I just turned on the news. Hearing reports others are crossing over our southern borders in addition to just the regular illegal aliens setting up terror cells across the country. Thanks to Ovama and our former Secretary of State Hillary for securing our borders so well.
My condolences if anyone knows someone. I suspect this will be just a beginning of terror attacks on this nation. If you can't even stop little kids from crossing the border, we likely have thousands of terrorists here already.
I thought something like this was coming to the US with all of our open borders. I still think it will get a lot worse. Unfortunately.
You can count on Obama and Hillary to blame guns and to try to disarm law abiding people so that we will have future massacres. That has been the foolishness of our current leaders. Only illegals will have weapons. The police won't be able to get there in time. Just my opinion.
I hate the thought of having metal detectors and armed guards at every club, church, and work place, and theatre. If it gets bad, that will change in my opinion. If that changes, it will be like the slack security before 911 at airports. Might be good employment jobs for security and police if everyone has to hire security. Well until they get replaced by robocops or automatic security. Don't know if anyone is developing anything like that yet. I think many aren't comfortable with computer controlled deadly force.
We're all sitting ducks in a potential shooting gallery if a terrorist decides to attack and that sign that bans guns or a law banning guns won' have any effect on the terrorist or madman.
This is a horrible crime. But it has nothing to do with open borders, The gunman was born in the USA.
^^^ Please try your best not to inject any logic into the discussion. This is TUSCL, after all.
Get a grip @Shark. At least wait until the facts are in.
Sheeesh, I got an A in Logic back at the University. This doesn't compute, buy violence usually doesn't except to the violent ones.
Immigrant or not, this is the sort of event that will get Trump elected.
Learn the facts first shark before launching into an inappropriate leftist bashing. Latest news says that this shitbag shooter was born in the US and it appears to be a gay hate crime.
What a tragedy. I haven't read it yet, but I hope this pathetic excuse of a human being didn't kill himself, so that we can hang him execution style.
This has nothing to do with politics Shark, stop your rambling.
A SWAT team killed him.
Political views aside, we all can see this as an awful event. I know they will politicize the event to death, but I will ignore that noise and in some way hope to help the victims' families in some small way.
Get a grip? Here is proof ISIS was behind the attacks. shoebat.com
ISIS announced plans to attack about 3 days ago. I also read 8000 Americans are on a hit list.
I guess he had no moneys
The shooter called 911 first and pledged allegiance to ISIS before the attack. In case you had a doubt. people.com
The shooter called 911 and and pledged allegiance to ISIS.
Witnesses say he shouted “Allahu Akbar” during the shooting rampage
Yup sounds like a "homophobic Republican" to me.
Leave it to TUSCL to make it about politics!
He was registered democrat, I would support them to if I wanted as many illegals to get here as possible. Notice I said terrorists were crossing the border. They are sleeper cells, waiting to strike. This guy may have not waited until a coordinated attack but maybe he did.
As far as talking politics, in my opinion the whole Obama administration including Hillary as a former Secretary of State are responsible for allowing ISIS to rise to power and not doing much about it. Go ahead and vote for more same ol same ol and everything will likely get worse. My opinion but I guess not many care to hear what I think is the truth. I told someone the other day, tell the truth and people hate the message or hate you. The democrats want to take away guns making us like France. I guess France has no problems with terrorists do they? Too much political correctness. Americans are getting massacred staying politically correct. People with foreign relatives by blood or foreign born should have much tougher requirements to own assault rifles and explosives in my opinion so in that way, I might slightly agree with gun control. Especially if the relatives are from countries labeled as terrorist or with terrorists. It's always about politics in this country if you want to help prevent another tragedy. Otherwise we just accept the status quo. I didn't put much thought into my first posts but since someone wanted to complain about my posts instead of starting their own just saying their condolences and ignore mine, I'm posting again.
I'd like to stop mass shootings as well so please let's be civil.
Why is it called homophobic? Aren't phobias fears?
And yes, radical Islamists do hate homosexuals because it is contrary to Sharia law. Just because it is cosidered a homosexual hate crime doesn't mean it isn't islamic terrorism.
Calling it a hate crime is just a way to divert attention away from the islamic connection.
Why don't we become terrorists? A couple military sites in Iran blow up. We deny everything
Most of us do not want to go die for some cause. I'd rather retire, visit strip clubs, and enjoy some of the money I've been saving all my life in my 401k which I can't touch until I retire in almost 2 decades or quit my job. I may find another job within a few years anyway with all the extra paperwork crap I keep getting asked to do. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some entry level positions in my field with the same pay in other states. I'd like to find a job where you feel more respected instead of being taken for granted and don't feel overworked all the time but I don't know if those jobs are out there in my line of work.
On the bright side, if your work life sucks, I heard in the science channel there is a super volcano in Southern Italy that could blow any day. If we all die tomorrow or 20 years from now due to starvation from ash clouds blocking out the sun for years, at least we can remember the good ol days.
I got so much jewelry on my wrist I got terrorist
^^ You're so bad you make medicine sick
Seems like the media is looking at the shooting from a number a different angles:
(1) Trump is fanning the flames of Islamophobia (so what else is new?) (2) The LGBT community is looking at the shooting as a horrible hate-crime, staged during Pride month. (3) Obama and others are looking at this from the standpoint of gun-control and keeping AR-15s out of the hands of crazy nuts. We've now had about 1000 mass shootings since Sandy Hook. (4) As an example of domestic terrorism. Maybe other Muslim US citizens will be recruited by ISIS in future acts of terrorism. How to you fight something like that?
Nuke em, RandomMember.
I can't even imagine where to start on this ISLAMIC terrorist attack so close to home, so I won't. I'll leave it at, I lean very RIGHT!
@Clubber: I lean left, but I agree with you that this cannot be dismissed as just another mass-shooting. I just don't know how you can fight ISIS recruiting US citizens without turning the country into a police state.
I got the compromise solution. The left wants to ban all guns. The right wants to ban all Muslims. Compromise. Ban guns from all muslims or further compromise, ban guns from those with possible Middle East terrorism ties. Also ban items that could cause explosions. We can't really afford as a nation to put cops and metal detectors in every place of business or school around the country and a gun ban won't work when we can't even stop kids from crossing our southern border. If we need to water down the compromise even more, if you're on a terror watch list and you have ties to middle eastern countries, no guns allowed. Declare it a war on the west Radical Islam versus the Western freedom of ideas etc. and call it a war action to remove weapons from potential enemy combatants.
I could just act presidential and say it was all Bush's fault.
A ban on assault weapons. 1 dude killed 50 people and wounded another 50 something. Now who knows how many people he may have killed with only handguns but it's a lot easier to disarm 1 person in a nightclub with only a handgun vs an AR-15.
RandomMember
Very good analysis of the 4 points.
I watched a lot of the coversge yesterday and your summary is spot on.
The shooter was on the FBI's radar. Ha had been interviewed at least two - maybe 3 times - in the past by the FBI.
I lean right - but I will admit it's a tough call. He was a U.S. citizen and there is the freedom of speech. But you can't throw his ass in jail for making pro-Muslim comments on facebook.
It sure does seem that the smart guys at Microsoft or Google could create an app to flag his gun purchase on the spot if he's already on radar.
It does seem it's really easy for bad guys to legally acquire guns in the US.
Chessmaster, "a ban on assault weapons" was tried by Clinton. It failed miserably. First, because there are NO Assault weapons available for sale in the US - unless you have the ATF tax stamp and permit. Not one single assault weapon has been used in a mass shooting in the USA - NOT ONE. And second, simply because there is no viable means to stop illegal sales of of weapons - and illegal weapons are used in over 95% of all crimes.
THe press continues to lie about "Assault Rifles." The AR 15 designation refers to a registered trademark of Colt Arms who bought a rifle design from ARmalite in 1960. Colt originated the M-16, but that is a very different weapon from the SEMI-automatic sporting rifles sold in the US civilian market.
The modern definition of an Assault rifle, or more accurately, a combat weapon, must include the ability to fire in fully automatic mode. There are no fully automatic rifles available for retail sale in the US. What Hillary and Barrack call "assault weapons" are an entire class of hundreds of different makes and models of modern firearms that "look" dangerous to liberals who are afraid of guns.
The real facts are very different.
1> Early info indicates that the Orlando terrorist used a Remington semi-automatic rifle. Remington does not sell anything with the designation AR (again, AR-15 is a Colt trademark). The weapon used was a semi-automatic rifle.
2> Rifles are NOT "the weapon of choice" for mass murderers! The crazy kid in Connecticut did murder his mother and steal her semi automatic rifle - but he didn't use it in the school. The crazed shooter in the Colorado movie house used a shotgun and pistols even though he was carrying a semi-automatic rifle. Crazy people and terrorists use just about anything to do harm. Explosives are apparently "first choice" for terrorists.
3> Rifles (of all kinds, not just semi-automatic rifles) are used in the murders of fewer than 200 people in the USA every year. Hammers are used to murder people more often than rifles. People are murdered by fists more often than rifles. more people die falling off ladders than die as victims of rifle fire in the USA. After you ban hammers, knives and fists, then we can talk about banning rifles.
4> Some estimates place the number of semi-automatic rifles in private hands in the USA at over 50,000,000. Any attempt to confiscate all of those rifles will likely lead to bloodshed on a massive scale. Far too many people still believe that the second amendment still means what it says.
While it appears that the Orlando terrorist legally bought the rifle he used, that is seldom the case. The San Bernardino Islamic Terrorists used weapons illegally obtained. Some of the murders in Chicago, IL last year were committed with weapons sold by Holder and Obama's "Fast & Furious" scheme, but almost none of the 600 plus murders committed in Chicago every year are done using "legal" weapons. No weapon ban has ever worked as intended. No weapons ban in the USA will be tolerated by the majority of the population.
Not a word from SJGay. Shocking
I'll bet there are over 100+ families that wish there was one AR-15 in that club in the hands of a good guy!
I heard there was an off duty cop, maybe even working there with a gun. He returned fire and caused the gun man to stop shooting everyone and contend with the cop, it wouldn't surprise me if he saved 50 to 100 people. This guy could have been working as a cop with enough time and training. That's a scary thought. Disarm the public, terrorists working as cops or security guards. With some planning a thousand terrorists could take out 100 or more each. That would be worse than 911 and hard to stop if they were all suicidal. People with guns and training are a problem for terrorists.
As sad as this incident was, it just shows how vulnerable we might be against a mere 1000 terrorists doing coordinated attacks across the country when everyone is unarmed and nothing stops a gunman from shooting up a place. If there were 10,000 terrorists acting across the country in one or two nights, the police would be overwhelmed. I'm glad Hillary has plans to bring in hundreds of thousands of people from terrorist countries. I'm sure her planning will make us all safer. Oh, plus she will disarm all the good guys. That's her plan.
His father called him "a good son"
RIP, good citizens of Orlando and those visiting who died tragically from that madman's angst.
How has the muslim "outreach" been working for the last 1000 years or so?
Maybe someone can tell me whether this is a case inspired by ISIS or directed by ISIS? Does it make a difference?
I really don't know the answer.
RandomMember, the publicized info is not yet conclusive. Several Senators claim that the shooter was previously investigated by the FBI for connections to ISIS through someone he contacted who traveled to Syria - but no arrest. Orlando officials have confirmed that the shooter did phone 911 and pledge allegiance to ISIS shortly before shooting. Liberals in D.C. appear to be blaming the Remington rifle instead of the shooter, and in their mind it is the fault of the GOP.
Likely was the rifle. I recall as a young fellow, 3 days after I graduated HS, my rifle took off in a friend's car with me and a couple of other guys. As it unfolded, it loaded itself, horsed around a bit with another loaded rifle and made the other rifle shoot me. Definitely a coordinated attack by rifles!
Damn Clubber, I didn't know you were a Democrat! ;,)
BTW, Welcome back.
dallas,
Thanks for the welcome!
But calling me a demo? Those are fighting words!
I'm not anti-gun but I don't see any reason why the average person should be able to buy an assault rifle. I understand people want to defend themselves but do you really need a high powered assault rifle to feel safe? I'm pretty sure that when the constitution was written that our founding fathers didn't expect people to be able to easily buy high powered guns.
I agree that if you allow people to carry it gives a chance for people to fight back against a mass shooting but it also causes other problems. If you have multiple people that shoot back at the active shooter then it creates a ton of confusion on who the actual active shooter is, especially for police. It also increases the chances of more innocent people getting shot.
Granted there is no way to ensure that bad people can't get ahold of guns, but making it harder for them to buy them certainly doesn't do any harm. And allowing people to carry isn't going to deter any potential crazy person. The majority of these mass shooters either shoot themselves or get shot by cops, so they aren't gonna care if they get shot.
Regardless where you stand on the issue I think everyone agrees hay SOMETHING needs to be done or changed otherwise we are going to continue having these mass shootings.
footballguy,
When the constitution was written, the preferred firearm on this continent fired a lead ball over 3/4" in diameter from a "rifled" bore. On impact, that ball could make a head explode or rip an arm completely off a body. It caused enormous damage even at it's maximum range. In trained hands, the effective range of that weapon was almost a mile (and there are claims of sniper kills in the Carolinas during the 1780s at almost 2 miles). The "long rifle" was state of the art weaponry in its day. The round from a modern "NATO" caliber rifle is actually only 1/3 the diameter, and causes significantly less trauma.
Our founding fathers didn't "expect" the people to buy the most modern firearms available. They KNEW that people ALREADY owned the most powerful infantry weapons made. The 2nd Amendment was written to PREVENT the federal government from ever stopping the people from buying or owning "high powered guns."
People in this country certainly believed, in 1789, that individuals DID need to own modern infantry combat weapons to feel safe. One of the reasons they needed those weapons then (and many people today feel the same way) is that we might need those weapons to confront and stop an overbearing federal government. Another reason was personal defense, but not everyone could afford more than one firearm, so if you could only afford one weapon, most chose the most modern, multipurpose infantry fighting weapon they could buy.
Something you appear to be unaware of: In every "mass shooting" or potential mass shooting, where the killer was confronted by someone with a firearm - the murders stopped! That includes Orlando last Sunday. When an Orlando police officer confronted the sick Islamic Terrorist inside the club, he stopped murdering to hide and exchange fire with the officer. So far, multi-victim shootings have stopped when the shooter commits suicide, when the shooter runs out of ammo, experiences a jammed weapon, or when faced with the first opponent with a firearm. That is true of every incident that has occurred in the country. Not one time, has an innocent been killed by "friendly fire" from civilian defenders (Cops, on the other hand, have killed bystanders on occasion.)
I agree, something should be done. I suggest more people honor their obligations as a citizen and arm themselves (read the Militia Act of 1792 and the modern militia law - you are in the militia and you are obligated to own and become familiar with at least one infantry combat weapon.) I think there should be fewer "gun free" zones where crazed murderers know they will have many defenseless victims. The administration should begin aggressive efforts to destroy ISIS (a few "drone" strikes" and a short battalion in Iraq doesn't count as aggressive.). We should stomp hard on any group who threatens the US or any of its citizens. Better mental health care - including a return of inpatient long term care and detention for the mentally ill. Close our borders and be smarter about who we let in.
There is no easy answer for stopping EVERY crazed, evil murderer. Disarming Americans is the worst possible response to murderous evil.
From national news reports this morning, this is definitely terrorism. The dead shooter is named Omar. Time will tell us the story.