LE

Didn't New York City see its share of strip club raids not too long ago? The Northeast isn't totally immune from them. I don't think any region can be forever. It definitely goes beyond the Bible belt. If you think you're safe, look at San Francisco. That was the last place anybody expected raids until a few years ago.

I agree that raids are political speed bumps. Reports of the sky falling to the contrary, panic is entirely optional.

I almost hear about a particular regular club sometimes being a nuisance with a few bad apples having a gunfight outside the club in the parking lot but it often seems to be the same club and same people visiting that club. Strip clubs I believe will often try to keep such people away since they don't want bad publicity. Every club is different though. I keep reading that crime in general is a lot lower at strip clubs than it is at a regular club or bar. I wouldn't be surprised if people who are not familiar would think crime is everywhere. A lot of strip clubs have security cameras all over the place and occasional visits from the police as well as undercover people. I think a lot of the bad apples aren't as stupid as the ones we always hear about on the news. In a way, LE is helping to keep strip clubs in business if they cause the crime rate to stay lower at strip clubs than it is at all of the regular bars and nightclubs. I guess that may be an extra benefit to having the police do an impromptu inspection of the neighborhood titties.

IGU: Interesting about the friend of yours that works in the Civil War era train station. The train station that my office is tucked in isn't nearly that old, I think it was built around 1912, or there abouts... I don't really remember. Like I said, the security is very tight and entrance into our actual office and datacenter requires three verifications of who you are... first you have to scan an ID card, then you place a finger into the reader and it scans your finger print (also verifies that a pulse exists so that someone can't cut a digit off and place it in the reader), then a personal code has to be entered - if we purposely enter the code in reverse, the PD is automaticall called and units dispatched. In light of recent events, that's good to know.

UPDATE: In a previous post, I mentioned that two bodies were discovered within a few hundred yards of the entrance to my office Tues morning... well, Friday there were two more discovered about a half block further away.. .four dead bodies, all murdered, with three days of each other...

Sure glad the clubs aren't around here to cause problems, though... [sarcasm]

Another point about the supposed ancillary effects of strip clubs. Here in New Orleans, the strip clubs are the places where prostitution and drug dealing DON'T occur. We've got our biggest crime wave ever, and none of it can be pinned on strip clubs. The prostitutes come to town for the manual laborers and DON'T dance; the murders and the drug dealing are all going on in sections of town where the strip clubs are NOT. It's pretty clear, here, that the strip clubs are actually contributing to a "safer" vice-oriented atmosphere rather than a more dangerous one, for the general non-patron citizen. I think that type of "self policing" situation COULD be the case at almost any club in any jurisdiction in America, if only the Puritans would stop getting their necks out of joint; but NOOOOO, they'd rather create a situation in which murder and crime is INCREASED for the general populace by eliminating the necessary pressure valve ...

There aren't any strip clubs in the small town I live in so the cops have to resort to just busting up druggies, catching drunk drivers, and doing all the sort of police work everyone wishes they would focus on. I'm used to driving everywhere though. Makes me wonder if our town suddenly had a strip club, if the police would be making routine visits to do routine inspections of umm any possible illegal activity. They might see some tits but I guess they manage to not talk about the hazards of their job.

There seem to be ups and downs in my neck of the woods, but I think to back to my first SC experience in about 1977. Pasties and bikini bottoms, no lap dances, no contact at all. I've seen a lot of progress since then.

There seem to be ups and downs in my neck of the woods, but I think to back to my first SC experience in about 1977. Pasties and bikini bottoms, no lap dances, no contact at all. I've seen a lot of progress since then.

I've never seen or heard of a raid in Mass clubs since I've been a regular attendee. Same for Providence. I have been to clubs in Tampa shortly after raids do to election-time tightening of LD restrictions. In the Northeast it's a very low priority. In the bible belt all bets seem to be off.

I also visited a club in San Diego afew years ago that was suffering the after effects of a raid that was brought on as the result of a local politician's conviction for accepting bribes from the club owner in exchange for loosening contact restrictions.

It seems to me that these raids are nothing but occasional politically motivated itch scratching. I don't see any overt plan to try and shut down strip clubs.

dougS: I found it interesting about the building that you work in. My attorney and his associate actually have their offices in a Civial War era train station. It is right just next door to the tracks and is in an area famous for Civil War battles. From the outside you would never guess that it was law offices. The building that I work in has been described as looking like a college campus but is so security concious that we actually have our own 24 hour security guards. We also have a backup facility less than a mile away. Once a year we run a 24 hour drill out of there just for pratice. Not as sofisticated as my normal office but still able to get the job done. fuck, I love this job. 3/20/07 will mark 40 years but I intend to go at least another 5 years.

I agree with FONDL for the most part. While I don't necessarily agree that clubs that get raided are always the most deserving, I believe we all have to accept that it comes with the territory. We like strip clubs because they push the limits of what's legal, and often exceed them. The type of people who run clubs tend to be fringe outlaws who get involved in other illicit rackets - prostitution, gambling, drugs, the whole litany. At clubs run by good do-bees where intimate contact never occurs, hardcore mongers like us stay away in droves.

I know Doug is just letting off steam, but I never have much sympathy for the old hand-wringing line that cops shouldn't bust clubs when there's "real crime" that needs their attention. The law is the law. Where is it written that some crime should only be enforced once all the murders and robberies are solved? That's not how it works, never has been. If you don't like the way it's enforced, work to change the laws so that everything that goes on in Treasures is legal. Or speak out at civic forums in opposition to the priorities the police and prosecutors place on vice. Or help campaign to elect a sherriff who promises to ignore vice in strip clubs. Complaining on a strip club board doesn't change anything. Personally, I can live with the way things are. Making it acceptable would take all the fun out of it.

I personally have not seen any effort to shut down strip clubs around here, I think all such efforts are strictly local and come and go. I'm not aware of any LE action against any clubs in the Northeast. And if such actions are on the upswing I'd guess that it's due to drug use and "extras" being offered and has little to do with stripping per se. Most clubs around here don't offer "extras" which is probably why there hasn't been any increased LE activitiy.

Is anyone aware of any clubs that have been shut down that were clean operations, that didn't allow their girls to violate local laws? Something to think about is that the increase in "extras" is likely to increase pressure to shut down clubs, so those of you who favor extras are probably as responsible as anyone for any increased pressure by LE.

Another point that I meant to add, but forgot about until now.

It is extremely frustrating to me that the local government is so overly concerned with strip clubs and the supposed crimes that they attract. Especially in light of the high crime rate, and lack of arrest and conviction in serious crimes. The local government and PD should be concentrating on these crimes and their solution, not on clamping down on strip clubs.

Case in point. I work in an office that is located in one of the worst areas in the city. The office is actually "hidden" in a non-descript building (an old train station) for security reasons, and security is very tight once inside. Anyhow, this building is just a few blocks from the remaining strip clubs, but is also just a few blocks from the homeless shelter, too.

Tuesday, two bodies were discovered (obviously murdered) a few hundred yards from the entrance to our office. The police have no leads, no clue as to who did this.

The murder rate in the city has sky rocketed over the last few years, and most remain unsolved. This, even after the clubs have been closed down.

It SURE is a good thing that the strip clubs have been shut closed. I feel MUCH safer.

We jave a special dynamic in the STL area that I think tends to shield clubs from that type of nuisance. Most, if not all, of the strip clubs in this area are located in impoverished villages for which the clubs provide a very substantial portion of municipal revenue--for one of the towns, the proportion is frequently 50%. Understandably, the local burghers are unwilling to "kill the goose" that lays the golden eggs.

Politicians... they've got to go. THEY, and THEIR loved ones should be the ones being sent over to Iraq. If that were the case, you can bet this conflict would be ended in short order.

The local politicians have really messed up what used to be some really fun clubs around here, and obviously it is happening in other cities around the county. Even though they claim that clubs promote crime, etc., I think the strip clubs provide a service to both the patrons and the staff. WE the patrons, get the pleasure, the staff is able to make a living when many have no other options. To me, just like prostitution, it's a victimless "crime".

As far as I'm concerned, with the threat that at some point in time there won't be any decent clubs left, I'm cultivating the OTC relationships as much as possible.

chandler: You may be right, depending on where you live. I was born in CA and spent my first 45 years there. Cops had city jurisdiction. sherrifs had county jurisdiction in unincorporated areas of the county. The CHP had control of the Freeways. Down here, in the bible belt there doesn't appear to be any jurisdiction. Bust whoever disagrees with your religous beliefs. Maybe in the next 5 to 10 years, I won't give a shit about strip clubs/strippers any more. I will know then that I am close to the end. In the mean time, get these self rightous cock suckers off my ass. I have $1200 saved up for my next visit to my favorite club and I intend to have good time...

IGU: Sherrifs are cops who order strip club raids, run in elections, etc.

Cops do not make policy decisions. It is their bosses that do. The people That you voted for/or didn't. Europian countries are much more up to date and don't penalize people for fictimless crimes. I think that this is the greatest country in the world. The only super power. But damn you do not have to fuck with my sex life. HillORY in 2008. Give me a break. She couldn't be elected dog catcher in her home state of Ar. Doesn't Say much for the People of NY. Her husband was the biggest embarsement this country has ever seen. Why "Becuse I could". The president of the USA. can say that it is alright to get a blow job as long a you are president.Hillary apparently didn['t care. Who was she sucking to make senator frmy NY. If I have to read about in 2009 some guy much rubbing the carpet on my presidant, the leader of my troops. I will loose it

Wonder what has motivated this recent wave of puritanical enforcement? The laws have been on the books in most places for decades, but there's an ongoing ebb and flow of leniency: for a while, girls (and their Johns) get away with it in certain places; then, for a while, Law Enforcement cracks down stringently; then, for another while, we get away with it again, but at a slightly higher price. Often, LE gets involved just before an election, particularly one of those annoying local-only elections in which silly things like "make our neighborhoods safe for children" campaigns can make headlines, and in jurisdictions where offices like Chief Vice Officer, Sheriff, Family Court Judge, or Massage Licensing Board Member are elected rather than appointed positions.

So, what caused this recent nation-wide one? The upsurge in troops for Iraq? :P

Yep, you were under the wrong impression. Cops never stopped believing it was important to make easy headlines and appear to be cleaning up the town to protect families. Some things never change.

Here in Atlanta the Clayton County Sheriff got a burr up his a** about massage parlors. They raided 14 of them and shut them down permanently. Sent all my asian friends packing. I do not know if the local authorities are trying to justify their tax increases by showing everyone that they are guarding our moral values. I do know that instead of wasting time and money in these endeavors I sure would feel alot safer if they caught some drug dealers and gang members who continually shoot up neighborhoods and kill innocent people. Instead of having 16 officers inside Ricks in Seattle maybe they could have set up a sobriety checkstop and stopped a drunk driver from running into someone. Of course it would not have been as much fun as harassing naked women and the men who enjoy their company. It just must be a sign of our times is the Moral Majority back?