How long until OTC?

It's worth it to me, however, I'm old and not getting singles bars loose ladies anymore. It's amazing how open 20's year old strippers are. 3somes, more positions than I can think of, porn as warm ups. I like it. A lot. I'll pay for it to keep going. But that's me.

From some of your comments, it seems that the girls seem to really like you (or pretend to like you) for whatever reason. Whatever it is, good for you. Should make OTC easier for you, but not necessarily cheaper. Also, there is no guarantee that you will get PSE or even GFE OTC. Often, OTC is just a way for "extras" girls (and occasionally non-extras girls, but they are much harder and more expensive to pull OTC) to make money doing what they do, but without having to give a big cut to the club. I'm far from an OTC expert, but it seems that many of the guys try a girl out ITC first. But if the girls themselves are offering, i guess you should ask what they're offering for how much or make an offer yourself to see how much it would cost you. If you've been told $500-$1000, that seems a bit high and much more expensive than ITC, although i'm not familiar with Texas. I though Texas was one of the more value areas regarding LDs, extras and OTC.

@Dirk some of these upscale Dallas clubs are fucking expensive to VIP. Spearmint Rhino is $700 an hour, and one of my prospects is from there. This week a very sexy Baby Dolls girl started at $1200 (I inquired after the tenth "let's go back to your place" comment) for the "full experience," though she was clearly negotiable. She was ready to go but I wasn't. I know where to find her, and more like her.

$700 for an hour? God bless Texas, but I think I'll stay in Detroit! Lol I got an OTC threesome last week with two fine strippers at one of their homes for a couple of hours last week for $600. They supplied the weed, Jack Daniels and rubbers.

I wonder if those GPS girls find a lot of takers. I think Chicago has a similar OTC range, especially for the hotter dancers as VIPs run as high as $1000+ at some of the less contact/mileage/nudity clubs which makes no sense. The "dirtier" clubs have less expensive VIPs with more action and the girls there are easier to OTC for less. But they're probably not going to OTC for less than what their cut of the ITC VIP would be (usually around one half to two thirds). Probably even more or much more if it's going to be much more than an hour. They are doing it for the money.

Also, i didn't know that Spearmint Rhino was known for extras, or extras friendly. I always thought their VIPs were rip offs. But not all SRs are the same everywhere.

ITC is strip clubbing imo. OTC is fucking a prostitute that costs more and has little or nothing to do with strip clubbing.

I think of OTC more as another layer of familiarity. You get to see more into her real life, may get to spend a little more time with her getting dinners or even helping out driving her around (seems like revoked licenses for DUI and failure-to-appear are common, as well as cars they can't keep repaired.)

I feel like you're seeking life advice from a group of guys who are woefully equipped to provide it (myself included).

You might be in a club environment where OTC will need to be initiated by you. So... start asking. Once you get an OTC or two under your belt, I suspect that your gut reaction will be:

1. I really like that.
2. I think I could grow to like that.
3. Fuck that action.

Go with your gut.

The singles bar will likely give you a sense of accomplishment because paying for sex isn't an accomplishment since most anyone can do it. Tge singkes bar can also have a hangover affect when you want to pump and dump she may cling to you. I'd negotiate your recent separation as a period of time to just have fun, and let the girls know up front. It's like having fun with strippers but without direct payment.

I think you should wait another 15 minutes before trying OTC. However, the bitches seem to think you're a mark. Maybe your inexperience is showing thru and they want to take advantage of it. No pussy is worth $1000. You should pay $200 to $300. Well, go up to $400 if she is your DS.

After your first OTC, you will gain confidence and be better at negotiating the services and prices you want.

You are getting a good number of otc offers - so you might want to negotiate with the girls offering their services. Since you are going to nice clubs - the girls will be higher priced for otc. I’d recommend negotiating down from $1000.

The singles scene isn’t interchangeable with otc sex. There is no emotional attachment with otc - and that is generally understood by both parties. With singles sex - you should be upfront with the girl that it’s nsa sex - and nothing more.

I think otc whores know that guys only want to fuck them. Girls at singles bars might be looking to start a relationship - and sex could be the hook to catch a man.

The market sets the price...some markets just suck or you need to have some good game for value. But regardless if she is quoting those kind of prices you might want to look into well reviewed professional escorts for comparison. Thats a good benchmark for the reality check on her prices and unless you have had VIP you will have no idea on her service quality.

You seem patient and thats a good thing. Dont give in unless you feel right with the price.

OTC prices vary from free to the sky's the limit. As for timing, that's variable. I had OTC with a few dancers pretty quickly (4-5 visits) and my old ATF took over a year! She ended up asking me out too; she never did an OTC before and was nervous about it. She was the dancer I ended up dating as I only paid her that first time for OTC, but that's a very rare thing indeed. At least for guys like me!

I would never pay over $200 for a quickie OTC hookup at a hotel, and never over $100 for just a BJ. Yes, I know some girls ask and get quite a bit more but I've never found it necessary to pay those prices for a VERY hot girl. You just have to shop around and not be stupid about it.

Yes, I am a patient man. I am not really sure OTC is for me at all as I have never had to negotiate a payment for sex, nor am I that desperate.

However IMO there seems to be a fine line between what is happening VIP in these high mileage clubs and OTC, and I have dropped $500 on several SC outings just picking the hotties and kicking the tires--I haven't even sprung for a private VIP room yet. If I could be getting the full PSE for that price then I have a vexing problem on my hands. Of course the best part of the deal is that they go away (hopefully) when it's over with no long term commitment.

The last girl at BDs who told me $1200 for the "full experience" was openly negotiable, but she also told me I shouldn't be playing with anyone who asks for much less... SS I know, but by the same token Gonorrhea don't wash off.

$500 should be the max for fucking OTC IMO, unless you're in Vegas, LA, or NY. Most of the hot girls in those cities will want more than $500.

@skibum- if you're fucking her ITC then she is also a prostitute.

If you think a higher price gets you some kinda pass from std risk well its not like she is FDA Grade A certified beef or something. You can assume she is low volume at that price but who knows, you just might be marked as the guy willing to pay it....

Civies carry the same risk and in fact maybe greater. A dancer often can be outed for giving an std and given a time out to take care of that b4 they come back or let go.

When i read these comments about how expensive or inexpensively (relatively) they are getting OTC for, i just sigh and wonder. Chicago is one of the areas where it is hard to get OTC with a high grade stripper for less than $500 and even $1000 is far from a guarantee if you're talking multiple hours or an entire evening. Definitely not a 9 or 10 working at an upscale club and probably not the same working at mid level club although the mid level clubs tend not to have as many 9s or 10s.

Sure you might have the escorts and backpage hos working in the clubs who might give you something closer to their market rate, but even an escort/ho that's a 9 or 10 will probably ask for more than the market rate and then you're probably getting an escort/ho experience (professional whore) and not the preferable stripper GFE which i know is still considered whoring, but the volume of whoring seems much less with the strippers.

-->"So how long until I give in to these bitches and end up OTC?"

You know, if that statement is just a bit of rhetorical theater for tuscl's entertainment, then I get that. But if that's how you're really thinking ... why do OTC at all? If you're happy ITC, and have a poor view of OTC, why do it? Especially at the prices you cited, which are significantly higher than I've paid here ,and I live in the most expensive city in the country.

Maybe the things to meditate upon here are:

1. Why do I think engaging in OTC, the single best experience in the sex industry, is "giving in to these bitches"? Hell, I think my lucky stars that OTC is a thing, it's just plain awesome. Again, if that was rhetorical bravado, ignore this, but if not, I don't think you can expect a great outcome if you're going in so negatively.

2. What's the best way to negotiate OTC, given that I've been getting crazy-high quotes. You'll find different people negotiate different ways ... for me, I negotiate much lower prices than you, but I need to lead the negotiation (e.g., I NEVER EVER NEVER let the stripper quote her price -- I make an offer, and let her respond, and right off the bat that response will be hundreds of dollars lower than whatever ridiculous price she would have quoted me if I'd let her make the initial offer). I also find that for me, a general demeanor of "hell, you'd be worth 10x that, but I'm embarrassed that I can only afford $XYZ" works for me. But other guys use different tactics that just don't match my personal mindset, like negging the girls or whatever; you just need to figure out what gets the girls to more reasonable numbers (unless you're in Vegas or something)

"...How long until OTC ..."

As w/ many questions w.r.t. SCing/mongering; the simple answer is usually "if you gotta ask then you are not ready" - sounds condescending/ball-busting but it's usually accurate/true.

IMO most SCers and most TUSCLers actually do not do OTC nor engage in extras; or at least not regularly - so it's not necessarily for everybody, Most guys on-here did not get into extras or OTC well into their clubbing-career (often years) - part of it is them at first just being casual SCers and content w/ what they got - often times it was lack of knowledge till they found TUSCL and TUSCL opened their eyes to the possibilities.

I'm not an OTCer so take what I say w/ a PL-grain-of-salt - most OTCers set-up OTC after they've known a dancer for a bit (could be several weeks or several months depending how long they visit) - after several visits the PL gets a better feel for the dancer (e.g. she's not a ROB or a bitch (attitude-wise); and the dancer gets a better feel for the PL (e.g. he's not some ax-murderer and is willing to spend since you've already done-so w/ her on previous ITC visits)).

It seems you are not ready which is understandable given you're relatively new to SCing - you def need to get more info on how to negotiate it b/c from what you've mentioned so far.

$1200 is INSANE - as Subraman mentioned letting a dancer dictate the negotiation and set the price, is like going to a car-dealership and paying w/e the salesman tells you - Dallas is not an expensive-market cost-of-living wise like NYC or LA; so $1200 mayyyyybe in NYC or LA, maybe. The fact you did not balk at that offer may be the reason you are getting so many OTC offers; as jackslash mentioned they are probably pegging you as easy-meat - and her telling you that shit of going w/ her for a high-price being "safer"; please; that's just part of her sales-pitch/hustle - these women do this day-in and day-out and they're leaps-and-bounds ahead of the avg SC custy and why many custies are easily manipulated and often easily-taken.

Dancers quoting sky-high prices for extras or OTC is as common as g-strings - if they notice interest in a custy and notice he doesn't have a clue; then sky-high quotes are common as it was in your case.

+ I'd say $200 could do for a mid-tier club dancer (maybe $300 if she's one of the top lookers in the whole club)

+ $300 for a better club like Baby Dolls (maybe $400 if she's one of one of the top lookers in the whole club) - and maybe $500 if she's OMG I gotta have this bitch over any bitch I've seen

If you want an all-nighter then you'd have to throw in maybe an extra $100 or $200; but if you just want to bang-her for an hour or two the above prices IMO are fair.

If they are grinding on dudes, and being groped by dudes, for $20/dance, then $300 for an hour or two of OTC is good/fair compensation especially if she does it on a day-off thus she avoids having to pay any house-fees - don't fall for her telling you "well I'd have to miss a shift to see you OTC and that's why I gotta have $$$" - that's bullshit and part of the hustle (unless you have to see her on a specific date and specific time to where she *would* miss a shift).

Also - Baby Dolls Champagne Room at $600 just for the room is not the norm- most clubs around the country charge about $100/30-minutes or so for the room-fee - other clubs charge more but these are often non-extras clubs (camera-monitored) and the high VIP fee often includes the dances.

Baby Dolls is not the place to do ITC extras b/c of the outrageous room-fee - that's why it's rarely mentioned in the reviews and when I lived in big-D and clubbed @ BDs I don't recall ever being propositioned for the Champagne Room since most dancers knew most custies would not go for those outrageous prices (and back then, late-2000s, extras were not that common in most Dallas clubs including BDs; to the best of my knowledge since I was not a TUSCLer back then).

There was a local place where girls could come and go as they please.

Some stage tipping, a $5 floor dance, and some talk, and you and she can be on for Motel OTC right away.

SJG

If I had to guess, I'd say within two more months you'll have gone OTC with one. That's a pretty high price tag, maybe it's your area. I know for me it's $200 - $300.

I know OTC is a two way agreement, but in our case, being men, I think it's only a matter of the right stripper coming along before we decide, yep I'll take her OTC.

@Dirk. The volume of whoring is less with strippers??
That's all the SC is nowadays, a glorified whore house. I would bet they get more action bc they have a safe marketplace as opposed to Escorts/BP hoes who post up. We come to them daily, so they almost certainly do more sales at the club.

@ Bananas. Just do the damn thing man and stop over-thinking it. You're already dropping $500 on dances I presume from your statement, and not getting any punani??
She surely has you as a Mark with that offer. You better get to F&@king. Stop worrying about market rates and spend as little as you can to get as much as you can. I used to go to those GPS clubs and then end the night at a dive/mid tier SC to get exactly what I want at the right price. More $$ usually doesn't mean more pleasure.

"... More $$ usually doesn't mean more pleasure ..."

It's often a crapshoot till one does the deed - but in my limited experience the dancers asking sky high prices are often so into themselves and feel so entitled that they end up giving a poor experience.

Great feedback guys, I appreciate it. I am an admitted SC newb but not a fool--I've been around the block a few times in life and have had a surprising degree of SC success (measured by getting more than I ever expected) to this point. Also, this was not a intended to be a brag post as I will always be the first to tell you I had no idea what I was doing a couple of months ago and barely do now. I just enjoy the adventure.

@PoolyD the first time I talked to a dancer about my separation/current situation (my first visit to that club) the very first thing out of her mouth was "you should take me home and fuck me in her bed." I managed to keep my composure--then spent $100 on LDs. She was amazing and is still texting me every few days to try to close the OTC.

@Subraman I value you're wisdom here and appreciate your time to lend me expert advice; don't read too much into me using the pejorative "bitch" about girls who knew me 5 minutes before they were letting me suck their tits, play with their pussies all while they fondled my dick. I am sure they are sweet girls outside of the workplace. I was not mean to these girls at all and the most negative I got with my attitude was telling them "no."

@Papi I could well be a mark given that I am pretty honest about letting these girls know I am relatively new to their club, and also that I have not done OTC when that comes up. The dancer at BDs on Monday would have had no intel on me from anyone else, it's just that I asked her for the details when she kept on with the "take me home" talk. She started by telling me "we negotiate a price" but a) I had no idea where to start and b) I knew it wasn't going to happen that night (already nearly 2 a.m.) because I had to get up early Tuesday. So I asked her what the starting point was and she said $1200. I knew that was ridiculous, and she probably did too. We had good chemistry and I can find her again if I want to.

It is not in my nature to haggle over a little money when I make luxury purchases, so I can't see much difference in $300 vs. $500 for the right girl; would that get me more? Who can tell. I'll be getting a sizable year-end bonus before Christmas, so having a large sum of play money may be the final straw for me. Or I may never pull the trigger, but I'll let you know.

"... It is not in my nature to haggle over a little money when I make luxury purchases, so I can't see much difference in $300 vs. $500 for the right girl; would that get me more? ..."

Most of us don't like to haggle especially w/ females - but many PLs like to have an ongoing OTC thing w/ a particular dancer and one thing that often happens is the PL overpays to get w/ her then finds himself "stuck at that price" every time they see her again b/c most dancers would not take a pay-cut too-well - so if it's a one-off type thing, yeah one does not need to get the best deal possible, but if it's something one wants to repeat on a fairly-regular basis w/ the same-girl then best to do right from the get-go (in terms of what one is comfortable paying time after time w/ the same girl)

In case you wanna "research" the OTC subject further, there's been many prior threads and some pretty-good TUSCL articles about it - just type "OTC" in the TUSCL search-box at the bottom of the TUSCL homepage.

My second visit alone to a strip clue I got a dancer to agree to a private party as she said t. My problem was I was trying to date her and didn't know she wanted money. This was many years ago. I ended up getting nude lap dances at her place but not necessarily the routine OTC some guys talk about. I did end up seeing her a few times with no money exchanged between us. I guess in that respect we were sort of interacting like in a date without thinking about it. She really gave me a GFE at times even getting pissed off at me for no good reason but she came back. I was ticked off the first night because I didn't know she wanted money and refused to pay anything at first. I relented after she started crying. I had access to a lot of cash. In one deal she made with me, she sort of made it even or even had me come out ahead. After a few years, she seemed a lot more attached to me than I was to her. When other dancers think you got something going on with a dancer, they may not be completely wrong. One spat lasted 3 months. She quit working at the club I visited because of a disagreement. Watch out some dancers are crazy.

^^^ thx sir.

One of my friends "dates" a stripper that he met at a local breastaurant. They drink excessively and fuck like rabbits, but she is crazier than hell and he is considering getting a restraining order. So point taken. Not trying to date a stripper over here...

Thx Papi

Ignoring the dancers who quote a thousand, most of the time it's usually somewhere between her cut of what she makes for extras or a half hour, and the amount I would pay her in the club. In one club a half hour is $200 to the club and most dancers charge an additional $100. After a few trips back most who did OTC, offered to see me outside the club for $250.