NBA Finals
Warrior15
Anywhere there are Titties.
The other Play-offs thread was getting a little long in the tooth. ( 328 Comments long.)
So Golden State Warriors Vs the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Warriors just beat the team with this years MVP and the best record. The Cavaliers barely got by a team that was playing without their best two players. Will Cleveland win a game ? Will the games even be close ? I"m thinking the only chance the Cavs have is if they break the legs of both Curry and Durant.
Anyone want to take the Cavaliers in this series ?
So Golden State Warriors Vs the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Warriors just beat the team with this years MVP and the best record. The Cavaliers barely got by a team that was playing without their best two players. Will Cleveland win a game ? Will the games even be close ? I"m thinking the only chance the Cavs have is if they break the legs of both Curry and Durant.
Anyone want to take the Cavaliers in this series ?
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194 comments
As far as the threads go, do whatever you need to get Nina to post so I can keep looking at her avi. Lol.
As far as keeping Nina posting here - I’m all for her input and avatar! It will be interesting to see if we get more dancers posting here - than in the discussion directed at dancer input.
I sit there and scratch my head... LeBron shows up every night, sometimes 1 or 2 or maybe even 3 other players show up on any given night. If everyone would show up, JR and Krover knocking 3s, Tristen actually doing something, Nance and Hill being productive in their minutes... this could be a 6 or 7 games series against a banged up GS team. But, that’s too good to give true and it’s not gonna happen.
Secondly I'm curious who is going to draw the defensive responsibility for LeBron. It's normally Iguodala and he isn't available from what I am hearing. Overall it's not enough to swing the series but it opens the door a bit.
With Green --he is 1) suspect to get into foul trouble 2) if he is on LeBron it pulls him away from the boards and rebounds. ( see comments about Thompson and Green if he plays) Rebounds mean second chances.
With Livingston it takes away from his offense........there are plenty of other weapons GS has but still.
Durant--I'm not feeling it......at least not for long......if anything this is a recipe for zone defense technical to be called.......
Green is the obvious choice I agree with Warrior and as long as he doesn't pick up a 3rd foul by the 1st Quarter or go batshit nuts and get T'd up and out it probably is the best choice.
While I agree that Olajuwon is the best player in rockets franchise history I disagree with the comment about his supporting cast being scrubs. While they weren’t a super team he had a solid supporting cast. Otis Thorpe was a solid player who averaged a double double that year, Vernon Maxwell was talented, but never reached his full potential because of the antics, Kenny Smith was a reliable shooter, Mario Elie was a tough defender & you had young Robert Horry & Sam Cassell. I would take that supporting cast over what lebron has to work with in these finals. I’d be surprised if the Cavs won a game or even stayed within double digits in any game. This series is going to get ugly.
I would still take prime Kevin Love over Otis Thorpe (and Tristan Thompson was a similar player) or a very young Horry. Vernon Maxwell, when he wasn't crazy, was better than Smith or Korver, though, but was a poor volume shooter at all ranges, even FTs. George Hill is a better overall PG than Kenny Smith but without the rings. Jeff Green provides similar intangibles as Elie off the bench.
If you take away Olajuwan, i don't think LeBron does much with that team, especially against a very physical and good rebounding Knicks team (Ewing, Oakley, Mason). Not that Dream could beat the Warriors if you put him on these Cavs, but the Warriors would have absolutely no answer for him and he would do a decent job against Durant, at least better than Tristan Thompson.
Okay, now for some stuff that's germane to the discussion: this Warriors team doesn't seem to have the focus that the past teams did. That's why this will go 5.
The old Rockets weren't scrubs, but they very much fit the 'one star plus role players' mold that most champions before the current era fit. We remember the exceptions because they were the dynasties (Lakers, Celtics, Bulls), but most of the champions had one guy who was above the rest. You could say that about the Bulls too, actually: as great as Pippen was, almost no one believes he was on Jordan's level. Better than a role player, obviously, but a rung below 23 on the ladder.
Should be fun to watch tonight, though...unless you're a Cavs fan.
The Knicks in the early 70s had Frazier, Monroe, Reed, Debusschere, Lucas, all HOFers AND members of the 50 greatest ever. Mid 70s had Celtics with Cowens, Havlicek and Jojo White, again all HOFers.
80s had the Lakers, Celtics, 76ers, and Pistons superteams. 90s had the Bulls and 00s had Lakers with Shaq and Kobe, and the Spurs with their big 3/4 (Robinson played in one Final), Pistons again with 4 All-Stars, Celtics with their big 3/4 and Lakers again with Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Metta World Peace.
10s (current decade) had the Heat, Spurs, Warriors and Cavs superteams and the Warriors will probably finish off this decade. There were only a handful or so of "weak" teams in that entire period. The mid-late 70s had Rick Berry and company (no other stars, Jamaal Wilkes was the next best player), Bill Walton's 76 Blazers had "only" Maurice Lucas and Lionel Hollins. The Bullets with Elvin Hayes, an older Wes Unseld and Bob Dandrige and Supersonics with Jack Sikma, Dennis Johnson (only HOFer, but for his work with the Celtics) and Gus Williams, traded titles in the late 70s.
Then you had the 90s Rockets teams although the second one had Drexler, but lost a couple role players and the 99 Spurs with "just" Duncan and Robinson, 2006 Heat with Wade and an aging Shaq and the 2010 Mavericks with Dirk, Chandler, Marion and Terry. (Caron Butler was injured).
So no i don't think the "one star plus role players" model ever really won titles except with Rick Berry, Olajuwon, Nowitzki and maybe Wade. Some one star teams have gone to the Finals, most notably: Iverson's 76ers (probably the worst supporting Finals team and they still won a game!), Kidd's Nets, and LeBron's first Cavs Finals team.
Dude. Enough. They had a chance to win on a buzzer beater at the end of regulation and JR Smith's stupid ass dribbled the ball out instead of going for a shot. You can even see him mouth the words, "I thought we were ahead" to Lebron after the buzzer went off sending it into overtime. The fact that it's a finals game with a few seconds left, and someone is at the free throw line, there is no excuse for thinking your team is ahead after that and it illustrates greatly how discombobulated the Cavs are.
Oh and that bullshit at the end... Tristan Thompson is straight trash and should be suspended next game. It looked like he was deliberately trying to get Draymond, the "hot head" of the Warriors to swing on him. Instead, Tristan hits Draymond in the face with the basketball and looked like he hit Draymond on the face with a closed fist (a weak one, at that, but... whatever)...but Tristan did all that AFTER he had already been thrown out.
^ great insight
They had a lot of players that we know the name of, but it was a collection of good role players. I don't think any of them were a top-10 player in the league.
Isaiah Thomas was the one player who could be considered a superstar. Dumas is HOF but he wasn't a superstar. I don't think any of them were a top-10 player in the league.
Quite frankly not that it mattered but I really didn't see the phantom elbow the T Thompson threw after the game was decided and I did see Green taunt him as he was walking over to the endline.
I'll stick by my original comments for now---GS has a problem without Iguodala.
Green for Cleveland brings defense and speed they do not have with Love--Love started out better than expected but he faded as the game wore on.
And Cleveland did better than expected on the offense boards because GS Green was pulled out of the paint to cover LeBron.
Durant didn't play that well - he's actually looked off a few times this post season.
CLE had their chance in game-1, I think we'll see a better GS team in game-2.
Yeah it had nothing to do with the Cavs player missing the free throw can could've put them a point ahead with a few seconds left, then JR Smith GETTING THE REBOUND AND DRIBBLING IT OUT BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THEY HAD WON. But sure, blame it on the refs instead of the dumbass who was like 7 ft away from the basket but dribbled out to half court instead of taking a shot, because ya know, this is only the finals... it's not important to know the score when there are like 4 seconds left in the game... Right.
Originally I thought Game 2 would be closer than Game 1--not knowing Love's status until game time, Cavs being the older team after a tough physical series with Boston, being the away team with the time zone difference.......
Of course now its hard to say and how can it be closer than overtime.
This is just one persons opinion but the key game to me in this series is Game 4. I fully expect GS to win at home and the Cavs to pick up their first home Game (3) It's Game 4 that hinges how long the series goes.
In any event, even if he shot, there is no guarantee he would have made it. Granted, he had a better chance of making if he took the shot.
Kevin Love should technically be suspended, too, as players are not allowed to leave the bench during a scuffle if they aren't in the game. Kevin was on the court. He was also on the court before the scuffle, though, so that is a lot easier to look past than Trashy Tristan. It's not like Kevin was instigating.
Partisan? Sure. The Warriors are my favorite team. Don't know how saying Tristan Kardashian should be suspended has anything to do with that. He broke league rules, plain and simple. He actually hit Draymond in the face. If Draymond had done what Tristan did, I'd be worried today that they would announce his suspension and surprised if they didn't give him one, because it is it warranted in that situation. And if Draymond had hit Tristan in the face twice (once with a ball, then with his hand), you'd be crying out that he should be suspended.
So you're saying JR would have had a better chance at making the shot if he had actually... taken the shot?! Wow. My mind is blown. I need Wayne Gretzky to come explain this to me.
As far as suspensions, that is not an assumption. It is in the rule book.
Snip:
Per league rules, "any player who throws a punch, whether it connects or not, has committed an unsportsmanlike act" and will be suspended for a minimum of one game.
Rules also state that "during an altercation, all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench. Violators will be subject to suspension, without pay, for a minimum of one game and fined up to $50,000."
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Tristan Kardashian should be suspended for at least one game. Maybe more, if this was a regular season game. Kevin Love should also be suspended per league rules, but since he was already on the court before the altercation, they might let that slide. Although he did start walking towards the altercation until a coach grabbed him. So, whatever.
I agree that Kardashian should not have been ejected for that foul (even though he basically admitted that he did it because he was pissed, but I don't think it was a flagrant 2.) That doesn't matter. You can't hit a ref just because he made a bad call, either. So even if the flagrant 2 gets reversed, Tristan Kardashian should be suspended. Kevin Love technically should, too, but I'll give him a pass because he was being unsportsmanlike or violent, and for what it's worth, he didn't jump off the bench to involve himself.
I learned these rules as a kid after Malice at the Palace happened.
The end of game brain cramp by Smith with 4.5 seconds left was not his only one that contributed to Cavs loss. At end of 1st half when Durant pulled the rebound and passed to Curry with 2 seconds left on clock, instead of guarding Curry, Smith stupidly went for the steal and whiffed and left Curry unguarded and with 0.5 seconds left Curry made the 38-foot shot to tie it up. Big time blow it, as pointed out by Mark Jackson on the telecast.
I hope NBA doesn't suspend Thompson so that Cavs fans have nothing to bitch about.
Or did he?
With 36 seconds remaining in regulation and the Warriors down 104-102, Golden State forward Kevin Durant drove the lane where he slammed into Cleveland’s LeBron James on his way to the basket.
Initially, the referees called Durant for a charge, but the play went under lengthy video review. That’s when the ABC crew called upon Javie, a retired NBA official, to dissect the play.
Said Javie, who officiated in the NBA from 1986 through 2011, “I do believe James was there prior to the upward motion of the shot.”
So it was a charge, right? No. The call on the floor was reversed to a block and Durant sank two free throws to tie the game.
It’s a call that undoubtedly will be argued over for days — especially in Cleveland — and one that left ABC analyst Mark Jackson perplexed.
“We have a great official reviewing the play and he tells us he sees it one way,” Jackson said, “and then the officials in the game see it totally differently.”
Yes, purse. Don't call it a duffel bag. That was a purse. I didn't get a good look at it, but it was about the size of a standard Birkin. It might have been a Birkin. Or Prada? Idk, but he was carrying a purse.
He's a 6'9" 260+ lb man who carries a purse. Not only that, but you cannot tell me it wasn't hilarious that he stood up, pulled his shorts down cuz they were riding his thighs a little too high, put on his sunglasses, then grabbed his purse off the floor and sashayed out of the room like a well dressed diva with a nice alligator accessory on his arm.
It was hilarious. It was like the Viola Davis gif... except funnier. It's the best moment LeBron has ever given me, along with him tweeting @ Trump and calling him a bum.
Some people just get away with things that others can't, whether they deserve it (LeBron is the GOAT) or not (BO is possibly the most damaging president this country has ever elected).
I do believe Michelle was born female, I have doubts about it's current gender. It looks like it has been taking high doses of testosterone and apparently regrets regrets that decision and resorts to cross dressing now.
Actually I meant transsexual transvestite. Born female, changed sexes to male (it is obvious that it is now male), and now cross-dresses as a female.
Transexuals are people who were born as one gender, but identify as another. Michelle was born female, and identifies as such. She has never identified as a man. I've implored you to start your own topic, yet you keep going. I'll continue for a while, that way everyone can continue to see what a completely altRight brainwashed nutcase you are. If your mind wasn't infected, you'd be embarrassed by your absurd comments.
Case in point, superstar calls and homecourt advantage. Why should the home team get more calls in their favor? It's not really fair, but it's expected and all the more reason to do better in the regular season, or in MLB, win the freaking All-Star game. If a rookie had run into Lebron James on the last "blocking foul", he would have definitely been called for a charge and no review would have been done. But the game is in Oakland and it was another superstar in Durant running into LeBron.
Since it was the last one or two minutes of the game and there was just a slight question if LeBron may have been in the restricted area, it ended up going to review where it became a 50/50 call regardless of the players involved. I guarantee if it was Looney (the only non star on GS that starts), no way that charge gets overturned and probably not even reviewed.
You are right. I am not up on the specifics when describing the freaks in the LGBTQZYXW community.
My comments about Michelle Obama were obviously hyperbole. I didn't think anyone of Nina's claimed intelligence and thick skin would take it seriously and react so defensively about it. I know that Michelle probably never had a sex change. I apologize for calling it a transvestite and a transsexual. I do see that people who may be unsure of its veracity may get all stirred up about it.
It is funny how easily one can get reactions from Obama ass-lickers, even when they have been educated at the finest community colleges that Michigan has to offer. Sorry Nina.
I'll backtrack and make my assertion of why LeBron gets away with carrying a purse using an example nobody can disagree with nor get defensive about.
Some guys can just get away with things that others can't. It's like how Barack Obama gets away with being married to someone that looks like a man.
Not that I agree 100% with flagooner.........in my life time ( and his since he admits to being older than dirt) the worst President sat in the office from 1977-1980............that is when he wasn't fighting off killer rabbits.
To get the conversation back on track just about everything have read in the past 24 hours supports that the refs flat out messed up the end of the game....and despite JR's brain fart it should have never gotten to that point.
And in my opinion, when you are worth $300MM, you can wear what ever you damn well want.
so Steph said "you couldn't let me have that one?" jokingly to LeBron after LeBron pinned his shot at the end of the game, and LeBron responded "get the f*ck out of my face."
"And in my opinion, when you are worth $300MM, you can wear what ever you damn well want."
In my opinion, if you're worth $3 you can wear whatever you want within your financial capacity. If you're worth $300 billion you can wear whatever you want. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna laugh. It gave me Joey from Friends vibes, in the episode where he gets a purse... But funnier, because LeBron was channeling his inner Viola Davis. Lmao. Don't know why some people think wealthy people should be immune to the same opinions than "normal" folks.
Then again I've been around multimillionaires countless times throughout my life so maybe that's why they don't seem like supreme emperors to me. I never have thought being richer makes a person better than another.
It's like when Westbrook came to the press conference in his own "fashionable" outfit of a ripped shirt. Even the NBAtv press conference announcer literally said, "whoa... whoa..." and was lost for words when he saw him and commentators were laughing about it. Westbrook is also rich as fuck. We're allowed to have opinions about multimillionaires. They are humans, not gods.
Flagooner - funny I called you a LeBron ass-licker and you come right back and call me one? Original. You have such little self awareness that you don't understand, you're the one who got defensive by going way OT and talking about Michelle's sex just because I said one of my favorite LeBron moments was when he called Trump a bum on Twitter. Get thicker skin, and don't back peddle. If you were truly being hyperbolic, you wouldn't continue to call her an "it." You can call me thin skinned all you want, but so many of you guys on this board have tried to come for me and pick fights with me and I've always shut every single one of you down.
And please stop lying and saying I go to community college. I think the ones of you here who keep insisting that (just you and a couple of salty others) are just trying to make me admit what real University I went to which I find very creepy and stalkerish.
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So do you guys even watch the post game interviews? I always extend the record time on the game for post game coverage and record NBA TV's post game as well. I like watching post game conferences. And twentyfive, maybe LeBron will have a Birkin next time. :) ...or 6 inch Giuseppe Coline Wings. Then we can be matching, depending on what color his are.
Here are responses to some of your comments:
“…you come right back and call me one? Original.”
I wasn’t looking for originality in using the term ass-licker. I was merely pointing out that your obsession with the Obamas mimics the obsession you claim others have with LeBron. You proved my point by reacting as you did, showing your need to defend Barack’s beastly spouse. I’ll expand on that a little later.
“Get thicker skin and don’t back peddle”
First, it’s backpedal and not back peddle. Your community college education should have taught you that or were you too stoned to learn anything when attending class?
Second, the ability to recognize when one has been mistaken and thus retreat is actually a sign of maturity. A stubborn defiance and refusal to self-reflect is a sign of juvenile naivety and a thin-skinned personality. Hopefully one of these days you will grow up.
“I’ve always shut every single one of you down.”
I will just laugh at that one. No need to point out the many examples that show that statement to be delusional.
“…trying to make me admit what real University I went to which I find very creepy and stalkerish.”
No. Maybe you are better educated than I or just more paranoid because I can't connect the dots between saying that someone went to community college and stalking them. You may have dropped out of high school and never went to a community college for all I know. You may be a Rhodes Scholar. I don’t know and really don’t care. The only reason I ever bring it up is because it pushes your buttons and you react so predictably. Flagooner is to NinaBambina as Geppetto is to Pinocchio.
Going back a little… I was a bit easy on you concerning your earlier responses to my Michael Obama takes.
“…jealous of Michelle for being graceful, poised, and the most educated first lady of all time.”
I won't argue with the well educated claim, but I do not agree with the other two claims. I notice how you use the term educated instead of smart however. Just because one attends classes does not mean that they process the information that is presented to them. Our brains don’t work by osmosis.
More than 97% of Harvard grads pass the bar exam on the first try. Michael did not. This doesn’t mean that 97 percent of the graduates were smarter, but it does point in that direction. I won’t accept the common excuse of racial bias on standardized tests either. While it may be present in some tests, I do not believe it to be so with the bar exam.
But just getting into Harvard Law School means you are smart is another argument. Harvard's legacy and Affirmative Action policies refute that argument. It is why I feel that Affirmative Action actually serves as a weight for high achieving minorities. I’m not saying that Michael got into Harvard due to Affirmative Action. I don’t know. I am saying that the AA program provides ammunition for people to use in saying that specific minorities do not attain achievements based on merit.
I will now allow you the last word, as I know you are incapable of restraining yourself. So go back to your room and toke up on your blunt to ease the emotional pain you inflict on yourself from taking so many random cocks bareback up your pooper every night in VIP while drafting your next response that will “shut me down.”
Dude what the fuck are you even talking about with your "war of wits" bullshit, ya damn psycho? I was talking about LeBron and made a comment about him tweet Trump and you then start talking about Obama and go on claiming Michelle is a "transvestite transexual." You brought Obama and Michelle into this and went on a quite ridiculous posting rampage when I told you (I believe more than once) to take your craziness to a new thread. Talk about going off on a tangent, you've written a lengthy post that I'm now responging to.
In fact, half that lengthy post included STILL talking about Michelle. You have an obsession. And she didn't just go to Harvard, her undergrad was at Princeton. Would you like to say more about her education?
If the only reason you say I go to community college is to press my buttons, there is no "war of wits," you just sound like a stupid, miserable old grouch because I'm a stripper who actually does things in her life and you're a pathetic old man arguing with a woman in her 20s. And I already told you why I think the community college thing is unsettling. I think you want me to get so rattled that I admit what University I went to or will be going to. I keep that private for a reason. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but as a dancer, some men are stalkers, and you put forth serious 'red flags' when you argue with me and then make it super personal. Why are you worried about me and my life so goddamn much, anyway?
You're like the perfect illustration of the old grump who yells at kids in the neighborhood (even if they're NOT on your lawn), and I can tell something about me makes you insecure about yourself. I also am gonna go out on a limb here and say no one has told you they love you in a while.
"Maybe you are better educated than I"
Maybe. I'm smarter, and you're a pathetic, small man. I am certainly greater than.
*Shrug*
Anyway, can't wait till 8. :)
https://media1.tenor.com/images/d9271de6…
This is a finals discussion... everyone who's been paying attention to the regular season knows Harden is obviously league MVP this year.
Steph Curry sets the record for most 3s (9) in an NBA finals game. I think he will be finals MVP. I hope so.
If LeBron leaves Cleveland after this, his going to LAL.
twentyfive did you see the "official" NBA report about the quality of officiating in Game 1?
Curry was unreal last night. Regardless if I am a Cavs fan or not I respect his level of play--same with KT.
I still don't thing LeBron is going anywhere but only time will tell.
And I still think because I was right on top of the floor the piss poor calls extend back to Game 6 of the Celtics series.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016…
If you want to see more, YouTube some Curry shots in your free time. He's been doing this for years and it's amazing to watch.
GS takes one of two and heads back home and it's over.
Who gets Finals MVP?
A. Curry
B. The GOAT in a losing effort
C. Klay
D. JR
Yeah, if the Warriors win today it will be looking like a sweep. Cavs will be back at home and they'll all be fired up. So will their fans. It's going to be a mental game. High emotion.
You obviously have more interest and have watched this series closer than I so I will defer to your choice of KD over Klay.
KD has certainly been the man tonight.
And he traded away Isiah Thomas #2, so...
My feeling is LeBron stays in Cleveland, but I think Miami would be willing to spend the most to get him if they are able to work around their cap.
For the reasons I mentioned before I suspect LeBron will stay in Cleveland.
TheDirkDiggler - Isiah will always have a grudge against Jordan because he thinks Jordan is the main reason he was snubbed from being a member of the Dream Team, which Isiah obviously should have been on. There were a couple other players who also said they wouldn't play on the team if Isiah did because of his "poor sportsmanship," but I'm sure Jordan was the muscle behind the whole thing.
Although, many of the bad boys (who didn't end up playing with him) probably don't care much for Jordan.
I was watching a recent interview of Bill Laimbeer who's coaching a new WNBA team. The interview was probably around the beginning of the playoffs. They asked him a couple questions about the NBA. He has said before that he thinks LeBron is better than Jordan. He said it's because LeBron is bigger, faster, and stronger than Jordan and makes the people around him better. I usually agree with Laimbeer but this I didn't agree with. However, Laimbeer is typically pretty blunt with a high basketball IQ so he might actually think that instead of just hating on Jordan because of the past. Although Bill also predicted the Rockets would win the entire thing, so...
I wonder what Steve Kerr's answer would be? He was on Mike's team for some years.
And speaking of Bill Laimbeer, the people complaining about Draymond Green now obviously were shitting on themselves when they watched the bad boys play, especially Laimbeer. You really had to earn your points back then.
-he dated my mom, planned a trip, then went and married someone else on the weekend that their trip was supposed to be.
-months later, he saw her, and tried to get back with her despite being a newlywed. She proudly turned him down and said, "sorry, I have a pageant to go to!" He followed her to the pageant and watched. Idiot.
-he was best friends with Magic. (My mom stayed in the Isiah Room at Magic's mansion). Then as soon as Magic announced he had HIV, the one NBA player who Magic thought would be there for him (Isiah) completely turned on him, effectively throwing their friendship in the garbage. Not only did he refuse to associate with his former best bud, but he started questioning Magic's sexuality and saying a lot of hurtful things. I can't imagine being in Magic's position, and then have my best friend of all people make me feel alone and alienated while I'm fearing for my life. Not to mention, the medication back then wasn't nearly as advanced as today, where people are living full, healthy lives with HIV. This was in 91, when it was still a 'death sentence.' How can you turn your back on your friend who was just diagnosed with something that might kill him? That is so shitty.
They just started rekindling their friendship (hopefully it was real and not just for the cameras). It was a segment that was on TV maybe late last year or early this year, and they sat down and talked about everything and you could tell there was a lot of pain behind it all. I think they both ended up crying.
At this point we would have to win 4 in a row to take this thing. Not happening. But I'm just happy for him, the team, and the town that the Cavs (or any CLE sports team) got this far. I know the Lombardi ethos is that "winning isn't everything .. it's the only thing." But serious we get the short end of the stick so much I'm grateful for the opportunity for the Finals and the shot at a championship, even if it didn't work out. Thank you, Cavs. Thank you, Lebron.
Then he should stop buying huge, secluded family homes in LA. ;) I saw the recent one he bought... that's when I started to wonder if he is going to LA. That didn't look like a vacation home.
Early in the playoffs it looked they wouldn't make it past the first round against the Pacers so everything since then has been a bonus. Things might possibly have been different had the officials been more accurate in game 1 or if JR didn't make such a bonehead play but it is what it is.
Considering all the turmoil they suffered through since the end of the previous season and throughout this season they had a good run and did better than I ever expected they would do.
Maybe you move Chris Mullin off, but he was more of a small forward (he had just made the All-NBA first team as a forward). There was some "rule" or condition that they had to have at least one college player, so Christian Laettner stole a spot from a worthy NBA "dreamer". Should have gone to Shaq instead although he was technically an NBA player since he had just been drafted, but Laettner was in the same draft.
As for Laimbeer's comments. LeBron is definitely bigger and stronger when you consider his size, but Jordan was faster in his prime than LeBron and one of the most athletic players ever. He was also very strong for his size; his listed height and weight (6' 6", 216) were essentially the same as Iguodala (6' 6", 215) and Iggy is considered one of the best LeBron defenders today next to Leonard. Took physical beatings for much of his career (and could dish out pain himself) and missed very few games. He couldn't bulldoze his way through the paint (and LeBron wouldn't either in the 80s and 90s with all the quality bigs playing), but had a far superior post game. He was also a far better defender winning DPOY and earning 9 consecutive ALL-Defensive first team selections. LeBron is a better passer and a marginally better rebounder although he's playing from the forward position; i'll give him that.
I've seen a few clips of Kerr comparing the two, and while being diplomatic, he seems to favor Jordan, although he then says than Kobe is closer to Jordan and LeBron is a different player than Jordan. He's never been asked to compare Duncan and LeBron which i think is a more fair comparison or even Kobe and LeBron and now Durant and LeBron.
LeBron compared the Warriors to the Patriots. Well, i compare LeBron to Peyton Manning. The best career numbers all time in the regular season, but underwhelming in the playoffs. I would compare Brady more to Kobe and Jordan to Joe Montana. Not a completely accurate analogy, but close. Brady has more titles than Peyton, but a few losses as well. Montana is perfect in the Super Bowl. Almost no one says that Peyton is better than the other two when all is considered.
Shaq wasn't especially dominant until after 2000 when every other great center was either retired or declining (Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Mutombo, Mourning, Sabonis, Parish, Divac, Daugherty, Smits), and while Yao and Dwight were developing. Ben Wallace might have been the best center left during those years and he had no offense. And then maybe Brad Miller or Ilgauskas? Kind of like how there is no great small forward left except Durant and Kawhi if he can get healthy. Paul George, a noticeable drop off, is probably the next best one, followed by the Greek freak, and Gordon Hayward is injured and overrated.
Carmelo, Vince Carter and Joe Johnson are too old and Pierce, T-Mac, Shawn Marion, Michael Finley and Metta World Peace are long retired.
Outside of Demarcus Cousins and the young and developing Embiid, Towns and Gobert, there are no great centers left either. The number of great power forwards is even more scarce. After Anthony Davis (who is more like a 7 foot guard like Durant), Draymond Green and Blake Griffin might be the two best in the game today. Then the unicorn, Porzingis if he recovers from his torn ACL, followed by Aldridge, Kevin Love, Millsap and Ibaka?
Basically, this is the weakest i've ever seen the front court in the NBA since i can remember. Even shooting guards and wings aren't that impressive. Klay Thompson might be the best shooting guard today (Harden plays more like a point, otherwise he would be the best). Next would be maybe Demar Derozen? Jimmy Butler, Bradley Beal? Only the PG position is rich in great talent today. So the high level talent just seems more diluted today. And it seems that 4 of the top 20 players (so high All-Stars instead of marginal ones) in the league are on the Warriors and another top 50 player in Iguodala. I feel this can't but help make the game (not the Finals though) just a little easier for LeBron. That and the changed rules.
Neither were very good. Reed gets extra credit for hobbling onto the court in the finals and JFK for getting brained on video.
People make fun of Wilt for beating on smaller white guys (not all true) during a time when there were only 8 or so teams (that was true), but Shaq didn't really start beating on teams either until all the good bigs were gone. No one could make him work on the other end. Yet those two were still truly dominant and would dominate any era, just not to the degree they did during their primes.
LeBron has been arguably (with variable levels of argument) the best player in the league for almost 10 years now as all the previous greats declined or left the game (Dirk, Duncan, Kobe, KG, Pierce). In that time period, who was the next best player? Maybe Durant and he's in a different conference. Only sees LeBron twice a year and if they meet in the Finals. Beyond that, there really isn't much discussion of other players. Often when we talk about best ever in various sports (golf, tennis, baseball, football, the other football), not only do we compare eras, but also the competition during the time. When a player has no true rival, he often dominates the sport. It's not his fault, but causes a prisoner of the moment situation.
Now there's a new rising crop of great players (Westbrook, Curry, Harden, Embiid, Kawhi, Davis) who are going to peak during LeBron's inevitable decline. Funny how that works...
How about if you post this kind of stuff on Stripper Web?
SJG
Wilt is, IMO, in his own league. Um, 100 points in a game? Could bench like 550 lbs? I will always regard him as one of the greatest.
On Wilt. Hard to argue against that guy. But in that era, I would go with Bill Russell. Lots of championship banners in Boston because of him.
Combined with his body of work, he's better than Isiah who never made any All-Defensive team despite being on the Pistons with Rodman and Dumars, and gets more out of his teammates as well as having better basketball IQ. Interestingly, Stockton had Isiah present him at the HOF, so there was a mutual respect between the two, and Gary Payton considered Stockton to be the most difficult assignment to guard, period.
Oh, and boxing is another sport where people like to endlessly compare different eras, not that this discussion needs to digress any further...
I'd like to see Stockton lead his team through the finals on one leg... Oops he would never. Isiah was a dog, but he would bang with the rest of them. Thomas > Stockton. We've made that clear so please don't pretend there were not "political" reasons why he was kept off the Dream Team that he undoubtedly should have been on.
As for Thomas playing on one leg in two games, if you're playing, no one cares if you're hurt. No one is completely healthy in the Finals, anyway. They still lost those games despite having a loaded team and a 3-2 lead. Klay Thompson is still playing on a high ankle sprain (similar injury as Isiah Thomas). They won those games. Curry played injured the year they lost with a 3-1 lead and isn't healthy again right now. Injuries are part of the game. If you're playing, no one is going to feel sorry, but the results still count. Isiah lost. Stockton also played well in his Finals appearances. LeBron is going to lose too but no one remembers losing efforts.
And why do you even need someone to "lead" a team on one leg on the Dream Team? The Dream Team is all about the ultimate "team", not hero ball. Playmakers are way more important that scorers. Anyone on that team can score (Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Bird, Drexler, etc.). That's what makes the "death" lineup on Golden State so effective. Everyone can make plays for themselves or other players.
Yes, there are a lot of politics in the Hall. Yao Ming was a great center and worthy of the Hall for all his work in basketball. But he didn't deserve to be first ballot despite having his career cut short in or even before his prime by devastating injuries. He went in right away because he was considered an ambassador of the game and the way he conducted himself on and off the court.
Drazen Petrovic is another example. If he wasn't tragically killed in an accident, there is no way he makes the Hall base on two very good, but not especially great seasons, even if he could have had a HOF career had he lived. He was that special of a shooter/scorer. Laimbeer doesn't "deserve" anything at this point. Every year there are players just as deserving if not more so that don't get selected to the Hall. Not everyone worthy can get in.
But the All-NBA teams aren't generally considered political even if they are picked by the press, requiring some consensus. Stockton made the second team the year before and after the Dream Team. Thomas made the second team in 1987 and not a single selection after that despite a third team being added in 1989. The other guards on the first team right before the Dream Team was selected were Jordan and Drexler.
Magic and Bird were somewhat political selections with Magic coming out of retirement (but it was freaking Magic) and Bird contemplating retirement after an injury plagued season (which he did retire after that season). He did make the second team as late as 1990, so the only forward that was possibly snubbed was Dominique Wilkins as the other forwards (Malone, Pippen, Barkley, and even Mullin) on the Dream Team were perennial All-NBA selections at that time.
Picking Isiah at that time would have been political in his favor, choosing him for his past accomplishments and not what he was capable of in the present. At that snapshot in time (and i can remember the original Dream Team), Stockton was the superior PG. The comparative stat lines for that season weren't even close. Stockton: 15.8 ppg on 11.5 shots and 48% shooting, 41% from 3, 84% from the line, 13.7 assists to 3.5 turnovers, 3.3 rebounds, 3.0 steals, .3 blocks, and PER of 22.8 compared to Thomas: 18.5 ppg on 16.2 shots and 45% shooting, 29% from the 3, 77% from the line, 7.2 assists to 3.2 turnovers, 3.2 rebounds, 1.5 steals, .2 blocks and a PER of 16.0 (15.0 is the league average). So only a few more points from less efficient scoring and everything else outside of turnovers (but a way worse assist to turnover ratio) was worse and some stats about half as much (steals and assists, the all time leader at both).
Stockton also made the All-NBA and All-Defensive second teams that season. Thomas, nothing. Thomas did make the All-Star team (and that is definitely political) that year, but all the best PGs were on the west (Stockton, Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Payton) compared to just Thomas and Mark Price in the east.
And how does having Karl Malone on your team ensure being able to get 13 to 14+ assists per game for several consecutive years? So should Scottie Pippen have gotten 15 assists per game because he played with Jordan, an even superior scorer? To be fair, the triangle offense tends to prevent gaudy assist numbers, but Thomas had even more scoring options on his team than Stockton with Dumars, Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson, Laimbeer, Mahorn and even Adrian Dantley at one point. No, i don't think there is anything clear about Thomas being better than Stockton, especially during that time.
2. Stockton was probably the dirtiest player in the league, and that includes the Bad Boys, and most overrated. The Utah scorekeeperboosted his stats. He averaged more than 5 more apg at home than on the road.
3. Isaiah was an ass but a tough SOB. Still, the only player he could have replaced to make the Dream Team better was Christian Laettner.
4. I hate that we ever created the Dream Team and it is just wrong that we field an olympic team of NBA stars. So many people rag on today's players for moving to create super teams, but they applaud the Dream Team. Seems ironic and hypocritical to me.
Um... You spent your point #2 ragging on Stockton. Stockton was on the Dream Team. Isiah was a better player. Isiah could've and should've taken his place.
"4. I hate that we ever created the Dream Team and it is just wrong that we field an olympic team of NBA stars. So many people rag on today's players for moving to create super teams, but they applaud the Dream Team. Seems ironic and hypocritical to me."
How so? The Olympics is where athletes represent their home countries. NBA players are not exclusive to team USA, they go to the country they represent. Yao Ming played for China. Dirk Nowitzki played for Germany. Steve Nash played for Canada. Leandro Barbosa played for Brazil. Tony Parker played for France. Manu Ginobili played for Argentina. In fact, Argentina won the gold in 2004 and the US team got bronze. I remember watching it.
My comment about hypocrisy was about people complaining that players join together to create super teams in the NBA making it non-competitive.
But putting together the Dream Team did the same thing and was applauded by those same people.
Personally, I don't think Basketball should be in the Olympics. I think the Olympics should be reserved for sports in which winning the Olympics is the most coveted achievement.
But I am sure that is a minority opinion.
They should stop the game at the end of the 3rd-quarter and hand GS the trophy.
I think Steph should've been finals MVP, but congrats to Durant.
WARRRRRIORRRRRSSSSSSSS