What is your idea of a “fair” relationship?
I wrote something on another thread and I’m going to repaste it here, because I’d like to expand on it specifically.
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“I believe that in any relationship, people should be open and honest with each other and adhere to the golden rule of “treat others the way you want to be treated”
Monogamy is good. Open relationships are good. A healthy couple should openly discuss what is okay and not okay. Healthy relationship communication and all.
What’s not good is cheating, or trying to make a demand on another person you wouldn’t be willing to follow through with yourself, as if that person is a second class citizen to yourself.”
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I get the impression that some here, in their personal relationships, prefer to demand more value than they would be willing to give in their own personal life.
And trying to justify their viewpoint by using colorful language such as “losers/cuckolds/pussies” towards others who don’t behave the same.
I don’t think it’s just a PL thing. It’s a human nature thing.
Believe me, I roll my eyes at females who do bs things like demand their boyfriends unfriend some female on social media while going around having multiple “like a brother” friendships with dudes she hooked up with in the past and will probably continue to do whenever she gets angry at the boyfriend. Or something else similar. I judge that attitude from them just as harshly.
Except on here, I have the privilege of being behind a computer screen so I am going to call people out more boldly on here than in real life.
Which leads to the topic title. Is there any justification for making demands on another person that you yourself wouldn’t be willing to do?
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“I believe that in any relationship, people should be open and honest with each other and adhere to the golden rule of “treat others the way you want to be treated”
Monogamy is good. Open relationships are good. A healthy couple should openly discuss what is okay and not okay. Healthy relationship communication and all.
What’s not good is cheating, or trying to make a demand on another person you wouldn’t be willing to follow through with yourself, as if that person is a second class citizen to yourself.”
—-
I get the impression that some here, in their personal relationships, prefer to demand more value than they would be willing to give in their own personal life.
And trying to justify their viewpoint by using colorful language such as “losers/cuckolds/pussies” towards others who don’t behave the same.
I don’t think it’s just a PL thing. It’s a human nature thing.
Believe me, I roll my eyes at females who do bs things like demand their boyfriends unfriend some female on social media while going around having multiple “like a brother” friendships with dudes she hooked up with in the past and will probably continue to do whenever she gets angry at the boyfriend. Or something else similar. I judge that attitude from them just as harshly.
Except on here, I have the privilege of being behind a computer screen so I am going to call people out more boldly on here than in real life.
Which leads to the topic title. Is there any justification for making demands on another person that you yourself wouldn’t be willing to do?
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The couple consists of a high earning doctor and a secretary.
It doesn't matter which is male or female or if they are the same sex.
Now say they have a young child and it is important to the couple that one of them be a stay at home parent because they see benefit in providing that to the child.
I can understand the doctor demanding to be the one that continues his/her career.
But for me I think it is hypocritical and "unfair" to expect something of your SO that you wouldn't expect of yourself. For example I can't and won't say shit to my wife if she wanted to go see a male stripper at a club and have him rub his dick all over her. That's what I do with a female stripper so I have no standing to expect anything different from her. If I can't expect or allow my wife to to the same, then I won't do it either.
No.
To elaborate on georgemicrodong's response; no justification is required.
2) give a specific example about what you mean (you seem to be tip-toeing around what you really wanna say)
The women that I am dating is quite content with the relationship that we are developing, as an I, the minute she tells me that I’m being unfair, at that point I’ll gladly discuss it with her, saying that there are some things for me that are non- negotiable. First and foremost among these items are that I don’t care what she did in the past, the future is mine as long as it lasts and I’ll never tolerate her grinding away on another guy. I made my stand based on hist, not because I care what you or anyone else thinks, and it’s right upfront, so she is free to reject that, but if you want what I have to offer than, you’ll accept, what I want, if that’s not fair I don’t know what is.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but I never participate in the pile in’s that occur here nor do I ever call specific posters vile names, nor iimpugn their character, I don’t care if you agree with my opinion, but I absolutely have a sense of fair play and am very aware, of the fact that you have every right to earn your living as you see fit, I don’t look down on you for it, but I just won’t accept it from my partner.
It's a great relationship you've got. Not easy - with long distance and all. But great - as both are putting effort into it. In the end what matters is two consenting adults. Nothing else.
One can respect view of a man (or woman) who could not stand the thought of their partner being a stripper or prostitute. But to expect everyone to have that same view - or worse, make attempts to impose that kind of view is wrong. Just plain wrong. I suspect some people go that extra distance (attempt to impose) as part of justifying why they are what they are.
World is full of different people. Some men like dominating partners while some women like dominating men. And yet - many like equality.
"Two consenting adults (i.e., 18+)" - is where societies norms and morals should stop.
Yet in today's world there are endless dialogues around "what two consenting adults are doing is wrong and I would never do it" ... could never understand that !??!
... always reminds me of this funny joke:
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church... everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down inside they want some too.
From reading your reply it sounds like you're speaking about twentyfive's response. While I do agree with him that I wouldn't be able to handle having a stripper girlfriend, I won't go the step he took to call those SO's of those strippers losers. It almost resembles SJG and his front room sessions. And how he calls anyone that doesn't use his approach to connecting with dancers via front room make out sessions and instead buys dances, chumps. People have different viewpoints about all kinds of stuff in life. Calling someone derogatory names because their views aren't in line with yours doesn't accomplish anything.
BTW stripfighters your remark here was perfect and I wholeheartedly agree
>Are you asking what makes a fair relationship or a successful one?? Because they're not the same thing. A fair relationship is where each partner has equal stakes and equal influence, whereas a successful one requires so much more.<
I know something like 4-8 others said “I personally couldn’t date a dancer.” But they left the insults out so I’m not concerned about them.
25 said twice that’s it’s not a diss on me. But I’d rather be insulted personally than hear a dig at my boyfriend, who would be included in that category of “losers.”
I don’t know what Warren’s background is, but both 25 and Gaca said they have someone special in their life. And yet they have no problems having fun with other women. Are those women losers as well? *Especially* if they stay at home knitting or whatever good girls do while letting them go play?
If the answer is “oh well, it’s impossible to be equal because people bring different qualities to the relationship”, then I want to hear what qualities equalize one way only polyamory.
And please give a better answer than “money.” The average “loser” of a female would find way more financial stability in being provided for from multiple men than a single man who can cut her off at any time.
The exception to what I said is maybe Dadillac, but that’s because that allowance was far beyond average. And she was given a choice to take it or leave it.
(Off topic, when I researched into qualities of the most successful sugar babies, they seem to be girls who call a guy a “boyfriend” and pretend to be monogamous when they’re not. Granted I say a lot of nonsense in my job, but at least customers know that my affection comes at $20 or $25 a song. It’s why I decided not to pursue the sugar baby route once I read about it.)
Good comments from other people on here, thanks.
Also, two bits might be the new troll who will have my affection after Nicole leaves me for San Jose Guy for good.
(Not sure who this 25¢ you're referring to is, is that some kind of dig on me?)
I had one ex boyfriend who blatantly pulled the “I’m going to do what I want but you can’t” thing on it too. I went along with it because I was suffering through personal depression during that time. I ended up cheating on him behind his back. And then coming to my senses and ending it. A complete waste of time on both of our ends.
Besides, our situations aren’t exactly alike anyways. The reasons my boyfriend is okay with it temporarily is because, as he sees it, without the degree my opportunity cost is too high to quit. But that I can easily get myself in an environment with more money and suitable work conditions due to my intelligence. It might just be flattery on his end, lol, but I owe it to him to at least give it a good try. Plus I keep my dances to only dances.
And outside of crossing certain lines, I in turn allow him some flexibility as well. He can go to strip clubs himself. Or even flirt with others as long as it’s done in a friendly manner. In his overseas travel, he hung out with an (in his words) “adorable” bartender one time because they were both heading in the same direction. But the most he did was buy her food and have friendly chit chat.
So I at least give him the basic respect that he deserves. You on the other hand are just trying to make demands just cause in your life.
You are not the first male and certainly not the last to be like this. That’s why I had no problem starting to dance in the first place, because I had been in controlling relationships in the past. I figured the “cost” of becoming a dancer wasn’t that high.
I suspect that her going along with it is simple burnout, especially because are in the summer season. Maybe you can come out ahead in keeping things as you wish but just don’t count on it.
I suspect that if she does go with it then at first you will be happy with it as a *conquest* but in fact your views of her her will be lowered.
At the end of the day what is fair is what you can live with
@nice I won’t think about her as a conquest, you really are reading me wrong, if it works out it’s because we want it to(both of us).
This topic touched on a very sore spot for me, sorry if you were offended, but I won’t apologize for being a normal man, with my own sense of where I stand in life.
That’s all I really care to say at this point.
I am bothered if my wife talks to another guy who she is attracted to. But I don't care if the guy is attracted to my wife.
@nicespice - Is that fairly reciprocal or asymetrical?
@PaulDrake yeah I guess reciprocity is more of what happens action wise instead of feelings.
(Though the entitlement I was ranting about, from men or women, is very real and I would have no problems being savage in the future on that subject, lol.)
I'm at the person I am seeing now at a strip club where she was a dancer. After some initial drama involving her kid and the guy she was seeing things have been going pretty well.
So let me qualify and answer your question.
"What is my idea of a “fair” romantic relationship?"
Like a relationship we're both people walk away feeling that it is a win-win mutually beneficial relationship. That doesn't mean that things are equal. It means that either party finds their desired value and benefits from the relationship.
When I go to the club I give a girl money she dances on my lap. That's not equal the dance is not the same as a $20 bill. And I'm not dancing on her lap for $20 in return. But we both received a value from our (albeit temporary) relationship.
so what's fair is that I get my emotional and physical needs met. And she might require something else maybe more financial security and emotional support (or whatever it is a Girl Wants from a guy). Guarantee you it's not going to ever be equal or the same but it will be an exchange where both parties receive something they value. That's the social exchange theory
so it's fair is I need a girl who loves me to be myself without being jealous and I allow her to be herself. And this is where screening and chemistry and shared values come in. Division of labor and gender roles and what not. what is fair is that I meet a girl who wants what I have to offer who has no problems with my way of being and and her way of being matching something I can tolerate and accept as well.
That being said any guy you can tolerate his woman being groped on at $20 or $30 at a time doesn't value his woman or his personal space and thus himself too much.
So it’s high volume lapdancers you wouldn’t like? What about other kinds of dancers?
There’s this one club that has a core group of dancers who sit around a large table area (usually empty cause the customers have to pay ~$350 to sit there) and watch the entrance like hawks. They wait around for the high roller to come in so that they can score a cabana with him. I think these girls are the ones who charge like $700-1,000 for their time too whereas most others are okay with $500. And the club itself has minimal extras too.
And I’d come at you more, but I’m in a good mood today. Maybe I can ask my baby Nicole to fight you.
We're not fighting, just passionately debating our position :)
So when I look at a man that is ok (not that he likes it but he tolerates it) with the love of his life being groped for 20 bucks, I don't have a high opinion of him. Maybe he does not make enough to support the two of them or maybe he does not love them enough to keep them out of that situation, I really don't know and my job is not to judge him or her. But I am responsible for my actions and I could not tolerate my girlfriend stripping.... If I offered to help and she choose to keep dancing then I would have no choice but to move on
I'm not trying to save these hoes. You're correct when you said I'd could possibly tolerate more at lower volume, classier and more respectful clientele, and properly compensated for her time. Then I'd more than encourage her to be fleecing them fools. But $20 a pop and grinding on grimy motherfucker who don't know where to keep their hands... Hell nah. Absolutely not.
Did you massage his sore spot?
For instance, if san_jose_guy ever finds The One, he'll probably know because he'll finally be inspired to start calling around to lawyers in the yellow pages to work out the legal formalities of having a group of guys pump loads into her down at the clubhouse. Then there's GACA and Dadillac who would offer the Roxanne deal.
For my part, I have had better results inspiring women to drop other guys by my personal warmth and knowledge of South Park rather than making demands. I think it's fair for her to feel out the actual deal being offered and whether she wants to accept.
I pull back if she isn't offering what I'm looking for, though. I don't find it fair to persist in a relationship only to harbor resentment because the other person is incapable or unwilling to meet your expectations.
So it's your way or the highway?
As long as the guy is upfront about it, and she accepts it I see no issues with this arrangement. Now the open relationship has to be agreed upon what that means. For me, that means seeing other women, flirting, talking, kissing, sleeping with etc., however, doesn't mean doing whatever the hell I want and not taking her emotions/needs into consideration. It means at this point I'm not monogamous.
Now it's up to her to choose to accept those terms; to treat her well, to have fun, to wine and dine her knowing that I'm not doing that solely with her. If so great, if not I wish her good luck and we don't play the game of wasting either of our times. It's better to know what you want early, than pretend to be something and find out later, or worse find out behind your back.
Like you said, you're cheating both yourself and your partner.
I find it short-sighted to find somebody who's beautiful, smart, kind, funny, etc everything I look for in a partner to throw it away because she chooses to strip. Now, will I find someone like that in the strip club?? Who knows.
More like Baby won't you come my way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS-5oD2Y…
Reminds me of the story.... the guy asks the woman if she will have sex with him for 1 million dollars, the woman replies yes.... so the guy says how about 10 dollars, the woman responds 10 dollars? what kind of woman do you think I am? The guy says we established what kind of woman you are now we are just haggling over the price
The fat lying fucking cunt waitress at Flashers told me two true things in the entire 2 years I visited that club, otherwise she was completely useless. First she asked what I expected to find in a strip club, a good woman? Second she said that if I let it get to me I would become a bitter old man.... I am bitter as hell, I assume every stripper is lying before I see her and I am at the club for one purpose.... to get laid by a whore that I wont feel guilty about fucking and do it for the least amount of money. I would feel guilty fucking and walking away from a civilian woman that is expecting a call the next day so I don't bother with them for sex.
I’m a firm believer in that old definition of insanity, doing the same thing will yield the same results no matter what you think, so when I find something not working for me I change it up.
Would I ever date a stripper or prostitute? If I was infatuated with her, than probably. Would I be OK with her continuing her job? My mind might say yes, but if I saw her in person grinding naked on another man's body than I may suddenly change my mind.