a CA group is going to court to nullify Cali's prostitution law

Making prostitution legal will not help the women. I think if we look in areas and nations where prostitution is legalized, the net result is it DOES NOT help the women.

+The illegal/black market side still exists.
+An added legal market exists.
+The pimps and trafficked women still exist in be illegal side
+The expanded market benefits customers and pimps, but not women.

The laws need to follow society not the other way around. Even if prostitution is legal, the stigma still exists. Women, even in the legal market, still WILL NOT go to the police. We see this parallel with Exotic Dancers. The dancers do everything they can to help they're dancers from police, their families, their future husbands, the communities. Women still feel stigmatized from being labeled a whore. That stigma doesn't go away, even if you legalize it. Society puts it there.

The benefit is for the customers because in addition to 'X' number of illegal prostitutes, there is now 'Y' legal prostitutes for a market of 'X+Y' and lower prices, most likely.

The trafficked women still get brutalized. Both types are prostitutes are stigmatized. And now prices are lower or her net is less due to taxation and regulation compliance. And the legal side subsidizes the illegal side. Lose-lose for the women.

I don't know what the answer is.

The market equilibrium is left to itself is the BROTHEL model, worldwide. American society does not like this. So we Americans try to thru culture and thru legislation and law efforcement to PROP UP the EXOTIC DANCER club model. But the market forces keep pushing the artificial equilibrium back to the brothel model.

I think in the future, we might realize that in order to avoid sexual harrassment law suits, assault, and moral objects to sex, we might need to realize that going back for the old days where the dancer was physically separate from the customer -- either via glass wall on stage, the stage itself, or on a wooded crate -- might be the only sustainable model to avoid sexual harassment and assault cases.

I really think we need to consider that. Else we'll keep doing this dance of: it's a club, no it's a thinly veiled brothel, no it's a club, ... until the heat death of the universe.

It's 1904 all over again. Let me explain why. In 1904 we as a nation had a moral panic about the white women slave trade, out of which we got (1) "White Slave Traffic Act" aka the "Mann Act," (2) The Bureau of Investigation (BOI) which ultimate became the FBI. The bureau was created to investigate the growing moral concern of white prostitution.

Historically, if I recall correctly, prostitution was legal and most prostitutes (worldwide) were indigenous women, minorities, or underclass, which seemed to be tolerated. This was also the Progressive Era 1890-1920, so that probably played a role.

It is as if culturally and fiscally the United States is still perpetually stuck in 1919. Almost anytime I see conflicts like his I am reminded of the events of 1919 and how we're still arguing the same debate topics of 1919. IMO. I am probably reading too much into it.

I think prostitution should be legalized. But politicians won't stand for it. They want to be the only legal prostitutes.

Doesn't seem likely. But something similar happened in Canada recently, the old law was struck down and it took a while for a new law to get passed.

Prostitution is a constitutionally protected right IMHO. The right to privacy in particular. As long as you pay your taxes...

That being said, I can't see CA legalizing it. They'll make up some lame excuse to beep the laws on the books.

Typo: "The dancers do everything they can to HIDE they're dancers from police, their families, their future husbands, the communities."

If you at StripperWeb, the dancers, if the ones who don't do extras, the fear of BEING OUTED, is the her worst horror. And dancing is legal and more or less accepted. But the girls are still afraid of the whore label.

It also helps to explain the alternate reality at StripperWeb. If the dancers admit to extras or OTC, it's like admitting to themselves their their moms were right all along and being a dancer is a whore. Mentally they can't do it.

So they all jockey for the role of head nun in the convent.

@Dominic77
Woodrow Wilson and his ilk started the morality police movement that led US down the prohibition road, and the belief that the government and the bureaucrat always know best.
They (the "progressives") were/are totally convinced of their WASP (now the political elite) superiority and that the other "lower races" need to be controlled or eliminated for their own good. (blacks, irish, italians, germans, orientals, native americans, all should not be allowed to procreate = planned parenthood was started in immigrant and black neighborhoods)

No possibility that individuals could possibly make decisions on their own!

How can you tell a moron? They claim fox news is fake news.

Not fake, but highly biased. But then again, so is MSNBC.

That said, Fox News > Brietbart > InfoWars, as far as I'm concerned.

TT writes:

"lower races" need to be controlled or eliminated for their own good. (blacks, irish, italians, germans, orientals, native americans, all should not be allowed to procreate = planned parenthood was started in immigrant and black neighborhoods)

So doesn't it make sense that the white conservatives would be in favor of free, government funded abortion on demand? Or free birth control for poor people? Yet the party of white supremacy seems to be against these things. Oh well...

News Flash:
The same news bite is in the other news. The review of the California law is fact and is on the 9th district docket. The briefs are public record from previous fillings.
Woodrow Wilson is often haled as the father of modern progressivism and he was a democrat. His writings(which I have read) profess forced racial purity. Margret Sanger professed the same ideas of racial purity and control of the races through birth control and abortion.

Trump should like that!

It's about fucking time. The 9th Amendment says that we can do whatever we want. After almost two and a half centuries, I think it's time that someone actually enforced it.

That's right. Genesis 38 says we can sleep with prostitutes we just need to pay them fairly. The suggested price was a gift of a baby goat. Since a goat herder who could give a goat would have been a rich capitalist in those days -- since he would have a goat to spare -- it make sense that prostitution has always been a rich mans game. :-)

@Dominic77 said:

"I think if we look in areas and nations where prostitution is legalized, the net result is it DOES NOT help the women.

+The illegal/black market side still exists.
+An added legal market exists.
+The pimps and trafficked women still exist in be illegal side
+The expanded market benefits customers and pimps, but not women."

Ok, probably. But as long as *someone* is benefited and no one is harmed, then that's a good law. Not every single law needs to be about "helping victims," or "the middle class," or "working single mothers," or "minorities," or whoever else they use when they need an excuse in Washington. Maybe this would help the trafficking victims. Maybe it wouldn't. I don't know. But they are being trafficked right now, regardless. Clearly some people do prefer the legal option when it's available, otherwise all the legal brothels around the world would have closed by now due to lack of business.

"The laws need to follow society not the other way around. Even if prostitution is legal, the stigma still exists."

That's not how America is supposed to work. We are supposed to be free here regardless of whether society approves of our personal conduct. During the Progressive Era, somehow, we decided that this should no longer be the case. Lots of other bad stuff came out of the Progressive Era: a world war, prohibition, the Federal Reserve, the first federal drug laws, the income tax, etc.

"Women, even in the legal market, still WILL NOT go to the police."

Maybe from time to time there are women who refuse to go to the police in a legal market, but they are the exception, not the rule. In northern Nevada, for example, the police routinely check the brothels.

"The benefit is for the customers because in addition to 'X' number of illegal prostitutes, there is now 'Y' legal prostitutes for a market of 'X+Y' and lower prices, most likely."

So? Were you also concerned about the livelihoods of the cable companies when they suddenly had to compete with Netflix? What you're saying is that prostitution should be illegal... but that they should still make tons of money illegally with artificially high prices. That doesnt make sense. Besides, the legal prostitutes will have taxes and licensing fees (which I do not approve of, but it's better than keeping it illegal), and that would artificially prop up prices. There. Does that make you feel any better? :)

I agree with the legal arguments made in this case. Supreme Court rulings to date, if read literally and carried to their logical extreme, require that people have a constitutional right to sell their bodies for sex as long as it is voluntary.

Generally speaking, however, America is not ready for legal prostitution and most courts will respect that fact. However, the liberals on the 9th circuit are bat shit crazy. That's the only US court that I can imagine issuing such a ruling.

If p4p becomes legal, we'd have more hoes, which is a blessing. Why yall act like women cant defend themselves, let me know how it goes when you dont pay a stripper. Hoes will be hoes, laws dont matter

Legalizing prostitution will do little to prevent criminals from controlling prostitution. Alcohol and tobacco are legal, yet the selling of untaxed and stolen alcohol and tobacco are sizable income streams for OC. It may actually make it harder to prevent human trafficking, if it can be more easily masked by legal activities.
I'm not arguing against legal prostitution, but I do want to correct any false rationalizations that it will decrease criminal involvement. That's like saying smoking weed is healthy.

It's about f****** time - if there is a place where it can happen it'd be California.

There are always gonna be reasons not to do something b/c it will hurt X, Y, Z - back in the mid-90s when welfare reform was on the table the battle-cry was that single women and kids were gonna be starving in the streets if welfare reform went thru yet in hindsight most agree it was a successful legislation.

I can't see how legalizing would be worse for anyone including women - will there still be issues, of course - but this is just looking at the corner-cases or worst-case scenarios - sure, there is illegal booz and cig sales; but how many on here routinely buy illegal booze or cigs, or know anyone that does - IDK anyone and never have - yet how many of us fuck "illegally".

Just like prohibition didn't work b/c most people still wanted to drink; even more people wanna have sex so prohibiting that is gonna be less successful than alcohol-prohibition - plus prohibition led to major gangs and crime (Al Capon, etc) just like illegal drugs hav led to major crime and gangs, and just like IMO illegal prostitution also most-likely leads to more-crime - not too-mention that in most areas w/ legal prostitution AFAIK the women are required to get tested regularly thus further making a point for legal being safer for everyone - i.e. w.r.t. alcohol there was more crime associated w/ prohibition that w/ alcohol being legal.

If P4P was so evil, then why is it allowed in Nevada - I know it's b/c of some loophole/grandfathering shit but still if it was such an "evil" it would not be allowed no-matter what type of loophole/grandfathering - plus I don't see huge side-effects of it being legal in NV like tremendous amount of pimping, etc - I see more issues in the places where it's illegal - and why is pornography allowed; it's basically the same shit, women getting paid to have sex - yet there is no overwhelming evidence of sex-trafficking in the porn industry o/w it would have been known and dealt-with.

It's hypocrisy - everyone likes, and for most part needs sex, and would like to have access to it as much as possible - IMO we are kidding ourselves w/ all the anti-P4P excuses and what-if's - it's mostly fear-mongering by those that have something to gain by keeping the status-quo.

After-all - it's a mantra in today's society that women can do w/e they want and can do w/e they want w/ their bodies, but not sell it? Hipocricy!!!

@Papi_Chulo, @gammanu95, @Salty.Nutz, @JohnSmith69,

I agree with almost everything you guys said. My point, and I think some of you will agree with me, is that freedom is an end in itself and it is a positive good. Legalizing prostitution would make some people more free while not enslaving anyone else. Therefore, it's a good idea.

"Free The Pussy"

I personally don’t care as I never use the services of prostites but if all things being considered it’s nobody’s business what two consenting adults do I think that it’s none of the governments business.

I think legalized brothels are the way to go.

^^^ I think legalized *anything* is the way to go. I'm even fine with them walking the streets, if they want. As long as they aren't forced into it.

Them walking the streets can be a nuisance and attract some criminal element not to mention the safety factor - as long as it's kept behind closed doors (clubs, brothels, private residences, hotels) then I think it's the way to go.

Germany is proof positive that simply legalizing it doesn't work well.

Brothels can be monitored and controlled, which eliminates a lot of the non-moral issues people have with prostitution. It's not a perfect solution but I think it's better than the alternatives.

What's the issue with Germany?

@jester214, but why does it have to "work?" Why can't people just be left alone?