Their is no true seducation, their is no true build up...it's all wam bam thank you mam.....call me a queer if you need to but I love not having a dancer right off the bat...I love the visits...the playful dances....sedction....lust...build up.....fantasy....then booom. Passionate love making with your bitch
Shailynn doesn't say much about it but when he gazed upon my eyes he witnessed the glory of the lord and the true beauty of the world...yes my blue eyes are that sexy and enchanting. Shailynn left that day weeping and singing the praises of the beauty of da eyes of da mane
Rick it's kinda true since my father passed when I was 22...I have lacked a Man's advice and guidance in my life and I found it on tuscl...a lot of you older men have been growing me from a boy into a man...I am forever grateful
Dominic you hit the nail with the proverbial hammer....it feels very empty and unsatisfying unless you haven't gotten laid in a few months then extras clubs are perfect to quench the thirst.
You're maybe too young to know about this, but back in the 1970's there was this TV mini-series called "Sybil" about a young woman with mulitple personalities. It was based on a book that I think was a true story.
Especially then, TV couldn't be too graphic or suggestive but it was clearly hinted at that the multiple personalities were a result of hideous sexual abuse as a child.
Can't find specific mention. But it was in a Michael Stone video, about his 22 levels of evil. This woman was in one of the top two levels. But there actually are quite a few women torturers and killers of that extreme type.
About Extra's Clubs, like I've always said I don't go along with the concept of 'extras'. The whole choreography of it is wrong. Not interested in ejaculation services. Instead, I want the girl to open up to me. So anything else can wait until that first hurdle has been cleared.
Lap dancing used to mean lap sitting, and the GFE potential in that was large.
Ejaculation services only became common when they went to booths and back rooms, and it is mostly a way to take in more money, especially for the house.
Fortunately at some of the most extreme dives, front room lap sitting and GFE are common now, with also the back room available.
Btw, it's called "Dissociative Identity Disorder" not "Multiple Personality Disorder". Let's try and be exact here folks. After all we are not just trying to entertain but also to educate.
SJG --> " ... went to booths and back rooms, and it is mostly a way to take in more money, especially for the house." --> end quote
That's how I've always felt about rooms. The cut for the house is too big / I'd rather have more of the $ going towards the girl. I'm always felts rooms were a bad deal. IMO..
Dominic77, now of course the club does need to make money. They have expenses, and they also face lots of risks. There is always a venue, and someone has to pay for it.
Hopefully market forces will keep club takes in line. But criminalizing aspects of this does run the costs up.
But there is also another issue which I feel is more serious. The booths and the back rooms screw up the entire choreography of the interaction. Lap Dancing started in MBOT, and it meant lap sitting. What else went with that varied widely.
But the reason Jim and Artie were able to win in a jury trial and keep Diane Feinstein from sending them off to prison, was simply that there were no booths or backrooms. So the argument could be made that it was all being done more for shock value, or sex education value, rather than just sexual gratification.
May sound silly, but Jim Mitchell was influenced by a DATY oriented audience participation show he saw in Copenhagen.
And I have been influenced by making out with an extremely cute black girl at SF New Century. That she could be that open with a total stranger, completely blew me away. She should be publicly funded. And of course the money I spent is inconsequential considering the ways the experience influenced me. Suddenly I no longer wanted to be living the grey flannel life I'd been thrown into. I wanted to live a more bohemian and open life, a life more like hers. So it wasn't money for sexual gratification, it was just a limited expenditure for something which completely changed the ways I viewed myself and people.
So Jim and Artie were arrested and booked over 100 time each, and they went through two jury trials. Who else has done this?
It was after they faced these legal challenges and prevailed that the Mafia came in, and then followed by Deja Vu, and then it all moved to booths and back rooms. So it became 'wanna dance', instead of the unstructured free form moderate cost fraternizing which is the most likely to result in GFE.
So while eliminating from room contact does not necessarily mean that things are staying within any bounds in the back rooms, it does create a completely different impression about the club, and the typical back room interaction won't be much. A girl standing over you and performing some sort of silly service, is much more able to keep it all in bounds. Where as a girl sitting on your lap is more likely to interact with you in a more relaxed and more GFE conducive manner.
Now, I've explained these sorts of things before. There is something else I must add. I have been contacted by a senior Deja Vu executive, and we have had several extensive communications.
Deja Vu still runs most everything in San Francisco, all except Crazy Horse and MBOT. But what has changed is that they no longer publicly associate their name with most of the clubs, with any beyond Centerfolds. This is new. Though the executive only affirmed that they still run all these other clubs. He did not affirm my interpretations about the significance of this.
So of course they don't want to get clubs closed or to see people have go to prison. But my own view is that if they are to use Deja Vu as a brand name, then they will always have to be more conservative than other operators. So now that I see that they are no longer doing this in all places, it may be that things have changed.
In particular with no alcohol places like New Century, and Eden, 20's, and some others, still run by Deja Vu, but without public use of the name. These might, in my opinion, be more like the wilder and woolier clubs common in other parts of the country, the kinds of places where the girls just do it however they want. And typically this means that the most aggressive girls rule.
So the Deja Vu executive did not tell me most of this. He really could not. But what he wanted to show me was just that things are not always as they have been and that they are not the evil empire I've been taking them to be. And he was absolutely clear that in TJ they have been undercover and gone over every millimeter of the HK Bar operation. ( Tough job, but someone had to do it. ) They know that front room friendliness and GFE are what makes that go, and they are not going to screw it up in their own operation.
So I would define a modern clip joint as one where they restrict front room touching, including stuff that it would be hard to classify as illegal, just to get guys into the back rooms, instead of letting the girls do it their way.
So I don't know if this extends beyond San Francisco, but it looks like in the non-branded Deja Vu clubs, that they might not do this. Though this was not confirmed by the executive, it looks like they stopped branding most of the clubs in SF, so that they and let them run looser, mostly letting girls do what they want.
And then in TJ, they know that that is the key to the appeal of the experience.
What originally showed me how this works were the underground Mexican Bar shows in San Jose. They still don't have ITC high mileage. And there are still limits. But the girls can largely do it their way and they make more money by just going from one guy to another, and with a party tape which has no gaps between songs. And when they are trying to line a guy up for OTC, they will often go over the limits. It takes very little to get them into open tongue kissing and then into full DFKing, even though they aren't supposed to. When they want the OTC session, that is a main way for them to communicate their good intentions.
My concern is that owners already get their share (IMO) from cover charge (which I admit to using a coupon when I can), alcohol drink sales, and the house fee the dancers pay. IMO they get their fair share from the house fees (Stage fees). If I were buying extras, I could see the value in private rooms. Right now, I can't.
Actually the owners here in town don't seem to be half bad (if what the dancers have currently and historically been telling me is true). So I might be unnecessarily critical of the owners. But I still feel the dancers come first.
Well, like you say, its cover charges, refreshments, dancer access fees, and then the booths and the backrooms. It all ads up, but they do have high costs and high risks. They need insurance, and usually landlords charge a premium rent to bars and strip clubs.
We hope that competition will keep the house take within bounds.
But then as I am told by someone high up in Deja Vu, the strip club industry is having hard times itself right now. This is why Deja Vu likes to take over strip clubs in the US, rather than opening new ones.
The local ordinances about location of adult oriented businesses are probably unconstitutional. But these do discourage the opening of new clubs.
As far as which way the house uses to get its money, there are some things to consider.
1. Cover charges keep customers out. Not good. But sometimes no cover charge lets people in who don't plan to spend money. Very hard on dancers because too many customers want free groping. I know of an Oregon club, where dancer accounts describe it this way. Even though the girls seem happy to fulfill all your desires, and very economically, there isn't even much demand for that. The house wants to have no cover charge because they also serve food and they want the food people. So often the dancers are really just donating their time.
2. Lots of places do get their money out of the bar. I have always liked that, as I don't drink. So the drinkers pay for me. At the Sunnyvale Brass Rail I would get my soft drink at the hoffbrau price, instead of the bar price.
But if you have alcohol that makes for more rules, tied to the license, and those rules can be enforced with a lower standard of proof and no trial. So in many places you have to get rid of alcohol to have nudity and high mileage.
And then in California we have strict rules about hostess drinks. But if you take the alcohol away, then the rules are lifted. So you find this extreme drink hustle in the SoCal nude places, which irritates many and it is not cheap.
Hard to make money off of soft drinks and fruit juice, unless you do it with that "buy the lady a drink" routine.
3. With dancer access fees, that is fine. That is the most simple. But to get enough money that way the fees have to be high. This will impact some dancers more than others. And so those deeply impacted, if they plan to work there, they will need to be real aggressive. And then others will follow. Generally unless you rig it so girls make money, either they won't work there, or they won't follow any rules.
From my perspective this is best. Extreme girls who offer all they've got and won't take no for an answer. But this kind of club is the most likely to get busted.
So it you make it into some kind of a percentage, that will be unenforceable, unless:
4. You tie it to some kind of toll booth system, like the booths and backrooms. That is how you can get a variable access fee.
I have heard of a place in Tuscon where it is $15 for each 15min in one of their "Cabanas". Sounds good to me.
And I have heard of $50 per hour and probably a total 1 hour FS cost of $150 at a place in Florida.
Again, open competition should improve the situation. And also remember that strippers have to measure up to a higher standard of looks, than do escorts, adult entertainment, AMPs, AAMPs. If a girl has just got to please one guy, that is easier than pleasing a whole room full hands off.
I only take real exception to the set up when they are arbitrarily limiting Front Room Friendliness just to get more money out of guys. Not only does this raise the costs, but it screws up the entire choreography of the interaction. You need to be able to get your girl to open up to you and get GFE friendly. While not at zero cost, you still need to do this in an unstructured situation.
Some people like the LA hostess dancing clubs. They have the dance floor, and they have the couch rooms where things seem to get extremely GFE. But FS has to be outside. Never been there, and lots of strip club people find the women too Hispanic and also not attractive. And the tipping is expected to be higher in the couch room. But I still want to explore and find out, and OTC some girls too.
On a related forum some girls advertise and they use very GFE related pictures, suggestive of getting underneath her clothes, rather than actually undressing her. And one says, "GFE for all". But I also notice that both girls would have a hard time looks wise in a conventional strip club.
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Mikeya if the bitch truly sedeces me then yes she chacken fangers me wit dee sauces.
Don't get it twisted...I enjoy a good quick fuck like any American but I get in the mood for a good chase summerdaaa timers
I'm pretty sure you can negotiate that with the dancer if that's what you want.
One week Juice is like "fuck these hoez"
The next week he wants to fall in love and marry a stripper.
You've been reading too many of JS69's posts lately!!!!!!
JUICE CREW
https://youtu.be/7ZpcZC1mBIk
I need the chase and build up
John Smith has indoctrination me into the DS model....I need to find some 18 year old ass to punish
Indeed. Perhaps he'll be so "sophisticated" as to invent A System one day?
You're maybe too young to know about this, but back in the 1970's there was this TV mini-series called "Sybil" about a young woman with mulitple personalities. It was based on a book that I think was a true story.
Especially then, TV couldn't be too graphic or suggestive but it was clearly hinted at that the multiple personalities were a result of hideous sexual abuse as a child.
Please tell me that's not what happened to you!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_Dors…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Ar…
What might be even more surprising is that there was a woman in the late 50's, I think Sacramento CA, who was about as bad as Sybil's mother.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmDu68V…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTTp_Npa…
http://serial-killers.tumblr.com/post/14…
http://www.ranker.com/list/famous-female…
Can't find specific mention. But it was in a Michael Stone video, about his 22 levels of evil. This woman was in one of the top two levels. But there actually are quite a few women torturers and killers of that extreme type.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmDu68V…
SJG
Lap dancing used to mean lap sitting, and the GFE potential in that was large.
Ejaculation services only became common when they went to booths and back rooms, and it is mostly a way to take in more money, especially for the house.
Fortunately at some of the most extreme dives, front room lap sitting and GFE are common now, with also the back room available.
SJG
X- Have Nots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDAs5Jgo…
In the time of Sybil they were calling it MPD.
SJG
That's how I've always felt about rooms. The cut for the house is too big / I'd rather have more of the $ going towards the girl. I'm always felts rooms were a bad deal. IMO..
Hopefully market forces will keep club takes in line. But criminalizing aspects of this does run the costs up.
But there is also another issue which I feel is more serious. The booths and the back rooms screw up the entire choreography of the interaction. Lap Dancing started in MBOT, and it meant lap sitting. What else went with that varied widely.
But the reason Jim and Artie were able to win in a jury trial and keep Diane Feinstein from sending them off to prison, was simply that there were no booths or backrooms. So the argument could be made that it was all being done more for shock value, or sex education value, rather than just sexual gratification.
May sound silly, but Jim Mitchell was influenced by a DATY oriented audience participation show he saw in Copenhagen.
And I have been influenced by making out with an extremely cute black girl at SF New Century. That she could be that open with a total stranger, completely blew me away. She should be publicly funded. And of course the money I spent is inconsequential considering the ways the experience influenced me. Suddenly I no longer wanted to be living the grey flannel life I'd been thrown into. I wanted to live a more bohemian and open life, a life more like hers. So it wasn't money for sexual gratification, it was just a limited expenditure for something which completely changed the ways I viewed myself and people.
So Jim and Artie were arrested and booked over 100 time each, and they went through two jury trials. Who else has done this?
It was after they faced these legal challenges and prevailed that the Mafia came in, and then followed by Deja Vu, and then it all moved to booths and back rooms. So it became 'wanna dance', instead of the unstructured free form moderate cost fraternizing which is the most likely to result in GFE.
So while eliminating from room contact does not necessarily mean that things are staying within any bounds in the back rooms, it does create a completely different impression about the club, and the typical back room interaction won't be much. A girl standing over you and performing some sort of silly service, is much more able to keep it all in bounds. Where as a girl sitting on your lap is more likely to interact with you in a more relaxed and more GFE conducive manner.
Now, I've explained these sorts of things before. There is something else I must add. I have been contacted by a senior Deja Vu executive, and we have had several extensive communications.
Deja Vu still runs most everything in San Francisco, all except Crazy Horse and MBOT. But what has changed is that they no longer publicly associate their name with most of the clubs, with any beyond Centerfolds. This is new. Though the executive only affirmed that they still run all these other clubs. He did not affirm my interpretations about the significance of this.
So of course they don't want to get clubs closed or to see people have go to prison. But my own view is that if they are to use Deja Vu as a brand name, then they will always have to be more conservative than other operators. So now that I see that they are no longer doing this in all places, it may be that things have changed.
In particular with no alcohol places like New Century, and Eden, 20's, and some others, still run by Deja Vu, but without public use of the name. These might, in my opinion, be more like the wilder and woolier clubs common in other parts of the country, the kinds of places where the girls just do it however they want. And typically this means that the most aggressive girls rule.
So the Deja Vu executive did not tell me most of this. He really could not. But what he wanted to show me was just that things are not always as they have been and that they are not the evil empire I've been taking them to be. And he was absolutely clear that in TJ they have been undercover and gone over every millimeter of the HK Bar operation. ( Tough job, but someone had to do it. ) They know that front room friendliness and GFE are what makes that go, and they are not going to screw it up in their own operation.
So I would define a modern clip joint as one where they restrict front room touching, including stuff that it would be hard to classify as illegal, just to get guys into the back rooms, instead of letting the girls do it their way.
So I don't know if this extends beyond San Francisco, but it looks like in the non-branded Deja Vu clubs, that they might not do this. Though this was not confirmed by the executive, it looks like they stopped branding most of the clubs in SF, so that they and let them run looser, mostly letting girls do what they want.
And then in TJ, they know that that is the key to the appeal of the experience.
What originally showed me how this works were the underground Mexican Bar shows in San Jose. They still don't have ITC high mileage. And there are still limits. But the girls can largely do it their way and they make more money by just going from one guy to another, and with a party tape which has no gaps between songs. And when they are trying to line a guy up for OTC, they will often go over the limits. It takes very little to get them into open tongue kissing and then into full DFKing, even though they aren't supposed to. When they want the OTC session, that is a main way for them to communicate their good intentions.
SJG
Living his grey flannel life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBtLClr_…
Actually the owners here in town don't seem to be half bad (if what the dancers have currently and historically been telling me is true). So I might be unnecessarily critical of the owners. But I still feel the dancers come first.
We hope that competition will keep the house take within bounds.
But then as I am told by someone high up in Deja Vu, the strip club industry is having hard times itself right now. This is why Deja Vu likes to take over strip clubs in the US, rather than opening new ones.
The local ordinances about location of adult oriented businesses are probably unconstitutional. But these do discourage the opening of new clubs.
As far as which way the house uses to get its money, there are some things to consider.
1. Cover charges keep customers out. Not good. But sometimes no cover charge lets people in who don't plan to spend money. Very hard on dancers because too many customers want free groping. I know of an Oregon club, where dancer accounts describe it this way. Even though the girls seem happy to fulfill all your desires, and very economically, there isn't even much demand for that. The house wants to have no cover charge because they also serve food and they want the food people. So often the dancers are really just donating their time.
2. Lots of places do get their money out of the bar. I have always liked that, as I don't drink. So the drinkers pay for me. At the Sunnyvale Brass Rail I would get my soft drink at the hoffbrau price, instead of the bar price.
But if you have alcohol that makes for more rules, tied to the license, and those rules can be enforced with a lower standard of proof and no trial. So in many places you have to get rid of alcohol to have nudity and high mileage.
And then in California we have strict rules about hostess drinks. But if you take the alcohol away, then the rules are lifted. So you find this extreme drink hustle in the SoCal nude places, which irritates many and it is not cheap.
Hard to make money off of soft drinks and fruit juice, unless you do it with that "buy the lady a drink" routine.
3. With dancer access fees, that is fine. That is the most simple. But to get enough money that way the fees have to be high. This will impact some dancers more than others. And so those deeply impacted, if they plan to work there, they will need to be real aggressive. And then others will follow. Generally unless you rig it so girls make money, either they won't work there, or they won't follow any rules.
From my perspective this is best. Extreme girls who offer all they've got and won't take no for an answer. But this kind of club is the most likely to get busted.
So it you make it into some kind of a percentage, that will be unenforceable, unless:
4. You tie it to some kind of toll booth system, like the booths and backrooms. That is how you can get a variable access fee.
I have heard of a place in Tuscon where it is $15 for each 15min in one of their "Cabanas". Sounds good to me.
And I have heard of $50 per hour and probably a total 1 hour FS cost of $150 at a place in Florida.
Again, open competition should improve the situation. And also remember that strippers have to measure up to a higher standard of looks, than do escorts, adult entertainment, AMPs, AAMPs. If a girl has just got to please one guy, that is easier than pleasing a whole room full hands off.
I only take real exception to the set up when they are arbitrarily limiting Front Room Friendliness just to get more money out of guys. Not only does this raise the costs, but it screws up the entire choreography of the interaction. You need to be able to get your girl to open up to you and get GFE friendly. While not at zero cost, you still need to do this in an unstructured situation.
Some people like the LA hostess dancing clubs. They have the dance floor, and they have the couch rooms where things seem to get extremely GFE. But FS has to be outside. Never been there, and lots of strip club people find the women too Hispanic and also not attractive. And the tipping is expected to be higher in the couch room. But I still want to explore and find out, and OTC some girls too.
On a related forum some girls advertise and they use very GFE related pictures, suggestive of getting underneath her clothes, rather than actually undressing her. And one says, "GFE for all". But I also notice that both girls would have a hard time looks wise in a conventional strip club.
SJG