Appropriate "justice" for ROBs

Ignore her

Appropriate justice for PL's who don't establish intimate rapport in the front room, front room makeout session, before going with a girl into a booth or back room?

SJG

Maybe write a yelp review and not only mention name, but also a physical description and what exactly they did.

The only caveat here is that some guys are over-emotional sissies who write crap or behave badly because their feelings are hurt or they are turned down for xyz. but assuming that a guy believes that he has a legitimate beef, then I don't see a problem with doing something. Now stealing is a tough one as things can just as easily get lost, or dropped and picked up by someone other than the girl that entertained him. But for blatant bait and switch or other egregious ROB behavior, my thoughts are as follows:

1. Write a review and clearly identify her name or by appearance, in hopes that others will avoid her in the future.

If she deserves it and the evidence is incontrovertible, then this absolutely. In fact, I did it once to a girl who tried to run a flat out "pay me so we can go" scam.

2. Refuse to pay for some or all dances and walk out

Good luck with that. In the clubs I frequent, they'll call the cops.

3. Decline dances with her during future visits but don't clearly state why

Not much for passive aggressive approaches myself, but I suppose it works if the issue was a minor one and not worth the bother.

4. Decline dances with her during future club visits but clearly state why

A fine option. In fact, I did this with the one who I also trashed in the review.

5. Complain to the club manager (or direct him to reviews on TUSCL)

Only pussies whine to club management.

6. Walk around the club and warn the other customers about the ROB

Only if one is an attention seeking drama queen.

Appropriate justice for San Jose Guy posting his nonsense on the board there is just one answer:
Boot Party with SJG as the guest. Let me go get my size 14 Grip Fasts laced up.

Great discussion idea! My first course is 1. If I spot a ROB, I always include her in my review. I mention her name and exactly what she did. Depending on the club, I might say something to a manager or to a dancer who's close to management who can pass the word on. If I see her again--well, it just depends what she did. Sometimes I'll point out how she tried to scam me previously and then tell her to pound sand. Most of the time, I'll decline dances without saying why or I'll be a total bastard and try to engage her in a long conversation where I agree to a $$$ VIP but say I need to run out to an ATM. Then I'll just leave and go somewhere else. I believe Option 1 is the best. Spread the word and cut off her income. It's been my experience that ROBs never change so they should be run out of the business for everyone's sake.

"carlos_spiceyweiner"? Seriously? Just how many aliases does Juice have on here?

Maybe get a box of Kleenex and sulk in the corner like a pussy.

Report her to the Better Business Bureau

:)

I actually have never looked at the Better Business Bureau - I wonder if strip clubs are reported on there.

No, two_bits. The only worse thing you could have called me was SJG--maybe.

Many a dancer doesn't give a shit other than $$$, particularly ROBs of course - thus not paying her beyond the services she provided is for me the best course of action - many ROBs continue ROBing bc too many guys pay up and the ROBs assume there are enough newbs or wimps that will pay up.

Telling management IME is a crapshoot essentially especially if one is not a well-known/established regular - at best it's your word against hers and at wort some managers are douches themselves, so I typically don't bother.

Ok if you already got some dances pay for what you got and what you actually owe her going by w/e ur standard pricing is. If she is lying or making shit up or she is one of those shit weak hustlers that gets the dances then is like "o by the way it's $50 a dance" w/e stand ur ground only pay what u owe. Idk if complaining to manager will work, some clubs will fuck the customer just depending who runs it. I'd probably just leave if management/bouncers seem to be hostile or in on the scam too. But yeah mentioning such and such in a review could help others avoid the same pitfall.

Write a sternly worded letter to The New York Times.

Blackballing ROBs is fairly-effective bc again it hurts the most important thing, their $$$

^ Isn't that a bit racist?

^ you're right, I meant africanamericanballing

Thank you

rick dugan +1 - I have no compunction about outing a ROB in a review. Some version of #3 or #4 goes without saying. Additionally, I will refuse to tip a ROB's stage set. (i.e, don't approach the stage during her set). Now a couple of bucks or so isn't going to alter my life spending much either way. On the flip side I keep a certain amount of $$ in interest bearing checking accounts. The amount I'd save in one night withholding tips from ROB dancer equals the monthly interest earned at todays (still) absurdly low rates on some accounts.

How about a beheading?

ROBs.... luckily I haven’t had to deal with too many but here’s how I handled the one that I remember best.

We agreed to a service and a fee. Went to VIP - service wasn’t performed, so I paid her for dances that were performed. She fought me about it and eventually caved in.

I left a bad review mentioning her name but not saying what exactly happened to protect the club and I guess her for some part.

Oddly enough she approached me in the club a few months later and I just blew her off. She was so ditzy she probably didn’t even remember what happened before. If she did there’s no way someone even that dumb would approach a custy.

Rip off her head and shit down her throat

Nicespice: I hadn't considered a Yelp review. It probably reaches more readers that TUSCL and the dancer might actually read the negative review. Good suggestion.

For those who are skeptical about informing management of the ROB, it might depend on your approach and whether you are a regular at a club. I've approached a manager and said something like, "I'm assuming that you might be concerned about the reputation of your club and the impact it might have on future business. I thought you might want to know about my experience with XXXXX and take that into consideration with your future employment decisions." Of course, this assumes that the manager is competent enough to be concerned about the club's business and gutsy enough to fire a dancer I --- OK, may be asking too much.

It’s been my experience that if you stand your ground, these ROBs back down quickly. Most of them try to keep it under the radar and don’t like exposure, I have had my share just like anyone else, but unless the manager or bartenders are in on theirs scams, and most are not, the attention of you standing up for yourself is more often than not, quite effective.
In the case where other employees are involved, Papi got it right with beheading ;)

Depending on how badly she's trying to screw me (in the not-desirable way), I'll do some combination of 1, 4, and 5. I've also done some form of Shailynn's "I'll pay you for what you actually did, and that's it."

Regarding #5, I've never actually gotten to the point where I had to talk to management. But, if things get really heated I've occasionally said "Before I pay for anything, I want to talk to your manager." Now, that's a bit of a bluff, because most dancers want to stay off management's radar as much as the customers. I've used that line a grand total of three times and in all three cases the dancer's temperature dropped and she took the money I offered.

It's also true that some dancers have the long-term memory of a moth at a light bulb. I've had a ROB approach me a week after a blow out and it's pretty obvious that she didn't remember us fighting at all. I reminded her, which went over poorly. (shrug)

As we all know, the overwhelming majority of serious ROB events involve promises not kept. So how exactly does it go when you complain to management? Imagine this scenario:

PL: Excuse me kind sir, but I'm assuming that you might be concerned about the reputation of your club and the impact it might have on future business. I thought you might like to know that Sahara is making promises that she is not keeping in the VIP room.

Manager: I'm not sure I understand. What happened?

PL: She promised to give me a blowjob to do certain things for an extra $60, but after I paid her she refused to keep her promise!

Manager: Sir, I'm not sure what she promised exactly, but you do realize that prostitution is illegal in this state, no? (while thinking about how much of a whiny and stupid little d-bag this PL is).

PL: The point is that she made a promise and then ripped me off. If she didn't intend to deliver then she shouldn't be making promises like that!

Manager: I'm going to have to ask you to leave now (adding in his head, "you weird whiny little bitch").

I agree with rickdugan. Complaining to managers is basically futile. Unless the dancer signed an actual contract of employment with the club, which seldom happens, she is considered an independent contractor and the manager can't do much. Nor do managers care usually. They can't/shouldn't admit that prostitution is taking place either (and if they do, they're not a good manager).

Letting the dancer know you'll be leaving a revie and paying for whatever songs you did in vip is probably best if services promised aren't given. Now, if she pickpockets or takes your money out of your hand and leaves, then yes, at that point complain to the vip host - but not the manager. If she's already a problem and has had complaints, the vip host will know and should then inform the manager.

Rickdugan--- you are absolutely right that the conversation could go that way. But add one more line:


Manager: I'm going to have to ask you to leave now (adding in his head, "you weird whiny little bitch").

PL: I was on my way out to post a review of your club, the dancer in question and your half assed work as a manager. I'll post the review on every outlet that I can find. I suspect that it will not damage your business too much but if it does, I hope that you'll think of this moment of failed customer service when your club tanks and you get booted from your management job. Besides, I might not be the only customer to have a bad experience with XXX.


Maybe only in the movies would it play out like that?-- that's why all the other ROB accountability tactics are suggested. Even if the suggested tactics don't work, short of beheading, it is still important to do something to hold ROBs accountable and warn future victims.

* I'm sure that all sounded very satisfying and empowering in your head. ;)

IRL I suspect that neither he nor you would be standing there long enough for you to deliver that mouthful. And if you did manage to blurt it all out, I'm guessing that he'd be more amused and disgusted than anything.

Our power comes from the ability to withhold payment in the first place when someone tries to rip us off. When we fail at that, the next best option is to avoid paying her in the future and, if it was bad enough, posting about it on places like tuscl and other boards that are heavily used in your location. In my experience, ROBs don't last long in clubs where dancers rely upon regulars/repeat business as word gets out. Beyond these things, anything else that you consider doing will likely cause you more harm than good, especially in a club that you frequent.

As far as involving management goes, it's not realistic to expect management to turn a blind eye when you are getting your knob polished, but then act like your Daddy and jump in to help when your illicit activities go sour. If he was truly doing his job in properly managing the place, you wouldn't be able to purchase anything beyond a legal LD in the first place. So either you're a grown ass man who can manage his interactions with strippers, including your own emotional reactions when things go sideways, or you are not, in which case you should probably frequent the more restrictive clubs.

^ This is one of those weird space time continuums, when I’m completely agreeing with you Rick.

^ Twenty, even a broken clock is right twice a day. You can decide for yourself which of us you think is the broken clock in that metaphor, but our opinions will likely differ on that too. ;)

^ That might depend on whether the clock is repairable, or not, if it’s repaiabl it would be me, but if it is just totally beyond repair my guess is that would be you ;)

Find a dancer at the same club who doesn't like her and pay her to beat her ass.

Interesting timing. After posting this discussion thread I encountered a ROB at Bogarts, Inkster Michigan.

Here's the relevant section from a longer multi-club review that i posted under Subi's.


Final stop Bogarts, well known, extras-friendly dive bar. Of the dozen dancers on duty, 3 or 4 were pretty decent. One of the best features of this visit to Bogarts was a female customer who was tipping the dancers on stage. The dancers would pull the customer's top up and get out her oversized boobs for some fondling. The customer was not especially hot (nice face but too heavy) but the tip rail action was fun to watch. Eventually, I struck up a conversation with Buffy, a 30 something brunette with a nice slender figure and an OK face. Negotiated a trip to the VIP with clear expectations and costs, paid the $10 dollar entry fee (usable for return visits) and started my session. She asked for payment up front saying that she had been scammed on more than one occasion, always a red flag. I gave her half of the agreed upon amount and said the remainder at completion. She started our session but immediately began asking for more money than we had negotiated and reneging on our deal. I decided to stop the session after three lackluster dancers. She threw a tantrum claiming that I was cheating her and asked for more money. I offered an extra $20 but refused to pay any more. This now totaled $70 dollars for three dances. That seemed reasonable to me and well above the advertised dance special on Tuesday ($10 dances). She insisted that we go talk to the manager who would "throw me out of the club." I said, let's go find him. Of course, her explanation was completely inaccurate and full of lies. I stepped in and asked the manager to look in her purse where he'd find a crisp $50 bill that I had paid at the start of the session (she had forgotten to mention that aspect when complaining about the $20 that I had given her at the end of the three dances). Of course Buffy refused to relinquish her purse to the manager for any inspection. He said to her, this drama seems to happen with you nearly every shift, and it only happens with you. Clean up your act or don't come back here to dance again. She stomped off. The manager apologized to me noting that this shady dealing has been a recurring problem with Buffy. Good for the manager (and good for Bogart's for not tolerating ROBs). Note, I was not trying to recoup any money, just to hold her accountable for shady business dealings and threatening customers. Also note, that I am using her stage name (Buffy) in hopes that other future customers will be cautious in negotiating any dances with her.

Note to rickdugan-- Man up and do the right thing when you encounter a ROB, including talking to the manager. You don't have to be "whiney" (your words, not mine) when talking with the manager. You aren't trying to get your money returned or to get the manager to correct what has already happened, but you should hold a dancer accountable for being a ROB in a fashion that is meaningful, and her job is meaningful to most dancers. In truth, I don't know if the manager followed through with his threat of firing this dancer, but the message to the dancer was pretty clear. It also helps the club provide high quality entertainment value if they can weed out the ROBs. Besides, you just might save one of your fellow TUSCLers a future ROB experience.

I had an experience at the same club which Electronman wrote about, and will be posting it soon.
Gratifying to read that the manager was receptive to NON-WHINING feedback, I think this is the key point.

Kudos to the manager - because this encourages readers (such as me) that we will not be blown off if our feedback is to the point and matter of fact. This manager seemed to understand - whether a review happens or not, but especially if it is - the Club's business will be enhanced if he takes appropriate feedback seriously.

Second point is that feedback must be about scam/thievery, not about "promises not kept", for reasons that should be obvious.

Electronman, you must club in some very different places than I do. If I whined to a manager in one of the clubs I frequent about a girl not delivering on her promised extras, I'd probably get laughed out of the building. I just can't imagine bleating about things like "customer service" to one of those guys.

A grown man of a certain age who complains to another grown man about how the big bad naked young girl took advantage of him is going to sound like a whiny bitch no matter how good it all sounds in his head. Given the number of reviews you've posted on this site, one would think that you'd have learned to manage your own interactions with strippers by now. Sorry there fella', but you don't get to tell other men to "man up" when you need to enlist the help of other grown men to manage your dealings with naked young women. ;)

LMAO.

@rick - could we possibly get you to expound more on the pro's and con's of "greasing" versus whining to strip club managers? ;)

@electronman I’m still agreeing with Rick minus the condescension, the dancer you had a problem with according to you was the one who involved the manager, I’d guess that the manager in question really didn’t want to be bothered with the bullshit and just found it easier to get after the person that brought this to him. The fact that she involved him made his decision for him, I wonder if you had been the one to approach the manager if his response would have been the same. I really don’t think it would have been.

I'm done debating this further because the reality is that I will never understand the mentality of a man who wants the manager to stay far away when he negotiates illicit activities with the dancer, but then wants to be able to run to Daddy when it doesn't go his way. You're either man enough to manage these things on your own or you're not, in which case the manager must maintain a protective environment that doesn't allow for illicit activities in the first place.

Seriously, what's next, driving back to the club to bitch about a girl who didn't deliver as expected OTC? ;)

OK, I'm out of this ridiculous conversation now.

None of the above.

Learn to deal with them and how to spot them.