Lets discuss this... use of the "N" word in music.
crsm27
Minnesota
I read an article where Kendrick Lamar stopped a show because a "white" person he invited up on stage was singing along with his song and then used the "N" word. he stopped the show and told her he wasn't "cool" with it.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/kend…
Then we have the whole Lil dickey thing going on with the "freaky friday" song and the publicity it has gotten when a bunch of white girls were taped singing it and saying the "n" word. But were singing along.
Now here is my thoughts... if your an artist dont you want all people to know and sing along with the song?
I mean is this kind of a racist for the artist to only choose who they want to sing certain words... or a type of censorship?
I mean really just think about it before going off on what is "right" and "wrong" with the actual word. I know social it is horrible... but just think about it in this terms... is it right or wrong for an artist to censor there own music or does it go against what freedom of speech is meant to be?
Just food for thought and would love a civil discussion.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/kend…
Then we have the whole Lil dickey thing going on with the "freaky friday" song and the publicity it has gotten when a bunch of white girls were taped singing it and saying the "n" word. But were singing along.
Now here is my thoughts... if your an artist dont you want all people to know and sing along with the song?
I mean is this kind of a racist for the artist to only choose who they want to sing certain words... or a type of censorship?
I mean really just think about it before going off on what is "right" and "wrong" with the actual word. I know social it is horrible... but just think about it in this terms... is it right or wrong for an artist to censor there own music or does it go against what freedom of speech is meant to be?
Just food for thought and would love a civil discussion.
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But honestly think about it. I am not trying to start fights or anything like that. Just it is interesting is all. Since there are been numerous examples of people getting into trouble and what not just for repeating a song lyric...singing along with a song. They are not doing anything in malice or ill will. Just singing along with a song. Yet disiplinary actions have been taken.
Something to think about...
The Kendrick Lamar concert example is a useful one. When he’s writing his lyrics - and singing his songs - before performing them for a crowd - does he imagine only folks who are “allowed” to use his lyrics singing along?
There was a song a few years ago - by Jay Z and Kanye - N’s in Paris - which is an odd song title.
Maybe they aren’t writing music for everyone? But then they seem to want everyone to buy their music - to make them richer?
If someone finds words offensive if used by others... why say those words? or right songs about it.
OK... another example by lil dickey. I was informed by him as an artist because of the media and those girls singing the song. But at the end of one of his songs he says.... why can latin or hispanic rapers us the "n" word... it is illogical... then he does say that if he is allowed to use it, it would help his rap game and lyricly. But again he isn't throwing shade or is racist. He is just pointing out the hypocricy in all of it.
Again I totally get that a white person should never use the "n" word. But yet if they are singing along with a song written and performed by a "black" person... how is this bad. They are not using the "n" word in a deragitive way or putting anyone down. They are just repeating a song lyric sung and written by a black person.
It is like if the back in the day the back street boys said, "nope you cant sing my songs" to a 40 year old. Like they were only made for their teenage fan base.
That have certainly earned their "pass"
Think when corn fed country Hicks come out the closet with their own love of slobbing on the nigga knob, the N word controversy will blow it's own wad.
But like i mentioned it goes along with freedom of speech issue. He wants the freedom to write his lyrics and also perform them. Yet he did censor this girl.
First, the very simple thing. Not ok for non-black people to say the n-word. There's very few contexts where that's ok. So just don't fucking say it, and you won't get yourself into hot water. Just a simple, nice guideline to follow for life. Following that rule, white girl on stage should not have said it, "I was singing a song" does not trump "don't say the n-word".
With that out of the way, we can ALSO discuss "should artists say the n-word in their songs", "should Lamar have brought that white girl on stage, knowing she was singing along?" "why is the n-word always so fucking funny? I mean, I've heard it a thousand times, and it just keeps getting funnier". Etc. Those are all fine discussions to have, but the main question here was answered in my preceding paragraph.
“Cunt” used to be kinda like that w women, but a buddy on here jokingly called me a cunt in a message, and it wasn’t offensive at all. There’s something ab the n word. Ppl just shouldn’t say it.
Is that the N word we are talking about?
Chris Rock said it best in one of his stand ups. “White people mute the N word when they are around their black friends singing rap songs. But when they are alone you know they’re belting out that part of the song, uncensored.”
I’m probably paraphrasing but after all this is a forum about banging strippers.
Instead of race lets use sexual orientation.... Many in the LGBT world think it is not ok to use the word "queer" or "fag" which are both derogatory. Yet some will playfully call others in that lifestyle or world those words. It is a double standard in both situations.
If he invites her up on stage to sing along and then gets mad and calls her out for doing just that, he's the one who is an asshole.
Having said this - IMO any double-standard does not hold water - if a black teenage boy can say to his black teenage friend "hey what's up my nigga" and it'd be "ok" I think it's ridiculous to say a white teenager that's into hip-hop to not be able to express himself in the same way and be able to say to his white teenage friend "hey what's up my nigga" - no one has a right to say how another person can express themselves even less so when a person says "I can say 'X' but you can't"; especially if it's not in a derogatory context and more as part of current hiphop culture which most young people of all races are into - next thing you know they will be saying a white-person has no business being in an event that is for black people b/c it's for them and not white-people - "equality" can only be a two-way street; not only when it's beneficial - can't have your cake and eat it too.
Papi... reason why I brought this up here is we have a diverse audience on this site... male, female, all races, etc. We on this site are opinionated, also kind of looked "down" upon by social norms.. ie: we are the pervs that like to look at naked women... AND ADMIT IT PUBLICLY.. lol But you get my point... we can get lots of discussion as long as we stay civil... IMHO. Granted we wont fix anything but we can shed light or perspectives or other narratives for people. Maybe this discussion will move out into our daily lifes and foster more discussion. Hell maybe I am having a midlife thing... i did watch Bill and Ted's excellent adventure last night and you know... "their music saves humanity"... lol
Why is it that the only people I ever hear using the word cracker are black?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAB9QeXA…
Plus DeNiro likes dark meat. His wife is a black woman. Lol.
Idk why so many non-black people want to congregate and discuss the use of the N word and determine who they think should say it and who should not. Looks stupid. This is a stupid thread.
attribute this to parenting that wasn't tough enough at home. if a kid said that word in front of an old school parent you can bet that parent would smack that kid right upside the head.
For the record, I have not used the N word in over three decades.
Don’t care what anyone thinks, it’s not a free speech issue, you are free to use whatever words you want, whenever you want, but don’t be such a numbskull, and think that the reaction you get is unjustified.
Honestly, I don't understand why some people feel such a need to use certain words that they get upset and defensive that some people can use the word but they can't.
But getting back to the original post. I don't think that reciting lyrics indicates that the individual is using the word in any offensive way unless they were the one who wrote the lyrics. To me, singing is mostlying mindless without regards to what the words mean. Ella Fitzgerald made a career out of singing
My point isnt who is allowed and who isnt. I know words are offensive... Just like the word "retard" is offensive to some and to others it isn't offensive.
My point I am trying to make is when people are reciting song lyrics and just singing along with out any malice or ill will. Then get "corrected" or "shamed" or "disciplined".... Look how social media blew up over this whole thing. And the white girls sports team that disciplined for singing along with lil dickie song. My thing isn't that going against what music is about.... Freedom of expression and freedom of speech?
Again this is why I give K. Lamar lots of credit. He didn't blow his top or anything. Just said, "i am not comfortable". Which is what people should do when get offended by things. Not go "postal" but just kindly voiced his concern. He also let the girl stay on stage and gave her another chance to sing with him.
Again in the article and what I am talking about isn't someone who just threw out the word towards a person of color. They were reciting song lyrics with the artist who wrote the song. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Or the other example they were singing along with a song. Like thousands of people do on an hourly basis and how thousands of other people do and post on social media of them singing. Again another difference that just throwing out the word randomly or in a negative meaning.
But I do totally understand some words you just dont use in society or around certain people.
But racists still use the word against black people. So blacks should refrain from the word to be nice, even though racist people are going to call them that anyway?
I already explained in a other post why the N word means what it means to black people and I don't want to keep going over it. It used to be solely a term to exert power over a black people and imply that they are less than. Then black people took the word and made it theirs so it doesn't have *as much* power to hurt them, and white people are still mad. White people will still sit around and make a long thread like this, talking about how THEY don't think black people should use the word.
If you were at a neighbor's house and heard her daughter call her "mommy," would you start calling her "mommy," too? Would you be offended that the neighbor doesn't want you to also call her "mommy," or would understand why she doesn't want you to call her that? Or would you insist that since the daughter is calling her that, then you should be able to as well?
Another question, more importantly, to the people here is why do YOU care? If you are not black and not racist, why are you so up in arms about it, anyway? Do you WANT to use the word or something?
It's a completely different argument about Lamar's actions. He is a giant steaming piece of crap for bringing a white girl on stage to sing his song, knowing that in the heart-thumping excitement of it all a smitten very-young woman who he'd personally encouraged to sing along might drop the n-bomb, and then turn the entire crowd against her. She should not have said it (see rule #1 above). He is a steaming pile of crap for engineering the entire situation (probably SPECIFICALLY to get this kind of publicity) and then not issuing a pass but rather fucking up her life.
Now should people now act??? If a person is singing to a song and the N word is in it. Then it is heard by someone else that they are singing the song.... now they could get blasted on social media, fired, discipline actions at work or school, shunned, physically hurt, etc. That is why i bring it up!
I am not trying to make it ok for people to use the word. I am just making a statement on where is the line going to be drawn? Like i mentioned... this is becoming a situation that is happening more and more often.
My best friend of 11 years is white --- a normal white girl, not the kind that tries to act ghetto --- and she never uses that word. She thinks white people, ALL of them, sound dumb when they say it. We love old school rap like Tupac, Biggie, old school Snoop, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, (etc), and she sings along to every single word except the N-word. It's not that hard. I even told her once that I personally wouldn't have a problem with it, but she still did not say it. It was a personal and conscientious choice she made a long time ago.
Bhad Bhabie dropped some wisdom on this general concept -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3rYXr5G…
Another question for you. Lets say a person is in a play... take Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer (or any other play/script/etc) where the "n" word is used. Should the person reciting the lines not say the "n" word? Just curious. Now I am not saying in a movie where you get payed. But a community theatre?
Again I am asking where does the line get drawn?
Michaelangelo's David is a masterpiece. Should they wrap a towel around him to cover his junk when certain tour groups come by so as not to offend?
Also you can compare it to "reciting" lines... one is in a play/movie... the other is to a song. So yes/no they are the same thing. Both just reciting lines.
Like I have said... where do you draw the line? If it is ok to say in movies and plays. IE: reciting lines... how is someone singing a song now bad?
Again when the song is not in malice, ill will, or meant to inflict harm or degrade someone. It is just singing.
I think this is the point - by all appearances, she seems to have thought she had been accepted into a culture that she looks to have fully embraced. Kicking her out of that culture because of her skin color is the only racist action I see in this incident.
That music doesn't appeal to me, so it's less of a struggle for me. Regardless, I just don't use that word unless it's clearly in the context of discussing race as a topic. Outside of that context, it's a minefield with a lot more mines than field.
I don't feel like I'm being politically correct in not using that word in casual conversation. I'm simply not being an asshole.
They are the same ppl w the same thoughts and feelings, whether they sing the word as it is in the lyrics, in public, or not. Why not just be okay w them?
Tho I truly think no one should put the word in songs, but not getting to sing a song as it is just sucks, so everyone does it when alone.
Crsm27 - are you asking me or are you asking Kendric? I've already given an example here of where I told a white person I know that I do not care if they say it while were singing songs together. I am not Kenrick or a black man as Kendrick is. I'm not going to speak for him, it's his choice what he says in his concert. He wasn't belligerent, and he let her stay up there. Maybe it was to send a message. I have no clue, but he got people to talk about it and he wasn't mean about it.
If you are white and for some odd reason you really just WANT to say it (because let's be real, this wouldn't be a discussion if some white people wanted to be able to say it because black people can), be ready for the repercussions because a black person may not take kindly to it and might want to make an example to show that it still is not ok.
Ok, fair point with this girl on stage. She definitely doesn't sound like she grew up urban.
The interesting aspect of it to me is hip hop having influenced mainstream culture to such an extent, it's hard to see this type of incident as anything other than someone thinking it's OK to participate because they actually like what they're emulating.
Destroying a life over that just seems cruel.
FWIW, I wouldn't be on stage or off saying the epithet for any race.
Again how would you feel if eminem invited a black man up on stage and stop him when he used the word Cracker.
1. Do you think it would be ok for eminem to stop this man from singing along to one of his songs? Personally I would feel eminem is in the wrong.
2. Do you think social media and people should be up in arms about the person singing along with the song used a racist term? (cracker is a racist term)? Again I think people should mellow the fuck out.
That is the point I am getting. BTW i know u dont care and because you know the person was singing along not being racist. But others are trying to make it racist.
That is why I brought up this discussion... where do you draw the line as a society? How it shows our society cant rationalize things anymore. They need to sensationalize.
BTW... thank you for your input on this discussion.
Eminem and I are both from 8 mile, although he mostly grew up on the north side (Warren) which is on the east side. I've lived on 8, 7, and 6 mile before but always on the west side. Always. I'll make exception for him, he cool. But he's a lunatic, too.
Let me pose it differently so you dont get confused...
If a white rapper/singer used the word "cracker", "Honkey", "White trash" in their song. then invited a black person up on stage to sing the song. Then stops the black person and says, "I am not comfortable with you using that word." Is that right or wrong???
that is the point!
And as a side note, while "cracker" and "honkey" are derogatory, they're not nearly as historically offensive as the N word so don't get it confused.
Oh and Eminem was a horrible example, he is proud "white trash" and guess what now he's rich as fuck (although crazy) but he hasn't forgotten where he came from and what his life was like... I'm glad Dr Dre took him under his wing a little for his come-up. Kid Rock may have been a better example. Just saying...
The white rapper is in the WRONG!
So now you are saying only certain people can sing certain lyrics?? What I mean is if the white rapper said only white people can sing the word "cracker" of my songs.... is that correct or wrong??
Again my take isn't about using these words in casual settings or conversation. It is when you are getting rich and famous for your writing/lyrics skills and performance of these lyrics. You can now dictate who can sing/enjoy them??? Isnt this going backwards for equality???
Maybe a little common courtesy is not political correctness, but rather the difference between good manners and acting like an ass.
The girl was kinda dumb for saying that in front of 30 thousand people, many whom are black. Period.
And it's also funny that people here insult Kendrick Lamar's music, insinuate that it's trash, when they probably have never taken time to listen to his work. I don't listen to a lot of today's hip-hop, but I know one of Krendrick's albums won a Pulitzer Prize. That's a huge deal, especially when the only other recipients of the Pulitzer Prize did classical or jazz. No other person's genre has earned them that title until Kendrick, so listen to his music before you try to insult it.
Please use a capital F when referring to me, thank you.
Again I am not saying L. Kendrick is wrong for saying he is offended or not comfortable. It is his choice. But it is also showing that he is a hypocrite. If his music and the expression of his music is freedom of speech. Then people reciting his music is expressing his free speech.
I wont even touch on how it is hinting at racism... ie: only people of a certain color or non color (using my example of a white rapper) can sing certain lyrics. It is censorship based on race.... which is racist.
Because I know from previous discussion how some think only a white person can be racist. When anyone can be racist.
Again, I can look at both sides. If I were 100% white, I probably wouldn't use that word, especially around strangers. If I was 100% black, I can see how I'd get offended when people who are not black try to say it for fun when people of that same ancestry used that word to oppress black people.
If someone is offended by derogatory terms for their race, they have the right to ask others not to use it around them or explain how they feel it's not okay. Just like the person who uses the word can choose to continue to use it, or listen to the person and not use it.
I think if someone who is part of a societal minority wants to tell you how they feel about an issue that offends them regarding that, the best option is to just listen to them.
bring up the Flag is kind of on point with what the NFL did today. People will say what they did will be infringing on the players "right" to protest and "freedom of speech". Yet I agree 100% with the NFL. Because they are there to do a job. If you or I or anyone would protest during work hours we would get fired, fined, etc. Now if they players want to use twitter, interviews, etc. to voice their concerns and issues. OR not be on the field during the national anthem. then so be it. It is their choice.
Just don’t act all surprised when you get your ass handed back to you.
If there’s a word that’s offensive to a certain race I’m not going to say it, regardless if that offended race chooses to use it among each other. It has been told many times that blacks use the n word as a term of endearment among each other. I don’t feel like that because they openly use it that it gives me the right to openly use it. Mexicans use the term “beaner” around each other, but I’m not going to use that word because it’s offensive to Mexicans. Pretty simple.
Of course with singing lyrics to songs is a little different. If I’m not black, and some of my fav songs have the n word in it, in private of course I will sing every word to the song, but I won’t do it in public, just out of respect. Kendrick Lamar put her in a bit of a tough spot, because he brought her on stage to see if she knew all the words to his song. In her mind she’s probably thinking Kendrick gave her the green light to use the word because she’s just trying to recite all the words.
If I’m white the real issue for me is why are Latin people allowed to openly use the n word in public and in their songs (Cardi B, Fat Joe, Dj Khaled, Tekashi 69 just to name a few), but white people aren’t allowed to do that? That’s getting a little off topic though.
Just like if a white rapper did the same with the word cracker. It is saying only a certain race can sing my song to the fullest. Only a certain race can enjoy my song in its entirety. It is censorship by race.
Just like those white girls singing along to "freaky friday" by lil dickie and Chris brown. Was it distasteful... maybe... was it poor judgement to post it to social media... maybe. Should they have been punished.... NOPE. Teaching moment... yes.
I have never walked in a black man's shoes so I don't have the same perspective.
But I do think intent should be considered when the word is used. I can understand him being offended hearing a white person use the word, but i think that type of reaction is a bit over the top when it is obvious that there is no intention of malice.
I THINK he was hoping she would use the word so he could feign offense and stir up this publicity.
I have not once said it is ok to use racial terms in convo or otherwise. I am getting is that she was singing "HIS WORDS"... that is the issue. He is censoring his own music. He is offended by his own lyrics... it is just the person delivering them.
If he heard a tape of a person just killing his song on the mic. He praises the delivery of that song...Then found out they were white? How would he react?
But like I have mentioned... how far is too far to play "being offended" card. Where do we as a society have to stand up and call bull shit! Now K. Lamar never cried racism at this girl. But many on social media have.
I myself am saying K. Lamar didn't straight out call "racism"... but he is back handedly doing it. He is saying who can and can not sing or enjoy his songs to the fullest.
Latin people can be black. Most Latins have an African/European/Native mix. Cardi B is Caribbean and also black. She identifies as both black and Caribbean, but looking at her, I see a girl who is black and a lil bit something else, if I had to be specific.
"Nina.... I am not saying anything about reclaiming a word. I am saying he only wants certain people of color to sing that part of his song!"
But I'm talking about people reclaiming a word... and those people are black... which means they are people of color.
They can sing his song however they want. But when they're at HIS show, in front of HIS fans, they should also use common sense. Save that N word for when you're around people who know you, who aren't offended.
That's why I think it was a publicity stunt.
I'm sorry for offending you in that manner.
I don't mind offending people, but that was not an appropriate way to do so, regardless of it being unintended.
Perhaps it was, yet it turned into a discussion about the use of the N word here in which stupidity was displayed.
Why did you make those comments?