NBA Finals

LeBron is not enough to overcome Golden State's fire power

Naw, I’m going with the Warriors.

As far as the threads go, do whatever you need to get Nina to post so I can keep looking at her avi. Lol.

Golden State will win.....it will not be a sweep.

I think the Warriors will win the series.

As far as keeping Nina posting here - I’m all for her input and avatar! It will be interesting to see if we get more dancers posting here - than in the discussion directed at dancer input.

I don’t think it will be a sweep, but My opinion if Golden State thinks they can turn it on at will that will be a mistake, if the Cavs extend them to 6 games, I’ll consider it a massive failure for a team overloaded with superstars.

^^ I'll agree to that. The Cavs are still the NBA and Lebron ( though not the GOAT ) is still a formidable player. If you take any team lightly, they will beat you. Cavs MIGHT win game 3.

Last year the Cavs had Kyrie Irving and were closer to full strength and health, and they were lucky to win a game. The Warriors were pretty healthy too. This year, the Cavs just seem to be stretched thin and running on fumes. The Warriors are more banged up (Curry, Thompson playing hurt and Iguodala's completely out, right now). Of course, no team is really healthy during the Finals. I still can't see the Cavs winning or even eking out a competitive series. Warriors in 5 again although a sweep wouldn't surprise me.

So I’ve watched every just about every single Cavs Playoff game and watched a good but of GS games.

I sit there and scratch my head... LeBron shows up every night, sometimes 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 other players show up on any given night. If everyone would show up, JR and Krover knocking 3s, Tristen actually doing something, Nance and Hill being productive in their minutes... this could be a 6 or 7 games series against a banged up GS team. But, that’s too good to give true and it’s not gonna happen.

If Jeff Green plays it changes the defense and the speed of the game. Sorry despite some of the comments on how great Kevin Love is I feel he is overrated.

Secondly I'm curious who is going to draw the defensive responsibility for LeBron. It's normally Iguodala and he isn't available from what I am hearing. Overall it's not enough to swing the series but it opens the door a bit.

^^ Draymond Green will take on Lebron.

Durant and Thompson and maybe even Livingston will take their turns as well.

That whole without Iguodala, James will do whatever he wants, is overblown. GS is a way better defensive (and offensive) team than Cleveland, and outside of James, there is no one that demands full defensive attention, outside of maybe Love, which is why i would start him over Jeff Green.

I don't think he will do whatever he wants anymore than he did against the Celtics or Raptors......then again.

With Green --he is 1) suspect to get into foul trouble 2) if he is on LeBron it pulls him away from the boards and rebounds. ( see comments about Thompson and Green if he plays) Rebounds mean second chances.

With Livingston it takes away from his offense........there are plenty of other weapons GS has but still.

Durant--I'm not feeling it......at least not for long......if anything this is a recipe for zone defense technical to be called.......

Green is the obvious choice I agree with Warrior and as long as he doesn't pick up a 3rd foul by the 1st Quarter or go batshit nuts and get T'd up and out it probably is the best choice.

Harden for MVP

Harden is the GOAT

I wonder if Javalle will get any minutes. He rarely played last series but he's been effective, and he can rebound, block, and even score (lots of dunks).

Harden will win the MVP ( this year ). But even for this Rockets fan, he is by no means the GOAT. He's not even the best Rockets player ever. That designation goes to Hakeem.

LeBron will get his but it won't be enough, GS's ceiling is much-higher than CLEV's - and good chance LeBron will have to overextend himself and tire out.

Olajuwan is definitely Houston's GOAT and possibly the best center ever, yes more than Kareem, Russell, Wilt Shaq, Yao =D, etc. Amazing two way player and took a team of basically scrubs (worse than any of LeBron's supporting casts in the Finals outside of maybe the first one against the Spurs) all the way the first year Jordan retired.

^
While I agree that Olajuwon is the best player in rockets franchise history I disagree with the comment about his supporting cast being scrubs. While they weren’t a super team he had a solid supporting cast. Otis Thorpe was a solid player who averaged a double double that year, Vernon Maxwell was talented, but never reached his full potential because of the antics, Kenny Smith was a reliable shooter, Mario Elie was a tough defender & you had young Robert Horry & Sam Cassell. I would take that supporting cast over what lebron has to work with in these finals. I’d be surprised if the Cavs won a game or even stayed within double digits in any game. This series is going to get ugly.

I wonder if Draymond Green will kick anyone in the nuts this year ! lol

Wow, someone actually knows about the other players on those Rockets teams. None of those other players made the All-Star team that year, although Otis Thorpe and Sam Cassell may have made it once during their careers. But that year, Cassell was a rookie and Robert Horry (possibly their next most important player) was a sophomore. They were nowhere near the contributing players they would later become for their teams. As for the rest, if Houston didn't win a title, no one would remember those guys.

I would still take prime Kevin Love over Otis Thorpe (and Tristan Thompson was a similar player) or a very young Horry. Vernon Maxwell, when he wasn't crazy, was better than Smith or Korver, though, but was a poor volume shooter at all ranges, even FTs. George Hill is a better overall PG than Kenny Smith but without the rings. Jeff Green provides similar intangibles as Elie off the bench.

If you take away Olajuwan, i don't think LeBron does much with that team, especially against a very physical and good rebounding Knicks team (Ewing, Oakley, Mason). Not that Dream could beat the Warriors if you put him on these Cavs, but the Warriors would have absolutely no answer for him and he would do a decent job against Durant, at least better than Tristan Thompson.

KD would just drag him out of the paint if he tried to guard him.

That would be a problem (for any team) against the Warriors with their "death" line up. All starters can play on the perimeter and handle the ball. Even so, Olajuwon had great quick hands and could block jump shots. He was also quick enough that if you drove past him, he could block you from behind, maybe not quite like LeBron though.

But it would pull him away from the basket. GSW has a lot of other weapons.

Kevin Love IS playing tonight. Just announced on ESPN.

I saw Sam Cassell the first time I ever went to a SC.

Okay, now for some stuff that's germane to the discussion: this Warriors team doesn't seem to have the focus that the past teams did. That's why this will go 5.

The old Rockets weren't scrubs, but they very much fit the 'one star plus role players' mold that most champions before the current era fit. We remember the exceptions because they were the dynasties (Lakers, Celtics, Bulls), but most of the champions had one guy who was above the rest. You could say that about the Bulls too, actually: as great as Pippen was, almost no one believes he was on Jordan's level. Better than a role player, obviously, but a rung below 23 on the ladder.

Should be fun to watch tonight, though...unless you're a Cavs fan.

^ Are you sure about that? Most championships throughout the NBA's history have been super or near superteams. The 60s was Bill Russell and multiple HOFers (Cousey, Havlicek, Jones/Jones, Sharman, etc). Wilt was on that loaded 76ers team (Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham, all HOFers) in '67 and a '72 Lakers team that had West, Baylor and Gail Goodrich, although Baylor retired before the playoffs. That team still held the record for wins for 24 years.

The Knicks in the early 70s had Frazier, Monroe, Reed, Debusschere, Lucas, all HOFers AND members of the 50 greatest ever. Mid 70s had Celtics with Cowens, Havlicek and Jojo White, again all HOFers.
80s had the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, and Pistons superteams. 90s had the Bulls and 00s had Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, and the Spurs with their big 3/4 (Robinson played in one Final), Pistons again with 4 All-Stars, Celtics with their big 3/4 and Lakers again with Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Metta World Peace.

10s (current decade) had the Heat, Spurs, Warriors and Cavs superteams and the Warriors will probably finish off this decade. There were only a handful or so of "weak" teams in that entire period. The mid-late 70s had Rick Berry and company (no other stars, Jamaal Wilkes was the next best player), Bill Walton's 76 Blazers had "only" Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins. The Bullets with Elvin Hayes, an older Wes Unseld and Bob Dandrige and Supersonics with Jack Sikma, Dennis Johnson (only HOFer, but for his work with the Celtics) and Gus Williams, traded titles in the late 70s.

Then you had the 90s Rockets teams although the second one had Drexler, but lost a couple role players and the 99 Spurs with "just" Duncan and Robinson, 2006 Heat with Wade and an aging Shaq and the 2010 Mavericks with Dirk, Chandler, Marion and Terry. (Caron Butler was injured).

So no i don't think the "one star plus role players" model ever really won titles except with Rick Berry, Olajuwon, Nowitzki and maybe Wade. Some one star teams have gone to the Finals, most notably: Iverson's 76ers (probably the worst supporting Finals team and they still won a game!), Kidd's Nets, and LeBron's first Cavs Finals team.

^ well damn

Nba will try to extend this to 5 or 6 games for revenue

I figured Javalle would play more this game, he offers defense and size. Good for him.

Speaking of Olajuwon, Phi Slamma Jamma was such a fun college team to watch back in the day.

Game is going down to the wire. 1 pts lead with 1 minute to go

^ great insight

Phi Slamma Jamma. I got to see them play against Pepperdine. Drexler was a freek!!

Lol Papi.

Not a single white player on the court.

Yeah take that the fucking referees are fucking blind Stevie Wonder could have called this game better !

Is JR Smith a Rhodes Scholar?

Stevie Wonder isn't really blind.

They still might cover the 12.5 pt spread.

Cavs were robbed

51-8-8. GOAT

^ that wasn't even a triple-double

"Cavs were robbed"

Dude. Enough. They had a chance to win on a buzzer beater at the end of regulation and JR Smith's stupid ass dribbled the ball out instead of going for a shot. You can even see him mouth the words, "I thought we were ahead" to Lebron after the buzzer went off sending it into overtime. The fact that it's a finals game with a few seconds left, and someone is at the free throw line, there is no excuse for thinking your team is ahead after that and it illustrates greatly how discombobulated the Cavs are.

Oh and that bullshit at the end... Tristan Thompson is straight trash and should be suspended next game. It looked like he was deliberately trying to get Draymond, the "hot head" of the Warriors to swing on him. Instead, Tristan hits Draymond in the face with the basketball and looked like he hit Draymond on the face with a closed fist (a weak one, at that, but... whatever)...but Tristan did all that AFTER he had already been thrown out.

@Nina that bullshit at the end was just that bullshit, but the refs changing the call from charging to blocking was the real deal breaker, you know it was a charging foul because Durant, put his head down and saw LeBron in the lane and it was obvious that at the moment he wasn’t going to score, rather he was looking to slam, plus with the game on the line as big as this one the ref changed his call due to the noise from the crowd, not because he saw anything to change the facts of the contact.

^^^ @Papi

^ great insight

@theDirkDiggler - I pretty clearly said the Lakers, Celtics, and Bulls were exceptions. Those 70s Celtics teams you mentioned, though, won twice. The 70s Knicks won twice. The 80s Sixers won once. The 80s Pistons won twice, and they were far from a superteam. A team that was really well put together, and I certainly enjoyed rooting for them...but not a superteam. So yes, I am sure.

^ I agree with your comment about the Pistons 100%

They had a lot of players that we know the name of, but it was a collection of good role players. I don't think any of them were a top-10 player in the league.

Isaiah Thomas was the one player who could be considered a superstar. Dumas is HOF but he wasn't a superstar. I don't think any of them were a top-10 player in the league.

The winner of that game was clearly the Referees.

This is the second game where I wasn't overly thrilled with the refs calls.

Quite frankly not that it mattered but I really didn't see the phantom elbow the T Thompson threw after the game was decided and I did see Green taunt him as he was walking over to the endline.

I'll stick by my original comments for now---GS has a problem without Iguodala.

Green for Cleveland brings defense and speed they do not have with Love--Love started out better than expected but he faded as the game wore on.

And Cleveland did better than expected on the offense boards because GS Green was pulled out of the paint to cover LeBron.

It was kinda a sloppy game.

Durant didn't play that well - he's actually looked off a few times this post season.

CLE had their chance in game-1, I think we'll see a better GS team in game-2.

"The winner of that game was clearly the Referees."
Yeah it had nothing to do with the Cavs player missing the free throw can could've put them a point ahead with a few seconds left, then JR Smith GETTING THE REBOUND AND DRIBBLING IT OUT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THEY HAD WON. But sure, blame it on the refs instead of the dumbass who was like 7 ft away from the basket but dribbled out to half court instead of taking a shot, because ya know, this is only the finals... it's not important to know the score when there are like 4 seconds left in the game... Right.

If there was going to be a blowout I expected it last night.

Originally I thought Game 2 would be closer than Game 1--not knowing Love's status until game time, Cavs being the older team after a tough physical series with Boston, being the away team with the time zone difference.......

Of course now its hard to say and how can it be closer than overtime.

This is just one persons opinion but the key game to me in this series is Game 4. I fully expect GS to win at home and the Cavs to pick up their first home Game (3) It's Game 4 that hinges how long the series goes.

I'm willing to be JR self medicated before the game and maybe at halftime.

In any event, even if he shot, there is no guarantee he would have made it. Granted, he had a better chance of making if he took the shot.

I wonder if Tristan Kardashian will get a suspension. You are not allowed to throw a closed fist and his was, although it was weak. He also hit Draymond in the face with the basketball before he threw his weak ass little hit, then as he is escorted off the court, taunts Draymond by telling him to meet him in the locker room (um, I'll take my W and go in my own locker room with my team, thanks weirdo) All of this occurred AFTER he was ejected. He should have walked his ass off the court then instead of intentionally causing unnecessary problems. And last I checked, it was Steph and Klay who were having words with LeBron and Tristan, and Livingston is the one he fouled... I think he went after Green because he only has 2 more techs this series till he's suspended, and Tristan maybe wanted a repeat of the 2016 situation.

Kevin Love should technically be suspended, too, as players are not allowed to leave the bench during a scuffle if they aren't in the game. Kevin was on the court. He was also on the court before the scuffle, though, so that is a lot easier to look past than Trashy Tristan. It's not like Kevin was instigating.

^Your not really partisan are you Nina, ;) the bullshit in the final seconds was a direct result of of the charging call being reversed to a blocking call truth be told even though a review is allowed in the final moments it has never been done before especially in a situation like this in a close final game, sorry Nina the refs caved to the crowd, and it is inexcusable.

25 - It is a relatively new rule, that might be why you haven't seen it happen until now. I also doubt you watch much of the NBA except the playoffs, so you can hate them all you want but as long as you are watching nba playoff basketball, you will see the Warriors for a while.

Partisan? Sure. The Warriors are my favorite team. Don't know how saying Tristan Kardashian should be suspended has anything to do with that. He broke league rules, plain and simple. He actually hit Draymond in the face. If Draymond had done what Tristan did, I'd be worried today that they would announce his suspension and surprised if they didn't give him one, because it is it warranted in that situation. And if Draymond had hit Tristan in the face twice (once with a ball, then with his hand), you'd be crying out that he should be suspended.

"In any event, even if he shot, there is no guarantee he would have made it. Granted, he had a better chance of making if he took the shot." Flagooner

So you're saying JR would have had a better chance at making the shot if he had actually... taken the shot?! Wow. My mind is blown. I need Wayne Gretzky to come explain this to me.

^ I can see there’s no middle ground with you the consensus among pro comentators, and all the former basketball players on ESPN, and other sources agrees with my POV, as far as only watching the NBA playoffs you are just making assumptions and you know what they say about assumptions, at this point I will stop debating you because nothing anyone says will matter anyway the damage is done

I am not making assumptions, aside from that I do not think you watch a lot of regular season NBA basketball.

As far as suspensions, that is not an assumption. It is in the rule book.
Snip:
Per league rules, "any player who throws a punch, whether it connects or not, has committed an unsportsmanlike act" and will be suspended for a minimum of one game.

Rules also state that "during an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be subject to suspension, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $50,000."

Tristan Kardashian should be suspended for at least one game. Maybe more, if this was a regular season game. Kevin Love should also be suspended per league rules, but since he was already on the court before the altercation, they might let that slide. Although he did start walking towards the altercation until a coach grabbed him. So, whatever.

I agree that Kardashian should not have been ejected for that foul (even though he basically admitted that he did it because he was pissed, but I don't think it was a flagrant 2.) That doesn't matter. You can't hit a ref just because he made a bad call, either. So even if the flagrant 2 gets reversed, Tristan Kardashian should be suspended. Kevin Love technically should, too, but I'll give him a pass because he was being unsportsmanlike or violent, and for what it's worth, he didn't jump off the bench to involve himself.

I learned these rules as a kid after Malice at the Palace happened.

---> "Cavs were robbed"

The end of game brain cramp by Smith with 4.5 seconds left was not his only one that contributed to Cavs loss. At end of 1st half when Durant pulled the rebound and passed to Curry with 2 seconds left on clock, instead of guarding Curry, Smith stupidly went for the steal and whiffed and left Curry unguarded and with 0.5 seconds left Curry made the 38-foot shot to tie it up. Big time blow it, as pointed out by Mark Jackson on the telecast.

I hope NBA doesn't suspend Thompson so that Cavs fans have nothing to bitch about.

@ Nina - " Tristan Kardashian ". Had to laugh out loud at that one. Can't imagine why any man would want to get himself into that circus. James Harden got out quickly.

Kevin Love wasn't* being unsportsmanlike or violent.

Lol yup. Tristan Kardashian and Kayne Kardashian.

ABC officiating expert Steve Javie was summoned to make a crucial call during Thursday’s telecast of the NBA Finals and he whiffed on it.

Or did he?

With 36 seconds remaining in regulation and the Warriors down 104-102, Golden State forward Kevin Durant drove the lane where he slammed into Cleveland’s LeBron James on his way to the basket.

Initially, the referees called Durant for a charge, but the play went under lengthy video review. That’s when the ABC crew called upon Javie, a retired NBA official, to dissect the play.

Said Javie, who officiated in the NBA from 1986 through 2011, “I do believe James was there prior to the upward motion of the shot.”

So it was a charge, right? No. The call on the floor was reversed to a block and Durant sank two free throws to tie the game.

It’s a call that undoubtedly will be argued over for days — especially in Cleveland — and one that left ABC analyst Mark Jackson perplexed.

“We have a great official reviewing the play and he tells us he sees it one way,” Jackson said, “and then the officials in the game see it totally differently.”

Do any of you watch the post game press conferences? We aren't going to mention LeBron leaving the room in his shorts suit, sunglasses, and alligator purse?

Yes, purse. Don't call it a duffel bag. That was a purse. I didn't get a good look at it, but it was about the size of a standard Birkin. It might have been a Birkin. Or Prada? Idk, but he was carrying a purse.

Lebron is 6-9, 260 lbs + of solid muscle. I don't have the nerve to make fun of him for carrying a purse. Anybody else wanna go up to him and call that a purse ?

I would. Lol.

He's a 6'9" 260+ lb man who carries a purse. Not only that, but you cannot tell me it wasn't hilarious that he stood up, pulled his shorts down cuz they were riding his thighs a little too high, put on his sunglasses, then grabbed his purse off the floor and sashayed out of the room like a well dressed diva with a nice alligator accessory on his arm.

When you're the GOAT you can get away with stuff like that.

It's funny how so many LeBron ass-lickers are saying "when you're [insert LeBron compliment], you can get away with stuff like that." ...so if a bench player were doing it, it wouldn't be ok? If a normal person were doing it, we could laugh about it but not when it's a powerful man? Lol ok. I burst out laughing when I saw it and can't stop watching it.

It was hilarious. It was like the Viola Davis gif... except funnier. It's the best moment LeBron has ever given me, along with him tweeting @ Trump and calling him a bum.

^ it's like how Barack Obama gets away with being married to a transvestite.

Some people just get away with things that others can't, whether they deserve it (LeBron is the GOAT) or not (BO is possibly the most damaging president this country has ever elected).

Now you're showing your craziness and lack of education. Michelle is, and has always been, a woman. Or do you want to see HER birth certificate, too? I swear some of y'all GOPers are so jealous of Michelle for being graceful, poised, and the most educated first lady of all time. You know Obama saved your economy. If you want to make psychotic, false statements, start your own thread for psychotic, unhinged folks. You're getting off-topic and insane. Guess I struck a nerve with LeBron calling your PenisPal a bum...

Michelle was a woman from birth? Skipped right by being a girl?

I do believe Michelle was born female, I have doubts about it's current gender. It looks like it has been taking high doses of testosterone and apparently regrets regrets that decision and resorts to cross dressing now.

So you're saying Michelle Obama was indeed born with female genitals, then took male testosterone hormones for some odd reason, and that makes her a transvestite currently? You admit that she was born a female. She dresses like a woman which precludes her from being a transvestite. Do you even know what the term actually means? How does Michelle cross dress as a woman when she IS a woman? That's not cross dressing, you fucking idiot. You are psychotic. The altRight has really diseased your mind. And you can't even decide whether or not you want to call her a "transvestite," or an "it." You are so classy. Too bad Michelle has accomplished way more than you ever will in your pathetic little post-midlife. End your crazy attempt at political remarks when you're really just tearing people down because you're obsessed with them. Go make your own discussion about it you sick freak. Take your poisoned mind with ya.

Was a woman.

Actually I meant transsexual transvestite. Born female, changed sexes to male (it is obvious that it is now male), and now cross-dresses as a female.

She is now a transexual transvestite?

Transexuals are people who were born as one gender, but identify as another. Michelle was born female, and identifies as such. She has never identified as a man. I've implored you to start your own topic, yet you keep going. I'll continue for a while, that way everyone can continue to see what a completely altRight brainwashed nutcase you are. If your mind wasn't infected, you'd be embarrassed by your absurd comments.

Can anyone tell me how we got from LeBrons Hermès Murse to Michelle Obama who is a nice lady, oh I see flagooner was bored so he decided to channel his inner Trump, and be a rude old man. This isn’t politically incorrect this is basically boredom combined with stupidity.

This discussion's barely a day old and has already exploded and veered into a proverbial train wreck. At least the old playoff discussion managed to stay relevant for its entire monstrous run. Anyway to get back to Nina's original digression, people are treated unequally all the time for numerous reasons. Doesn't make it right, but you would be naive to think it doesn't happen.

Case in point, superstar calls and homecourt advantage. Why should the home team get more calls in their favor? It's not really fair, but it's expected and all the more reason to do better in the regular season, or in MLB, win the freaking All-Star game. If a rookie had run into Lebron James on the last "blocking foul", he would have definitely been called for a charge and no review would have been done. But the game is in Oakland and it was another superstar in Durant running into LeBron.

Since it was the last one or two minutes of the game and there was just a slight question if LeBron may have been in the restricted area, it ended up going to review where it became a 50/50 call regardless of the players involved. I guarantee if it was Looney (the only non star on GS that starts), no way that charge gets overturned and probably not even reviewed.

Okay.

You are right. I am not up on the specifics when describing the freaks in the LGBTQZYXW community.

My comments about Michelle Obama were obviously hyperbole. I didn't think anyone of Nina's claimed intelligence and thick skin would take it seriously and react so defensively about it. I know that Michelle probably never had a sex change. I apologize for calling it a transvestite and a transsexual. I do see that people who may be unsure of its veracity may get all stirred up about it.

It is funny how easily one can get reactions from Obama ass-lickers, even when they have been educated at the finest community colleges that Michigan has to offer. Sorry Nina.

I'll backtrack and make my assertion of why LeBron gets away with carrying a purse using an example nobody can disagree with nor get defensive about.

Some guys can just get away with things that others can't. It's like how Barack Obama gets away with being married to someone that looks like a man.

^What was that line from Macbeth, about stirring the pot, something about cauldron boil and bubble. haha

Moi???

^c’est bon ;)

Actually to be fair to flagooner how did we get from the comment I made citing references from NBA refs and ex players who are network announcers questioning the charge call to LeBron's bag?

Not that I agree 100% with flagooner.........in my life time ( and his since he admits to being older than dirt) the worst President sat in the office from 1977-1980............that is when he wasn't fighting off killer rabbits.

To get the conversation back on track just about everything have read in the past 24 hours supports that the refs flat out messed up the end of the game....and despite JR's brain fart it should have never gotten to that point.

Oh, are we getting back to basketball here now ? My thought at this point is the Cavaliers blew their only shot. The Warriors didn't respect them in Game 1 and just assumed they could turn it on when they wanted. Because of some questionable calls, the Warriors did pull it out in OT. But now the Warriors know they need to bring their A game to the arena. So Game 2 will not be close. I fully expect a 40 point blow out.

And in my opinion, when you are worth $300MM, you can wear what ever you damn well want.

GSW won't respect the Cavs in any of the games. And they won't have to. The series, as a whole, still won't be competitive. Cavs will win one game, max.

I don't know if I agree with that, about the warriors not respecting the Cavs, you know at the presser after the game Durant's body language suggested that he knew he got away with something big. My guess is that this will get the Cavaliers fired up wont be surprised, if they (the Cavs) win game two and three, just a guess, but we'll soon see what happens.

Supposedly this was the exchange between Curry and James under the basket:

so Steph said "you couldn't let me have that one?" jokingly to LeBron after LeBron pinned his shot at the end of the game, and LeBron responded "get the f*ck out of my face."

LeBron was pissed. I can understand that.

Twentyfive - I, too, thought his bag was Hermès, but I wasn't sure if it was a Birkin. I just knew it was an expensive alligator purse. I found out what it is, it's a Thom Browne and was 40K. He should've just gotten a damn Birkin if he's gonna spend that much. That way, if people made fun of him for calling it a purse, he could say, "it's not a purse, it's a BIRKIN," throw it over his shoulder, and catwalk away.

"And in my opinion, when you are worth $300MM, you can wear what ever you damn well want."
In my opinion, if you're worth $3 you can wear whatever you want within your financial capacity. If you're worth $300 billion you can wear whatever you want. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna laugh. It gave me Joey from Friends vibes, in the episode where he gets a purse... But funnier, because LeBron was channeling his inner Viola Davis. Lmao. Don't know why some people think wealthy people should be immune to the same opinions than "normal" folks.

Then again I've been around multimillionaires countless times throughout my life so maybe that's why they don't seem like supreme emperors to me. I never have thought being richer makes a person better than another.

It's like when Westbrook came to the press conference in his own "fashionable" outfit of a ripped shirt. Even the NBAtv press conference announcer literally said, "whoa... whoa..." and was lost for words when he saw him and commentators were laughing about it. Westbrook is also rich as fuck. We're allowed to have opinions about multimillionaires. They are humans, not gods.

Flagooner - funny I called you a LeBron ass-licker and you come right back and call me one? Original. You have such little self awareness that you don't understand, you're the one who got defensive by going way OT and talking about Michelle's sex just because I said one of my favorite LeBron moments was when he called Trump a bum on Twitter. Get thicker skin, and don't back peddle. If you were truly being hyperbolic, you wouldn't continue to call her an "it." You can call me thin skinned all you want, but so many of you guys on this board have tried to come for me and pick fights with me and I've always shut every single one of you down.

And please stop lying and saying I go to community college. I think the ones of you here who keep insisting that (just you and a couple of salty others) are just trying to make me admit what real University I went to which I find very creepy and stalkerish.

So do you guys even watch the post game interviews? I always extend the record time on the game for post game coverage and record NBA TV's post game as well. I like watching post game conferences. And twentyfive, maybe LeBron will have a Birkin next time. :) ...or 6 inch Giuseppe Coline Wings. Then we can be matching, depending on what color his are.

^I thought it was an Hermes, but I've never seen a Thom Brown bag before, and I find murses to be extremely funny no matter who's carrying one, if its a he, they're right up there with manbuns and guys wearing earrings in both ears. lol

^BTW the Birkins I've seen are much more than $40.000.00

Twentyfive - The plain leather ones can start at about 10k, maybe a little more. The alligator/crocodile ones are probably over 50k. They're just in such high demand that often you cannot just walk into a Hermès store and buy one.

And yeah manbuns are generally just kind of annoying in a funny way. How about a manbun with a purse and earrings? Lol.

^Ive seen them in some high end pawn shops for over $90K, and here in my neck of the woods the Hermès store has a few in the window but my understanding was they are sold and none are available until sometime in 2019

Nina – this will be my last post on this tangent you led us on. Quite honestly it’s a bit boring baiting the hook when it is so easy to get the fish to bite. I usually enjoy a war of wits, but not so much when it’s against an unarmed opponent.

Here are responses to some of your comments:

“…you come right back and call me one? Original.”
I wasn’t looking for originality in using the term ass-licker. I was merely pointing out that your obsession with the Obamas mimics the obsession you claim others have with LeBron. You proved my point by reacting as you did, showing your need to defend Barack’s beastly spouse. I’ll expand on that a little later.

“Get thicker skin and don’t back peddle”
First, it’s backpedal and not back peddle. Your community college education should have taught you that or were you too stoned to learn anything when attending class?
Second, the ability to recognize when one has been mistaken and thus retreat is actually a sign of maturity. A stubborn defiance and refusal to self-reflect is a sign of juvenile naivety and a thin-skinned personality. Hopefully one of these days you will grow up.

“I’ve always shut every single one of you down.”
I will just laugh at that one. No need to point out the many examples that show that statement to be delusional.

“…trying to make me admit what real University I went to which I find very creepy and stalkerish.”
No. Maybe you are better educated than I or just more paranoid because I can't connect the dots between saying that someone went to community college and stalking them. You may have dropped out of high school and never went to a community college for all I know. You may be a Rhodes Scholar. I don’t know and really don’t care. The only reason I ever bring it up is because it pushes your buttons and you react so predictably. Flagooner is to NinaBambina as Geppetto is to Pinocchio.

Going back a little… I was a bit easy on you concerning your earlier responses to my Michael Obama takes.

“…jealous of Michelle for being graceful, poised, and the most educated first lady of all time.”
I won't argue with the well educated claim, but I do not agree with the other two claims. I notice how you use the term educated instead of smart however. Just because one attends classes does not mean that they process the information that is presented to them. Our brains don’t work by osmosis.

More than 97% of Harvard grads pass the bar exam on the first try. Michael did not. This doesn’t mean that 97 percent of the graduates were smarter, but it does point in that direction. I won’t accept the common excuse of racial bias on standardized tests either. While it may be present in some tests, I do not believe it to be so with the bar exam.

But just getting into Harvard Law School means you are smart is another argument. Harvard's legacy and Affirmative Action policies refute that argument. It is why I feel that Affirmative Action actually serves as a weight for high achieving minorities. I’m not saying that Michael got into Harvard due to Affirmative Action. I don’t know. I am saying that the AA program provides ammunition for people to use in saying that specific minorities do not attain achievements based on merit.

I will now allow you the last word, as I know you are incapable of restraining yourself. So go back to your room and toke up on your blunt to ease the emotional pain you inflict on yourself from taking so many random cocks bareback up your pooper every night in VIP while drafting your next response that will “shut me down.”

flag - You definitely have an unusual way of "flirting" with a girl !!!!

Who wins tonight?

Warriors.

"Nina – this will be my last post on this tangent you led us on. Quite honestly it’s a bit boring baiting the hook when it is so easy to get the fish to bite. I usually enjoy a war of wits, but not so much when it’s against an unarmed opponent."

Dude what the fuck are you even talking about with your "war of wits" bullshit, ya damn psycho? I was talking about LeBron and made a comment about him tweet Trump and you then start talking about Obama and go on claiming Michelle is a "transvestite transexual." You brought Obama and Michelle into this and went on a quite ridiculous posting rampage when I told you (I believe more than once) to take your craziness to a new thread. Talk about going off on a tangent, you've written a lengthy post that I'm now responging to.

In fact, half that lengthy post included STILL talking about Michelle. You have an obsession. And she didn't just go to Harvard, her undergrad was at Princeton. Would you like to say more about her education?

If the only reason you say I go to community college is to press my buttons, there is no "war of wits," you just sound like a stupid, miserable old grouch because I'm a stripper who actually does things in her life and you're a pathetic old man arguing with a woman in her 20s. And I already told you why I think the community college thing is unsettling. I think you want me to get so rattled that I admit what University I went to or will be going to. I keep that private for a reason. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but as a dancer, some men are stalkers, and you put forth serious 'red flags' when you argue with me and then make it super personal. Why are you worried about me and my life so goddamn much, anyway?

You're like the perfect illustration of the old grump who yells at kids in the neighborhood (even if they're NOT on your lawn), and I can tell something about me makes you insecure about yourself. I also am gonna go out on a limb here and say no one has told you they love you in a while.

"Maybe you are better educated than I"
Maybe. I'm smarter, and you're a pathetic, small man. I am certainly greater than.

Shrug
Anyway, can't wait till 8. :)

No suspension for Tristan Kardashian. A pocket change 25k fine.

I'm just going to try this...

media1.tenor.com

Lol!

That just mean;)

Damn shame the Rockets lost Chris Paul, they should be the ones in the Finals. They were up 3 games to 2 when CP3 went down.

It’s tough to root for any of these two teams for me. I absoutely hate LeBron, and I hate Draymond and those front running Warriors. I still can’t believe Durant joined a team that won the most games in the history of the regular season the year before.

This game doesn't have the same vibe as game 1, but I have to say GS is getting away with fouls very early, seems like the refs are looking to create an incident.

^ I was about to say the same-thing - feels like a regular-season game

LeBron looks a bit spent - looks like he tried for a knockout punch in game-1 and seems a big gassed in game-2

Series isn't over yet. But right now, my vote would be Steph Curry for Finals MVP.

I think LeBron is both tired and frustrated,

Harden for MVP

I think LeBron is saying "fuck-it - i'm out of here (Cleveland)"

LeBron has to be almost un-human for Cleveland to have a chance

"Harden for MVP"
This is a finals discussion... everyone who's been paying attention to the regular season knows Harden is obviously league MVP this year.

Steph Curry sets the record for most 3s (9) in an NBA finals game. I think he will be finals MVP. I hope so.

If LeBron leaves Cleveland after this, his going to LAL.

The Warriors' fans are having a great ole time outside the arena - seems people in the San Fran area know how to party

@Nina I heard on Bleacher Report that he was interested in returning to Miami.

After reading the comments about game 2 - I agree with Papi - Lebron appears to be a bit spent - and he needs to clone himself for the Cavs to have a chance.

Last night really didn't change my mind about anything in terms of Game 4 being the key on if this series is over quickly or not.

twentyfive did you see the "official" NBA report about the quality of officiating in Game 1?

Curry was unreal last night. Regardless if I am a Cavs fan or not I respect his level of play--same with KT.

I still don't thing LeBron is going anywhere but only time will tell.

@warrenboy I did not do you have a link I am curious because I thought the officiating has been piss poor not just game 1 but last night as well.

deadspin.com

And I still think because I was right on top of the floor the piss poor calls extend back to Game 6 of the Celtics series.

^Basicaly the NBAs own assessment was that there was an imbalance against the Cavs the rest is just CYA language. I saw it the same way, GS got help, even the NBA agrees with that.

I grew up in southern California and followed the Lakers growing up, but stopped following basketball. I don't know nearly as much as the other posters here, but Curry's 3-pointers this year sure seems amazing. Take a look at the graph in this article. Statistically, 402 3-pointers is the equivalent of 103 home runs for a baseball player:

nytimes.com

Curry's threes have always been amazing. He is part alien.

If you want to see more, YouTube some Curry shots in your free time. He's been doing this for years and it's amazing to watch.

Game 3 in Cleveland tonight. After Game 2, Lebron looked tired and frustrated. But being at home should give them new hope. The crowd will be into it so I fully expect the Cavaliers to give them a game tonight. In the end, the Warrior's fire power will still be too much. But I think tonights game will be close.

I expect the Cavs will win tonight in a close game...........admittedly I have been wrong more than once during this years playoffs. The next game is the one I feel the Cavs are at risk of losing.

GS takes one of two and heads back home and it's over.

I think it has little to do with how CLE plays. It seems that if GSW comes out to play they will win handily. If not, CLE has a chance because they have the GOAT.

Who gets Finals MVP?

A. Curry
B. The GOAT in a losing effort
C. Klay
D. JR

The way I see it if the Cavs win tonight it’s game on for Saturday if they lose GS sweeps.

E--the officials who attended the Helen Keller school of officiating.

^I dunno about that Helen Keller would’ve gotten it right ;)

Steph will get MVP.

Yeah, if the Warriors win today it will be looking like a sweep. Cavs will be back at home and they'll all be fired up. So will their fans. It's going to be a mental game. High emotion.

Iguodala might be returning tonight.

Who’s watching?

CLE coming out with a lot of energy, let's see if they can maintain it for the game

Flagooner. I think you were trying to be humorous with your finals MVP list, since you listed LeBron in a losing effort as well as JR, but you also listed Steph as #1 which is most likely to happen. Why not include KD? I think Steph is first in the running (despite this off game), and KD is a clear second.

I think Klay has been more important the first 2 games.

@Nina
You obviously have more interest and have watched this series closer than I so I will defer to your choice of KD over Klay.

KD has certainly been the man tonight.

Klay is one of the best stop-and-shoot players I've ever see (and I watch footage from before I was even born), and he's very focused, a good defender, and fundamentally sound. He holds NBA record for most pts in a quarter (37), he can easily heat up as can KD and Steph. But KD and Steph are better at creating their own shots. I think all of them are three of the best shooters in NBA history.

However, that right there, just now, was a terrible fumble by KD. And usually, I am very confident when the basketball is in his capable hands. That was just dumb.

Curry is struggling - watch him hit the game-winner 3-ptr LOL

Went to Dean's Gold tonight. Thought I could just watch the game there. I got my attention diverted. Now that I"m out of money, how's it going ?

KD hit the same dagger shot as he did in game 3 last year. Lmao.

Papi_chulo he did hit an important one, but tonight belonged to KD.

Somebody needs to get a broom. Looks like Golden State is going to need it after the next game.

These days it takes 3-great players to win a championship - without Kyrie it's too much for LeBron to overcome.

Well Kyrie wouldn't have left if it weren't for LeBron, so...

And he traded away Isiah Thomas #2, so...

Isaiah Thomas. Isiah Thomas is the fool with sour grapes that thinks that LeBron is a "much better" player than Jordan...

Yeah my mom dated the original Isiah before I was born. He was an asshole.

So when do we start talking about where Lebron is going to play next year. I think it depends on whether he wants to win another championship or does he just want to make the max dollars. The Cavaliers can give him the biggest contract. The Lakers is an interesting selection that has been brought up recently. Imagine the endorsement and appearance money he could get if he's in LA.

Cavs, Lakers, or Houston. Houston won't be a good fit. Cavs, he still has a chance to make it to the finals and lose again (although I think a healthy Boston will make it). Lakers, he has good young talent but will have to wait a couple years for them to be great.

LeBron is going to Europe next year.

I fell asleep right after the game last night I should say this is the first time I’ve seen Durant live up to the hype about him while playing against LeBron, it looks like a sweep is coming
My feeling is LeBron stays in Cleveland, but I think Miami would be willing to spend the most to get him if they are able to work around their cap.

^ I heard he was going to Duke to finally experience what it would have been to play in college

Pap-_Chulo he can experience college level basketball when he plays against the Phoenix Suns.......

For the reasons I mentioned before I suspect LeBron will stay in Cleveland.

"Isiah Thomas is the fool with sour grapes that thinks LeBron is a 'much better' player than Jordan."

TheDirkDiggler - Isiah will always have a grudge against Jordan because he thinks Jordan is the main reason he was snubbed from being a member of the Dream Team, which Isiah obviously should have been on. There were a couple other players who also said they wouldn't play on the team if Isiah did because of his "poor sportsmanship," but I'm sure Jordan was the muscle behind the whole thing.

Although, many of the bad boys (who didn't end up playing with him) probably don't care much for Jordan.

I was watching a recent interview of Bill Laimbeer who's coaching a new WNBA team. The interview was probably around the beginning of the playoffs. They asked him a couple questions about the NBA. He has said before that he thinks LeBron is better than Jordan. He said it's because LeBron is bigger, faster, and stronger than Jordan and makes the people around him better. I usually agree with Laimbeer but this I didn't agree with. However, Laimbeer is typically pretty blunt with a high basketball IQ so he might actually think that instead of just hating on Jordan because of the past. Although Bill also predicted the Rockets would win the entire thing, so...

I wonder what Steve Kerr's answer would be? He was on Mike's team for some years.

And speaking of Bill Laimbeer, the people complaining about Draymond Green now obviously were shitting on themselves when they watched the bad boys play, especially Laimbeer. You really had to earn your points back then.

I agree with Laimbeer and I don’t hate Jordan, loved watching him, one of the most explosive players ever, he was my favorite to watch after Dr J.

TheDirkDiggler - although I DO think that Isiah Thomas is (or at least was) an asshole.

-he dated my mom, planned a trip, then went and married someone else on the weekend that their trip was supposed to be.

-months later, he saw her, and tried to get back with her despite being a newlywed. She proudly turned him down and said, "sorry, I have a pageant to go to!" He followed her to the pageant and watched. Idiot.

-he was best friends with Magic. (My mom stayed in the Isiah Room at Magic's mansion). Then as soon as Magic announced he had HIV, the one NBA player who Magic thought would be there for him (Isiah) completely turned on him, effectively throwing their friendship in the garbage. Not only did he refuse to associate with his former best bud, but he started questioning Magic's sexuality and saying a lot of hurtful things. I can't imagine being in Magic's position, and then have my best friend of all people make me feel alone and alienated while I'm fearing for my life. Not to mention, the medication back then wasn't nearly as advanced as today, where people are living full, healthy lives with HIV. This was in 91, when it was still a 'death sentence.' How can you turn your back on your friend who was just diagnosed with something that might kill him? That is so shitty.

They just started rekindling their friendship (hopefully it was real and not just for the cameras). It was a segment that was on TV maybe late last year or early this year, and they sat down and talked about everything and you could tell there was a lot of pain behind it all. I think they both ended up crying.

Lebron will take in Ohio because I get the feeling he wants to raise his kids in this area: Bath Township/Akron. I think that was really part of why he came back from Miami (that and the latitude he gets with the team coaching and management).

At this point we would have to win 4 in a row to take this thing. Not happening. But I'm just happy for him, the team, and the town that the Cavs (or any CLE sports team) got this far. I know the Lombardi ethos is that "winning isn't everything .. it's the only thing." But serious we get the short end of the stick so much I'm grateful for the opportunity for the Finals and the shot at a championship, even if it didn't work out. Thank you, Cavs. Thank you, Lebron.

"I get the feeling he wants to raise his kids in this area: Bath Township/Akron."

Then he should stop buying huge, secluded family homes in LA. ;) I saw the recent one he bought... that's when I started to wonder if he is going to LA. That didn't look like a vacation home.

I don’t keep up on those things. But that does seem to indicate a move in that direction. If so, best of luck to him and his family.

I wanted to stay out of this until it was decided and although the Cavs made history coming back from being down 3-1 2 years ago I don't see them recovering from being down 3-0.
Early in the playoffs it looked they wouldn't make it past the first round against the Pacers so everything since then has been a bonus. Things might possibly have been different had the officials been more accurate in game 1 or if JR didn't make such a bonehead play but it is what it is.
Considering all the turmoil they suffered through since the end of the previous season and throughout this season they had a good run and did better than I ever expected they would do.

I'm a Celtics can and really wish they would have made it to the finals. I don't think that the outcome would be much different but it would be much more entertaining.

If we're still talking about Isiah Thomas, he didn't definitely deserve to be on the Dream Team. He had already been declining a bit due to injuries and was planning on retiring less than two years later. This was before his career ending achilles tendon injury. Stockton and Magic (even retired) were superior PGs at the time and Scottie Pippen (and Larry Bird to a degree) could also run the point. Heck, Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson were probably better playing PGs at the time. Thomas hadn't made an ALL-NBA team (which had expanded to three teams in 89) in over 5 years at that point. Combined with Jordan and Drexler who had both gotten through a Finals and were also first team selections that year, there were enough worthy guards on that team.

Maybe you move Chris Mullin off, but he was more of a small forward (he had just made the All-NBA first team as a forward). There was some "rule" or condition that they had to have at least one college player, so Christian Laettner stole a spot from a worthy NBA "dreamer". Should have gone to Shaq instead although he was technically an NBA player since he had just been drafted, but Laettner was in the same draft.

As for Laimbeer's comments. LeBron is definitely bigger and stronger when you consider his size, but Jordan was faster in his prime than LeBron and one of the most athletic players ever. He was also very strong for his size; his listed height and weight (6' 6", 216) were essentially the same as Iguodala (6' 6", 215) and Iggy is considered one of the best LeBron defenders today next to Leonard. Took physical beatings for much of his career (and could dish out pain himself) and missed very few games. He couldn't bulldoze his way through the paint (and LeBron wouldn't either in the 80s and 90s with all the quality bigs playing), but had a far superior post game. He was also a far better defender winning DPOY and earning 9 consecutive ALL-Defensive first team selections. LeBron is a better passer and a marginally better rebounder although he's playing from the forward position; i'll give him that.

I've seen a few clips of Kerr comparing the two, and while being diplomatic, he seems to favor Jordan, although he then says than Kobe is closer to Jordan and LeBron is a different player than Jordan. He's never been asked to compare Duncan and LeBron which i think is a more fair comparison or even Kobe and LeBron and now Durant and LeBron.

LeBron compared the Warriors to the Patriots. Well, i compare LeBron to Peyton Manning. The best career numbers all time in the regular season, but underwhelming in the playoffs. I would compare Brady more to Kobe and Jordan to Joe Montana. Not a completely accurate analogy, but close. Brady has more titles than Peyton, but a few losses as well. Montana is perfect in the Super Bowl. Almost no one says that Peyton is better than the other two when all is considered.

I’d compare style if it were possible but very few other than maybe Shaq or Willis Reed were as strong and able to power right over opponents the way LEBron does

Durant is getting the MVP, he’s averaging 31 pts a game in the Finals compared to Curry’s 24 pts a game, and he’s shooting a better field goal percentage than Curry.

I didn't know Reed was that type of player, and he played again Wilt, Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Kareem, Lanier, Cowens, McCadoo, Wes Unseld and Elvin Hayes, being a good bit smaller than many of them. Dan Issel and Artis Gilmore were in the ABA at the time and Walton and Malone would enter the league right after he retired.

Shaq wasn't especially dominant until after 2000 when every other great center was either retired or declining (Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Sabonis, Parish, Divac, Daugherty, Smits), and while Yao and Dwight were developing. Ben Wallace might have been the best center left during those years and he had no offense. And then maybe Brad Miller or Ilgauskas? Kind of like how there is no great small forward left except Durant and Kawhi if he can get healthy. Paul George, a noticeable drop off, is probably the next best one, followed by the Greek freak, and Gordon Hayward is injured and overrated.
Carmelo, Vince Carter and Joe Johnson are too old and Pierce, T-Mac, Shawn Marion, Michael Finley and Metta World Peace are long retired.

Outside of Demarcus Cousins and the young and developing Embiid, Towns and Gobert, there are no great centers left either. The number of great power forwards is even more scarce. After Anthony Davis (who is more like a 7 foot guard like Durant), Draymond Green and Blake Griffin might be the two best in the game today. Then the unicorn, Porzingis if he recovers from his torn ACL, followed by Aldridge, Kevin Love, Millsap and Ibaka?

Basically, this is the weakest i've ever seen the front court in the NBA since i can remember. Even shooting guards and wings aren't that impressive. Klay Thompson might be the best shooting guard today (Harden plays more like a point, otherwise he would be the best). Next would be maybe Demar Derozen? Jimmy Butler, Bradley Beal? Only the PG position is rich in great talent today. So the high level talent just seems more diluted today. And it seems that 4 of the top 20 players (so high All-Stars instead of marginal ones) in the league are on the Warriors and another top 50 player in Iguodala. I feel this can't but help make the game (not the Finals though) just a little easier for LeBron. That and the changed rules.

^ That was responding to twentyfive...

^I get that and certainly agree with a lot of that, but if you read I said it’s very hard to compare style especially from one era to the next, let’s keep in mind this is a different game than it was just 20 years ago, that’s probably why it is so popular, because it does evolve and not remain static.

Reed is like JFK.

Neither were very good. Reed gets extra credit for hobbling onto the court in the finals and JFK for getting brained on video.

Yeah, you can't genuinely compare eras. I'm just a little amused when analysts (and fans) often say the game has never been better. Yes, certain skills have improved (shooting, switching defenses), but where are all the transcendent players? If you were to make a Dream Team (and limited it to only American players like the original Dream Team as Olajuwon wasn't on that team) during LeBron's best seasons, what would that team look like? The Golden State Warriors plus LeBron? The baby Oklahoma City Thunder (but with 3 league MVPs) and LeBron? Some combination of the two and some of the old Heat players as well? Now how would those teams compare to the original Dream Team? These are all rhetorical questions.

People make fun of Wilt for beating on smaller white guys (not all true) during a time when there were only 8 or so teams (that was true), but Shaq didn't really start beating on teams either until all the good bigs were gone. No one could make him work on the other end. Yet those two were still truly dominant and would dominate any era, just not to the degree they did during their primes.

LeBron has been arguably (with variable levels of argument) the best player in the league for almost 10 years now as all the previous greats declined or left the game (Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, KG, Pierce). In that time period, who was the next best player? Maybe Durant and he's in a different conference. Only sees LeBron twice a year and if they meet in the Finals. Beyond that, there really isn't much discussion of other players. Often when we talk about best ever in various sports (golf, tennis, baseball, football, the other football), not only do we compare eras, but also the competition during the time. When a player has no true rival, he often dominates the sport. It's not his fault, but causes a prisoner of the moment situation.

Now there's a new rising crop of great players (Westbrook, Curry, Harden, Embiid, Kawhi, Davis) who are going to peak during LeBron's inevitable decline. Funny how that works...

Dirkdiggler knows his basketball, I’m impressed.

How can anyone even think about sports when there are strip clubs?

How about if you post this kind of stuff on Stripper Web?

SJG

Fishsticks is a douche.

Dirkthediggler - you made a lot of great points, but talent wise, Isiah should have been on the Dream Team. Stockton over him is laughable and I'm sure you know that it was a big deal that he was left off the team back then, after originally being someone who most fans thought would clearly make it. Sorry but even if I think he's an ass, Isiah > Stockton. People can argue, but please also show me why Bill Laimbeer is not I'm the HOF. I know exactly why.

Wilt is, IMO, in his own league. Um, 100 points in a game? Could bench like 550 lbs? I will always regard him as one of the greatest.

Nina - Comparing Isiah Thomas and John Stockton. I agree that on per player performance, Thomas > Stockton. But when putting together a team, especially one full of superstars, I would rather have Stockton over Thomas. Stockton was a much better distributor of the ball. Thomas tended to dribble too much. Stockton would get the ball to the playmakers. If I'm building a winner, then I want Stockton. Now I do know that Isiah won two championships and Stockton had zero. But the Pistons played during a time when it was legal to physically assault your opponent .

On Wilt. Hard to argue against that guy. But in that era, I would go with Bill Russell. Lots of championship banners in Boston because of him.

Stockton has probably an unbreakable record for both assists and steals. Some will argue that it's harder to get steals now, although assists seem to be credited more easily. He also has 5 All-Defensive team selections (no first teams). If he was black, he'd be like an ironman version of Chris Paul, with much better health/longevity, better vision/passing, similar defensive skills, similar flopping, similar basketball IQ, a little dirtier, a little more unselfish, a little better shooting, worse rebounding, less explosive (although Paul isn't anywhere near what he used to be) and worse at driving/handling and iso.

Combined with his body of work, he's better than Isiah who never made any All-Defensive team despite being on the Pistons with Rodman and Dumars, and gets more out of his teammates as well as having better basketball IQ. Interestingly, Stockton had Isiah present him at the HOF, so there was a mutual respect between the two, and Gary Payton considered Stockton to be the most difficult assignment to guard, period.

Oh, and boxing is another sport where people like to endlessly compare different eras, not that this discussion needs to digress any further...

As for why Laimbeer is not in the Hall? There have been better players (and coaches) that have not made the Hall. Heck, it took Artis Gilmore more than 15 years (after eligibility) to make the Hall when he should have gotten in the first few year, in terms of NBA (and ABA) centers to play the game. Bernard King waited a similar amount of time. FWIW, basketball reference (the bible in terms of player stats) has Laimbeer's probability of making the Hall at 26.1%. Players with lower percentages have made it and players with higher percentages are still waiting. He can wait a few more years or decades even. The Hall is largely political though...

Dirk, you know exactly why Laimbeer isn't in the HOF --- you basically just said it. It's because it is political, and people don't like him. Simple. Look at other Pistons HOFers and look and Laimbeer. Great defensive player (Pistons leading rebounder till this day) and was a big who could shoot threes. Today, not uncommon. Back then, it was. He could spread the court. He helped change the game in that capacity. He was polarizing but effective. He deserves the HOF no doubt.

I'd like to see Stockton lead his team through the finals on one leg... Oops he would never. Isiah was a dog, but he would bang with the rest of them. Thomas > Stockton. We've made that clear so please don't pretend there were not "political" reasons why he was kept off the Dream Team that he undoubtedly should have been on.

Oh and you can take some of Stockton's assist creds and slide them over to the mailman.

Okay, so you think Stockton is overrated and Thomas underrated. I think Stockton is a bit underrated (i consider him a top 5, even a top 3 PG all time, although this new breed of PGs is special) and Thomas a bit overrated. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

As for Thomas playing on one leg in two games, if you're playing, no one cares if you're hurt. No one is completely healthy in the Finals, anyway. They still lost those games despite having a loaded team and a 3-2 lead. Klay Thompson is still playing on a high ankle sprain (similar injury as Isiah Thomas). They won those games. Curry played injured the year they lost with a 3-1 lead and isn't healthy again right now. Injuries are part of the game. If you're playing, no one is going to feel sorry, but the results still count. Isiah lost. Stockton also played well in his Finals appearances. LeBron is going to lose too but no one remembers losing efforts.

And why do you even need someone to "lead" a team on one leg on the Dream Team? The Dream Team is all about the ultimate "team", not hero ball. Playmakers are way more important that scorers. Anyone on that team can score (Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Bird, Drexler, etc.). That's what makes the "death" lineup on Golden State so effective. Everyone can make plays for themselves or other players.

Yes, there are a lot of politics in the Hall. Yao Ming was a great center and worthy of the Hall for all his work in basketball. But he didn't deserve to be first ballot despite having his career cut short in or even before his prime by devastating injuries. He went in right away because he was considered an ambassador of the game and the way he conducted himself on and off the court.

Drazen Petrovic is another example. If he wasn't tragically killed in an accident, there is no way he makes the Hall base on two very good, but not especially great seasons, even if he could have had a HOF career had he lived. He was that special of a shooter/scorer. Laimbeer doesn't "deserve" anything at this point. Every year there are players just as deserving if not more so that don't get selected to the Hall. Not everyone worthy can get in.

But the All-NBA teams aren't generally considered political even if they are picked by the press, requiring some consensus. Stockton made the second team the year before and after the Dream Team. Thomas made the second team in 1987 and not a single selection after that despite a third team being added in 1989. The other guards on the first team right before the Dream Team was selected were Jordan and Drexler.

Magic and Bird were somewhat political selections with Magic coming out of retirement (but it was freaking Magic) and Bird contemplating retirement after an injury plagued season (which he did retire after that season). He did make the second team as late as 1990, so the only forward that was possibly snubbed was Dominique Wilkins as the other forwards (Malone, Pippen, Barkley, and even Mullin) on the Dream Team were perennial All-NBA selections at that time.

Picking Isiah at that time would have been political in his favor, choosing him for his past accomplishments and not what he was capable of in the present. At that snapshot in time (and i can remember the original Dream Team), Stockton was the superior PG. The comparative stat lines for that season weren't even close. Stockton: 15.8 ppg on 11.5 shots and 48% shooting, 41% from 3, 84% from the line, 13.7 assists to 3.5 turnovers, 3.3 rebounds, 3.0 steals, .3 blocks, and PER of 22.8 compared to Thomas: 18.5 ppg on 16.2 shots and 45% shooting, 29% from the 3, 77% from the line, 7.2 assists to 3.2 turnovers, 3.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals, .2 blocks and a PER of 16.0 (15.0 is the league average). So only a few more points from less efficient scoring and everything else outside of turnovers (but a way worse assist to turnover ratio) was worse and some stats about half as much (steals and assists, the all time leader at both).

Stockton also made the All-NBA and All-Defensive second teams that season. Thomas, nothing. Thomas did make the All-Star team (and that is definitely political) that year, but all the best PGs were on the west (Stockton, Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Payton) compared to just Thomas and Mark Price in the east.

And how does having Karl Malone on your team ensure being able to get 13 to 14+ assists per game for several consecutive years? So should Scottie Pippen have gotten 15 assists per game because he played with Jordan, an even superior scorer? To be fair, the triangle offense tends to prevent gaudy assist numbers, but Thomas had even more scoring options on his team than Stockton with Dumars, Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, Laimbeer, Mahorn and even Adrian Dantley at one point. No, i don't think there is anything clear about Thomas being better than Stockton, especially during that time.

Wow, i probably should have addressed her points separately, Isiah vs Stockton, playing hurt in the Finals, Laimbeer not being in the Hall and Malone getting credit for Stockton's assists. Oh well. At least i added a little bit about the current Finals going on...

1. The only way Laimbeer would have been able to get in the HOF is because it is so watered down.

2. Stockton was probably the dirtiest player in the league, and that includes the Bad Boys, and most overrated. The Utah scorekeeperboosted his stats. He averaged more than 5 more apg at home than on the road.

3. Isaiah was an ass but a tough SOB. Still, the only player he could have replaced to make the Dream Team better was Christian Laettner.

4. I hate that we ever created the Dream Team and it is just wrong that we field an olympic team of NBA stars. So many people rag on today's players for moving to create super teams, but they applaud the Dream Team. Seems ironic and hypocritical to me.

What happens tonight ? Do the Cavaliers get one for pride ? Do the Warriors close them out ? Will it be a blow out ? Will the announcers spend the entire game discussing where Lebron is going to play next year ?

I feel the Warriors are going to close this out. Which also sucks because I was supposed to go to a Jackson Browne concert tonight and now I'm torn.

^ You can't go wrong. Enjoy the night whichever you choose.

"3. Isaiah was an ass but a tough SOB. Still, the only player he could have replaced to make the Dream Team better was Christian Laettner."

Um... You spent your point #2 ragging on Stockton. Stockton was on the Dream Team. Isiah was a better player. Isiah could've and should've taken his place.

"4. I hate that we ever created the Dream Team and it is just wrong that we field an olympic team of NBA stars. So many people rag on today's players for moving to create super teams, but they applaud the Dream Team. Seems ironic and hypocritical to me."

How so? The Olympics is where athletes represent their home countries. NBA players are not exclusive to team USA, they go to the country they represent. Yao Ming played for China. Dirk Nowitzki played for Germany. Steve Nash played for Canada. Leandro Barbosa played for Brazil. Tony Parker played for France. Manu Ginobili played for Argentina. In fact, Argentina won the gold in 2004 and the US team got bronze. I remember watching it.

I think Isaiah and Stockton would be a close call, but yeah Isaiah would get my nod. Good point.

My comment about hypocrisy was about people complaining that players join together to create super teams in the NBA making it non-competitive.
But putting together the Dream Team did the same thing and was applauded by those same people.

Personally, I don't think Basketball should be in the Olympics. I think the Olympics should be reserved for sports in which winning the Olympics is the most coveted achievement.
But I am sure that is a minority opinion.

Boring game 4.

They should stop the game at the end of the 3rd-quarter and hand GS the trophy.

Cavs look like they just want it to be over

LeBron is just going thru the motions

Yep. It's over. Steph Curry for the MVP.

LeBron is saving himself for his next team

Got back from the concert just in time for the trophy ceremony.

I think Steph should've been finals MVP, but congrats to Durant.

WARRRRRIORRRRRSSSSSSSS

Lol