avoid further conflict. If it's a female causing you grief, a meeting like such will put her on the spot and probably make her back off or admit that it was a misunderstanding.
As we saw with the Kavanaugh hearings, women will lie to ruin men's careers. Defend yourself vigorously. We are living in the time of fourth wave feminism. I have seen women at my own job use feminist tactics to futher their careers. We are living in a time of guillty until proven innnocent and the court of public opinion.
Talk to HR, ask for a chance to understand what you did to offend someone, and drop in that you're feeling like this is a hostile work environment. Let HR know you might be a liability too.
Reflecting on what you have posted. If you think there is a chance of criminal charges or a lawsuit against you, then it would be good to talk with a lawyer. But do this privately. Don't reveal the lawyer to your employer. Mostly the lawyer will likely just tell you to keep quite. But it might make you feel better, knowing what your defenses might be.
A lawyer cannot prevent them from firing you. The basic law is employment at will. So they can fire you at any time, and they do not need a reason. The only exceptions are when they have discriminated against you in one of just a few protected ways, like race or gender. So they lawyer cannot help you in relations with your employer.
So if things look bad, I would suggest quietly looking for another job.
There is one thing though a lawyer can do. Sometimes employers will pay exit settlements, just to avoid a lawsuit and just to keep people quite. So a lawyer might be able to help you with that.
But once you unveil a lawyer, then your employer will know right off that from now on relations will be mediated by lawyers, and so your future there is gone. So you don't want them to see that you are talking to a lawyer until it has already progressed beyond the point of no return.
Holy shit! This is one of the worst thread-jacks in the history of this site!
SJG - create another thread that no one will read to try and exonerate your creepy ass! Looking at coworkers in a creepy manner? No, not you! Lol!
Eightball - here’s my suggestion. Request a meeting with HR. Bring your lawyer with you. Don’t say anything without representation. Most of the time companies will try to dump the guy who is accused, unless the guy brings in a lot of revenue. If you meet with HR without representation, they will skew everything in favor of the company (and your accuser) and possibly make it more difficult for you.
Have you done anything to warrant this type of accusation? I apologize, as I may have missed the details due to the shit storm from SJG.
20 comments
Latest
First off. Is it true? If it is think of someway to explain what you did, and get thru it as quick as you can. The longer it drags on the longer it impacts your career.
If it’s not true, defend yourself aggressively. HR usually isn’t looking for the truth, they are usually looking for the solution that will expose them to least liability. That usually means getting rid of you.
Our company had lots of young hotties and they dressed sexy.
So one day I was confronted by my boss with the idea that there were people complaining that I was looking at them too much.
So we talked and with another manager. I agreed to discuss this with the department in question. So then I was visited by the supervisor of these women, and she said I was "checking out bods", or she was trying to get me to say that, so that I could be reformed. She wanted me to be reformed but not formally reprimanded.
I pointed out that my office door was right at the copy machine. Was that the source of the problem?
As I could see it I was not doing anything different from anyone else. Some people were being lewd and silly with the women.
The matter blew over and another dept manager in effect apologized, though indirectly. I already had a transfer out to a better division in the works anyway.
Years later I learned the truth.
1. The matter all started with this woman supervisor. She dressed in what I thought was hippie style, ugly no makeup, gross clothes. She was Orthodox Jewish and she was practicing what they call Modestly. Of course she was married.
2. The young women in question all worked for her. They did not practice Modesty, they practiced short dresses, high heels, and makeup. They were not married.
3. This new supervisor had just graduated from an elite university where she was, on top of her Orthodox Judaism, indoctrinated in some academic based flavors of feminism. She was being taught rules and ideas which most people in work environments do not live by.
4. She must have seen me look at one or more of her women. She approached the woman and said, "Did you see that guy looking at you? He is degrading you. He is degrading all women. You are degrading all women unless you complain and put a stop to it." So then this would have continued until the subordinate agreed to this. Who is going to want their supervisor saying that they are degrading all women? So some signed on in principle to her call for a complaint. Verbal only.
5. So mostly I did not have to work directly with these women. But once I covered for someone and did. I was terrified of them now. But they were actually just fine with me. This did help in my later understanding.
6. So this violates rule #1 of sexual harassment law. The complaint must originate with the one who is being harassed, not from someone else who objects to what is happening. Those women had no independent complaint and were quite welcoming and inviting of such casual gazing. Mostly what they wanted was date invites.
7. That supervisor was not happy with her job, and within 6 months she was laid off.
8. But for some months I had been really cowed, broken in two, make to feel ashamed of my very existence.
So advice, you just have to ride it out, not be provoked. Let it run its course, see what complainant(s) have to say. Best if it does not go to paper work, but just be cool in any event.
Then once it has peaked, you can respond as you see fit, explain yourself out of it, apologize. Maybe try to find another job now.
Maybe eventually a counter law suit.
But lots of complaints do blow over.
Remember rule 1, the complaint has to originate with the one effected, not someone else taking offense. Consensual flirting, horsing around, or physical intimacy, is not a crime. It is just fooling around on company time, and usually of a minor nature.
Everyone does make mistakes. Just be cool. Consider another job as a recourse. Don't let them beat you down.
Sometimes such problems come from people like this supervisor I have described. Other times from young women not experienced with the general public, or from women who lead a guy on and the regret what they have done.
SJG
David Gilmour - Comfortably Numb Live in Pompeii 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTseTg48…
David Gilmour Shine On You Crazy Diamond Pompeii 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyBjrX8j…
Joe Bonamassa - "Sloe Gin" - Muddy Wolf at Red Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvvgZMGp…
In the pool halls, the hustlers and the losers
I used to watch 'em through the glass
Well I'd stand outside at closing time
Just to watch her walk on past
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH29n-MV…
So they and I were to be re-educated.
Good Luck eight_ball and hang in there and keep cool at ALL TIMES.
SJG
Looks like it, San Jose Fag!
Today I can laugh. But at that time I felt like a pile of shit just walking down the hallways.
And again the young women never said a word of complaint. They had just been bullied into going along with the concept, lest they become the labeled culprits due to the way they dressed.
SJG
If it’s untrue, and it’s causing you to stress about your job, turn it back on the libeler and make a complaint about creating a hostile work environment.
If it’s untrue and they fire you, sue the company for firing you on the grounds that you complained about a hostile work environment.
If the accusations are true, find another job and quit before they fire you. Depending on the infraction; some are egregious enough that, if you list them as a former employer, they can and will reply to inquires with “terminated for cause” and sometime even list the cause. If you voluntarily quit, or work a deal that makes your termination “voluntary”, they usually won’t bother with anything more than “left the company,” especially if your work record itself is good.
The truth finally came out. She was born in Salem, MA. :)
Reflecting on what you have posted. If you think there is a chance of criminal charges or a lawsuit against you, then it would be good to talk with a lawyer. But do this privately. Don't reveal the lawyer to your employer. Mostly the lawyer will likely just tell you to keep quite. But it might make you feel better, knowing what your defenses might be.
A lawyer cannot prevent them from firing you. The basic law is employment at will. So they can fire you at any time, and they do not need a reason. The only exceptions are when they have discriminated against you in one of just a few protected ways, like race or gender. So they lawyer cannot help you in relations with your employer.
So if things look bad, I would suggest quietly looking for another job.
There is one thing though a lawyer can do. Sometimes employers will pay exit settlements, just to avoid a lawsuit and just to keep people quite. So a lawyer might be able to help you with that.
But once you unveil a lawyer, then your employer will know right off that from now on relations will be mediated by lawyers, and so your future there is gone. So you don't want them to see that you are talking to a lawyer until it has already progressed beyond the point of no return.
SJG
Baker Gurwitz Army Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GXbGPN…
San Jose underground, thanks to Jackslash for finding this:
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/1…
Howlin' Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpKB6OZ_…
SJG - create another thread that no one will read to try and exonerate your creepy ass! Looking at coworkers in a creepy manner? No, not you! Lol!
Eightball - here’s my suggestion. Request a meeting with HR. Bring your lawyer with you. Don’t say anything without representation. Most of the time companies will try to dump the guy who is accused, unless the guy brings in a lot of revenue. If you meet with HR without representation, they will skew everything in favor of the company (and your accuser) and possibly make it more difficult for you.
Have you done anything to warrant this type of accusation? I apologize, as I may have missed the details due to the shit storm from SJG.
SJG