Why We Fight

I know some of the reasons why I club.

Basically the man my better half married I was more interesting when I visited strip cubs. Is womanizing part of who I am? Does the hormone testosterone play a role, being around other scantily clad women in a flirtatious environment help express that hormone in a positive way, that absent a SC like activity, changes me for the worse? Whatever it is, when I stopped going to strip clubs for the better part of a decade, part of me went away as odd as that sounds. Then re-introducing strip clubs and dancers brought it back.

The other reason is it is a reward for hard work. I work hard so I should be able to enjoy myself.

The final reason is there is no reason. I just like going. I don’t need to ask permission.

Damn I don't even know how to respond - many thoughts running through my head.

#1 - 85-90%? Wow that's high.

#2 - Of all the close friends I know that are married, and when I say close, close enough that we talk about infidelity, out of 7 guys I know, 6 have cheated and are still married. The one that hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) is an accountant and he's way too tight to spend any additional money on anything, it's not in his budget. Joking, he's really just not that type of guy.

#3 - Do you think, if spouses gave to every sexual desire a guy wanted, he wouldn't cheat? Like for the married guys, if you wife fucked you 5 times a week, dressed up in lingerie of your choice, always did her best to look hot for you would it stop you from strip clubbing and banging strippers? Or is it inevitable, no matter how hot your wife is (and I've seen plenty of beautiful women who are in their 50s) they still are 50 and can't compare to a 22 year old, and lets face it. I see fifteen 20 year olds and eleven of them are hot, I see fifteen 50 year olds and two of them are hot.

This is one topic I haven't thought much about since I'm not married. I think if I got married now, it would have to be deep commitment and love or insanity. The other possibility would be she is hot but she doesn't do certain sexual things often enough or at all. In that case she is failing to perform duties of a wife and guys have needs. I just saw a show on sex robots. They aren't perfected yet. Guys start thinking alternatives if their needs aren't met. Maybe it's true, some women may believe Bj's aren't necessary after marriage. In that case I can believe the 85% number. Plus some women call cheating just doing the slightest thing wrong. I once thought my ideal mate might be a hot sexy porn watching retired dancer who could still be working. Then we might be compatible if she was into me. I don't watch porn much but if I want to watch topless girls on the playboy channel washing expensive cars, don't need a preacher wife or girlfriend telling me everything wrong with that.

Men are much more likely to cheat if they either make much less money, or much more money, than their wife. The point where cheating is least likely is when a wife makes 75% of what her husband makes. True fact.

I ride motorcycles and play ball with a guy who makes good money (roughly 10x the median household in our area). He was with his wife when he was a poor college student and they're still together. She makes about $1,200 a month giving piano lessons out of their home on the nice grand piano he bought and for which they have a dedicated room.

He said things were great and they had enough until he started making over $100k about 3 years into his practice. At that point he tells me it started to seem he couldn't make enough money to make her happy and his income grew rapidly. She didn't have enough nice clothes. She was embarrassed to drive her family car (was an Infinity not a BMW). Their dream house, which they built, was no longer big enough. She needed a sewing room and a craft room and a bigger kitchen, oh, and the second staircase was too narrow. The treadmill needs its own room, not shared with the sun room (which is huge). Every night he would come home and listen to all of these complaints. She spent her $1,200 each month just on clothes plus another $2,000 on credit cards every couple of months. The only concession she's made is that he won't pay her CC bills anymore if she spends more than what she earns on clothes.

She stopped dressing up and he only sees her naked when they have sex. She doesn't even bother to put on the nice lingerie she has.

What did he do? He found a local college girl on SA and pays for her to have her own nice apartment. At a minimum twice per week he takes his lunch break, goes to the apartment, and she opens the door dressed in lingerie and a huge smile. For an hour he's with a young, beautiful woman and he says he doesn't hear an ounce of negative talk...just her paying attention to him in whatever way he wants, which is usually watching her dance around, rubbing his back, and giving him a BJ (his wife won't blow him because it "makes her jaw hurt").

My SO and I went to dinner with this couple this last weekend. Wednesday morning we were shooting hoops at the gym and he asked if I noticed the 3 girls who were leaving the restaurant as we were coming in. I said I did and he said she was the one with perky tits in a white off-shoulder blouse. They had looked at us and smiled as we opened the doors for them to come out, but I had absolutely no indication they've had this ongoing relationship for over a year. She was a pro.

As far as I know he doesn't club like I do but I totally get why he's doing what he's doing and he's only 35 and his wife is 32. He hasn't said so but I imagine he'll divorce her when his kids move out of the house in the next 10-12 years. He did tell me he got additional ownership in his firm but instead of taking it on personally, he set it up as a trust for his 3 kids (he's in some type of estate litigation). I imagine he did this to limit the amount of money he'll eventually owe the ex without penalizing his children.

The crux of the issue is that when he really got into the money, it was never enough and that changed their whole relationship. Although I would consider the money involved in his life to be out of the ordinary, I don't think the reasons for straying are too unusual, i.e. not enough sex and a woman who hounds him about meeting her lifestyle expectations.

You guys must be fucking geniuses because every recent study on why men cheat came up with the same conclusion: lack of appreciation. Unsurprising that those who pay for sex believe everything is about money.

You have to have money to strip club regularly. When I was young and supporting a wife and kids, I occasionally went to strip clubs, but most of my money had to be used for mortgage payments, food and clothing, college educations, savings and investments, IRAs, and other nonsense. Now I'm single again and retired. My children are grown, educated, employed, and married. My house is paid for, I paid cash for my BMW, and instead of investing I am enjoying returns on my investments. I have money left over every month.

What I want to do is get married again...NOT! I want to travel and play around with hot young women. I was a serious, hard-working, faithful husband for too much of my life. Now I just want to have fun.

My wife's a working professional, she's good to me, and I cheat on her anyway. The cheating is meaningless, immoral, and fun. There's not much more to it than that.

Current SB is from an affluent family out-of-state and goes to a private school nearby on athletic scholarship. She's been accepted to law school next year. Italian, jet-black silky hair down to her waist, slender, very outgoing. San Francisco liberal, so we have a lot in common. She drives a BMW and I drive an Infiniti.

What's the difference between a human being and a BMW? With a human being the asshole is on the outside.

That involved way too much thinking for my tastes. I had to stop near the end of the first post.

Look, guys with means have been getting side action since forever and many use paid girls because it is comes with far fewer complications. I don't think that it is any more complicated than that.

Some of the content makes a lot of sense looking back over the years at friends and how their relationships turned out and it also fills in a few blanks I've had over the years on my own behaviour.

I make good money and I have for years and I'm in the same boat as jackslash for the most part with the exception I still help out my kids and my grandkids a lot. ( not saying he isn't but his comments don't reflect it) and I still have money left over at the end of each and every month.

I've hit all my retirement goals--granted I don't have a few things I could have if I didn't monger ( monger being a universal term for SA, clubs, and occasional escorts)

I remember when a good friend of mine got married for a second time we all joked at his party the weekend before that the key to his second marriage working out is if his future wife screwed his brains out every night of the week and twice on Sunday. If she did he wouldn't have the desire or the energy to go looking elsewhere. She did......for the first five years. He was divorced in seven.

The other point I would say and this is more my own history--I was more into sports when I was in HS and even college than chasing girls and when it came to dating I really didn't hit my stride until my very late 20's. And I started to make decent money a few years later and started to travel all over the US for my job. So I do fit the criteria -- I have the money and I have the freedom and I admit I have always been bored easily.

"...the key to his second marriage working out is if his future wife screwed his brains out every night of the week and twice on Sunday."

Really, this sentiment comes up so often on TUSCL. Why would anyone get married for sex? There are so many other things that are more important like common values, intelligence, empathy, compatibility...you name it.

They are important but if you are looking to keep a guy happy it seems to me sex is very important. You can name all the other things more important as you phrase it ( and I don't disagree) but from examples I have seen in failed marriages or even marriages that survive but have problems the common denominator is a lack of a physical relationship followed closely by how each partner views money.

I’m not sure of the true motivations behind cheating or fights/nagging among spouses. From a man’s view - we are more basic creatures. We need food, drink, shelter, sex, a working toilet, a job and transportation. Generally, if we are working, our minds are focused on work.

Women are different. That’s about all the insight I have on them.

Men need hobbies. Women nag their men. Men don’t enjoy nagging. Men enjoy their hobbies.

My hobby is clubbing. I don’t have a model railroad set, I don’t get worked up over fast cars, I don’t play golf, I don’t give a shit about the size of my house, etc.

I enjoy hanging out with my dog. He doesn’t nag me. I know he would love a bigger food bowl - lol! But I can deal with that!

Bacon!!

For me, it's a shortcut to fucking women who are out of my league without dealing with the complexity of a romantic relationship. It's that simple.

Which is why I don't understand guys who forcibly inject so much manufactured drama and complexity into what should be a simple relationship.

I club because I can afford it.

Variety is my reason. in 2014 I played 88 rounds of golf on 72 different course. Same with strippers.

"A man is only as faithful as his options." Chris Rock

@shailynn wrote, “Do you think, if spouses gave to every sexual desire a guy wanted, he wouldn't cheat?” @randommember wrote, ”My wife's a working professional, she's good to me, and I cheat on her anyway.” @rickdugan wrote, “Look, guys with means have been getting side action since forever.” @warrenboy75 wrote, “I have the money and I have the freedom and I admit I have always been bored easily.” @cashman1234 wrote, “From a man’s view - we are more basic creatures. We need food, drink, shelter, sex, a working toilet, a job and transportation.” @skibum609 wrote, “Variety is my reason.”

^Writing it mainly because I was overcoming my long standing objection that getting side action was somehow a flaw of real men or a failing that showed lack of character in being a real man. Really it is just meaning less and not any more complicated than that. I'm just going to go the extra step and be a jerk and at least tell her I'm doing it. That part is still important character to me.

Dominic posted: --->"Really it is just meaning less and not any more complicated than that. I'm just going to go the extra step and be a jerk and at least tell her I'm doing it. That part is still important character to me."

Don't confuse character with a selfish desire to relieve guilt. If you do it, you'll be doing it for yourself, not for her. All that you'll be doing for her is causing her pain so that you can feel a little bit better about yourself. Burdening her with that is weakness, not character.

^^^Holy shit Dugan just said something that I actually agree with, maybe pigs can fly.

25, that just shows that you can actually be lucid once in a while. ;)

^^^Maybe it shows that you might be growing up.

^^^Or it could show that even a broken clock like you is right twice a day.

When I'm in a relationship, I don't cheat. But I'm no longer interested in relationships so I don't have to worry about what I do with strippers.

@Dugan just goes to show you really are an ass, I.m sure that you'll have another snappy come back. As usual the man with the system, just don't got it.

^^^Of course 25, nobody gets it but you. You are one of the most arrogant jackasses I've ever seen on a discussion board, even by troll standards.

Hey now, I'm much more arrogant than 25.

^^^Don't worry flag, the term "one of the most" left room for you too. Of course you hide it better than 25. ;)

“Of course 25, nobody gets it but you. You are one of the most arrogant jackasses I’ve ever seen on a discussion board, even by troll standards.”

LMAO

As you retards proved I’m talking Dugan & Fishsticks, I intentionally used “got” you just don’t got it. Proving you idiots don’t “get” it!

I say that the normative life of marriage is actually death. And so normative relationships revolve around this.

Strip clubs and P4P show that maybe there is a potential for something different. And the women in high heels and makeup, the visuals, the dolling up, are a big part of making this happen.

But strip clubs alone do not really solve anything, they only show you that things might be able to be different.

To go beyond this is a big project.

SJG

Rick, I agree with you there but I was sort of thinking past that. FWIW, I agree with you that it causes her pain. Broadly speaking, consider two parts that often comprise a single quantum event of “cheating”: (A) relations with the other woman and (B) the deception component that breaks trust. It seems that most women get past ‘A’ pretty quickly but ‘B’ takes more time to heal, if ever. I was figuring I’d control the narrative and address ‘B’ out of the gate. What’s you’re strategy for ‘B’? Never get caught? Or it is an understood / unstated white lie, so that even if found out, trust isn’t broken?

You’ve given me more to think of, and quite frankly, the Mrs agrees with you. So that’s enough for me causing me to re-evaluate more a white lie approach. If anything this seems like net-net a win-win (for us and for the wives). What I had proposed caused a lot of pain for both sides in exchange for an honesty ‘ideology’ that benefits no one. Not really a selfish desire or at least that wasn’t what I was striving for. Rather I thought I’d take the moral high ground and pre-pay the pain upfront on the maxim that: the truth comes out eventually.

Does the truth ever come out eventually? do you agree with that maxim? Or do you think you can keep the dancer mongering from her indefinitely? That sounds like your approach. And the approach I’ll now take, too.

Thanks for responding.

Dominic, so your thinking is that you'd prefer to cause her guaranteed pain today in order to avoid the potential for pain tomorrow?

Also, who says that it ever has to come out? Are you afraid that you're going to have some weak moment in the future and spill your guts? Don't, it's your secret to live with. She may suspect, but if you are discreet and don't throw it in her face, the the odds are good that it won't surface as a marriage changing issue. Most women over a certain age are not naive, especially when they pass menopause and their sexual desire diminishes dramatically. And if she does air suspicions, which I find unlikely unless you are sloppy, deny, deny, deny. Most women will take plausible denial and run with it, especially long time married women.

Unless, of course, what you are really looking for is an out from your marriage. Then by all means throw it in her face. :)

Rick, Oh, no! I'm actually trying to spare her pain. So what you write about it never has to come out being able to function a keep a secret is useful guidance. Heck, if you can keep what you do hidden, and you're pretty active with your activities, then I can with trivial activities I might ever do. FWIW I tend to agree with your assessment of non-naivete in women in stable, loving LTRs with men who have been good providers. In no way am I looking for an out. I'm just wondering why I've been dumb all these years in holding back my urges. That's all.

Thanks, buddy!

In my opinion, marriage is a death trap. But cheating on your wife is not a long term solution to anything. We do though have Swinger's Clubs, and they are mostly Republicans.

SJG

Dominic the issue becomes one if P4P is your main source sex or if you decide to take a break and find you can't. In either case you have a problem and the problem is going to eventually impact the marriage.

^^^^^^^^^ Amen.

SJG

It is really sad that The Family became the dominant economic unit. And Comrade Engels was explaining this now over 140 years ago.

SJG