Sad story, great GFE, but a predatory element?
rickdugan
Verified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Last night, a girl who had left my favorite local club three years ago made a surprise reappearance. I did not know her that well back then, but she actually looked hotter pushing 30 than she did 3 years prior. She was avidly avoiding interacting with pretty much anyone in the club, content with sitting in a chair at a table by herself when she was not on stage. She seemed a bit hunched in on herself and more than a bit uptight.
Oh man she had curves in all the right places and looked just great. With my easier options being less than ideal, a long time club dancer, who kinda' fills the House Mom role in the club and who routinely helps me out girls I don't know (for a small donation if I am successful), waved this girl over to come sit next to me. So far so good.
From there she starts a long and twisty story about how she left 3 years earlier to clean up her act and to avoid a myriad of bad influences, which seemed to work as she looked incredible. She was only back due to dire financial circumstances (threatened eviction). Apparently her BF/baby Daddy, who she has been with for a long time, decided for her that she needed to come back and dance to make up the difference.
Compounding the problem were the facts that he was the one who originally kept her home, even though he really couldn't swing it by himself, and that he hid the extent of their financial problems until things started blowing up. She had to go back to dancing a mere 3 days before the next rent payment was due because she had no other options. Then the fucker had the audacity to complain about her first nights, both because she brought home very little money and because she smelled like cologne. What the fuck does this pimp want? LOL
Anyway, while she shared this long tale of woe, tears included at times, I helped calm her down by ordering her double fireballs, her favorite drink. She downed 4 of these double shot drinks while she shared her whole story, which included physical and emotional abuse of both her and her kid. It was a fucking sad story to be sure, but at least the tension in her body was going away, no doubt because she was able to share this with a sympathetic ear. The alcohol might have helped as well. ;)
An hour after the story began, I asked if it would help if I could get her halfway to her goal (she was still short by a certain amount) through a trip to my hotel room. She said yes and it was one hell of an experience. That girl was so eager to please that she gave me a GFE the likes of which I have never experienced with a dancer. That girl might have kept me in that hotel room all night if I let her. It was no doubt primarily about the money, but it was also clear that she liked being wanted in that way after 3 years at home with that miserable pimp/baby daddy and she made it a fucking spectacular event.
I guess though that I wonder if feeding her all of that alcohol, making her feel better about herself ITC and then leveraging her cash needs might have been a bit on the predatory side. This was clearly not her first trip to the rodeo, but she also clearly tried to leave that lifestyle behind a long time ago and, prior to the drinks and our conversation, looked miserable in the club.
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There’s nothing wrong with what you did. It’s far from predatory. She’s a stripper - you are a customer - she strips and decides if she will fuck you - and you pay for the service - so it’s all business - and it’s all good!
However, consider that she might also have been preying on you. Did you notice any signs of the physical abuse she described? Her story sounds to me like a weaving together of damned near every stripper sob story I've ever heard. It might be completely true, partly true, or completely made up.
Doesn't matter. You offered, without any fraud, coercion or use of force, she accepted, without any fraud, coercion or use of force, and you both delivered. The epitome of free enterprise.
If you like the girl and want to know her, and if what she wants is to get fucked and paid, then that is not predatory. Sounds like this girl is a good as they come. But 4x double fireballs would not be good for anyone. Probably this woman is not that heavy either, so that makes it worse.
If you look down on her, or don't really want to know her, then that is not so good. You seem to be looking for the downtrodden.
Obviously, working in the strip club, and doing OTC, her financial woes are coming from BF / Pimp and/or substance abuse issues. Otherwise she would be building up a nice nest egg.
For myself, I would say that a girl with such issues is sexually off limits. And this applies to Gawker's girl too.
If you want to give her cash donations, that's fine. But otherwise, I don't think a girl with such issues going on is suited to being a kept mistress.
My .02
SJG
Yardbirds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ULMxxl…
SJG
Yardbirds, a more white space type of performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QcTgPyI…
Then she went into her story. 3 masked men broke into her apartment, shot her BF in the head, killing him and then robbed her of $1K+. She needed to be here to earn some money and would I take her to VIP.
No way could I be predatory. I felt terrible for her and there was no way I could go to VIP with her. It would have been a total downer. So I told her "Sorry. Not today" and gave her $20 to help her out.
You rationalize all these encounters by saying we're all adults, blah blah blah, but man, these stories are both humblebrags and super depressing as Papi pointed out. Glad you had a good time. Hey, when the cell phone bill is due, maybe you'll get anal.
CP
Please pm me the club and name so I can help too..lol
Early-on in my professional-PL career I sorta had a fave - a "fave" in the sense that if I saw her in the club I'd always get dances from her (early-20s 5'2" light-sknned ebony w/ natural DDs) - but not a "fave" in the sense I went to the club b/c of her - if I saw her I'd get dances from her, if not I'd get w/ other girls (actually as is w/ my M.O. I'd get w/ other girls regardless if she was there or not).
Anyway at it's customary w/ many a dancer, I did not see her for a good-while at her home-club which I woud visit at leat 1x/mo and sometimes more.
A couple of months later I see her and she looks like she had been run-over by a truck - not that she looked bad, she still looked as attractive as always - she just looked clinically-depressed like I had never seen her b/f.
We sit and talk for a bit and I ask her what's up - she then tells me about she and her BF getting into a fight and he beating the shit out of her - she said something along the lines of "he hit me as if I was a man" (busted-lip, black-eye, etc).
She said she went thru a deep-depression and it looked like she was still in-it - of course my "Mr Helper" super-powers kicked-in and I spent the next 2-hours talking to her till closing-time - I didn't get any dances nor was she w/ any other custies - her demeanor and facial expression changed as we spoke and she even began to smile a bit - by closing time I knew she had not made any $$$ and she was not in any shape to be there but I assummed she was there b/c she had not danced for a while and probably needed the $$$ - I went ahead and gave her the $200 I had in my pocket (at that time I was making very-good $$$ so it was kinda nothing for me) - she never asked anything of me and seemed to enjoy if not need my convo and and genine concern for her situation.
Def not meant as a humble-brag b/c being the way that I am I can easily be taken advantage off w/ "all my good intentions" - not that I should've given her the $200 but no f'ing way did it cross my mind as an opportunity to move-in - but then again I am no-doubt a PL.
This provider has sold sex for years. She told you times were tough, and you bought from her. What on Earth is predatory about that?
Lol!
Doesn't anybody else think rickdugan is exaggerating or making things up full cloth?
I used to think he was a predatory d-bag and said it early on. So rickdugan called me a troll an "put me on ignore" (scare quotes indicate that he continued to respond to me on occasion). Periodically I'd think that maybe he wasn't that bad a guy and that I'd just stepped into his beef with Dougster without knowing what was going. Maybe he thought I was backing up Dougster or that I was actually a Dougster alias.
Then he'd post something that would convince me that "no, he really is a d-bag!"
Then the stories started to sound a bit too over the top. And he'd post about driving drunk despite knowing that posting that would elicit negative responses.
Maybe he actually does go to strip clubs, though I will say that the one time I asked if his review descriptions were accurate nobody actually said "yes, he's spot on". But I think 90% of what he says is fictional embellishment.
Or the RickyBoy who fancies himself "a real man" but has no idea how handle it when both his favorites are in the club at the same time, so just stays home on those nights for months on end.
Anyone who thinks that 4got2wipe is anything like zipman is the real shit for brains.
1. Did the girl just leave with you right then, walk on her shift?
2. Did she then return to continue after you and she were done?
3. Did she drive her car, or did she ride in your car?
4. Were you already checked into the motel before you met up with her at the club?
5. Did you pay first, pay 1/2 at the start 1/2 at the end?
6. Is she now able to contract you, like by phone or email? Do you have a way to contact her?
7. Did she remember you from the earlier years when she worked at the club?
8. Do you think it takes away from the experience that you can't just fuck her right there in the club, or like across a parking lot, and that she probably has to change her clothes and take off her stripper shoes and use an automobile? You would only be able to have it be quite like that with her once anyway.
Thanks,
SJG
I'm A Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBGyFrHF…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL02kiRi…
SJG
Yardbirds, who likes the girl on the cover like I do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ULMxxl…
You're gonna have to keep your message a little more consistent, if you want to be a great revolutionary anti-capitalist hero, @SJG!
Lol!
Money for sex, well I've never said that that is the long term solution, its just a way to make things happen fast.
SJG
If people are in the best job for them, then that is correct: they don't anything better to do with their money or time. Everyone has to decide for themselves what the best job for themselves is.
Me personally - I don't like drama, and while I can sympathize I don't like hearing a bunch about it. So at some point I would have been turned off. But glad everything worked out for you.
Seriously though, I always find your take on this to be interesting. You've been doing this long enough to know that many of your own OTC partners likely did it because they needed the money. So in reality you're OK with that so long as you don"t know the specifics. The expression for that is willful ignorance and it's not exactly a solid foundation from which to build a position of moral superiority. Just sayin'.
rickdugan really is the one person on here who rubs me the wrong way, in part because I'm convinced that a lot of what he posts is intended to stir the pot. I've also become convinced that there is a lot of exaggeration and/or fiction in his posts. But who knows? Maybe he's truthful. Probably no point in even speculating.
I will give rickdugan props for posting brilliant crazy stories, regardless of whether they are truthful or exaggerated! (or even totally fictional!)
I've said too much. Now back to positivity! ;)
You found a girl who was clearly in a bad place emotionally. You found another dancer to pimp her out to you and paid that dancer to help you. You then plied with eight shots (four doubles) of alcohol to lower her defenses even more, and get her to open up about her personal problems and then used that information in a moment of her weakness to get her to OTC with you. Yes, I know she's an adult and she has choices, but if you don't see that as taking advantage of a terrible situation she's in just so you can say you put your cock in another pussy, then I don't know what else there is to say.
Those four drinks you bought her that night are three more than I've bought any dancer in the last 20 years total. I don't look for unstable chicks, I don't purposely go to clubs when the rent is due, and I don't ever fuck sloppy drunk chicks for any reason. When I see a dancer I want to OTC with, I exchange phone numbers. I'll text her a day, week, month later. If she responds, great. If not, fine, moving on. When she does choose to see me, it's not because I am applying instant financial pressure (you remind me of Mel Brooks' 'History of the World Part 1' with King Louis going "Hump/Death, Hump/Death, Hump/Death" before the maiden finally chooses "hump"). When we get together, it's daytime, she's sober and able to make rational decisions. That's called free will, and yes she wants my money (otherwise why would she be fucking a middle aged white guy like me?) but she makes her decision from a position of strength, not weakness.
You can keep all your tweakers, cripples, alcoholics and truly damaged women that clearly turn you on. I'm guessing your family crest has a wildebeest with a broken leg on it. I'll stay in my orbit of finding the club's alpha females, who simply like to fuck, and don't mind me snarfing on their bodies for a few hours to make some extra cash. Splitting hairs? I don't think so.
Now, having said all that, thanks for continuing to share these stories. You're one of the few guys on this forum who opens up and gives us glimpses into your personal life, despite all the constant shit you get from a few others. I realize my position of trying to treat these sex workers with a modicum of respect and dignity makes something of an anomaly on TUSCL, but I'm happy with my choices.
CP
Fuck that faggot RickyBoy!
http://www.delish.com/food/a45675/9-reas…
CP
:) :) :)
SJG
I think you're misinterpreting your smug feelings of intellectual and moral superiority as respect for these women. You are saying that these women cannot be trusted to make their own decisions at the times that they make them, so you must set the guidelines for them. That's not respect; that's the ultimate disrespect.
Now that I have talked about what I DID do, here are all of the things that I DIDN'T during my time with her:
1. I didn't force her to return to the club;
2. I did not force her to come over and sit with me;
3. I did not force her or even pressure her to spill her guts;
4. I did not force her or even pressure her to put down those four doubles;
5. I did not put the straw into those doubles to make them go down faster (never saw a straw used in a shot glass before, but there it is);
6. I did not force or even pressure her to go OTC;
7. I did not pay her less than the market rate for the encounter and, in fact, she negotiated the rate up from my initial offer;
8. I did not take her clothes off for her at the hotel;
9. I definitely didn't suck my own cock or do all of the other things she did to it, quite eagerly I should add;
10. I never did anything with her that was remotely threatening or coercive at any stage of our interactions.
She made countless grownup decisions in that long series of events, yet you would label her as damaged and told her that she didn't have the right to make any of those decisions for herself. That';s the type of "respect" that you are talking about?
People who think like you are quite disturbing. That is the same type of thinking that leads to endless morality policing by police departments around the country and political parties around the world filled with people who think that they know what's better for people than those people do and act accordingly. I never really pegged you as one of "those" types until now, but there it is I suppose.
Really great and standard rationalization there, RickyBoy.
First you ask if it was predatory. (I think you were manipulative, but not to the level of being a predator.)
Then you try to justify your actions after some responded that you went over the line.
Why ask in the first place?
Board: "Yes, they were."
RickyBoy: "Fuck you, they were not!"
It was a transaction requiring payment for services rendered - that’s all.
Now maybe it was just a mis-applied version of a classic argumentative technique that involves bolstering one's position by latching onto a current event, which is routinely attempted by unimaginative cubicle drones in office parks all around the country, but either way I would have expected better from a poster with CP's history here.
Holy Christ, what a fag RickyBoy is!
I'll admit to a bit of hyperbole in that statement, written with the intent of eliciting a reaction, which it did. So I'll own it and apologize for being somewhat over-the-top in my characterization of your actions.
In all your tales of swordplay, there are two overriding themes which give me pause and why I call you out as I see it. I realize I may be in a minority on this site (and possibly even a super-minority) in that it offends me, but I've never been one of those "Look at meeeee!" posters who use this site as their only means of self-worth.
The number one theme I see is that of desperation. The one thing all your "conquests" have in common is that they are in desperate straights, and feel they are backed into a corner, and they *feel* have no other choice but to succumb to your efforts. For me, a desperate dancer is an instant boner kill. Whereas you hear a tale of woe and immediately the gears start to turn as to how to use it your advantage, I look for ways to get that girl off my lap as soon as possible.
In baseball right now, there is a lot of discussion about "high leverage" situations, and when to use your best pitchers in the bullpen. You use these same situations to manipulate women to have sex with you. While the "bro" in me wants to give you a high five for being a clever little boy, the human being in me is disgusted. Even when I do same night OTC, I purposely remove any leverage I may have with the dancer in question so that if she does, in fact, show up to my hotel room, she truly chose to be there. I know you roll your eyes at this delineation, and call me willfully ignorant, but there's a big difference in my viewpoint. I stopped visiting AMPs years ago when i found out most of the girls working there were essentially indentured servants working to pay off their relocation costs from Viet nam or China. I still have soul, and I cannot enjoy the transaction if I don't believe my partner has a choice in being there. I very much seek out positive sum results, whereas you're all about the zero sum game.
The second theme is that of massive alcohol consumption. Have you ever tried using your (my apologies for using this term) system while both you and the dancer you seek to fuck are sober? You use alcohol as a substantial cats paw to pry yourself into her mind set and open it to your suggestions. If that's not predatory, then Merriam Webster might as well remove the word from his dictionary.
Again, I'm not saying I'm better than you, nor do I look at my personal actions as morally superior to yours. I freely admit to getting as much as I can from every I can, and you'll hear no apologies from me for doing so. But, and I know this may hard to believe for many members here, I've never asked a dancer to any sexual act that has been performed on me. Never. I take what the defense gives me, and as she demonstrates herself open to grope here or a lick there, I continue on. BUT, as soon as she moves my hands away from a body part, I FUCKING STOP TRYING TO TOUCH HER THERE. I don't give her four doubles just so I can get another notch on my belt.
CP
What a retard!
I think she fakes it for access to my wallet. I saw a $2000 credit card bill ran up for school shopping and a trip to Nordstroms. I like to think she took advantage of me somehow, but it was good GFE!!
Dude, you are simultaneously a raging hypocrite and an emotionally needy guy who probably makes this tougher on them than it has to be.
Say what you will about my approach, but the girls I take out come back over and over. Why? Because I am drama free, judgment free (or so they believe) and extremely easy to deal with.
Oh, and what I do has nothing to do with notches on my belt. It is all about finding new shiny things to play with. And I post about a small percentage of my activities here for the same reason - it is all about my entertainment. ;)
Yeah, right. Direct quote from his follow up to The System "Why do I do this?"
"The oddest thing is that, when I score at a club or successfully arrange takeout, it is almost anti-climactic J It is almost as if the chase is better than the catch"
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=1085
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Really, @analyvone? Story seems perfectly authentic to me. Story is about OTC with some aging, desperate, single-mom with stretch marks abused by her baby-daddy. How depressing. The kind of stripper dregs that the rest of us wouldn't even consider. But paying for sex is always an achievement to @Dugan.
Despite what he says about the "cubicle drones," I get the feeling that @Dugan is just scraping by, himself. RIch guys don't complain about paying their family's health insurance.
1. Did the girl just leave with you right then, walk on her shift?
2. Did she then return to continue after you and she were done?
3. Did she drive her car, or did she ride in your car?
4. Were you already checked into the motel before you met up with her at the club?
5. Did you pay first, pay 1/2 at the start 1/2 at the end?
6. Is she now able to contract you, like by phone or email? Do you have a way to contact her?
7. Did she remember you from the earlier years when she worked at the club?
8. Do you think it takes away from the experience that you can't just fuck her right there in the club, or like across a parking lot, and that she probably has to change her clothes and take off her stripper shoes and use an automobile? You would only be able to have it be quite like that with her once anyway.
9. And so did she just walk right out the door with you, the front door? Or did you have to meet her out in the parking lot.
Thanks,
SJG
Below are my generic answers based upon a broad sampling of girls:
1. Did the girl just leave with you right then, walk on her shift?
Some can and some cannot. I prefer hunting in clubs where the girls have the freedom to leave, but that is not always possible.
2. Did she then return to continue after you and she were done?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In some clubs, once the girl leaves, she cannot return that night. In others it is no problem, especially when she is getting picked up from the club after her shift.
3. Did she drive her car, or did she ride in your car?
I transport about 90% of the girls that I deal with. The other 10% transport themselves.
4. Were you already checked into the motel before you met up with her at the club?
Only when I am traveling. When I'm clubbing locally, I don't book a room until a deal is struck ITC.
5. Did you pay first, pay 1/2 at the start 1/2 at the end?
I pay 100% at the end, always.
6. Is she now able to contract you, like by phone or email? Do you have a way to contact her?
Some can share numbers and others can't.
7. Did she remember you from the earlier years when she worked at the club?
N.A.
8. Do you think it takes away from the experience that you can't just fuck her right there in the club, or like across a parking lot, and that she probably has to change her clothes and take off her stripper shoes and use an automobile? You would only be able to have it be quite like that with her once anyway.
No. In fact, I don't want a high volume ITC extras girl. OTC is always my preferred method and I only source OTC candidates from clubs where serious ITC extras are not on the menu.
9. And so did she just walk right out the door with you, the front door? Or did you have to meet her out in the parking lot.
In some clubs, the girl can walk right out the front. In others, special precautions must be taken.
Lol!
Some can and some cannot. I prefer hunting in clubs where the girls have the freedom to leave, but that is not always possible.
Are there many clubs where girls can come and go freely like that?
3. Did she drive her car, or did she ride in your car?
I transport about 90% of the girls that I deal with. The other 10% transport themselves.
So did the girls then not drive their car to the club, or are they just leaving their cars there until you bring them back?
4. Were you already checked into the motel before you met up with her at the club?
Only when I am traveling. When I'm clubbing locally, I don't book a room until a deal is struck ITC.
That makes perfect sense. So is the girl right there with you when you check in?
Likely that makes her feel good.
5. Did you pay first, pay 1/2 at the start 1/2 at the end?
I pay 100% at the end, always.
They never challenge that?
These clubs where the girls can just leave, that is awesome. Where are there such clubs?
And of the girls and the car, that works real well too.
You've obviously got some really good set ups. Thanks for the info, your answers are eye opening.
I hope these stupid LDKers and Dance Buying Chumps learn something.
SJG
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=912
SJG
I always suspected you were full of shit SJG. With these last desperate posts begging for answers you pretty much proved you have very little if any experience in all that you claim to do.
That's a strange critique of SJG. The general consensus seems to be that he makes way too many pronouncements and doesn't respect others' approaches.
I think it makes a lot of sense to ask questions like this, since any tactic depends on the club, dancer and your goals. E.g.,I tried out the front-room money-feeding approach suggested by SJG and others here a couple of times when the club I was at turned out to be a clip joint, and the reaction of the dancers was more like: uhhhh.. what am I going to do with money that's less than what the extras room costs?
It may well have yielded better somewhere else. I have always had better experiences at clubs that weren't clip joints, so trying other people's ideas on approaches was more of a hail mary, and later I noticed that the guys recommending this strategy weren't recommending it for the kind of club I was visiting.
SJG certainly worships RickyBoy and will suck his dick at the drop of a hat. Even though RickyBoy, in return, just calls @SJG a psycho and a rapist. All very bizarre stuff!
I think you should absolutely ask questions about a process or 'system' if you're not sure or understand how it works. But from his own claims on here he is successful in front room makeout sessions followed by pumping load after load into the girl because he treated her like a civilian. If that's the case, you shouldn't have this many questions because your own system works. It'd be like Rick Dugan coming on here and asking Chili Palmer a bunch of detailed questions about how he goes about his OTC conquests. Never seen that happen.
Justme62 I know exactly what you mean by we all have to start somewhere. That is me in a nutshell! As folks have recently pointed out I am still pretty new to this board and not really experienced in clubbing in general. Which is why I don't try to tell others how they should go about having their fun in the club. SJG on the other hand tries to tell you exactly what you should be doing. Which is why I found it odd that he's here asking another guy how to do it.
As for what anyone professes as the one true way of clubbing, take what you need, leave the rest.
Anonlvone you think SJG is skeptical that Rick's system actually works? It just seems to me reading the posts here that SJG looks up to Rick. Just my take on it, I could be wrong.
I am anticipating extensive travels in the US and the Mexican border. Things will be different then. Until them, I am extensively tied up.
In past times, I have extensive strip club experience, but local only.
TFP, if you had any experience with civilian women you would immediately understand all that I have posted.
SJG
So you're saying anyone on this board that has experience with civilian women immediately understands why you asked Rick all those questions? Well I can truthfully say I have plenty of experience with civilian women and yet it doesn't help me decipher a lot of the garbage you spew.
With the info on your background and the future plans you just posted I'm assuming you were trying to ask Rick for some up to date tips on scoring OTC?
This last post of yours was so vague that it amounted to a whole lot of nothing.
SJG
SJG