The economy, how does it effect clubbing.

Neither.

There will always be people who are uneducated and will take a job stripping or doing extras because it is the most lucrative thing for them to make money. Just like politics, all things are local. So depending on the local circumstances I really don't think it matters too much what the economy is doing on a larger scale.

I'm in the "a high tide lifts all boats" camp - I think more dancers leave dancing b/c there may not be enough $$$ in it to justify the house- fees/tip-outs and all other expenses including often f'ed up hours.

A good economy may affect mileage b/c it may become more of a seller's market - there are pros and cons to both economic situations but I err on the side of a better economy enticing more and hotter girls to wanna make a killing.

My general sense -- and I have examples that both support this notion, and others that contradict it, that I can go through -- is:

- Better economy means more hot chicks as strippers. Yes, better economy in theory means more hot chicks can be employed elsewhere, but the kinds of girls who are thinking about stripping, are not taking up investment banker and information economy jobs ... it just means there's more $15/hour restaurant hostess jobs around for them. As the average stripper take-home pay rises, more of these hotties are tempted into the business. The absolute peak of hot chick-itude in this area, was in the tech boom of the late '90s.

- Better economy also means prices in the strip club rising faster.

So whether or not the SCing is "better" depends on whether you are part of the economic boom, and can afford to partake, in which case you've got lots of lots of beautiful stripper options. Or, if you are not part of the economic boom, it might not be a good thing.

- One of the most amazing times to SC in this area was at the end of the tech bubble, 2001-2004, **if** you were still gainfully employed. The economy tanked, thousands of SC customers lost their jobs so their money was taken off the board, and the clubs were flooded with smoking hot chicks who previously either had low-level jobs in tech (admins, low-level inside sales) and the surrounding industries supporting tech (hospitality, restaurants, real estate, etc). It was an amazing time: perfect storm of a flood of beautiful women, and as a customer who still had a job in tech, not a ton of competition. It all leveled out in a few years, but honestly there are so many variables I can't be sure as to why.

A simple analogy:

Don't the clubs w/ lots of customers, especially lots of spending custies, attract the most dancers and the hotter dancers b/c there's lotd of $$$ in the club

I should re-emphasize that I"m engaging in a little confirmation bias above. There are lots of variables at play, and I can also provide a direct example that contradicts what I just said: currently, we're in the middle of another tech boom, but for some reason the SC business is not part of it -- business is as slow now as it was in 2009, I dunno why -- and as a result, no increase in quality of the girls, etc

@ Subra:

I assume the early-2000s tech-bubble was more pronounced in your area near Silicon Valley.

Also, could it be the SCs are not currently benefiting in your area b/c they may not be as good, or as many, as 15+ years ago

Papi: that is exactly one of the big variables: Deja Vu destroyed every club they touched (from the perspective of a PL, at least), and the incomparable and storied MBOT got the double-whammy of Jim dying and a legal settlement may have tied their hands as far as ever returning to greatness. So yes, it could all be that Deja Vu, and not the economy, has been key variable since the early 2000s

Seems SC areas tend to be more adversely affected by political/ordinance factors/cycles than economic factors/cycles, although the latter does have its effects it doesn't seem to be as pronounced or long-lasting as the former.

I don't know that the quality of the girls is affected by the economy. We all have the fantasy of the smokin hot MILF or co-ed who resorts to stripping to make ends meet, buy it is only a fantasy.
I do think that strippers will be more open to extras in a down economy, since there will be overall fewer customers and those who do come to the club will want more mileage for their dollar.

Papi the tech bubble played out all over, with the money from tech, South Florida had a tremendous construction boom,which ran from about 2002 to about 2007, the real estate market was fueled by that money, it also played a large part in the stock market crash with so many dollars chasing crazy returns, we are still feeling the effects from those crazy valuations today.

TiredTraveler -- >"1] Does a good economy mean better clubbing because more money is available to be spent on entertainment drawing better talent, plus will more or less be available from the dancers if they make more and does it mean extras prices will rise?"

I apologize in advance for the SJG-length of this post.

tl;dr - Because of all of the extras customers, the old days are never coming back.


I subscribe to the rising tide lifts all boats hypothesis, too. Though the "better economy" seems to be skewed more to certain individuals and not all working class as it has in the past. So that part is different than in the recent past (1945-2009). Not all workers are getting raises. I do think that better take home dollars for dancers attracts hotter dancers.

Do however think that the availability or the prevalence of "extras" does seem to drive many of the hotter girls out of the market. If the dancers had their way, it would be strip tease and stage shows -- the strip club model -- and if the customers had their way, it would be ultra high mileage, BBBJ, and CFS -- the brothel model. I do think the market equilibrium is closer to the brothel model and the show model where it exists almost has to be propped up (or exists only in the U.S. and not so much Europe or Asia).

I think "extras customer" ultimately ruin strip clubs. Or they will ruin them in the long run.

TiredTraveler -- >"2] Does a good economy mean less quality girls because more decent paying low skill jobs are out there drawing off the talent, plus will the girls be less willing to do more if they can make money without extras?"

I think the variable you need to control is extras. The mere availability (at non-stratospheric prices) pressures many girls to leave. The only reason the girls stay is because changing social norms about sex and sex work and limited opportunity (or the perception of limited opportunity).

TiredTraveler -- >"What do you think and why?"

There are a few changes that happened since the late '90s and today.

1. A landmark set of law suits brought against corporate boardrooms on the normalization of Strips Clubs as a business expense. These were corporate ladder climbing liberal women who perceived male colleagues using Strip Clubs to close sales deals as unfair gender advantage and wanted to close that. The law suits were successfully brought. This caused the "show" clientele of business meetings, sales meetings, or just guys plain using the corporate P-Card off the clock to get a couple drinks and tip a little to stop. So overnight about 25% of SC spending immediately vanished. The hole would be filled with hobbyists and those seeking a bigger "bang" for their *ahem* buck.

2. 9/11 caused an economic downturn and a loss of consumer confidence. This affected SC and discretionary spending. People were less optimistic about the future.

3. post 2007 or post 2009 economic downturn caused a lot of customers, particular middle class or working class to leave the clubs. Plus this class of customer no longer had access to a "piggy bank" in the form of equity refinancing of mortgages which ended with the housing bubble. A lot of working class and middle class consumer spending (credit and cash) was driven from equity tapped from homes.

4. The market is at saturation rate as for the about of money that customers are willing to part with. Club Owners cannot raise cover charges. Club owners cannot raise drink prices. The customer will not pay and will leave. Faced with raising rent costs, rising energy prices, rising insurance costs, and high taxes the owners are squeezing the only ones with money -- the dancers. Gone are hourly wages for dancers on top of tips. Dancers now are independent contractors and they have stage/ house fees. Dancers have tips outs (to help the owner cover payroll). To cover all of these fees, some dancers resort to extras or OTC. This puts pressure on the other dancers: accept less money, provide extras, or leave.

5. The Internet made available a vast about of information and intel on clubs. Customers now had far more information on clubs, dancers, and how to make their $200 (or whatever) go as far as possible though information on discussion boards or reviews. Plus the Internet gave us access to cheap porn. First it was cheap erotic pictures. Now it is cheap video porn. Earlier guys might have had the option of a $50 grainy VHS porn tape, a Playboy magazine from the newsstand, $100 rub and tug from a (probably unattractive) streetwalker, or spend $100-700 at a strip club and get a live show with hot girls. Many guys opted for the SC, even without extras. Nowadays, guys looking for a "show" will just surf for porn. Those who club, will *ahem*, expect a bigger *bang* for their *buck* which implies extras or OTC. And a dancer not willing to do that might see customers reluctant to spend (their few discretionary dollars) on her.


Because of all of the extras customers, the old days are never coming back. And I miss the old days!

Edit to add: #4 - raising legal fees for club owners. A club owner needs access to a good lawyer with local city ordinances these days.

"The Economy" is a mind fuck. There is no such thing. The only reason we need these market indices is so that the news has something to report on.

High stock market means that people are putting money into speculation, instead of things more tangible to them. You can measure how sick our society is by two things:

1. How high the stock market indices are.

2. How much money is going into churches.

As far as strip clubs, well with each boom and bust cycle, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, so we become more like a third world country, and so our strip clubs continue to become more and more brothels.

SJG

math.com

https://www.amazon.com/Mystery-Babalon-B…

I definitely believe that a better economy leads to a better class of dancers. While there may also be more low skilled jobs, I think that the amount of money pouring into clubs during boom times becomes too hard for some girls to ignore.

On the extras front, I think that the girls who are more likely to do them for extra cash always will. Where one sees a drop-off in my experience is with the bubble girls, who will put out if they must but will opt not to do so when things are already flush. My two all time favorites were bubble girls, who were making too much money to easily coax OTC while times were flush, but who became great favorites during '08-10.

Anyway, just my two cents.

I skipped over the 1995-2016 years so a lot of the ups and downs I see being discussed I can't comment on but what I see both from now starting to go back into the clubs and also from a few girls I knew before they were dancers who now are dancers is if you are good at it, and in the right club, there is still money to be made. But there are fewer middle of the road girls--every club I've been in has 1-3 lookers and they are busy and all the other girls are at the bar, out of sight ( and not with clients-patio smoke breaks, in the changing room, etc.

The other thing I am hearing a lot of in the last few weeks is the slow season is starting...... and it almost isn't worth dancing again until October ---I've heard this in three different clubs in the past month.

It gets slow during the summer in a lot of clubs (custies taking vaca and tending to kids out of school, MILF dancers also tending to the out od school kids and taking vacation and visiting family)

The other thing I was going to comment and my hotel Internet connection dropped is the dancers tend to have a skewed view of the guys ( yeah I know, imagine that) For one thing the idea we all are making 250 K or more a year is doubtful. There are not that many guys who do ( 2% of the population in this country if I recall) minus all the ones that for one reason or another are not in a club---and the numbers don't add up.

Strippers are good at looking at a guys watch or his gold card, etc. but math and finance are not their majors.

So I feel many of the go in with unrealistic expectations, and when things do not measure up they go--good economy or bad this happens. What the economy impacts are peoples mood--clients/us- we see our 401's or our portfolio's climb and we relax--bonuses if in sales- higher home values, etc.

The other entity that it impacts is the club itself......because middle of the road girl, or killer cash cow he gets a fee ( hell I found out some clubs charge even if the dancer doesn't show up--if she is scheduled she pays the club regardless if she needs the day/night off or not......they pull in the crowds increase- the bar sales.........( no I am not an attorney for dancers)

@warrenboy75 you made a mistake about our incomes we all make 350k or more; )

IMO... more money draws in better looking dancers.
However, those dancers are not as desperate to provide mileage, and generally don't need to because there is too much easy money being thrown around.

Remember the Dougster hypothesis, really just boosting, that an economic boom would dry up the supply of FS strippers.

Nonsense of course. The booms increase the wealth divide. And the busts increase the wealth divide.

SJG

Lenin, insisting that the Czar must be shot, as early as 1903. I'm liking Lenin more and more.
https://youtu.be/mYo8SEvnsrM?t=26m17s

I would *assume* that in good-times more girls can get away w/ not doing extras and still make good $$$ - during bad-times the hardcore SCers. many of whom are high-mileage or extras PLs, will be a bigger % of the PL-pool - in good-times one can assume a lot more of the soft-core PLs may visit more often and many of these are not necesarily looking for extras (although extras do deter many dancers from dancing but I'm not sure it is a death-nail in good-times; but perhaps so in certain specific clubs or areas).

I would think that unlikely Papi. Both booms and busts increase the wealth gap.

SJG

Dark Lord
https://conspiracyrevue.files.wordpress.…

Last of the Czars
https://youtu.be/mYo8SEvnsrM

https://dublinsmickdotcom.files.wordpres…

Papi hit it on the head.

SJG is a fucking moron.

Just compare Manhattan to Detroit.

Quality of dancers goes up. Mileage goes down.