I heard the biggest non nuclear bomb was recently dropped on the cave complexes in Afghanistan that ISIS uses. I'm kind of wondering how effective that is with caves. I can imagine survivors saying that was a big one. Reminds me of some alien big movie Storm ship troopers or something. ISIS is like the bugs.
More talk about getting some agreements on tax cuts would be good right now.
I think more people care about his promise to not get into any more foreign wars. There's a huge revolt among his base right now.
That article was a government plant. The event did happen, but the 'bunker busting' bombs is nothing new, or even newsworthy in the big picture. Funny it's on the internet fast track...actually not so funny at all.
You need to see a counselor or get some medication for that paranoia, Rock star.
I'm buyin' more of them defense stocks.
Oh so this is a big deal gammy? You must be joking. Or are playing ostrich.
Supposedly the bomb was dropped at 7:32 pm local-time - I imagine dinner was ruined for quite a few ISIS fighters
Mother-Of-All-Lets-Improve-My-Approval-Numbers.
Putting in perspective, MOAB releases 1000x less energy than smallest nuke used on Hiroshima. And modern nukes are still another 100x more destructive than Hiroshima.
Here you go Rockster, this could help you understand why the first-ever use of the MOAB is significant
insider.foxnews.com And no, I'm not kidding, you really do need counseling and medication for your issues. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Trump is doing pretty much exactly what he said he would do as president. He's bombing the shit out of isis and is sending ships to do the same to the fat little North Korean nerd. If you didn't expect this then you weren't listening to him in the campaign.
And there's no revolt against Trump among his followers. Thats just a liberal fantasy.
And I do apologize for making a political post. I'm probably just still a little high from last night.
Two fucking world leaders with nuclear weapons playing chicken in the Korean Peninsula, @Smith. Shouldn't you go back to droning on about your last orgasm?
Thermobaric bomb? Nice. 46GJ. Nice. :)
Correct -- Little Boy (Hiroshima bomb) was 63TJ.
The MOAB costs $16 million per unit. They estimate that this detonation killed 36 ISIS combatants. That's about $444,000 per kill.
There's about 1,500 ISIS combatants total in Afghanistan. That low number is due to the fact that the Taliban (25,000 combatants in Afghanistan) has been very effective in killing them off in a violent turf war.
ISIS in Afghanistan has been struggling for relevance and members, and they are losing that struggle. The reason why they are living in caves and not in villages is because they aren't safe from Taliban attacks out in the open.
So, it appears that we spent $16 million to kill 36 guys that the Taliban would have killed at a much lower price point.
But it does create good optics for Trump supporters. So... there's that.
Well, I admit when I'm wrong. That bomb was indeed newsworthy.
Read an article that said by using that bomb on caves they are hoping it deters terrorist groups from using the tunnels.
Sure. As of now, terrorists will move there camps to open, grassy pastures. Or, they will continue to use caves because there's a very low statistical chance that we'll use a MOAB every time a group of guerrilla fighters crawl into a cave.
Keep in mind that because of their expense and limited utility, there's only 26 MOABs (well, 25 now).
It seems to me that napalm would be fairly effective against cave networks, and cheaper than MOABs.
"... The MOAB costs $16 million per unit. They estimate that this detonation killed 36 ISIS combatants. That's about $444,000 per kill ..."
Perhaps they were trying to send a message more than how many ISIS would be killed?
If the message is "We don't know how to match munitions to the mission.", then I'd say the message has been broadcast effectively.
The other possibility is that the Afghanistan mission was a dress rehearsal in advance of targeting hardened underground nuclear missile sites in North Korea. Because those are the type of targets that the MOAB was actually designed to address, both in terms of weapon design and weapon expense.
I remember that huge bomb. They used a B1 Bomber, rarely used, to drop one on Bagdad because they thought Saddam was eating in restaurant. It wiped out an entire city block and made a crater about 3 stories deep.
SJG
None of this makes us safer here or anyone safer over there. These problems have to be solved in those countries, not by wanton destruction coming from here.
SJG
"... The MOAB costs $16 million per unit. They estimate that this detonation killed 36 ISIS combatants. That's about $444,000 per kill ..."
It was like that in Vietnam too, huge cost per enemy combatant killed. That bomb is for special purposes only.
But the solution is mostly political and economic. Using large scale force does not help.
SJG
Jeff Healey - All Along The Watchtower youtube.com
Make no mistake about it. We dropped that bomb on ISIS, but the message was cc'ed to the fat mongoloid in DPRK and Ass-hat in Syria.
ISIS does not care how many bombs like that are dropped on them or how many of their people are killed. They are not a nation state.
SJG
Well apparently Obama started the process to get the bomb over there so that has been in the works for a while. I heard the decision was up to the military. 16 million is worth it in terms of saving several American lives.
I think everyone but the murdering dictator in North Korea is a bit nervous what Trump is up to. I'd rather China put some heavy pressure on NK to suspend their nuclear program or else cut off food and trade. It would be like a castle siege. I don't believe the North Korean dictator is rational. Hmmm, Trump might understand him.
I suspect that they keep some stuff like that over there at all times. That was how it was when they dropped one because they thought Saddam was eating in a restaurant.
And also, via a large transport plane they can get something like that over their fairly quickly.
After all, Trump does not care at all about how much money he spends. It is all just theater.
SJG
Remember that recent SEAL team attack. one SEAL killed, losing a $75 million vertical take off aircraft, and killing lots of women and children.
All just theater, not military gain because the enemy is not a real military, and so their are no fronts and their side gains as much from this as Trump does.
SJG
I thought Clinton tried a carrot trade and NK agreed to dismantle their nuclear program. What went wrong? I don't know. Maybe boosting missile defense systems is a better approach than restarting the war with NK.
I think we need super weapons we could deploy to shoot down all missiles launched from NK and huge solar mirrors that could open up in space and make the entire country in NK directly north of the border hot enough to fry any exposed skin of marching solders and overheat NK military vehicles even at night. In peacetime the platform could be used for solar power or lighting up cities at night, not hot, just light, for a charge for special events. Anyone want parades, football games, baseball games with full sunlight in the evening?
Missile defense systems are not reliable enough to depend on.
SJG
If they develop a big mothership with shields and park it over North Korea, that might do it. Obama said he wasn't going to build the Death Star though. Trump can talk about building something smaller and call it the mother of all space ships. It needs Shields like the aliens have in the movies or like the shields in Stargate SG1 when they had advanced Asgard tech. Then we could act like the big bad ass aliens raining destructive pulses down on NK until they surrender. Of course we don't have any of this stuff so Trump is asking for trouble if he attacks. I'd prefer to wait and build better tech. Trump is a businessman so we can hope all this talk is tough talk to get NK and China to make deals.
A mothership? And how exactly does this work?
Using fuel to hover?
In geosynchronous orbit? 22,000 miles up or something like that?
And shields, how does that work?
And don't you think that many countries would find this provocative and destabilizing to even attempt?
You know, the reason why the Space Shuttle was such a disappointment is that it was designed from the start to serve a covert purpose. The design going back to the 50's, it was designed to be able to take a load of nuclear weapons up, and to stay up there a while, and then to bring them back down.
That capability of bringing large things back down completely screwed up the entire design. The orbiter had to be large, pushing tire and aviation technology to the limit, and then placing extreme demands on those heat shield tiles, and requiring those extremely dangerous solid fuel boosters.
That capability was used once and once only, a telecommunications satellite brought back down for renovation, and then brought back up. But in no way did that justify the cost. As it stands now, there is nothing worth that cost of the bring down capability except human life.
But because of this thinly veiled space weapons capability, that entire Space Shuttle program was a huge disappointment in all ways.
SJG
SJG you missed the whole point of my post. I was describing alien advanced tech we do not have. Since we do not have super advanced alien tech where we could make NK look like an ant compared to a super solder, we shouldn't provoke NK too much in my opinion. If we go poking around in a fire ant mound, I would hope we came prepared to battle and kill all the ants. Our tech isn't that far superior to others in that we can't prevent a major loss of life if NK decides to invade SK or launches attacks all over. So the best choice is diplomacy.
Okay, I did miss that. I'm glad your considering what the options would be for when we have that advanced alien tech.
And I agree that for right now, mostly, diplomacy is our best choice. I only wish our President understood this.
SJG
Well I'm hoping Trump is smarter than some think he is and is just saying all options are on the table to get a deal. I know when playing poker, which I haven't done in years, I wouldn't broadcast what my cards are and what I'm planning on purpose. Sounds like our military commander is trying diplomacy. I hope diplomacy succeeds.
The other option is the status quo while developing very advanced tech to shoot down any number of missiles or block missiles from reaching a certain altitude if we could develop advanced shields. That is like high tech alien stuff though in the movies. If NK is ok with the status quo, so am I. Everyone is wondering what Trump is ok with.
sharkhunter said: "16 million is worth it in terms of saving several American lives."
No, actually, it isn't. And I'm not saying that out of disdain for American lives. Exactly the opposite, in truth.
At $16 million for 36 kills, we basically bought 36 bullets at over $440,000 each. And, we used those very expensive bullets to kill 36 guys who are already in the Taliban's cross-hairs. Meaning, I have milk in my fridge that hads a longer expiration date than many of those guys.
Meanwhile in Iraq and Syria, American and allied forces are struggling with a new phenomenon: ISIS drones. ISIS is purchasing commercial off-the-shelf drones and outfitting them for both surveillance and to drop IEDs on friendly forces (including Americans). These drones are effective from up to 2 kilometers away, and they can fly high enough where people on the ground can't hear or easily see them. Also, we can't electronically jam them without also jamming friendly communication networks.
Ask an American soldier who has had an improvised bomb dropped dropped on his HQ whether or not he thinks we should have used $16 million to buy 36 very expensive bullets, or if we should put $16 million toward preventing ISIS drone attacks.
If the MOAB's deployment in Afghanistan wasn't a dry run for a mission-in-planning in North Korea, then Trump is an asshole. Honestly, I'm almost hoping that Trump is an asshole.
I just got back from McD's after dropping the MOAB.
ROFL! @Ishmael's talking common sense, here, @Tx. Trump LDKs every time we deploy one of these big weapons, and it's all one big publicity stunt after another. Anyway, @Ishmael has the best handle of anyone on TUSCL.
Good article for you, @Tx: talkingpointsmemo.com
@RandomMember- that article that you referenced, about militant ignorance, is the reason his followers follow him blindly.
We don't follow him blindly we just agree with everything he does
:)
Depending on things which can shoot down missiles, given how fast missiles go, is not reliable.
SJG
I think the most powerful non-nuclear bomb is a thermobaric pressure bomb, of course that was before the MOAB. The overpressure wave from either would liquify anyone in those caves when it blew. Bastards deserve it.