Let's talk about respect

18 comments

• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  JimJazz, my experiences are pretty similar to yours. And I agree that poorly mannered guys are often at fault. But I've also seen plenty of dancers with attitudes be rude to customers for no reason other than they feel like it, and I've had plently of dancers try to con me. These dancers create their own problems. It's no different than getting bad service from a restaurant or anywhere else where indifferent people work. If you're in the service business, it's your job to be nice to people. People who don't aren't going to get much respect.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  I respectfuly disagree that ladies are the ones at fault. If we as customers did not touch, ask to touch or try to touch their breasts and genitals these problems would shrink dramiticaly. My policy is to let them do all the contact and I have never once had a dancer get upset. If you allow the dancer to do the work , she stays in control of what is happening to her body and feels comfortable and safe and I get amazing dances. My girl tells me that dancers complain all the time about "octopus arms". I find its a simple equation to have a good time with no problems in stripclubs. Tip each stage dancer something and when getting dances let the dancer do all the contact. I seriously believe that is the key being that I have never had a dancer rip me off or had a dancer get upset either. I haven't had a single one of the problem I read other customers have with dancers. Why- because I don't do the things that dancers find disrespectful.
• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  One other point that occurs to me. A lot of dancers say they don't want to waste their time sitting and talking to customers. They should be aware that it's much harder to show disrespect for someone you know vs. a total stranger. So when they sit and talk for awhile before moving on to private dances, the customer is much more likely to show respect for the girl. That may not be true for everybody but it's very true for me. The better I get to know and like the girl the more respect I'm likely to show her.
• niceass

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  21 years ago

  Once again, FONDL, makes a good point. I've shared all the pitfalls that he described, including the dancer getting insulted becase who even asked or took her literally. The evasive, nondescript responses by dancers are more than just annoying and frustrating; they're down right dangerous. Many of the problems dancers have with customers are a direct result of misunderstandings from their lack of candor.
• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  I agree and I usually do ask a girl what the rules are in advance. The problem is that the girls are often evasive, saying things like "don't worry, you'll have a good time" or "I'm going to give you the best dance you've ever had," so the guy has to guess. Or worse yet I've had girls get annoyed that I even asked - guess they don't think I'm serious or something. I've had girls become annoyed because I did what they told me I could. Some girls get insulated so easily it's hard to imagine how they make a living as a dancer.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  I agree if a dancers personal rules differ with the club standard rules she should tell a customer prior to danceing. It is in both her and the customers best interest. I also think we as customers should ask what the rules are before get a dance too. My lady tells me quite a few of the problems occur when customers incorrectly assume or think/act as if their home clubs rules apply at all clubs. It just takes a second to ask the dancer what her rules are before getting a dance and can save alot of hassel or disapointment.
• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  Thank you niceass. I agree that the ball is in the ladies court, they're the ones who have to initiate any improvement in respect. I think girls are often too quick to pass negative judgment on a customer. It's their job to be as nice as can be. Why else would anyone pay them $400 per hour ($20 for 3 minutes.) And if they have personal rules that differ from the club's norm, it's their job to make sure the customer understands and agrees to it up front.
• niceass

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  21 years ago

  I think FONDL has quite alot of good things to say on this thread. Dancers don't respect customers because customers don't respect them. Sure it's a vicious cycle, one feeds the other. However, the owness to break the cycle is definately on the side of the dancer, not the customer. They're the professional being paid for their work. They have to show the patience and tolerance, just as a salesman in any other job would. In all the years I've been going to clubs, like FONDL, I've never witnessed a single case of assualt on a dancer. Though I have seen many social gaffs either because of drunkeness, naivete or simply lack of social skills. Being a dancer takes a certain amount of emotional thoughness and a great deal of self-confidence. Lately, I find those qualities missing and being substituted for dancers who have a sense of entitlement and fully expect to be treated like pampered princesses. For them, the slightest word out of place can bring about retaliation.
• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  I guess I don't understand the biting thing, I don't think I've ever been to a club where a guy could have even gotten close enough to do that except maybe once or twice where a girl onstage wrapped her legs around the head of a guy sitting next to the stage, which maybe constitutes assault by the girl. I certainly wouldn't want a girl doing that to me. Same with touching a girl's pussy, I've had the opportunity offered many times in VIP but I'm not interested. I assume that the girl could have a disease (which is probably sometimes true) so I don't ever want to get that close. Obviously some guys don't agree if you believe the TUSCL reviews. I've been going to clubs for 40 years and have never seen any type of physical assault or heard of any happening. But I try to go to fairly clean neighborhood clubs that aren't very raunchy - I don't like raunchy. I think the most serious physical threat to dancers lies outside the club.
• verfolgung

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  21 years ago

  JIMJAZZ: You're right. From what I have read on this thread and the other asking to discuss examples of disrespect, it seems most of the time the customers' complaints tend to be monetary or emotional, while the dancers' complaints' are weighted towards the physical. In some limited cases I may have felt annoyed, cheated, or inconvenienced, but I have never felt assaulted (especially since I behave myself). The dancers just seem to have a lot more to deal with from many more directions - customers, magmt. & other dancers.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  also I don't think it should be required that a dancer tell a customer not to touch her pussy- that should be clearly understood by all of us guys that we shouldn't touch there unless specificaly told we can. Promises of a hot dance shouldn't be considered an ok to finger these gals.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  darn hit the enter.... anyway also on SW I read several of the ladies have been bitten by customers. What the fuck is that? What right do any of us customers have to take a chunk of flesh out of these ladies ????? None, that's what. When you compare the things customers complain about verses what the ladies complain about it makes the customers complaints like look childs play.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  I think the difference is that customers often try to "pet the kitty" even when they have been explicitly told that is not included in a contact dance. I would have problems with a group of people who are constently sexualy assualting me too. The reasons dancers dancers disrespect customers is often because of exactly that- sexual assualt. The reasons I see/hear that customers disrespect dancers often has to do with the dancer regection their advances. And I just don't think regecting someones advances constitutes disrespect.
• FONDL

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  21 years ago

  I agree that some guys won't ever respect a dancer, but then they probably don't respect anyone else either. Lack of respect isn't always the guy's fault - I always try to be respectful but sometimes it's difficult to know what a girl expects. I've read lots of posts from dancers complaining about guys touching more than she wants, one girl even said that if she had a dollar for every guy who tried to touch her where he wasn't supposed to she'd be rich. Well guess what, if I had a dollar for every time a dancer promised a lot of touching then reneged, I'd be rich too. I think that's a major part of some girls' problems, they promise lots of contact to get you to go into the VIP room, than try to change the rules. In all the years I've been going to clubs I only remember one girl telling me in advance that she doesn't like to be touched. If a girl has rules that are more strict than what's typical in her club, she should make that very clear before heading back to the LD area. Otherwise guys are going to feel they've been cheated. And there isn't going to be any respect shown.
• JungleMan

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  21 years ago

  You know I've actually has this conversation with dancers at a club I go to now and then. A friend and I were talking to once dancer about it and the next thing I knew it was me and him and four girls talking about it. I tottaly agree with them. Lets face it. Guys are pricks for the most part. Its also a good point...I think anyway...that naked women and drunk people...don't always work together well. You know what I'm talking about. Anyway, they understood me when I pointed out some guys are just pissed because they've been ripped of in some way. Not because they didn't get to touch or no extras but because what should have been $40 dollars owed turned into $80 magically. You dancers have to admit you have run across a girl or two like that. I also feel like the girls should ask you if you want another dance. Call me an idiot but my first time I didn't know how it worked and after four dances she aksed for $80 plus $20 tip, which is fucked up cause i do tip but i shouldn't be asked for it, the problem was I didn't know how many songs it lasted plus I didn't really pay attention to when they stopped anyway. Now I'm just a bit more careful around girls I'm not familiar with. I can tell you though I've been in many a club and wanted to take out some guy that was just being a total dick.
• token

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  21 years ago

  This is a good thread! Hopefully, I always respect my dancer. That being said; honestly, I will try to gain what the market will allow....meaning, over time, as a mutual trust and respect is established and if it becomes a two-way street I'll enjoy whatever experiences become available. To me, the best thing I ever heard from a dancer was "I've known you for 10 months now and you have never once disrespected me.....that's very unusual and very, very nice; thank you." Super stuff!
• verfolgung

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  21 years ago

  Respect is a two way street. I as a customer always try to be respectful to dancers until I am given a reason to not be. I can certainly understand that it can sometimes take a little time for a dancer to confirm that I am not just another jerk with unrealistic expectations, just as I need a little time to feel out that a dancer is not just trying to hustle me. Over time that mutual respect can turn into a trust where the dancer will know that I will behave accordingly and treat her like a lady, while I can trust that she won't treat me like an ATM.
  
  The other night I was visiting club and a dancer who I have known for a while. As is typical, when I came in about my regular time, she came right over to greet me and sit with me. (She likes sitting with me because I respect the idea that she's there to work. She knows I appreciate the time she spends with me, but that she is free to get up and do what she needs to do.) She sat with me most of the night getting up to perform on stage and occasionally to work the crowd. One time she got up to give a private dance, which at this club is not in a private room but on couches which line the back wall. At one point I noticed her dash from the couch, and get a bouncer to have the guy removed. After a brief stop in the dressing room she came back over to sit with me. She was clearly upset and explained that the guy keept trying to touch her (the club is located in an area with no contact rules)and kept trying to offer her money for extras. Than she let me know that she appreciated how I always treated her with "respect." Later on, after things calmed down, she offered me a private dance. It was absolutely one of the best dances I had ever had at that club and she took the local rules to the limits. Afterwards she gave me a big hug, a kiss on the cheek, and said "thank you for being such a gentleman."
  
  O.K. so the moral of that story was be respectful and you will be treated in kind and appreciated.
• JimJazz

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  21 years ago

  I think that many dancers don't respect customers because a high precentage of customers don't respect the ladies. I read and hear over and over about customers touching in no touch clubs, asking for sex, not paying for dances, asking for discounts and so on. I wouldn't respect clients that acted that way and I don't blame dancers for feeling that way about customers either. In contrast the complaints I hear and read from other customers are things like-dancer wouldn't allow contact or extras, wouldn't accept dates or exchange phone numbers even though she acted interested etc, etc. After seeing this pattern repeat many times over the years I have to say that I think customers by and large are much more disrespectful of dancers than the other way around.