Just Enjoy the Fantasy (No Need to be Jaded)

Along the same train of thought I'm curious if any strippers have customers that are jaded and don't care to be talked up and just want a physical "service".

I consider myself honest and self-aware, not jaded. My profession allowed me to figure out years ago that relationships that are solely or partly based on money are not real. That is why these relationships are not real. Was my last CR real? Possibly, but experience says real for pay 4 play is not real life real. Was there affection? Yes. Emotion? Yes. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Do I pray for an exact repeat? Yes. Would I ever see her in real life? Hell no. Through poverty, aging, family tragedy, job losses, illness, my wife has been there for me and I have been there for. That is real. The sex we have had and have? Better. That's my real.

^ That's pretty much how I see it too. But also there can be some "real" between a customer and stripper and it doesn't have to mean they are going to have a "real" OTC relationship because of it.

What skibum609 said.....with the addition that if some of the older more experienced guys didn't warn the newer members of what can happen and to share with you their experiences this board wouldn't have much value. Understand you can have P4P and have emotion and caring.....just realize in many cases you will not and in others even if you do the P4P element is the tie that binds.

To me SS is more when you are being hustled--and not in a good way--or worse out and out lied to, which also does happen.

Ok I can agree to real on those terms. My last experience was real, except for location. Lifetime memory.

@Warrenboy75 It just seems to me that a lot of the vets give that warning to the younger guys almost obsessively because often it isn't even the point of the thread.

Methinks the most jaded are the ones that fell for it a SS in the past. Some guys never fall for it to begin with and thus aren't so jaded about it.

I get what you’re saying but sometimes the connection feels real enough that crashing back to the reality of it being all about the money is painful. It’s one thing to say don’t get emotionally attached, and another to have the self control to do it. I’m not jaded and I don’t hate all strippers now but I’m definitely more circumspect about this, let’s call it a hobby, than I was before.

^^^ I don’t think any of the regular posters here hate strippers well maybe Dugan but he hates on women and everyone else as well, but if you aren’t having a good time then you are doing it rong.

^^^yes SJG is a hater as well.

Dopamine and Oxytocin are addiction agents. I think a lot of PLs need to be reminded that even if it feels real, it is just a chemical reaction like any drug, strippers serve as the dealers of these drugs. And no matter how friendly or close a dealer is to his clients the dealer's agenda is to get money for drugs, never confuse that. And don't get so hooked you become a junkie.

@twentyfive To me SJG can no longer distinguish his SS fantasy from reality. He doesn't realize that DFK in the front room is the same thing as any other service. He's at the extreme other end of my point. And he needs the emotional fantasy much more than the physical one. The emotional fantasy is his TUSCL "raison d'etre".

But yes he's a hater as well.

In certain cases, when other PL’s point out an interaction being SS, it’s similar to someone repeating a mantra.

They might say they are saying it so nobody will fall for SS. But I think they might be trying to lessen their pain of falling for SS in the past.

I view strip clubs as being their own parallel universe. What happens in a club is real when you are in the club. The experience is definitely real - but the connection won’t exist on the outside. It’s almost like a bizzarro world - where all the women find me desirable - and the women are all loose. The caveat is - it will continue as long as I remain inside the club - and as long as I have money.

I have no issue with the reality or lack of reality - found in strip clubs. I enjoy the memories. I also enjoy the attention. It’s a very good time.

I think you're overthinking it SL. Being realistic is not the same as being jaded. if you've been reading the board for a while, you'll notice that many on here have one or more favorites that they visit repeatedly. Why do you really think that is? Here's a hint: it is more than just about the "physical fantasy", which they could get from any girl willing to take cash for p4p.

So being realistic about things, we will make jokes when dancers do something over the top like walk a guy to the door or say something that's obviously not true. For the same reason, we give guys who get too caught up in it a little grief. But none of that means that we don't enjoy our own interactions with dancers. It's not black and white SL.

Once you get into OTC world where you’re in more or less constant flirty contact with a hot girl that you’re fucking on the regular outside of the club it gets a lot harder to keep things professional.

And in this sense, strippers lack the professionalism of an escort who has set clear boundaries on her time and emotional involvement. A stripper might not fully understand that if she repeatedly gives a client the impression she actually likes him- and especially if she actually does like him- that things are going to get messy, because they generally aren’t thinking that far ahead. That definitely happened to me. I know she probably did like me a little bit, but she liked the money more. I just let myself forget that and it was a big mistake.

TUSCL is a *discussion* board, meaning that not everyone has the same opinion - it seems to me that you are the one obsessed w/ your viewpoint where you keep continuously pushing it to the point of creating threads about-it - you come across as if your viewpoint is the only correct-one and there is something wrong, e.g. "jaded", w/ someone that does not see things the way you do.

TUSCL is about expressing one's opinion and passing on information from those that have been doing it a long-time - being "jaded" is not as much of an issue as the countless guys that get ripped-off and sometimes emotionally-wrecked thinking/feeling that is anything more than pay-for-play.

No one says you don't have a right to your opinion or SCing the way you want, but you seem to have issues w/ those that that don't see it the way you do and express a counter-viewpoint - if you wanna state your opinion/preferences on a discussion board, then you need to accept others expressing theirs and not agreeing w/ you - you seem to have created a "fantasy-bubble" around your CF and seem to get all bent out of shape when it seems someone may burst your bubble.

Stop making such a big-deal about those that don't agree w/ you nor see things your way, and stop calling them names ("jaded") just b/c they don't see things your way and choose not to bask in a fake-reality - in the end everyone is an individual w/ individual opinions and individual ways of SCing from the guy that never buys a dance or VIP and prefers to make-it-rain $100s, to they guy that never buys a dance b/c he's all about extras and/or OTC. - everyone has a preference and everyone has a right to disagree.

@Cashman1234 agreed.

@rickdugan I'm saying the jaded ones are the ones that see it as black and white. It may not be you and other vets, but again there are some that will see anything posted about a positive emotional interaction with a stripper as an automatic (i.e. black and white) flag that the PL is becoming a RIL. This is my point and I understand yours and agree the emotional connections with strippers are not just black and white.

@Papi_Chulo LMAO you are still so jaded. Is it because you fell for emotional SS once?

If you don't like my posts or threads, you can follow your own advice and stop obsessing about me sharing my views. How hypocritical of you to call me out for the same thing you are doing.

LOL you're the one that plays the SS / only business card on any thread where the topic comes up. From my perspective you're the obsessed one about it.

If you read my posts more carefully, I am SEEKING TO UNDERSTAND and GAIN A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. Hence this thread, of which is the first one related to this topic.

The difference b/w you and me is that I accept others opinions w/o calling them names ("jaded") - my issue is not w/ you having your opinion, it's w/ you not accepting others not agreeing w/ you as if your viewpoint is "the gold standard" and beyond reproach and anyone that disagrees w/ it is b/c they're wrong/"jaded" and your're the one that's right.

SL posted: "I'm saying the jaded ones are the ones that see it as black and white."

You're basing your belief upon jokes and comments that you see here. What's posted here is far from the totality of what these guys are doing and seeing ITC.

For example, yes we make jokes about some girl walking a guy to the door. Why? First, because it is both over the top and, second, seasoned club hounds know through experience that some girls do it to make sure that the guy is actually leaving. having a laugh over that doesn't mean that we don't also go to a club and enjoy a dancer's company for more than the pure physical elements.

@SDL to gain a different perspective you need to listen with an open mind, Papi’s point is more than fair.

I fall for the SS every time I go to the club. Because I want to. It's all fantasy to me. Yes, it's all SS, but isn't it fun to experience fantasyland (or Bizarro World) for all it has to offer?

You just have make sure to flip that switch when you walk out the doors.

@Papi_Chulo you are making a huge assumption that I don't accept any response. All I've ever said is I PERSONALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND OR DON'T WANT TO BECOME LIKE A JADED PL. I never said it was wrong nor did I ever say I can't accept it. In fact, this thread allows those that don't agree with me to elaborate further, because, again, I AM SEEKING TO UNDERSTAND.

So that we can get back to the discussion...

...is part of your attitude based on falling emotionally for a stripper IRL? (This is a simple yes or no fucking question that you don't have to read into anymore than it is verbatim.)

And sorry if you took such offense to me using the word jaded. LOL in the grand scheme of TUSCL insults, IMHO I am surprised you are so 'jaded' about it being so insulting.

@rickdugan I'm not talking about you or your examples that you bring up. And no I'm not basing it on jokes.

@twentyfive I am listening with an open mind. All Papi_Chulo has to do is share his views on why he thinks the way he does. Instead he takes offense like a jaded PL and attacks me based on false assumptions. And all butt hurt just 'cause I used the word jaded.

Dude, chill out.
Go smoke some reefer and relax.
No need for the negative vibes.
Ya Dig?

"You're basing your belief upon jokes and comments that you see here."

Right. We all like to yuck it up about stripper addicts and drunk driving. Not that that's over the top, or anything.

^ don't forget valor stealing and statutory rape.

@flagooner Agreed. And my point is that a PL can share a physical fantasy fulfilled experience freely here and there are no jaded PLs that jump on it and state the obvious that it's all SS and business. But then the same PL shares the emotional side of a fantasy fulfilled and immediately a guy (like Papi_Chulo often does) will be all over it, question the "legitimacy" of the strippers intentions, make it clear it is SS and all business as if the PL is an RIL, and make it more than a PL simply sharing his wonderful fantasy experience which included both physical and emotional fantasies.

@flagooner I got no negative vibes. I think others need to chill. I'm laughing at how bent out of shape guys are getting over this.

Being on TUSCL long-enough, if one learns anything is that different PLs like different things from the type of girl they like to the type of experience they prefer - PLs are often gonna disagree w.r.t. dancer and SCing preference and it's pretty-much futile to try to convince others that their style is the right-one; but doesn't mean one can't not express their pro/con views.

Ok SL, so your point is that you would like to be able to come on here and share your emotional fantasy with a stripper without some jaded PL like Papi busting into the thread and pissing all over it. Is that about the size of it?

^ hey, I may pee all over it but I'm not pooping all over it; I have class

@rickdugan You really should just read my first post. My point is actually to understand why a guy like Papi_Chulo became so jaded when it comes to talking about emotional interactions with strippers. It really is that simple. Thank you for asking for clarity rather than assuming you know my point.

@Papi_Chulo it's not anything about peeing vs pooping on a thread or doing it with class or not. LOL you still avoid my simple yes / no question which is simply asking you to share your perspective because I'm curious about it. Your lack of response to it is starting to speak volumes.

@Papi_Chulo please stop making the straw man argument that I'm not allowing you to express your views. You come into threads with the attitude that you are simply expressing your own view and I'm doing the same thing. You are making the straw man argument that I'm trying to convince you to change how you or others see things when I'm just doing the same damn thing you are doing.

But what I'm not doing is making the assumption (like you keep doing with me) that you are trying to tell me how to club and getting pissy with you about it.

If you want to make this a discussion like you preach, then make it a discussion rather than creating assumptions about what I'm doing.

SL posted: "My point is actually to understand why a guy like Papi Chulo became so jaded when it comes to talking about emotional interactions with strippers. It really is that simple. "

Maybe because getting involved in emotional interactions with strippers is stupid? ;)

Sorry - you were rambling so much that I did not detect you were asking me a direct-question vs just obsessively defending your POV.

To answer your question, which probably won't do much good b/c you are obsessed w/ not looking beyond/outside your fantasy-bubble - I don't go to strip-clubs looking to fill my emotional-needs - as others post on here from time-to-time "a strip-club is not a girlfriend supermarket" - I do not enjoy pretending or diluting myself that a girl I'm paying $$$ to is doing anything more than just her job and what's best for her which is getting paid - I don't dilute myself into thinking it's anything more than business except in rare occasions - pretending that a girl I'm paying may have "some kind of feeling for me" or that I'm somehow special beyond my $$$, does not do anything for me, so I post my experience/POV - for those that use SCs for emotional/relational fulfillment, it's their $$$ and they should SC as they like; I see it differently and thus post my POV just as they post theirs.

@Papi_Chulo I truly do understand your view now and thank you.

But to be clear I created this thread specifically to see beyond what you call my "fantasy bubble". It's not an obsession (<- there you go again with your straw man arguments), it is a curiosity and something that I've been wanting to DISCUSS on the ... wait for it ... TUSCL DISCUSSION BOARD!

And to my point, you are still supporting my point that you assume others that enjoy more than the physical interaction (unlike you) that they really feel the stripper "has some kind of feeling" in order to enjoy it. That it "does something" for others (unlike you) does NOT mean that PL is trapped in an emotional fantasy bubble or anything of the sort! So thank you for yet again demonstrating my point! I appreciate the ... wait for it ... DISCUSSION!

^ at best it is a curiosity.

"... I truly do understand your view now and thank you ..."

I don't think you're genuine - obviously the only way I'd know you were being genuine is if we SCed together and then you walked me to the door when I was ready to leave

@Papi_Chulo And to be clear, you still seem to assume that a PL has to believe the emotional fantasy is real in order to enjoy it. Like you thinking I'm trapped in some "emotional fantasy bubble" or that a PL is starting to think a stripper has "some kind of feelings" for him just because he has a good emotional time with her. That's been one of my points.

So if you are going to take a high ground and classy approach to having an open minded discussion, I suggest you look back at all your own false assumption about what others think and why they do. It *may* give you a different perspective on your own view! (<- see how I don't ever make an outright claim on how YOU think?)

@Papi_Chulo LOL you are creating an argument when there never was one and it starts with you making false assumptions. And then not believing I'm genuine about understanding your perspective is yet another of many examples you keep demonstrating in this thread. (Ironically in the process of claiming moral "high ground" on how you just want a discussion to share your views.)

I'm glad you are happy clubbing based on physical fantasy alone. It makes sense and is simple. But just like you say yourself, other PLs are happy with the multitude of fantasies provide. And they don't have to be RILs or trapped in some sort of ignorant bubble. That's where you go beyond making just your point.

SL, for some reason you seem bent out of shape that experienced PLs put reality into their posts. They are providing a service to other relative newbs who may not fully grasp the actual dynamic, lest they fall into a RIL trap and get Dadillaced

Fantasyland is for the club, not for this discussion board.

@Papi_Chulo Seriously if you are ever in Portland and want to know where to go to get your freak on with some fine big booty sistas, lemme know. LOL I would have no issue walking you to the door in a strip club that we both enjoyed for our fantasies. And I know the right Portland clubs for Papi_Chulo mode strippers. They are hard to find in this city of scrawny and tatted out spinners.

:)

@flagooner again you make assumptions about what I'm "bent out of shape" on. It's simply wanting to have a discussion about different PL perspectives which is what this discussion board is for.

But it seems like you have an issue with members sharing opinions that you don't like.

If you want to live in fantasy land when you go the club, there's nothing wrong with that, I suppose. I prefer to live in reality. I may fantasize when I seem some appealing eye candy, like I guess most guys do, but what I really like to do is turn that fantasy into reality, ideally back at my hotel.

If everybody would just smoke more weed then we could all get along.

@flagooner posted > "But it seems like you have an issue with members sharing opinions that you don't like."

It seems to me you don't want to accept my explanation that it's not about having an issue but rather having an open an honest discussion on our ... wait for it ... DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES. What you think I think is an issue is just having a discussion over differences.

If you don't agree with my explanation and correction to your false assumption about MY thoughts, I'm sorry because I've clarified the same point to you multiple times now. There's nothing more that I can do, so falsely assume all you want!

^^ JS69 is correct.

@Papi_Chulo Just to continue our discussion, LOL I just looked back and noticed that you never really answered my question. So as not to have further confusion and to limit false assumptions being made, I specifically asked: "...is part of your attitude based on falling emotionally for a stripper IRL?"

Your answer was > "To answer your question, which probably won't do much good b/c you are obsessed w/ not looking beyond/outside your fantasy-bubble - I don't go to strip-clubs looking to fill my emotional-needs - as others post on here from time-to-time "a strip-club is not a girlfriend supermarket" - I do not enjoy pretending or diluting myself that a girl I'm paying $$$ to is doing anything more than just her job and what's best for her which is getting paid - I don't dilute myself into thinking it's anything more than business except in rare occasions - pretending that a girl I'm paying may have "some kind of feeling for me" or that I'm somehow special beyond my $$$, does not do anything for me, so I post my experience/POV - for those that use SCs for emotional/relational fulfillment, it's their $$$ and they should SC as they like; I see it differently and thus post my POV just as they post theirs."

So just to be clear, from my perspective you never really answered my question. But that's OK by me because you ultimately discussed your own view regardless of answering it directly. It's almost irrelevant now to answer it but I just wanted to point it out.

And so now, so you understand MY perspective (which is mine and mine alone and I make no presumption or allusion as to others being "wrong" because they don't see it this way) the reasons that I enjoy the emotional connection on top of the bare minimum need to fulfill the physical one are

...because I'm an LDK PL, don't want extras or FS, so my entire club fantasy experience in its entirety is a fantasy. So I'm seeking to have a full on fantasy experience. An LDK is a simulated fantasy of FS. As is her telling me I'm handsome, that I have a big dick, and walking me to the door on my way out. All of it actually helps me enjoy and enhance that bare minimum physical need to LDK and "get off" physically. And to be clear, I can understand how an extras or FS guy thinks all the emotional role play is BS and just wants to get down and dirty, but for me having LDKed purely from a physical service all the way to the GFE LDK service, I can say for sure the physical fantasy of FS through an LDK is always better with some intimacy and emotion and GFE. And yes I say this with knowing full well that it is all fake.

... because it's just fun to role play. A stripper is supposed to be this hot sexy lady that would never give you the time of day IRL both physically and emotionally, so why not play into your "fake" interaction with her on all levels and have fun with the complete fantasy of it? Again I have had plenty of physical only and mechanical LDKs with strippers like that only and by comparison the GFE strippers are just more fun to spend my money on (at no difference in cost).

Again to be clear, this is my experience and opinion alone. I share it to have a discussion as per my original post and thread topic. Since you shared your view (and thanks) I'm just sharing mine in return.

Wow. Did I just read all that ? I think I need a lap dance ... ha ha

I have to be careful when I go to the SC, to keep it just physical. I am married. Don't need anything more than a nice high contact dance with an in shape, smaller girl, then go home and have some fun. Maybe that's why my fav is 5ft 2in, Latina with b cups. It's difficult though. I bought spring training tickets for her because she has never been but she really wants to go, and I want to go with her but damn it's not right. Just need to keep it to lap dances and ITC so I stay out of trouble.

i can hope she really cares.

PLs are different, obviously, or not so obviously. PLs SC for different reasons. Some go for the fantasy and the imagined or real fulfillment of said fantasy. Some might go for ejaculation services/extras. Some might go to have their egos stroked. Some might go for some imitation of GFE. Some might go to cultivate stripper "relationships" or work a "system" for eventual OTC. Some might just go for eye candy/stage. Some might just go for physical companionship and flirtation. Some might just go to enjoy lap dances from their preferred strippers. Some might go for front room action. Some might just go to see a specific girl. Some might go just to drink and enjoy the scenery/atmosphere. Or some combination of these. Or something else entirely. Even within each of these reasons, which are far from complete, there are just as many different ways of going about them as well as how much you spend. Some reasons may be considered "wrong" or pathetic or chumpish or RIL from someone with a different reason. I maintain that unless someone is getting unequivocally ripped off/taken advantage of (as opposed to just subjectively overpaying) or getting to the point where this "hobby" is being detrimental to one's physical, mental, emotional, financial or social health or his relationships, only that person can decide for himself if his reasons are "wrong".

Every now and then (and the longer a PL does this, it becomes more likely), a PL might get a certain reality check or two. At some point, the exact same experience isn't quite as satisfying for any number of reasons. It could be because of the stripper or it could be because of the PL or both. Both PLs and strippers evolve. And not necessarily for the better. It could even be club related. The industry as a whole also evolves. Or the value just doesn't seem there considering the amount of money spent. In any case, absence doesn't always make the heart grow fonder, nor does familiarity always breed contempt, to overuse a couple cliches. The PL may get an epiphany or some more clarity of the situation and never see things the same way again. The PL may decide to go less and/or spend less, or do things very differently. Does that mean that all that the money and time he spent before was wasted or not worth it? Now this is where you might factor in "jadedness" or perspective as well as Einstein's definition of insanity. The way i look at it, is if i enjoyed the experience back then and felt it was worth it then, than that is all that matters or mattered regardless of how i might feel now. Going forward, however, is a different story.

yes. now i must liquidate stuff to continue my wonderful addiction of beautiful lovely ladies... i learned too slowly... too expensively... it was much fun. butt... i simply need to get another job to fund my dreams...

@SL

Why are you so obsessed with why he feels the way he does? He simply writes his version, his advice, his perceptions. Why can't you just take it or leave it without accusing him of being jaded?

I said it SEEMS like you don't like opposing opinions. If I missed your explanation, it's because I got bored reading your loooooong comments.

@flagooner why are you patronizing SLD ?

Can't we all just get along?

^ LOL.

Some of the posts in this thread are dangerously close in length to SJG posts.

I’ll just leave it at that...