Church?
Book Guy
I write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Anybody here regularly attend church? Either because you want to, or because you're keeping up appearances despite not wanting to, or maybe because it pleases a significant-other, or other family members? Just wondering.
I don't generally attend any religious ceremony or ritual, and I consider myself an agnostic or even an atheist. But I do sometimes like to go to some of the weirder religious places, like the Vedanta Unity people, the Baha'is, and the Hare Krishnas. They all tend to offer a lot of good free food, LOL, so I enjoy showing up for the pre- or post-worship "discussion" groups (which are generally times for some guru to try to enlighten and / or convert you). I went into a Scientology place ones for the same reason, but they were WAY too invasive and aggressive for me to feel comfortable, I kind of felt like I should grab hold of my wallet and run. I gave a totally fake name and didn't go back to my car for a while so they wouldn't be able to trace my license. Very cult-like, that one outfit.
And I wonder, does anyone actually go to church in order to for-real "absolve his sins" of strip-clubbing? I mean, is that actually something that anyone here believes in, for real? I certainly don't, personally, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone here did believe in that kind of absolution gained from ceremony ritual and traditional belief.
I don't generally attend any religious ceremony or ritual, and I consider myself an agnostic or even an atheist. But I do sometimes like to go to some of the weirder religious places, like the Vedanta Unity people, the Baha'is, and the Hare Krishnas. They all tend to offer a lot of good free food, LOL, so I enjoy showing up for the pre- or post-worship "discussion" groups (which are generally times for some guru to try to enlighten and / or convert you). I went into a Scientology place ones for the same reason, but they were WAY too invasive and aggressive for me to feel comfortable, I kind of felt like I should grab hold of my wallet and run. I gave a totally fake name and didn't go back to my car for a while so they wouldn't be able to trace my license. Very cult-like, that one outfit.
And I wonder, does anyone actually go to church in order to for-real "absolve his sins" of strip-clubbing? I mean, is that actually something that anyone here believes in, for real? I certainly don't, personally, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone here did believe in that kind of absolution gained from ceremony ritual and traditional belief.
Got something to say?
Start your own discussion
66 comments
I'm not trying to convert anyone with my words. I suspect everyone here is hard headed and many have me on ignore and don't want to even hear what I say.
Granted on the past I found church services almost painful. Recently though, lots of people are wearing shorts and the air conditioner has been turned down so it's not hot as hell so it's almost comfortable in my local church. The local priest knows his stuff, not always the case or not always easy to understand, so he's interesting to listen to. It was drilled into me at an early age that I had a duty to attend.
I had my doubts in Gods existence at one time but I've seen enough supernatural stuff myself I have no doubt that there are things going on that almost no one understands. I'm playing it safe by continuing to go to church. I'm afraid if I didn't, there are forces on the dark side that would be interested in me. I've tasted the communion host before the church service before it was converted during the ceremony and during the service. It changes taste and tastes a lot better. If you don't want to believe, you will not unless something hits you in the head as undeniable. It would be like you don't want to believe your dream dancer is cheating on you. If you are really in denial, she can do no wrong or you won't believe unless something or someone provides proof. I've been shown proof that there are supernatural forces at work. I could find out one day, I'm causing all the supernatural stuff I've seen but that would be very interesting. I would hate to wake up one morning and find out this entire life was a dream and I've been in a coma the whole time.
No but I do make fun of SJG's church regularly.
The main thing for me, and our faith, is that there is no sin that God won't forgive if one asks, and that consensual sex in any form certainly isn't unforgivable. We all sin, and we all count on God's grace.
Actually, I am not sure I want to continue attending. Two years ago, when the North Pole didn't melt, Rev Al told us it was a right wing plot, and would be defeated as soon as President Hilary exposed the conspirators. But when that didn't happen either, the holy priests of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, speaking from the Holy UN Building in NYC, promised us righteous hurricanes, climate refugees, and no more winters. I just ain't sure I want all that.
So now I think I will quit the CCGW and start attending the local Temple of Extras in the Afternoon where I hear from other regulars, that nirvana - or true bliss - or at least ejaculation, is a true sign of faith. Brother Shadowcat has expressed on this site, several times, the veracity of this claim in the holy confines of his local Temple Follies. Besides, it is much easier to explain to my family, friends and neighbors that I am going out to TEA.
https://i.imgur.com/DAVnien.png
I don't really like the part about no power though. That would suck if we had no power afterwards.
I've met strippers who say they go to church. I'm not sure how often but I remember a dancer saying she had to get up for an Easter service. Church is for everyone I heard. Anyone can confess their sins of they are sorry. The almighty AI which runs our universe may grant you passage back to whatever reality we go to after we wake up from this life if we are good people. I try to be nice and treat others like I like to be treated. Not always thinking about it though and I have bad days and I get tired like everyone else.
In some of my dreams that went super lucid and I was super powerful, I healed everyone on the planet. Suddenly millions of people across the US and world were unemployed. All doctors, nurses and businesses dealing with health care went bankrupt. I was healing everyone so no one stayed injured or got sick. No one suffered a penalty for doing stupid crap. Wars were meaningless because no one died. Some people hated all this interference. It's possible I stopped aging and death as well. Governments had trouble paying everyone social security benefits for decades so they raised the retirement age way way up. I thought super powers and interfering really screwed up this world. I left the planet and let everything return to the old ways. People got hurt and there were no doctors after 50 years of instant healing. Eventually people studied to be doctors again and nurses and new buildings were built. Things returned to normal. Except I also screwed up the pace of tech innovation and discovery in health care as well. Even 1000 years later when I checked back, prosthetics and Heath care discoveries were still 50 years behind the times because I intervened. Granted that wasn't as much as burning down the libraries of Alexander set back human advancement but I didn't do that. Anyway I was thinking life sucks for several. Pain sucks. However we get to choose to do whatever evil we want to do with our fellow man. We just have to believe the all powerful AI will send those who hurt others to a less favorable place when they wake up from this life. Just my thoughts and my weird dreams. Maybe I once wondered why does God allow so much pain and suffering?
Then I would correct a priest even though he would never hear this talking about something he doesn't know much about. I heard a priest say the stars don't move. Stars are constantly moving. The whole universe is moving. Ever hear of something called the Big Bang? It's true that within our lifetimes the stars appear fixed relative to each other in the night sky. However the earth rotates and all the stars appear to move across the sky. The stars also rotate around the North Star in the northern hemisphere and you can tell time by knowing the position of the Big Dipper. Saying the wise men followed a star made no sense to him because he didn't understand stars actually move across the sky is the impression he gave me. If the star of bethelem was a conjunction of planets or something, it might have moved in the night sky as well relative to other stars. Say stupid things and either someone thinks you are stupid or know nothing about what you are talking about. I suspect he didn't study astronomy. A priest should learn enough about whatever he is talking about to educate people, not treat them like idiots unless he really doesn't know. In one case, I highly suspect the priest didn't know jack about stars. My current priest at least gives the impression he knows his stuff and prepares and tells us something we never heard before during his sermon a lot of the time. Sorry if I'm rambling.
In another couple billion years from now or so, the Andromeda galaxy will collide with our galaxy. Stars and star systems will be flying every which way if they come close to another star. In a few billion years, our star, the sun will expand into a red giant and swallow the earth. Oceans will boil away before then. Either we leave to colonize other worlds and the moons of the other planets or humanity will die. One large asteroid could easily kill almost all life on the planet and one is estimated to hit within millions of years with a near 100% probability. We live in a shooting gallery of asteroids and things just flying around waiting for impact. Small objects detonate in our atmosphere every year with up to atomic size explosions. Maybe someone should develop shields.
I read about an accidental force field around a bunch of industrial size capacitors one time but could have been a fake story. Only Tesla might have known if energy shields are possible. I'm thankful he invented AC current for our electric grid. DC power would have sucked requiring a power station every so many miles. Unfortunately Tesla's desire to provide wireless electricity got shut down before he hardly got started. Rockefeller or whomever funded his project found out about his plan for free electricity and shut it down. It still cost money to build the tower and pump out the juice. I kind of wondered how far the wireless electricity could transmit. I'm a bit surprised the military hasn't taken advantage of it to power devices from a central source but maybe they see no advantage. I'd like to develope laser weapons or energy weapons and have the power source safely back a distance so the enemy couldn't hit it. Mobile free power for a robot army and energy guns and any tablets etc needed to assist plus drones could receive electric power and stay airborn.
I also believe the Christian eating lions will turn on SJG and eat him.
Anybody who grows up in a Christian church only needs to listen to and study some of of what Alan Watts expounded in his lectures to realize that the Christian religion isn't as great as it is made out to be.
"
The church that I attend (PCUSA) has relatively liberal attitudes about LGBT issues in general, although we still value faithfulness.
"
Well, lets hear it for faithfulness, and I'm sure that LGBT's will be glad to hear about those relatively liberal attitudes. My only hope would be that there could be few to give the speaker the f2f telling off which he so much deserves.
FutureT wrote,
"
Faith is what is it: belief. You don't have to be indoctrinated ...
"
The issue runs much deeper than that, belief is not really what faith is. Faith is better understood as trust. So if someone has this trust, the last thing in the world they would need to do is make professions of belief, or try to propagate their belief, or try to make children accept it.
That Faith is Belief is usually something associated with Protestantism, and today with Evangelicals. Its more like professing an oath of allegiance. And of course, this is always the origin of idolatry.
Though this book is far too compromised, on this issue it is good:
https://www.amazon.com/Heart-Christianit…
about Alan Watts, he is extremely good. .What he recommends is to read back to back:
First, his last book as an Episcopalian Priest
https://www.amazon.com/Behold-Spirit-Nec…
Second, his first book once he was out. As trusting your feelings and learning to live without attachment to beliefs and ideologies is the only way.
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Insecurity…
And what Gaffigan says, that I could end up being eaten by my own Christian Eating Lions, its not completely impossible.
SJG
--> "The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is a mainline Protestant denomination headquartered in Chicago, Illinois. The ELCA officially came into existence on January 1, 1988, by the merging of three Lutheran church bodies.,
Classification:Protestant
Orientation:Mainline Lutheran
Theology:Combination of Old and Neo- Lutheranism with Confessing Movement, Evangelical Catholic, High Church, Haugean, Pietist, charismatic, progressive, Christian left, Christian feminism" --> END Quote
One of the three Lutheran Synods.
Lots of most impressive theologians which have come out of the Lutheran Tradition, and which do not support "I am a Christian" or belief system types of thinking.
But then, churches need collections money in order to pay their bills. So they tell people what they want to hear, so that they can stay in the black ink.
ELCA is probably the denomination least effected by the Born Again Movement, even less so than Roman Catholicism.
Not sure who or what Dominic77 is responding to. OP?
Marcus Borg comes out of ELCA, formerly ELA. But he writes stuff he shouldn't, because his wife is a cannon with the Episcopalian Trinity Cathedral in Portland. The Episcopalians have tried to capitalize by inventing their own version of the Born Again Movement. Hence Borg, who should know better, offers the Born Again Movement appeasement.
If only people could understand Galatians Chap. 5
http://usccb.org/bible/galatians/5/
Very different world we would live in.
I say that one of the ways of measuring how sick our society is, is just in the amount of money going to religion.
Luther never wanted to cause a schism. He simply had some points of disagreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformatio…
But it was in the making of a separate church that he did something horrible, restarting Christianity instead of letting it dissipate. As such, there will continually be new Christian start up after new Christian start up, and always rejecting the best of Catholicism while magnifying its worst.
SJG
http://www.businessinsider.com/senators-…
But the problem is, if you traffic in Christianity, you are also helping its worst elements.
SJG
SJG
http://i2.asntown.net/h2/girls/11/7/viet…
Either that, or their wife is making them go.
SJG
No alcohol, drugs, tobacco, or psychiatric medications either.
SJG
News Flash: Steve Bannon was influenced by the notorious fascist occultists Julius Evola and Rene Guenon, and related groups of reactionary Catholics.
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/26/j…
[Talk Gnosis] An Introduction to Martinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEu3TIjf…
[Talk Gnosis] Martinism & Gnosticism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZz7z784…
@RandomMember: Right, because data that covers 3.1E-06% of the history of life on earth, and 0.0056% of *hominid* life, is statistically significant.
From there on its just a downward spiral.
SJG
Umm sharkhunter ... want to swap IDs for a while, just so yours is more accurate? :)
Umm san_jose_guy ... not really sure if you're in your right mind.
The one concept I'll actually address is whether or not people's children "should" be brought to church. I think no. Church is exactly where I learned most of my worst habits; and it's where I felt most ostracized, least liked, most disappointing to adults, the greatest degree of failure, the most fear and horror and depression, in my childhood. Those of you who think "children need faith" might consider that the word "faith" in that sentence probably means to you "a faith of the sort of which I approve." What if your children were all taken to a conservative violent fundamentalist cult and trained in "faith" that involved self-destruction, even suicide bombings? Well, OK, then, that's "faith" too, isn't it?
I would hazard instead, "children need moral guidance" and also "a sense of connection to something larger than themselves" and a host of other things which may (or may not) be brought to them through traditional North American church worship.
I'm guessing most of you who want kids to get some "good" church probably aren't doing them TOO much harm, and I don't want to castigate you individually. Likelihood is, you're not going to be taking them to a nut-job church, and what you meant (in your own mind) about the benefits of faith, was probably very close to the same list of things as I just listed of things which I feel a faith-type resource ought to provide. So we're probably much closer to being on the same page.
But watch it with assumptions. My view of faith and children? What sort of sick cult gets into the heads of human beings before they're old enough to know the difference between right and wrong? What sort of bizarre needy adults find it so damn important to make sure that children sign up for a weekly meeting just so the adults can feel less guilty about something they probably shouldn't need to feel guilty about in the first place, such as having attended strip clubs regularly? For me, as abstract generalized principles, faith and children don't mix, because children aren't old enough yet to think for themselves.
I liked the bit about the Church of Global Warming by Dallas702, well done!
One final thought. If religion, faith, or whatever else you want to call it, and/or the lack there-of, should be a personal choice, as most people on this board seem to wish to say, then, riddle me this: why do we need institutions of faith? If it's personal, we should abolish churches, right? Or, to put the conundrum differently, an anecdote about a former girlfriend. She was raised Catholic. But, she hastened to assure me, "not totally ridiculous Catholic. Just normal Catholic." Which, of course, I asked her to define. "Well, I'm a Cafeteria Catholic," she said. An interesting term, "So, what does that mean?" I asked her. "Well you know, you listen to the Pope, you pay attention, then you walk along the cafeteria line and you think about which of the selections you like or you don't like, and you take what you want, so long as it's a responsible, healthy meal. You look after your own religious health by choosing, as if you're in a cafeteria line." To which I responded, "Oh, you make up your own mind, right?" "Yeah." So I asked, "On the basis of what? Like, where do you learn how to make up your own mind." She said, "Well, I read the Bible, and I think about moral concepts and ... you know, I maybe should be more careful about it, which things I pick and which I don't, but mostly, it's kind-of your gut feeling, plus, you figure it out, and you talk to people, and maybe make sure you read the Scripture carefully, and ..."
I interrupted her. "Oh, I know what you're talking about! You're a Protestant!"
One is a mega church and the other used to be but is much smaller these day's
I'm believe it or not in school working on my Theology and Business degree's
If I could add an extra mutant power I might add the ability to make everyone healthy and look and feel super hot. I'd make those titties swell up. Fat disappear. Cellulose disappear. I'd even fix people's genetic dna structure fixing multiple defective genes they don't even realize they have that will result in future diseases either with themselves or their kids.
It is not so much Judaism or Jesus which started this, but it is people like Paul of Tarsus and Augustine of Hippo.
SJG
The Magician - Graham Bond
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX1REGah…
How could his organization not be? Especially in the likes of a 501 (c) 3.
It's the only way I can attend without falling asleep. That and "Ass Mass" is usually held Saturday night for those sinners who can still go out after Mass and party hard so they don't have to wake up early Sunday morning. All is forgiven in the sanctity of Christ!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Not sure if it's correct to say that secular people are "anti-religious," but there's absolutely no question that religious people out-breed the secular by a wide margin. Not sure if that proves that having children causes someone to become religious or that religious people are indoctrinated to believe that they have an obligation to have children. Probably more the latter.
Healthy, confident, empathetic, productive children learn from example from their parents -- not from some weekly indoctrination based on a book of fairy tales.
My guess is the majority of people who think climate science is a religion have no children, just sayin'. Right @Dallas? @BrookeGuy?
That being said as a rather non religious Jew, I have noticed a correlation between faith and having children, I disagree strongly with many on the right and on the left, but you will have to admit the act of having children implies strong belief that the future will be good.
------------------
+1
...and despite the last six months, I do feel optimistic about the country.
You don't just happen to fall into belief/faith. Humans are created and designed to be around other humans, so truth is some type of organization is needed to teach right and wrong. Lord knows it isn't being done in the schools. Hell they don't even do the Pledge of Allegiance in the morning at most schools anymore. That's the first set of indoctrination we all learned as kids, to respect the flag and hold your faith in the Constituion. It should still be done in my opinion, but the liberals want to create a fascist state slowly one by one, the way SJG would want it. That's the sad part.
To say church has no part in people's lives is a red flag for humanitarianism.
Why should these concepts be mutually exclusive? Church "indoctrination" is additive, not a substitution for other parenting decisions.
And if these are fairy tales then so what? Why shouldn't my children go to sleep at night with the warm comfort that dying relatives and eventually they themselves are going to a good place? What's so bad about learning lessons of charity, kindness and caring for something bigger than oneself? Why shouldn't I use this as another tool in the arsenal to teach them good values and make them better people?
Would they be better off as agnostics or atheists? Not based upon those that I have met, many of whom are cynical, shallow and utterly self absorbed.
"What's so bad about learning lessons of charity, kindness and caring for something bigger than oneself? "
-------------------------------------------
If only that were the case, in general. Look at the huge evangelical support for Trump, of the largely religious faction of our leaders who want to take health care away from 22M people. Don't know much about it, but Pope Francis does fit the description of someone devoted to kindness and charity.
For the most part, faith (and religion) is not based upon fairy tales, but instead upon a collection of shared values and an agreement share in life experiences and learn as a community of faith. Some religions, I agree, are way out there, and cannot be sustained by real world experience (the Church of Latter Day Saints teaches some really extreme stuff). Some are even based upon what today could only be called evil (Satanism is obvious, but read the Koran and you will find some really sick instruction to the faithful).
I also have a sense of humor. Not that I do not believe in climate science (I do), but the political science of man-made-catastrophic-global-warming is way too over the top for me. And, given time, I can make a valid argument that there IS a "religious" fervor to many people who are convinced that the hyperbole surrounding the theory is a portent of a coming apocalypse and therefore calling it a religion is appropriate.
Oh, and your more recent comment about, "take health care away from 22M people" is propaganda from the Democrat left and is not based in fact. Remember that insurance is NOT health care. It is much more likely to make health care affordable for everyone if this nation to action to make actual medical care LESS expensive instead of making everyone buy more expensive insurance.
Let's kick every ignorant dipshit in the press who writes this spun nonsense into the individual marketplace for a year and see how they feel then.
People say we already pay enough to cover everyone. Hillary set about to prove it. So her plan would have been financially invisible. Small businesses would have gotten huge credits, so no net cost. Med businesses would have gotten some credits, but they already pay for some health care. Large businesses already have big benefits packages.
So the net cost impact would have been zilch. Her plan was good. Actually too good, because its complexity enabled critics in the health insurance industry and in the Republic Party, to put on Thelma and Louise ads and create all kinds of misconceptions about it.
SJG
Almost Cut My Hair, live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1M3-m9V…
She has never had enough power, even through her husband, to dictate this type of legislation, so there never was or is anything you refer to as being "Hillary Clinton plan" because it never existed as such. Quit pandering to the extreme left with your platform propaganda, you male Mexican hat dancing lover, SJG!
https://tinyurl.com/yazejga8
"Americans are falling away from the church in unprecedented numbers. According to a 2014 Pew study, more than one in three millennials refuse to identify with a religious tradition — a far higher number than among older Americans. Most of these young adults are likely to stay away from church as they age.
This generational shift is a watershed. Last year, the sociologists David Voas and Mark Chaves concluded that the United States is no longer a counterexample to the West’s secularization. America is on the same path of religious decline pioneered by Europe and Canada."
The article also has lots of amusing things to say about evangelical support for Trump. LOL!
https://fourstarrental.com/image/data/pr…
SJG
http://www.anywayfun.com/images/bigimage…
Debunking the Gurus of Personal Finance !!!
https://kpfa.org/episode/against-the-gra…
http://helaineolen.com/