How many TUSCLers are either in a non monogamous relationship or have been in the past?
My wife and I are currently in negotiations to open up, and it's going better than I expected. I've been in reasonably successful open relationships in the past, so I do know some of the pitfalls.
If I were to live again, I would be a Divorce Lawyer.
SJG
The 'delta_t' that it takes for her to get over it is / would be inversely proportional to the amount of money I bring in. It's not really the same thing but it is close. I think honesty and maturity are both required. Plus both partners need to know what they want out of the relationship and out of the arrangement. Then both need to communicate periodically to make sure the arrangement is still beneficial to both. That way it is and always seems 'fair' to both sides.
Some people need rules and boundaries. Is it permissible to one partner to become emotionally attached to a 3rd? Or is that out of line? I think the word there is polyamorous. How much time, money, and attention can or should you give your outside partner. The point there is to stave off jealousy.
But once you are married to her, in any negotiations its almost like she's got a gun to your head.
As I know it is often the women who want to go to swing clubs. They really like it.
It can take time, happen in stages.
But this progression can take years, and it is the women who lead the way.
SJG
Monogamous only.
For years I've been in non- monogamous relationships with several strip clubs worth of dancers.
^ you slut
In my marriage, moving to openness would have been completely impossible.
What they say about Swinging is that it helps improve good marriages, but it cannot save bad ones.
SJG
Props to you if you two can pull it off. Most couples can't do this because too much jealousy comes up.
The women lead when it comes to becoming swingers.
SJG
SJG --> "What they say about Swinging is that it helps improve good marriages, but it cannot save bad ones." --> end quote SJG
^This is very insightful. There are plenty of men in denial about their marriages. It takes a lot of strength and trust to work through this with one's partner.
SJG --> "once you are married to her, in any negotiations its almost like she's got a gun to your head." --> end quote SJG
^True, but it misses the point that even with a gun to one's head, one still have free will. In fact, to exert free will and challenge the spouse in that case (esp. if the spouse is female and non-butch) often works to one's advantage both tactically and strategically. It's the old "put her in her place." Think iron fist, but with a velvet glove. Often she'll become immediately aroused or she'll become aroused once she cools down. But give her a chance and a place to cool down. De-fuse, but don't back down.
It works. It does with my wife and nearly all of my girlfriends. Sometimes, I swear, half of it is that "shit test" crap women, I mean "girls," like to play.
Back to the topic. Stand your ground. don't flinch. Make sure it is "fair" and propose something of value to her in the arrangement to show you that it is also worth her time. Women like it when men don't always just consider mens' needs. Here, the thought does count. What do We gain through this arrangement? Think about it, seriously. And show her that you have the capacity to lead. The husband 'leading' is very old-school Old Testament. and remember the Old Testament God. He allowed a lot of shit that he didn't exactly approve nor condone.
You should appear like a rock. She needs to know that you are NOT going fishing for a woman to run off with. You might frame it as: "Let's take care of business, so we can get back to business." So when you get your strange, or whatever, actually do those other things (start your business, build the deck, etc) that she needs you to do. Ditto for her. Or maybe it's to stave off boredom. Or maybe you're swingers or polyamorous or free love hippies. I'm not you. So I don't know why you are proposing an Open Relationship.
I do agree with SJG, that one needs to start this from a place of a good, solid, strong marriage, first, in order for this to work.
I've been in non monogamous relationships - that worked. But - those relationships were non monogamous from the start. I've never tried to switch a relationship from one to the other. That sounds like a very steep mountain to climb. I hope your negotiations go well!
Trying to get this one chick I know from college to be in an open relationship with her douchebag boyfriend so I can fuck her.
I'm in an open relationship. Just don't tell my wife.
With Swing Clubs, most of the people are married. In my view, the women are trying to play it both ways.
If you tried to make something like a swing club, but for single people, the women would try to pull guys out of it and get married.
SJG
Well, to grossly stereotype, most swingers the wife is bisexual. So I guess they are playing it "both ways".
Even if I'm the only one who takes advantage, I consider mine an open marriage. I would not, of course, object if my wife were to decide to do so as well. For all I know, she might have already.
Blow jobs are allowed
The Clinton Doctrine
Maybe you just used the wrong wording on accident but if you really do mean y'all are negotiating this I'd say just stop. Me and mrs sea have had numerous discussions about pretty much everything pertaining to our sex lifestyle but we've NEVER "negotiated" anything. If you ever have to try and bargain for something you want sexually you're already going down the wrong road in your relationship. Anything the two of you want to do together should have a clear and quick yes or no answer without any need for back and forth negotiating. That will just lead to hurt feelings in the end.
"If you ever have to try and bargain for something you want sexually you're already going down the wrong road in your relationship. "
AMEN!
SJG
What seaboardrr said.
I once had a girlfriend on the East coast of Michigan and one on the West coast of Michigan. I loved them both and I should have married the woman on the West coast. Unfortunately we were in a severe recession at the time and I would have had great difficulty getting a job over there. When I finished my assignment on the West coast, that relationship ended.
@Dominic77 wrote, "...even with a gun to one's head, one still have free will. In fact, to exert free will ..."
Yes of course this is true. But sometimes there is just no way to make things work. Through decades of very hard experience I have become an expert at standing my ground while at the same time being reasonable, compassionate and considerate.
Its the US seal, the eagle with the arrows and the olive branch. And its Osiris with the cozier and flail.
But some women are just completely unreasonable. They just refuse to cooperate or partner. That want to be in the superior position, where they are still free to wage a war of emotional terrorism. They have some reason they need this. And it can never work.
So eventually it has to be handled by outside authorities. Finally I went to state authorities and got them to descend like a ton of lead bricks and take apart a pyramid scam. Still though I held out the olive branch to my spouse. She just never accepted it, so outside intervention had to escalate.
The woman has a serious problem, she is not dealing with her own shit. But I still had to learn to be completely unprovokeable, otherwise today I would be in prison, if not dead.
And yes, I had to keep my side of the street clean, no side women of any sort during those most intense of negative times. And such things always were limited during the entire course of our failed marriage. P4P was just a way to continue to develop myself sexually and a way to try and stay sane.
As for my wife, outside trouble makers are not what start the dissolution of a marriage, but they certainly compound it. In her case it was never sexual infidelity, it was always money infidelity. They pretty much go together.
@Dominic77 also wrote, "Or maybe you're swingers or polyamorous or free love hippies. I'm not you. So I don't know why you are proposing an Open Relationship. "
I don't think I'm really proposing or opposing open relationships, I'm just replying to what our OP has started. But as far as what I think, well some of our married members here do have open relationships, like Mr. and Mrs. Seabordrr, and others. And I listen to them and try to learn. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I would want what they have.
I came of age listening to Stan Dale w11.hai.org
But my life has never looked like his. Dale would decry jr high schoolers "going steady", practicing their form of monogamy. Well for me, that was always how the peer culture was. But then beyond a point I feel that I have broken with him. I don't aspire to have what Dale has had. Again, I feel that most of what he preaches is race and class based.
I think open relationships can take many forms. But most of the people are married and quite well off.
Many such Swing Clubs work. And it tends to be the women who drive this.
Polyamory works for some, like Stan Dale. Over all though, with him and the swingers, I still feel that it is just a minor variation on bourgeois normalcy.
I don't like anything where it is only the man who gets to play. That is unfair. And I don't like anything where the woman has been backed into a corner to make it happen.
I think that many Swinger's and Polyamory people, and just married guys who fuck strippers, are trying to have things both ways and that they are not being honest with themselves or their partners. But I also feel this true of the well of Swing Club women.
Overall, what I will say is that I believe that we do need to experiment and come up with new social forms. And this is exactly what I am trying to do right now. But what I do does not exactly fit into any of the known categories. And this is in fact how new things are developed, buy drawing people from different realms and by putting them together and then doing things which are not completely the same as other things.
Good comments Dominic77 and good thread JamesSD.
SJG
The John Scofield Organic Trio youtube.com
Barbara Dennerlein youtube.com
I’ve never married (by choice).
But I’m a fairly conservative guy by nature and did not fool-around when I was in relationships in the past (nor SC) – I’d normally end them when I wanted to be w/ other people more than I wanted to be w/ her – but since these were not marriages I sorta had that choice (or an easier choice).