OT: Ford is basically giving up on US car business, and GM is not far behind

Papi_Chulo
Miami, FL (or the nearest big-booty club)
Ford's plan to reduce its passenger car lineup to just two models, and GM's difficulty selling passenger cars in the U.S. show how much tastes are drifting toward trucks, SUVs and crossovers.

Ford will only update the Focus Active crossover and Mustang for the U.S. market, while GM called out a challenging passenger car environment.

So is it really the end of the American car on its home turf?

From the way Detroit's major executives are talking, it would seem so.

Ford said Wednesday it will only offer two new cars in North America over the coming years — its iconic Mustang and the Focus Active, a rugged-looking hatchback that has already debuted in Europe, and somewhat resembles the Subaru Crosstrek or the Buick Regal TourX.

GM is moving along the same lines.

"I think we have been on this path for a number of years," GM CFO Chuck Stevens said on a call with reporters on Thursday, after the largest U.S. automaker released first-quarter earnings.

Many of Fiat-Chrysler's biggest successes have been SUVs in recent years, evidenced by the growth of its Jeep brand.

"Virtually eliminating Ford's NA car portfolio makes a lot of sense, in our view," said Adam Jonas, an analyst at Morgan Stanley. "No more Fusion. No more Focus. No more Fiesta. No more Taurus."

GM still makes quite a few cars. For now, Chevrolet alone still sells somewhere around 12 car models if you count Corvette, although there have been rumors and news it will cut or end production of at least some of those. Buick has some sedans and a crossover that looks a lot like a wagon, and Cadillac has so many sedans industry observers and dealers say it missed the crossover trend.

And despite the fact that American companies are reshaping their lineups, sedans will still form a substantial portion of the vehicles sold in the U.S. for the foreseeable future.

"Although passenger car segments have declined over the last number of years, they are still very important," GM's Stevens said Thursday. "Small cars are important internationally, and they still make up a chunk of sales in the United States."

But crossover sales were largely what drove GM's earnings beat on Thursday, and the automaker's income was down because it had spent a lot of time retooling its factories — to build more trucks. Buick's best-selling model is the subcompact Encore crossover, and Cadillac's biggest debut this year has been the XT4, a model the company is making to finally catch up with rivals already in the luxury crossover segment.

Throughout the rest of 2018, GM's crossover sales should be strong enough to support margins despite costs from new truck launches, CFRA analyst Efraim Levy said in a note Thursday.

By 2022, almost 73 percent of all consumer vehicle sales in the United States are expected to be utility vehicles of some sort, and about 27 percent will be cars, according to auto industry forecasting firm LMC Automotive.

By that same time, LMC automotive expects 84 percent of GM's U.S. sales volume will be SUVs, crossover and trucks. Ford will be at 90 percent, and Chrysler at 97 percent.

So sedans and other cars are expected to still form more than a quarter of all consumer vehicle sales in the U.S., but the overall trend appears to be that American companies especially are giving up trying to sell cars to Americans.

What will they sell instead?

Detroit is already strong in pickups and large SUVs, such as the Cadillac Escalade and Lincoln Navigator, which is enjoying remarkably brisk sales after its first complete redesign in more than a decade. The Big 3 control almost 85 percent of the domestic pickup market, according to LMC Automotive, despite competitive products from foreign brands such as Toyota and Nissan.

And Ford, for example, will also double down on "authentic off-roaders," Ford President of Global Markets Jim Farley said on a conference call Wednesday. This includes trucks like the Raptor, and the upcoming reintroduced Ford Bronco, and an unnamed SUV. GM and Chrysler are entering this segment, too.

The second-largest U.S. automaker also plans to refresh its current lineup of SUVs and crossovers and create new products that fill "white spaces" in the market, essentially meaning the company will try to combine or tweak various designs or combinations of features to find new segments no other company is targeting yet. This means combining various elements of both cars and SUVs in ways that distinguish Ford's vehicles from what is already out there.

"We will have a very diverse passenger car business," Farley said on the call. "It just won't be traditional silhouetted sedans that tend to be commoditized."
In ditching cars and pursuing this strategy, Ford made a difficult choice, said Kelley Blue Book analyst Rebecca Lindland.

"I think this is one of the challenges that the Big 3 has faced, that they really had a tough time finding their way on the car side," Lindland told CNBC. "They have struggled for too long to be profitable, to be a full-line manufacturer, and they have made the hard decision to start over. The problem is they are so far behind."
Farley is very smart, Lindland said, and Ford has a catalog of vehicle platforms around the world they can search through to quickly develop some products. But it will be challenging.

"Even though they are starting fresh, they have to accelerate their timeline to get their products as soon as possible," she said. "I am driving a Toyota C-HR right now, which I believe is the kind of car they are thinking about making."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/26/ford-is-…

41 comments

Latest

Lone_Wolf
7 years ago
I found this very interesting. Makes me wonder if it is a kind of forward looking indicator of our debtor nation. We have millions of baby boomer reaching retirement that (most) will have nothing more than SS to live on which is not nearly enough. Not sure how much longer this house of cards will stay upright.

Good thing is the government just gave the 1%'s a huge tax break while, at the same time, increasing spending. Good times for them. Bad times for anyone needing a stable SS or Medicare in the long term. Time to party.
Jascoi
7 years ago
i’m surprised that the American vehicle market manufactures haven’t done this already. the hand writing is been on the wall for quite a long time... people here in the USA want big comfortable powerful vehicles. the modern pick up and SUV is kinda a carryover from the old days of automobiles in the United States prior to the high gas prices.

i have a couple of old suburbans that i would prefer to be driving most all the time if gas were a lot cheaper.
lolruned
7 years ago
It has a lot to do with a lack of innovation over the years. You need to be able to adapt and do it well in order to survive in a market saturated with tons of competitors
twentyfive
7 years ago
What they are doing really is conceding the market to a few luxury auto makers that make vehicles that people want to drive, and instead of trying harder, they are going to concentrate on making cars that will sell now. They aren't going to make SUV's like you guys are thinking about , more like small crossover vehicles, and that is a shame.
shadowcat
7 years ago
What are strippers going to do? I don't see many of them driving SUVs, pickups or Mustangs.
Jascoi
7 years ago
i’ll be their taxi in my bad ass prius.
galiziabob.sabbatical
7 years ago
Good. And don't buy from GM. They took the bailout and they suck. JD power give me a break.
RandomMember
7 years ago
Now if only Trump had imposed a 75% tariff on *all* imported cars.

Poof! problem solved.
Dominic77
7 years ago
Besides the market not choosing cars anymore, what also about regulations: fuel economy, emissions, etc. Plus it is expensive to develop a new vehicle platform, some say $2 billion figure or some of these latest platforms. What's the next bump, like 50 mpg? That a serious engineering effort for shrinking sales and margins. I see why the crossovers, SUVs, and trucks are so popular with auto markers if they come with builtin CAFE exemptions, plus they sell, are popular, and have nice margins for luxury trims.
Dominic77
7 years ago
crew cab picks seem to be the new Tahoe-for-guys, since the station wagon / minivan / SUV / CUV what moms drive to shuttle the kids around in. It seems like everything is a silver or beige crossover (CUV) these days. It's like women are driving all of the new vehicle buying decisions in most households.
shailynn
7 years ago
Eh well, I’ve owned 6 cars since my “adulthood” and they all have been SUVs
Dominic77
7 years ago
@Randommember, I get the joke. But we need to repeal the Chicken Tax. I usually trumpet the populist horn for labor but I need to break rank here. If we repeal the Chicken Tax, then we can get compact pickup trucks from (former) communist countries, and import them and sell them here for cheap. The problem is that won't pay for UAW wages and UAW pen$ions$$. I hear there's more $$ in healthcare and pensions in a new car than there is steel.. Crazy!

I think it will collapse soon. Either on its own. Or via a Koch-brothers Constitutional Amendment to require a balanced federal budget. If so, kiss non payroll SS, medicare, medicaid, and pensions goodbye.

reference:
https://www.prwatch.org/news/2017/06/132…
https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/…
http://bba4usa.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention…
RandomMember
7 years ago
Thanks for the references @Dominc.
jackslash
7 years ago
The Detroit auto makers are getting what they deserve. They charged Americans high prices for poor quality. They were all about profits and cared nothing about innovation. In the 1980's I bought my first BMW and I've driven nothing but German cars since.
twentyfive
7 years ago
All of this being true doesn’t change one simple fact, if they made cars that people wanted they would sell,Volkswagen, Toyota, Hyundai and many others are selling plenty of cars made here, in the United States with UAW workers sell just fine, problem with the Fords and GM autos is their piss poor quality and insistence that folks buy what they want to make rather than actually making cars people want.
Warrenboy75
7 years ago
GM is ahead of Ford---some years ago during the bailout GM shifted it's R&D and Marketing to China.....why? So there was more influence taken into consideration on what other nations wanted in the build of their vehicles. The move was just done very low key--and with the blessing of the Administration then because after all they shot the Constitution and about every law possible in the ass by what they did.

With Ford expect the same thing. The cuts come first --the new cars will be more global in design when they come to market.......and no it isn't good for the USA.

I'm mostly a Toyota guy and have been for years--I owned a Ford T Bird which was a great car but the last couple of GM's ( all prior to going Toyota) should have been painted yellow with little texture bumps all over them...........
Huntsman
7 years ago
I guess I’m forward thinking after all. I’ve driven Chevy Silverados and it’s predecessor for years. Are these cars you speak of these tiny pieces of medal buried in the snow banks that I see around here?
shailynn
7 years ago
Dom my soccer mom Mobile is black, thank you!
AnonymousJim
7 years ago
This annoys me greatly.

I hate SUVs. I'm sure they're big and comfortable, but they're also slow, hard to maneuver and not nearly as good in bad weather as everyone thinks. My Cruze corners at speed, uses far less gas and has more than enough space for everything I carry around. My only annoyance is that I can't see over all of you folks driving cars way bigger than you need, and can't get around you when you're clogging lanes and going five under the speed limit because you're afraid you'll tip over at the next turn. I've got places to go, the club included.

Buy smaller cars, people.
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
Have never been a SUV guy myself - have always liked/preferred smooth-riding sedans which I actually like more than SUVs in terms of how they drive and even often more comfortable (I'm not a huge guy - 5'10/190-lbs).

But I'm now considering buying a small-SUV (the 2018 Honda CRV) b/c it's easier to get in and out of - I look after my 88 y/o mom and my 81 y/o aunt and these days they have a harder time squatting down to get in and out of a sedan which is a bit lower - the small SUVs like the CRV have the seat more or less at hip/butt-level so just slide in and out.
max_starr
7 years ago
When my friends ask me where I get my news from.....I proudly point to my TUSCL.NET t-shirt.......No where better!
twentyfive
7 years ago
@Papi I did that when I brought my car two years ago, I brought a sedan instead of a coupe because I wanted to make it easier on my dad, getting in and out I know I didn’t buy an SUV but one problem with the smaller SUVs is the pillar between the front and back reduced the opening causes difficulties for older people lacking mobility, believe it or not it is easier to enter and exit a sedan than an SUV.
BTW my dad as you might remember sadly passed on less than two months after I purchased the vehicle.
ime
7 years ago
trend definitely seems to be moving away from large trucks and SUV's. Chevy Colorado / GMC Canyon is selling really well. Ford is reintroducing the Ranger and Bronco both on the same mid size chasis. Jeep Truck is another mid size truck that will sell well. They really need to start looking at better pricing.
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
@25

I checked out the Honda CRV small SUV at the recent Ft Lauderdale autoshow - def not a chick-magnet but seems pretty-practical for what i need - I practiced getting in and out of it and found it easier than anything else I saw (car or SUV) - it's very roomy for a small-SUV and the doors open at 90-degrees like it was the door to a house/home
twentyfive
7 years ago
Not to tell you what to do as far as car buying is concerned, take your mom with you, if she gets in easily than you’re fine, but if she finds the post limiting which my dad did reconsider, that’s all I’m saying.
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
^ !
Warrenboy75
7 years ago
Tint the windows on the SUV dark---works for rappers.....chicks love them.

I'd suggest driving a Toyota/Lexus SUV and then commenting on how slow and sluggish they are compared to AB-POS. The last two I bought get a fair amount of compliments, some surprised at how well they run.

And no offense but the Cruze is built at Lordstown Ohio---original factory of the Chevy Vega--many of the same workers decades later--same high standards of quality I'm sure.
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
This forum is very quiet today, dead.

But where I am f2f, things are unusually quiet, dead.

Don't know why. Feels strange.

SJG
Cashman1234
7 years ago
I’m not a fan of us auto makers. The long term quality isn’t what I want for my money.

Sadly the UAW has shot itself in both feet. A decent portion of the cost of new us autos goes to keeping the coffers of the UAW filled. If you eliminate the UAW overhead - they could manufacture autos with competitive prices - that aren’t substandard quality.

Big labor has killed another us industry.
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
Shouldn't workers have collective representation and bargaining?

SJG
Dominic77
7 years ago
I agree that it would help U.S. auto makers if they could build cars that people and the market truly wanted, instead of being shackled. :(

shai - you're rolling in an AMG. That's a tight ride. My old SUV used to pack a powertech V8, but it was soccer mom mobile silver, lol. The new hooptie truck has a gm vortec six fucking liter, a box of hollow points, and g-d willing a box of twinkies.

my main ride is a car, a hatchback, with a manual and a real clutch pedal. those imprezzas are really nice in the snow, but for the really deep stuff, I break out the truck.
Dominic77
7 years ago
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
I am reminded of a newspaper cartoon I saw back in the 80's. Let me update it just a little bit.

A congressman comes running back to his auto industry sponsor. "You don't have to worry, I've gotten you want you want. There will be no new safety or fuel efficiency standards passed this year."

The sponsor says, "Now, can you get it so that the foreign makers won't voluntarily raise their safety or fuel efficiency standards."

SJG

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rickdugan
7 years ago
After the shit that the domestic auto makers were turning out in the 80s and 90s, I doubt that I would ever trust them again anyway. I haven't driven a domestic vehicle in 15+ years, mostly because of all of the ridiculous problems I had with Ford and GM sedans in my youth. Transmission that would give out at 100k miles, poorly designed alternator rigs that would always put too much strain on the belts, never-ending electrical system and ignition switch issues, fuel systems that never seemed to work quite right, etc.,etc.

So fuck 'em. Toyota and Honda have dominated the U.S. sedan market for the last several years for a reason. It's not like we're losing automotive jobs because of it. Toyota is assembling its sedans in MS and KY and Honda is doing the same in OH and IN.
san_jose_guy
7 years ago
To those who tried to defend the domestic automakers, I always said, "I know that US workers are capable of far better. Its the US auto corporations which are a sorry disappointment."

SJG

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minnow
7 years ago
Like Papi, I'm just not a fan of SUV's (nor Cross Overs, even if Papi didn't mention it.) I favor sports cars and full size sedans. I might just have to look at getting first foreign car in over 3 decades.

@rick dugan- How long do you think a transmission should last ? The longest I've kept a car was ~140K miles (Mustang, manual transmission, no clutch problems). Had a 90's Deville with extended warranty that had problems just before 6 yr/70K miles point.
Others, please feel free to chime in on your experiences.
Papi_Chulo
7 years ago
My first car was a 6-y/o used 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix and it gave me more problems than dealing with a stripper OTC - my next 2 cars were Jap (Acura, Honda) - the Acura was 12 yrs old when I got rid of it (got it 4-yrs used and kept it for 8) mainly b/c I was moving 1200 miles away and didn't want to take it with me - the Honda I had for 18 years (bought new) and required little fixing until I had a recent accident that caused some engine issues and I didn't wanna fix it - currently driving a rental while I get into a new car
Dominic77
7 years ago
I expect or hope an automatic transmission to last 200K miles before needing service at a transmission shop. I always drop the pan and replace the trans fluid every 2 years. I had a 00's Jeep GC that needed auto trans service at 176K miles (I got it used with 93K miles). I had a 00's Honda Accord (bought at 60K miles, junked at 280K miles) and it never needed trans service. The maintenance records/receipts for my truck says a prior owner had $1K in trans service at 150K miles. I had a I expect a manual transmission to never need service beyond fluid changes, essentially 400K miles aka the life of the car, assuming the syncros haven't been subjected to lots of bad 1-2 shifts or bad 2-3 shifts.

Minnow, I've put upwards of 176K miles on a clutch without having to replace one, and it was used before I got it. Sadly I've had to put a new clutch in this 3 y/o CPO used Subraru (was 2 y/o when I bought it). I wasn't thrilled but maybe the car's clutch was misused before I got it? My jeep and my other mustang went to the junkyard without needing clutches (130K and 176K miles, respectively). The 1990 Mustang GT got a new clutch from the original owner when I bought it in 1998 with 50K miles. It has 84K miles now, without issues.
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