How long until OTC?
TXbananas
NTX
Just nearly 3 months into my new expensive hobby, I am wondering how long you OTC guys clubbed before you took that angle?
Maybe it's a function of getting more comfortable in the SC, having more finely tuned "game" and being seen a little bit, but it is rare I go into the SC now and not get approached for OTC--I never bring it up.
Understand when I started doing this after my separation I was just a frustrated, pissed off guy with new-found freedom acting out the best way I could come up with. My expectations were low and I am still not really a VIP room guy or an extras guy, though there have been spontaneous moments...
So how long until I give in to these bitches and end up OTC? Is it really worth $500-$1000 for a single night of the porn star experience or should I just focus on singles bars where loose ladies hang out?
Maybe it's a function of getting more comfortable in the SC, having more finely tuned "game" and being seen a little bit, but it is rare I go into the SC now and not get approached for OTC--I never bring it up.
Understand when I started doing this after my separation I was just a frustrated, pissed off guy with new-found freedom acting out the best way I could come up with. My expectations were low and I am still not really a VIP room guy or an extras guy, though there have been spontaneous moments...
So how long until I give in to these bitches and end up OTC? Is it really worth $500-$1000 for a single night of the porn star experience or should I just focus on singles bars where loose ladies hang out?
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33 comments
Also, i didn't know that Spearmint Rhino was known for extras, or extras friendly. I always thought their VIPs were rip offs. But not all SRs are the same everywhere.
You might be in a club environment where OTC will need to be initiated by you. So... start asking. Once you get an OTC or two under your belt, I suspect that your gut reaction will be:
1. I really like that.
2. I think I could grow to like that.
3. Fuck that action.
Go with your gut.
After your first OTC, you will gain confidence and be better at negotiating the services and prices you want.
The singles scene isn’t interchangeable with otc sex. There is no emotional attachment with otc - and that is generally understood by both parties. With singles sex - you should be upfront with the girl that it’s nsa sex - and nothing more.
I think otc whores know that guys only want to fuck them. Girls at singles bars might be looking to start a relationship - and sex could be the hook to catch a man.
You seem patient and thats a good thing. Dont give in unless you feel right with the price.
I would never pay over $200 for a quickie OTC hookup at a hotel, and never over $100 for just a BJ. Yes, I know some girls ask and get quite a bit more but I've never found it necessary to pay those prices for a VERY hot girl. You just have to shop around and not be stupid about it.
However IMO there seems to be a fine line between what is happening VIP in these high mileage clubs and OTC, and I have dropped $500 on several SC outings just picking the hotties and kicking the tires--I haven't even sprung for a private VIP room yet. If I could be getting the full PSE for that price then I have a vexing problem on my hands. Of course the best part of the deal is that they go away (hopefully) when it's over with no long term commitment.
The last girl at BDs who told me $1200 for the "full experience" was openly negotiable, but she also told me I shouldn't be playing with anyone who asks for much less... SS I know, but by the same token Gonorrhea don't wash off.
@skibum- if you're fucking her ITC then she is also a prostitute.
Civies carry the same risk and in fact maybe greater. A dancer often can be outed for giving an std and given a time out to take care of that b4 they come back or let go.
Sure you might have the escorts and backpage hos working in the clubs who might give you something closer to their market rate, but even an escort/ho that's a 9 or 10 will probably ask for more than the market rate and then you're probably getting an escort/ho experience (professional whore) and not the preferable stripper GFE which i know is still considered whoring, but the volume of whoring seems much less with the strippers.
You know, if that statement is just a bit of rhetorical theater for tuscl's entertainment, then I get that. But if that's how you're really thinking ... why do OTC at all? If you're happy ITC, and have a poor view of OTC, why do it? Especially at the prices you cited, which are significantly higher than I've paid here ,and I live in the most expensive city in the country.
Maybe the things to meditate upon here are:
1. Why do I think engaging in OTC, the single best experience in the sex industry, is "giving in to these bitches"? Hell, I think my lucky stars that OTC is a thing, it's just plain awesome. Again, if that was rhetorical bravado, ignore this, but if not, I don't think you can expect a great outcome if you're going in so negatively.
2. What's the best way to negotiate OTC, given that I've been getting crazy-high quotes. You'll find different people negotiate different ways ... for me, I negotiate much lower prices than you, but I need to lead the negotiation (e.g., I NEVER EVER NEVER let the stripper quote her price -- I make an offer, and let her respond, and right off the bat that response will be hundreds of dollars lower than whatever ridiculous price she would have quoted me if I'd let her make the initial offer). I also find that for me, a general demeanor of "hell, you'd be worth 10x that, but I'm embarrassed that I can only afford $XYZ" works for me. But other guys use different tactics that just don't match my personal mindset, like negging the girls or whatever; you just need to figure out what gets the girls to more reasonable numbers (unless you're in Vegas or something)
As w/ many questions w.r.t. SCing/mongering; the simple answer is usually "if you gotta ask then you are not ready" - sounds condescending/ball-busting but it's usually accurate/true.
IMO most SCers and most TUSCLers actually do not do OTC nor engage in extras; or at least not regularly - so it's not necessarily for everybody, Most guys on-here did not get into extras or OTC well into their clubbing-career (often years) - part of it is them at first just being casual SCers and content w/ what they got - often times it was lack of knowledge till they found TUSCL and TUSCL opened their eyes to the possibilities.
I'm not an OTCer so take what I say w/ a PL-grain-of-salt - most OTCers set-up OTC after they've known a dancer for a bit (could be several weeks or several months depending how long they visit) - after several visits the PL gets a better feel for the dancer (e.g. she's not a ROB or a bitch (attitude-wise); and the dancer gets a better feel for the PL (e.g. he's not some ax-murderer and is willing to spend since you've already done-so w/ her on previous ITC visits)).
$1200 is INSANE - as Subraman mentioned letting a dancer dictate the negotiation and set the price, is like going to a car-dealership and paying w/e the salesman tells you - Dallas is not an expensive-market cost-of-living wise like NYC or LA; so $1200 mayyyyybe in NYC or LA, maybe. The fact you did not balk at that offer may be the reason you are getting so many OTC offers; as jackslash mentioned they are probably pegging you as easy-meat - and her telling you that shit of going w/ her for a high-price being "safer"; please; that's just part of her sales-pitch/hustle - these women do this day-in and day-out and they're leaps-and-bounds ahead of the avg SC custy and why many custies are easily manipulated and often easily-taken.
Dancers quoting sky-high prices for extras or OTC is as common as g-strings - if they notice interest in a custy and notice he doesn't have a clue; then sky-high quotes are common as it was in your case.
+ I'd say $200 could do for a mid-tier club dancer (maybe $300 if she's one of the top lookers in the whole club)
+ $300 for a better club like Baby Dolls (maybe $400 if she's one of one of the top lookers in the whole club) - and maybe $500 if she's OMG I gotta have this bitch over any bitch I've seen
If you want an all-nighter then you'd have to throw in maybe an extra $100 or $200; but if you just want to bang-her for an hour or two the above prices IMO are fair.
If they are grinding on dudes, and being groped by dudes, for $20/dance, then $300 for an hour or two of OTC is good/fair compensation especially if she does it on a day-off thus she avoids having to pay any house-fees - don't fall for her telling you "well I'd have to miss a shift to see you OTC and that's why I gotta have $$$" - that's bullshit and part of the hustle (unless you have to see her on a specific date and specific time to where she *would* miss a shift).
Also - Baby Dolls Champagne Room at $600 just for the room is not the norm- most clubs around the country charge about $100/30-minutes or so for the room-fee - other clubs charge more but these are often non-extras clubs (camera-monitored) and the high VIP fee often includes the dances.
Baby Dolls is not the place to do ITC extras b/c of the outrageous room-fee - that's why it's rarely mentioned in the reviews and when I lived in big-D and clubbed @ BDs I don't recall ever being propositioned for the Champagne Room since most dancers knew most custies would not go for those outrageous prices (and back then, late-2000s, extras were not that common in most Dallas clubs including BDs; to the best of my knowledge since I was not a TUSCLer back then).
Some stage tipping, a $5 floor dance, and some talk, and you and she can be on for Motel OTC right away.
SJG
I know OTC is a two way agreement, but in our case, being men, I think it's only a matter of the right stripper coming along before we decide, yep I'll take her OTC.
That's all the SC is nowadays, a glorified whore house. I would bet they get more action bc they have a safe marketplace as opposed to Escorts/BP hoes who post up. We come to them daily, so they almost certainly do more sales at the club.
She surely has you as a Mark with that offer. You better get to F&@king. Stop worrying about market rates and spend as little as you can to get as much as you can. I used to go to those GPS clubs and then end the night at a dive/mid tier SC to get exactly what I want at the right price. More $$ usually doesn't mean more pleasure.
It's often a crapshoot till one does the deed - but in my limited experience the dancers asking sky high prices are often so into themselves and feel so entitled that they end up giving a poor experience.
@PoolyD the first time I talked to a dancer about my separation/current situation (my first visit to that club) the very first thing out of her mouth was "you should take me home and fuck me in her bed." I managed to keep my composure--then spent $100 on LDs. She was amazing and is still texting me every few days to try to close the OTC.
@Subraman I value you're wisdom here and appreciate your time to lend me expert advice; don't read too much into me using the pejorative "bitch" about girls who knew me 5 minutes before they were letting me suck their tits, play with their pussies all while they fondled my dick. I am sure they are sweet girls outside of the workplace. I was not mean to these girls at all and the most negative I got with my attitude was telling them "no."
@Papi I could well be a mark given that I am pretty honest about letting these girls know I am relatively new to their club, and also that I have not done OTC when that comes up. The dancer at BDs on Monday would have had no intel on me from anyone else, it's just that I asked her for the details when she kept on with the "take me home" talk. She started by telling me "we negotiate a price" but a) I had no idea where to start and b) I knew it wasn't going to happen that night (already nearly 2 a.m.) because I had to get up early Tuesday. So I asked her what the starting point was and she said $1200. I knew that was ridiculous, and she probably did too. We had good chemistry and I can find her again if I want to.
It is not in my nature to haggle over a little money when I make luxury purchases, so I can't see much difference in $300 vs. $500 for the right girl; would that get me more? Who can tell. I'll be getting a sizable year-end bonus before Christmas, so having a large sum of play money may be the final straw for me. Or I may never pull the trigger, but I'll let you know.
Most of us don't like to haggle especially w/ females - but many PLs like to have an ongoing OTC thing w/ a particular dancer and one thing that often happens is the PL overpays to get w/ her then finds himself "stuck at that price" every time they see her again b/c most dancers would not take a pay-cut too-well - so if it's a one-off type thing, yeah one does not need to get the best deal possible, but if it's something one wants to repeat on a fairly-regular basis w/ the same-girl then best to do right from the get-go (in terms of what one is comfortable paying time after time w/ the same girl)