Was at a club in ATL (Oasis) where extras can sometimes be found. Ran into a somewhat wasted (despite her wristband) 18 year old brunette spinner (didn't get a name) that had worked there for about a month. This is a very "air dance" on the floor type of place, but she did a good job of rubbing Mr Johnson with her leg as she danced and managed a little stick shifting. We started chitchatting and she asked what other clubs I went to. I mentioned Follies and she launched into the "those girls are just whores" spiel one often hears about Follies from dancers at other clubs. But then she offered up that she started dancing there but only lasted a few days. She said her first day there she f**ked six guys (her words) but after tipout she left with less that $500. She said she had to sell it so cheap because that is all "those whores" charge at Follies. She continued: "my body is worth more than that. I can f**k two or three guys here and leave with more money." I asked her what she was worth at Oasis. She reached over, grabbed Mr Johnson and said we could do whatever I wanted for $$$. I told her I would have to think about that. She said OK, hopped up and left! About 15 minutes later I saw her lead another guy to VIP.
So is that the real story? Other dancers are trash because they are willing to charge less than I am? I'm not a whore because I charge more? I want to deal with the fewest VIP's I can but still make my money?
Brunette spinner working at Follies, has to fuck 6 guys to make $500
Same brunette spinner working at Oasis, has to fuck 2 guys to make $500
Another example:
goldmongerATL works 40 hours a week at Biff's Sprockets and makes $1,000
goldmongerATL has to work his normal 40 hours a week plus a Saturday of overtime at Jim's Tires to make $1,000
- which place are you going to work at?
She got undercut at Follies, therefore all those bitches are whores in her eyes just like you'd say all those guys at Jim's Tires are saps if you were working at Biff's Sprockets.
I think the answer to your question is: I want to fuck the least guys possible to make the most amount of money.
Well, I would argue that there's no moral difference between the girls at Oasis versus Follies. Where the difference comes in is market value and negotiating skills.
If she has found a way to make more money while providing services at her desired level, more power to her.
Goldmonger - That whore is full of shit. Tip out a Follies is not based on how many VIPs a stripper does. She pays the same as a dancer that does not do any.
I met a dancer last year at Follies that lives in Tampa and works at "Oz" in Clearwater. She works at Follies when she visits family here. She said that she gets $30/dance at Oz. So I asked why work her for only $10/dance. She replied because she makes more by selling in volume. At $30 per she doesn't sell that many.
One of the saddest things I've ever seen at a strip club was a dancer at Follies who would do anything and everything for $100 otc. She then lowered her price to $75, and I have little doubt that I could have gotten her down to $50, maybe $40. Those are lap dance king prices. She was mid 30s, had recently had a baby so she had some mommy fat left, but still she was a good looking woman. Even I thought she was worth far more than she was charging. I've never understood how/why everything at Follies is so cheap. I'm not complaining, but I think I'd feel just like this girl if I were in her position.
Driving her asshole did not come up in the conversation :-)
But I think the driving analogy holds. I bet girls charging more than her are stuck up bitches.
@shadowcat - yeah, not sure of her math. I suppose technically of she did 6 VIP and zero lapdances or stage work it is possible,but I think there is at least a couple of hundred unaccounted in her story. I think it was really more about netting $100 vs $250 per cock. If it was really about the money and the volume was really there, she would be doing 5-6 X$250 at Oasis.
But, there is that millennial attitude of only working enough to get he money you need. In the extreme example, she could do two VIP for $300 and go home if that's all she thought she needed to make. No concept that if she did a third one she would leave with 50% more.
SUBRA -- You forgot to credit George Carlin as the originator of your remark. Rates are meaningless in a bottom line world. In Massachusetts a divorcing person has to file a financial statement and put down the retainer paid to the atty; how much has been billed and the anticipated future range of expenses. After a case last week the couple chatted about it and the wife asked my client why her bill was up to 4,000 and his bill was about $1,000.00 less. She wondered his hourly rate, since she was paying $225 an hour. When he told her $275 she freaked out. They then compared bills - She was charged 4 hours for the last ct appearance; he was charged 2.9. Apparently the 2 lawyers use different clocks.
BTW, back in the golden age of SF, we saw this effect massively. We had two pretty awesome clubs: Market Street Cinema, which strikes me as being like Follies -- fair to middling girls, offering everything and anything at low prices. And Mitchell Bros, which at the time was easily the match of any club in the country for the beauty of the lineup (at the time it was drawing the hottest Vegas girls, first and only time I've ever seen the hot girl migration go OUT of Vegas), with girls offering anything and everything at GPS prices. We had a few famous cases of a rare hot chick working at MSC and offering FS for $120, then moving to MB and her price is now immediately $300...
I think Whore is Latin for 1. My Competition 2. Anyone who reduces the value of *my* pussy on the open market. I'm pretty sure our wifes and GF (Except for Skibum and me) think all of the dancers are whores for the same reason as the ATL dancer. It's just perspective.
I think any decent looking extras girl fucking even just one guy and leaving with less than $500 is selling herself short or doesn't know how to hustle.
My club is virtually no extras and as far as a I know, doesnt have much of an OTC scene either. So I don't have to deal with this. But around the area (Detroit) extras are so rampant that they've even become what I would consider cheap at the nicest of clubs and girls are undercutting each other just to compete.
That's sad because imo as a ho, you shouldn't ever walk away with less than 1k. And before anyone tries to doubt me, I know actual hoes who make 1k on a slow night. They give all their money to their pimp at the end of the night, but (as silly as this sounds), they follow their pimps instructions and make a couple thousand a day, sometimes more. One girl I know's pimp just flew her out to Miami for a couple dates and she made almost 7 grand in two nights. She was a happy ho and her pimp was paid. She is his top ho, but I doubt he has the other girls doing dates without coming home with at least a band.
And then there are the smartest bitches who don't need pimps and can ho on their own and make 20k a month and keep their earnings.
These girls doing 8 hr shifts at the strip club coming home with $500 after fucking multiple men have low hustle skills or maybe need a new club.
***disclaimer I'm not a ho but if I was I would not even bother to "set up a date" with a man who wasn't paying at least 1000/hr. Some of you guys think these guys are hard to find but they're actually quite easy to find if you're smart, then you give excellent service and build a rapport and boom you got yourself a regular.
20K a month? That would be $240,000 a year. God damn some of these strippers are paid. It's almost as if Daddilac or JS69 was one of their regular customers.
It's a good thing most girls don't listen to Ninas advice since we are the buyers.
Nina is right though, I've seen first hand girls pulling the money she's talking about in large cities. Clearing $21k in 19 days, $5k on a Friday and Saturday night, etc. Sadly the majority of strippers I've personally known to do that in the past are broke today, with nothing to show for it.
I know one that was trying to save up $300,000 in 3 years, so she could go back home, buy a nice house paying cash, then go back to her teaching job and live a normal quiet life. Seemed like an awesome idea, only she smoked on average 3-4 doobies a day, so I'm not sure how she could pull off teaching with that habit.
I'd say any particular stripper -- ***if*** she has the looks, hustle, and knowledge -- can pull down $1k/date guys. The stripper I know in Vegas, and her little circle of friends, regularly get bought off shift for $500-$1000, and that does not include sex (yes, seriously!). Yes, Vegas customer are particularly impulsive/stupid, but that's part of the point -- that group of strippers definitely has the looks and hustle, and they know exactly how to find these types of men, reasonably regularly.
That said, the fact that the top few percent of strippers could pull this off, doesn't mean it's generally available to the vast majority of strippers. If all strippers who are willing to perform OTC sex magically agreed they'd all hold out for $1k/sex date, it should be obvious that supply is so incredibly plentiful and demand is so low for $1k sex dates, that nearly all of them would be back down to $300 as soon as rent came due. Or, if the sisterhood magically held the line at $1k, most of them would just never get a sex date ever, and most of us as customers would just move on to escorts, Seeking Arrangements (which, despite the fantasy world painted in SW, is also replete with beautiful young sugarbabies engaging in sex for quite affordable rates), etc.
The free-market/competition pretty-much always tends to bring prices down - there will usually always be a high-end market but it's limited, kinda like first-class on flights
I started an entire thread about this subject last week, but I agree with Nina and Subraman on pricing. I've definitely never experienced OTC for less (or more) than $1,000. That's my threshold, but this is mostly in Vegas so I know it has its own price scale.
Quite frankly I just think these strippers are good at judging opportunity costs. They take everything into account, i.e. The club they work at, their own attractiveness, time investment, bills, etc.
Do you pay $1k b/c that is what they asked for w/o you negotiating or knowing-better; or did you negotiate and they did not budge? There is a difference.
One often hears of dancers complaining it's hard to even sell-dances - thus custies able and willing to pay $1k are one would think a pretty-small minority.
In the context of ITC VIP; one would think it'd be a hell of a lot easier to sell 3 $300 VIPs vs one $1k VIP.
w.r.t. OTC - I can see certain dancers being worth $1k but not for an hour or two - more like a day-long date - and that would apply to just certain dancers - not just *a* dancer.
Papi -- in the case of the strippers I was referring to, the girls frame it as buying them off shift, and so it's understood they'll hang out all day or all night. The guys get to party with the hottest chicks in the place on their arms, and all is good, I guess. Except, and I'll repeat this again in case anyone missed it, that $1000 does NOT buy the guys sex. In fact, the VIP hosts who direct the girls to the big spenders are more likely to get action than the guys spending $1000, but even that's sporadic at best. Like I said, Vegas is stupid.
There's a good # of PLs for whom a thousand bucks it's not a huge-deal - especially if it's something they do only once in a while vs being a regular SC goer where IMO value becomes more important if one is hitting the SC weekly or couple of times per month.
UPDATE - went back a week later. The girl is now a blonde (wig) with big fake nerd glasses, but they work for her. Now sober, did not act like she remembered me from last week. Got the story of needing money for rent/bills. She started at $200 but $120 plus room fee of $25 got me all I wanted. That was after I agreed to buy her three shots in 10 minutes, so add $30 to the total if you like.
So, not sure if the story and attitude the first night was the booze, bad mood, not being hard up for money that night, thought I looked like a sucker, I smelled, afraid of my huge cock, etc. etc. or what. Also cannot tell if the first night or the second night was the normal attitude.
So, the plan if I see her next time is to see what she offers. If it is back to being pricey I will just remind her of what we did for $120.
Yep, the day before I posted. It was the 30th, Nina. She even said she needed to make rent and her car payment.
Begs the question, where the hell does all her money go? From talking to her, she works Thursday Friday Saturday only (an out of towner). She made it sound like she netted $700 and up per night. Even at 10 days a month, that's a minimum of $7000 take home!
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Brunette spinner working at Follies, has to fuck 6 guys to make $500
Same brunette spinner working at Oasis, has to fuck 2 guys to make $500
Another example:
goldmongerATL works 40 hours a week at Biff's Sprockets and makes $1,000
goldmongerATL has to work his normal 40 hours a week plus a Saturday of overtime at Jim's Tires to make $1,000
- which place are you going to work at?
She got undercut at Follies, therefore all those bitches are whores in her eyes just like you'd say all those guys at Jim's Tires are saps if you were working at Biff's Sprockets.
I think the answer to your question is: I want to fuck the least guys possible to make the most amount of money.
If she has found a way to make more money while providing services at her desired level, more power to her.
Dancers don't even think they're prostitutes if they do OTC or provide orgasms ITC for money. It's a common disconnect they have.
I met a dancer last year at Follies that lives in Tampa and works at "Oz" in Clearwater. She works at Follies when she visits family here. She said that she gets $30/dance at Oz. So I asked why work her for only $10/dance. She replied because she makes more by selling in volume. At $30 per she doesn't sell that many.
- Everyone driving slower than you is a moron
- Everyone driving faster than you is a maniac
One thing in common: they're all assholes who are driving at the wrong speed, just assholes in different ways
JS69 - inflating strippers egos since 2009!!!!!
Subra's very right - everyone's an asshole - especially Juice!!!!
But I think the driving analogy holds. I bet girls charging more than her are stuck up bitches.
@shadowcat - yeah, not sure of her math. I suppose technically of she did 6 VIP and zero lapdances or stage work it is possible,but I think there is at least a couple of hundred unaccounted in her story. I think it was really more about netting $100 vs $250 per cock. If it was really about the money and the volume was really there, she would be doing 5-6 X$250 at Oasis.
But, there is that millennial attitude of only working enough to get he money you need. In the extreme example, she could do two VIP for $300 and go home if that's all she thought she needed to make. No concept that if she did a third one she would leave with 50% more.
John their is 3 hot reds at follies days...one is a solid 8 maybe even a DS quality
Fuck that Biff's place!!
Exactly! What worries me a bit is the famous proverb quoted by the great Raylan Givens:
"You run into an asshole in the morning ... you ran into an asshole.
You run into assholes all day ... you're the asshole."
I reckon many of us on this forum run into assholes all day.
My club is virtually no extras and as far as a I know, doesnt have much of an OTC scene either. So I don't have to deal with this. But around the area (Detroit) extras are so rampant that they've even become what I would consider cheap at the nicest of clubs and girls are undercutting each other just to compete.
That's sad because imo as a ho, you shouldn't ever walk away with less than 1k. And before anyone tries to doubt me, I know actual hoes who make 1k on a slow night. They give all their money to their pimp at the end of the night, but (as silly as this sounds), they follow their pimps instructions and make a couple thousand a day, sometimes more. One girl I know's pimp just flew her out to Miami for a couple dates and she made almost 7 grand in two nights. She was a happy ho and her pimp was paid. She is his top ho, but I doubt he has the other girls doing dates without coming home with at least a band.
And then there are the smartest bitches who don't need pimps and can ho on their own and make 20k a month and keep their earnings.
These girls doing 8 hr shifts at the strip club coming home with $500 after fucking multiple men have low hustle skills or maybe need a new club.
SJG
Marilyn Ferguson
http://www.potentialsmedia.com/MarilynFe…
Aquarian Conspiracy
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/paradigm-…
Aquarius - Love, Drugs and Dead Hookers (Episode Highlight)
David Duchovny
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http://www.vietnamesecoffeeshops.com/wp-…
Nina is right though, I've seen first hand girls pulling the money she's talking about in large cities. Clearing $21k in 19 days, $5k on a Friday and Saturday night, etc. Sadly the majority of strippers I've personally known to do that in the past are broke today, with nothing to show for it.
I know one that was trying to save up $300,000 in 3 years, so she could go back home, buy a nice house paying cash, then go back to her teaching job and live a normal quiet life. Seemed like an awesome idea, only she smoked on average 3-4 doobies a day, so I'm not sure how she could pull off teaching with that habit.
That said, the fact that the top few percent of strippers could pull this off, doesn't mean it's generally available to the vast majority of strippers. If all strippers who are willing to perform OTC sex magically agreed they'd all hold out for $1k/sex date, it should be obvious that supply is so incredibly plentiful and demand is so low for $1k sex dates, that nearly all of them would be back down to $300 as soon as rent came due. Or, if the sisterhood magically held the line at $1k, most of them would just never get a sex date ever, and most of us as customers would just move on to escorts, Seeking Arrangements (which, despite the fantasy world painted in SW, is also replete with beautiful young sugarbabies engaging in sex for quite affordable rates), etc.
Quite frankly I just think these strippers are good at judging opportunity costs. They take everything into account, i.e. The club they work at, their own attractiveness, time investment, bills, etc.
Do you pay $1k b/c that is what they asked for w/o you negotiating or knowing-better; or did you negotiate and they did not budge? There is a difference.
One often hears of dancers complaining it's hard to even sell-dances - thus custies able and willing to pay $1k are one would think a pretty-small minority.
In the context of ITC VIP; one would think it'd be a hell of a lot easier to sell 3 $300 VIPs vs one $1k VIP.
w.r.t. OTC - I can see certain dancers being worth $1k but not for an hour or two - more like a day-long date - and that would apply to just certain dancers - not just *a* dancer.
So, not sure if the story and attitude the first night was the booze, bad mood, not being hard up for money that night, thought I looked like a sucker, I smelled, afraid of my huge cock, etc. etc. or what. Also cannot tell if the first night or the second night was the normal attitude.
So, the plan if I see her next time is to see what she offers. If it is back to being pricey I will just remind her of what we did for $120.
Begs the question, where the hell does all her money go? From talking to her, she works Thursday Friday Saturday only (an out of towner). She made it sound like she netted $700 and up per night. Even at 10 days a month, that's a minimum of $7000 take home!