Hong Kong Bar quality?
san_jose_guy
money was invented for handing to women, but buying dances is a chump's game
So how do we get SC's of this quality here in the US? Does it just come down to the law? Or is it something about Mexican culture which we lack?
I believe there are ways around the law, or at least to make it impractical to enforce.
As I see it, there are two facets to this, basically the front room and the back room.
The front room should be one of unstructured fraternizing. What can happen should be up to you and the girl, and it should favor make out sessions, and at modest cost.
The back room should not be one where the house is making an excessive amount of money or where you have to be greasing other palms. Also, it should be between the girl and you how long she stays around. Meaning, if she wants to take naps with you, and go to some extent off of the clock, that should be okay. Of course this promotes multiple rounds and anal and all. Needs to be a comfortable hotel like set up, with food and bathing.
Best if it is open 24/7, so that if the girl does some of her sleeping with you, as she has to sleep anyway, then she can still make more money off of other people later on.
Then I would also ask, what room is there still for improvement beyond the HK Bar?
Historically brothels have been places where the women lived, and with their children. So it could be a trade guild owned operation, like the Red Thread in the Netherlands. I think this is past now. Or it could be run by a pagan religious order.
The women could work completely irregular hours and still be close to their children. Of course the compound would have its own schools.
It could have different customer areas, places like the HK Bar, places more like a lounge bar, a pagan temple, and how about a Rue St. Dennis theme park.
Imagine an entire social world where no one pays much attention to the solar clock or the day of the week or the Sabbath. Instead everything runs on the lunar calendar. So instead of being regimented for factory and office labor, children grow up being accustomed to doing things independently and in flex time.
How do we get this Hong Kong Bar quality here, and then how much beyond it can we go?
SJG
PETER, PAUL AND MARY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-qBsgKe…
I believe there are ways around the law, or at least to make it impractical to enforce.
As I see it, there are two facets to this, basically the front room and the back room.
The front room should be one of unstructured fraternizing. What can happen should be up to you and the girl, and it should favor make out sessions, and at modest cost.
The back room should not be one where the house is making an excessive amount of money or where you have to be greasing other palms. Also, it should be between the girl and you how long she stays around. Meaning, if she wants to take naps with you, and go to some extent off of the clock, that should be okay. Of course this promotes multiple rounds and anal and all. Needs to be a comfortable hotel like set up, with food and bathing.
Best if it is open 24/7, so that if the girl does some of her sleeping with you, as she has to sleep anyway, then she can still make more money off of other people later on.
Then I would also ask, what room is there still for improvement beyond the HK Bar?
Historically brothels have been places where the women lived, and with their children. So it could be a trade guild owned operation, like the Red Thread in the Netherlands. I think this is past now. Or it could be run by a pagan religious order.
The women could work completely irregular hours and still be close to their children. Of course the compound would have its own schools.
It could have different customer areas, places like the HK Bar, places more like a lounge bar, a pagan temple, and how about a Rue St. Dennis theme park.
Imagine an entire social world where no one pays much attention to the solar clock or the day of the week or the Sabbath. Instead everything runs on the lunar calendar. So instead of being regimented for factory and office labor, children grow up being accustomed to doing things independently and in flex time.
How do we get this Hong Kong Bar quality here, and then how much beyond it can we go?
SJG
PETER, PAUL AND MARY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-qBsgKe…
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86 comments
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SJG, nice thoughts, but considering how frequently communities have laws that dictate a minimum distance between adult establishments and schools, playgrounds, daycares, and the like, chances are very minimal that a stripper/companion can house her kids in the same building she works in.
Also consider:
1. State law requires condoms, though it makes me laugh to think about how they would enforce this.
2. Their women tend to be too old and too heavy, compared to Hong Kong Bar strippers. They are more like retired porn stars. Big tits yes, but otherwise just too much stuffing.
3. Some people say the rooms are bugged and wreak of cigarette smoke.
4. At some of these places they want you to negotiate the entire sexual choreography up front. So it isn't very natural, not very GFE.
On the positive side, a I know that at least two of them are adding their own strip clubs. So it could get to be like the TJ Hong Kong Bar.
Mostly these places seem really bleak and suggestive of the Wild Wild West.
But I have never been to the Nevada Houses. Anyone who has been, like to comment and compare what it would take to get them to be more like the TJ Hong Kong Bar?
As far as laws, as more people get accustomed to such places, laws can be changed. As far as a residential brothel where the women can have their children with them, TJ should be the first place, followed by Ciudad Juarez.
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
Are the Hong Kong Bar or TJ run by the drug mafias? I don't know.
I just read the intro to a new review of TL in Upland CA. It says the seats are 3' wide. So will the girls sit with you / on you? Will they make out with you?
Jestrite50 -> Front Room DFKing
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
Ceila Cruz, Guantanamera, 1999
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cdq46N2…
But the Hong Kong Bar, being at the top of the review list is well documented. Just one source is TMojo's outstanding Article.
TMojo's Article
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…
Another is Escorts of Mexico, and then there are lots of videos like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
To me it is clear that this is the standard we must aim for. So I am interested in what people who have been there think it would take to get US strip clubs to equal it.
a recent visit by silkypants:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
The problem right now with many of the S.F. clubs is that they are set up as clip joints, or the modern version of a clip joint. That is they sell an open ended expensive fantasy, as opposed to delivery. Though nothing is completely ruled out, by the time you have gotten there you will have already spent so much money that you will feel like you have been played for a chump.
I would like to hear more from JS69 about what specifically he read that made him decide to opt out of the S.F. clubs.
In general, the UHM American clubs seem to have it set up so too much money from VIP visits go to the house. This does skew your relationship with the girl.
Likewise another issue is so many on TUSCL view their dancer as something like a vending machine, offering ejaculation services. So this prevents developing the sort of rapport which is conducive to GFE.
Mexican culture really does not promote this vending machine view, or anything like it. I learned this first hand because we had had an underground table dancing circuit which operated in a number of Mexican bars and I came to have the acquaintance of some most beloved Latina escorts.
So the Hong Kong Bar offers the sort of unstructured fraternization which is the best way to make a GFE session go off well. Then it also offers the sort of back room environment ( The Cascades Hotel ) which is conducive to long encounters.
This has to be our goal. To much time is spent reviewing and legitimating aspects of clubs which get in the way of this, like thug bouncers, freelancing bouncers, and the overall 'extras' approach to FS.
Duke69, excellent kissing thread:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
The working hours and girls' sleeping time are one of the areas of contestation now in brothel operation. See, once you go beyond the basic MSOG escort session, you get into spending more and more time with the girl. So how does this work and how it is it billed?
TMojo stayed in the lowest cost overnight room in the Cascadas. But he explained that the pricier rooms have refrigerators and elaborate spas. They are intened for people who want to stay shacked up with their girl for a longer time interval.
Well, she has to sleep and she has to bathe anyway, so why not. And if she wants to, why not go somewhat off the clock in doing this. She isn't loosing any money because she has to sleep, bathe, and eat anyway, so why not with a nice customer who will be good for more rounds. And likewise, since the place never closes, she can always make more money off of other people.
So she losses no money by going off the clock to eat, sleep, and bathe with a customer. But what she does lose is any chance at a normal life of outside relationships, as she has abandoned the solar calendar, days of the week, and the Abrahamic Sabbath. She is living on the 28 day lunar calendar.
So what you have is a clear counter movement of women who want to do sex work, but they still want to live normal lives and keep normal hours. So again, TMojo has helped clarify this. If you bring a Hong Kong Bar girl up to your room, she might be able to stay around for a while after your session is done. I am sure that the price of your room and your commitment to more money for another session are a big factor here.
But if you bring in a girl from the street, she has to leave when her time is up. Time is always money. This is their principle. So the reason for this is clear, the girls on the street don't want to work in a brothel. They want to be their own bosses, and most of all they want to be able to be with their children who are in school and who are keeping regular hours.
So how do we get the best of both?
TO BE CONTINUED
SJG
The other side of this discussion is how great is TJ really and should it be the model for all strip clubs. Detroit, Miami and various other cities around the country already offer most of what TJ has to offer. Maybe not the shaving cream shows but VIP level service in VIP rooms with hot girls. The real difference with TJ is San Diego is close by and the cost difference for VIP service compared to Detroit and especially high end Miami.
My last comment will be on GFE in TJ, On my last visit I kissed way to many girls and ended up bare backing a stripper in a Jacuzzi. It is common for me to not find a single girl willing to kiss me and that was my first and probably only time I will be offered bareback anything in TJ. On my first visit to TJ the girls were having me disinfect my hands before we started and in my experience condoms are always used for blow jobs and sex.
TJ is not the perfect strip club location and I really don't think there is a perfect place or club.
Thank you for posting on this thread and for sharing your experiences and views with us. From my vantage point it does look a little bit different, and this is largely influenced by other written accounts of Mexico and its culture, as well as the high esteem so many TUSCL reviewers hold for the Hong Kong Bar and Adelita's
While yes, the location of the TJ's Zona Norte was selected to take in US dollars, it was not too far back that every city in Mexico had it's Zona. David Stuart writes about this in his Guyamas Chronicles. He says that they cleaned them out around the 1980's, as kind of a prelude to NAFTA.
In the US, prostitution is seen as a social problem, as something we must try to eradicate, as we do with poverty, gambling, drugs, and other crime. In Mexico it seems to be deeply enshrined as something legitimate. So you see the prostitute celebrated as Adelita of the revolution. I am not aware of anything like this coming from anywhere else in the world.
Chicano Park, San Diego
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co…
In Like Water for Chocolate we see her in the second daughter, Gertrudis. First we hear that she is working in a brothel. Then we hear that that brothel is HQ for the revolutionary army. Then finally Gertrudis returns and we see that she is the commanding general.
I saw the movie when it first came out, about a family which has a ranch near Piedras Negras, and a short distance from San Antonio. I recently persuaded a library to replace a missing copy of it and so I was reading some of it yesterday.
Like Water for Chocolate
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103994/
Remember back when they used to fill up the televisions schedules with old movies? Well this was always one of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0l0d-Is…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4WCsfmG…
http://medias.unifrance.org/medias/255/1…
My view is also shaped by my experiences locally with some beloved Latina Escorts, coming here from the Mexican State of Durango. The way they relate to guys is just different. You don't even have to call it GFE, it is just their default mode of relating to a guy. And always from the beginning to the 10 min worth of kissing outside the apartment under a stair case, they make the guy feel like a king.
You write, "Detroit, Miami and various other cities around the country already offer most of what TJ has to offer."
Is this really true? So many on TUSCL must be giving the Hong Kong Bar and Adelitas extremely good reviews, or they would not be at the top. If you go to one of these American SC's which you mention, how long can you stay with your girl? Is it really an environment conducive to spending time with her. And is it conducive to getting to know her in such a way that both people can really open up. As I can infer from TMojo's article and from how the hotel rooms are designed, if you have some money to spend and if you are getting along well with a girl, you might spend quite a bit of time with her, doing of course additional rounds. This makes it different. It is not a quantitative difference, it is a qualitative difference.
And then when that girl goes, you can just take a nap, remember to change the bed sheets, and then go find the next one. You can go on a binge, and I suspect that the girls are there working in binge mode themselves. That is, they don't keep regular hours or use appointments.
Everyone writes about the shaving cream shows, on the back stage. But it must really be whipped cream, as you are encouraged to lick the girl clean, no?
Maybe it just comes down to how much GFE you are expecting? Do other people feel that Detroit and Miami offer most of what the TJ Hong Kong Bar offers? Because how to close that gap is my main interest in starting this thread.
Very much looking forward to reading your comment on GFE in TJ! There is no such thing as kissing too many pretty girls. Maybe though what is missing is a means of keeping in touch with all of them.
SJG
Justin Timberlake - Rock Your Body
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSVHoHyE…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
I look forward to hearing more from Silkypants, especially about kissing too many girls? and about TJ GFE. Maybe the problem is that he did not spend enough time kissing and fucking each of them? Maybe the problem is that he and most of us are not always in places equal to the Hong Kong Bar? Need to hear more about this.
So how to get the best of both? How do the girls get to have normal lives, but still get to spend long times with what customers come along?
The obvious answer is that they have to be able to live within the brothel, and to be able to have their children with them. Then as their children will not be treated well in normal schools, this organization will need to have its own schools. So you will have an entire world that operates off of the solar clock and the days of the week, and instead runs on a 28 day lunar cycle. You will have children growing up without being subordinated to the clock and for things like factory and office labor.
So in TJ we have this crew of daytime street hookers who go around in School Uniforms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_TPKN2O…
http://vintagesleazepaperbacks.files.wor…
They aren't real school uniforms as the skirts are too short. Someone is making them. Someone is making the special wedge heel shoes too. For a hooker this is a very conservative look, especially with the hair.
I believe it has a political meaning. These women want normal lives. They want to be with their school age children during the evenings. So like TMojo posted, if you bring one of them into the Cascadas, after the time is up, they need to leave. They cannot say over and hang out with you unless they are being paid the full amount.
They are saying that women deserve the right to be financially secure, and that this sort of job is one of the ways they get that. They are straight in their dealings and they live clean, sober, and sane lives. So they want to be respected as a legitimate part of their society.
So how do you get the best of both, the women being able to live normal lives, and also being able to hang around in your hotel room at a reduced cost, because they need to eat, sleep, and bathe anyway, and they will be able to make more money off of more people later anyway because they are in binge mode?
It is by a worker owned brothel where the women can live with their children. It might be a Trade Guild or a Religious Order which owns and runs it.
This is one of the ways to improve beyond what the Hong Kong Bar already offers.
But at this point, talking about the US, I feel that this is secondary.
Silkypants feels that the best SC's in Detroit and Miami already offer most of what the Hong Kong Bar does. I am very skeptical about this, even just from reading what Siklypants has said. Does anyone else think Detroit and Miami SC's offer most of what the TJ Honk Kong Bar does?
about front room DKFing and getting the girl completely off script in SC's
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
Neil Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlHf8rjk…
Body Club / Secrets, Miami
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
According to Papi, it is $25 for each 1/2 hour. Very good.
If you are paying way too much, then in the eyes of your dancer, you are a sucker, a mark.
This is not about Mexico versus the US. The issue is, are you desperate and stupid, or are you just someone who appreciates women and likes to partake. It is good to be appropriately generous, but this is not the same as someone who just gives up money to bouncers and clubs for no reason.
So getting the VIP Room price down is a step on the way to HK Bar quality.
I have also read that this Venom in Tuscon rents out its Cabanas at $15 for 15 min. Very good! This is not yet confirmed by TUSCL members though.
Papi says though that "black girls don't kiss". We need to reconcile this often made statement with what is known about places like Arnie's.
SJG
So at American SC's they impose rules and design the facilities, they say to keep the hookers out. But as much as it does that, it is to keep their own dancers from becoming hookers.
As far as I've ever seen, find a dancer you like and she'll be hot and ready to jump into bed with you, just so long as you aren't treating her like a hooker.
Here we have a thread about dancers living in motels. Mr. Shadowcat opened it right up with his account of staying in the same motel that lots of the dancers do, and of getting lots of take-out without even needing to go inside the SC.
So I want to explore this issue, as it is central to what separates the TJ Hong Kong Bar, consistently rated as number one by TUSCL members, from the US clubs I want to know what it will take to get some of the US clubs to the level of the Hong Kong Bar.
I've never gone along with this 'extras' approach to sex acts taken in US SC's. It is too much the dancer doing something to you, and too much a P4P service script. I like GFE-FS. I am experienced with this in AMPs. Those places are not intended to be GFE, but if you approach the girl in a completely civilian way, often she will just completely open up to you, and this is like heaven.
It should be possible to do this in an SC too. It should be even easier, as they are intended as hang out places, and so you should be able to fraternize with the dancers in an unstructured way, and at only moderate cost. Then when the time is right as you are really getting into it with one of them, you should be able to retreat with her to private space. Who would find anything wrong with that? And I mean really, how could you ever have a law against that?
How long you are likely to be staying with her though can depend on the kind of private space you are retreating too. At this Hong Kong Bar, they've made it almost as good as it can be. So I want to know what it will take to make it like that here in the US.
Discussion of Dancers Living in Motel Rooms:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
Santana, playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Whgn_iE…
Michelle Branch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKLnmMac…
For now I am setting aside the pricing difference as I see that as secondary. So as I see it, the situation should be analyzed in two parts, the front room dynamic and the backroom dynamic.
There have been some recent threads and posts which I feel are directly relevant to this.
silkypants -> Real Time Update Detroit
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32021#com…
This is expecially important because silkypants has written about the TJ Hong Kong Bar, but he also says that the best places in Detroit and Miami offer most of what the Hong Kong Bar offer. I question this. How long has he gotten to stay with his girls? How much unstructured fraternizing has he gotten to do with them before committing to the session? In my opinion this is the biggest determinant of how GFE it will be. So I am hoping silkypants will have more to say and I hope he will follow up with his post about TJ GFE.
GroovnHigh and TireTraveler -> First about an all GFE relationship started in Adelitas, then a great account of front room pussy play followed by retreating to a private room. This is the way it should be done, rather than talking about 'extras' and 'mileage' and letting a girl 'sell you dances'.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32166
Shadowcat -> Opens up a thread about lap dancing by talking about grope sessions. If this could get to DFK w/ FIV, then you've really got what I would consider to be the ideal, if it could be in the front room and before you have spent enough money to be committed to that girl.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32135#com…
Discussion of German FKK versus TJ, and why there could be a quality of experience difference because in TJ things probably go around the clock and so it could be easier and cheaper to spend more time with your girl. She can spend some time sleeping with you because she has to sleep anyway and because she can still be making more money off of other people later, so it doesn't cost her anything.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32117
And here, Shadowcat opens a thread right up. It was about dancers living in motels. Having motel access is a key to getting HK backroom quality. Shadow cat speaks of a place in South Carolina where he was getting takeout without even going to the SC.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32003#com…
To really have an HK Bar like set up though, you need to be able to walk the girl right to your motel room, while she hasn't changed her clothes and she is still in her stripper shoes.
Discussion of Aphrodite's Lingerie Party, in Portland, and why this sort of venue is inherently inferior to an SC, because it would be very hard to get this sort of front room free ftaternizing, and that is the key to GFE.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=31505
How strip clubs fall short of their potential:
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32075#com…
But so long as people are going to walk into strip clubs and ask dancers, "Do you do extras?" Or they ask dancers which other dancer does good extras, or they even ask waitresses, and in general treat them all like prositutes, or even as vending machines, then all of this discussion will remain throwing pearls before swine.
www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=32102
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/
SJG
Jeff Beck Group, Definitely Maybe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXtR0GUc…
Stones, 2014 Tokyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3KJg8qw…
When you've made your choice, you can do short time, about 2 hours, or long time which is all night. You pay the bar fine which is a fee to the bar for taking her away. Usually it's around 1000 baht which is about $30 US these days. The girl will cost as little as 1000 baht for short time and goes up from there depending on how hot she is. Long time averages around 2000 baht, and she'll usually include an early morning BJ and even make you breakfast if your hotel room has a kitchenette. Or you can ask her to leave and she won't mind at all.
There's nothing in the US that even comes close to this, which is why Thailand is a sex tourist destination for old, ugly rich white guys. Even better, if you're white and stick around the bar until closing, some of the girls will come with you for free. Especially if you tell them you're staying in Thailand for a few weeks.
Thank you for posting about this!
Now, I want to set aside price difference issues for now. I want to talk about the style of the service, and the set up which facilitates it. I only want to talk about pricing if it seems unreasonable.
It is widely written that with TJ Street Hookers that you can set up Toda La Noche's. Mostly they are just looking at it as a matter of how much money they would lose in doing it. So they are very ready at the end of their night shift. They know that they can't keep going on indefinitely. And so they know that they will have to sleep somewhere.
I don't plan to be doing it this way with them. 4am is not the right time to be first meeting a street hooker. But if I come to know one of them and she can just call me on the cell phone when she is ready to bed down, then I would like that.
Now this Honk Kong Bar, more than anything it is clear that with the saunas and the little kitchens in the pricer rooms, it is intended for spending more time with your girl. I believe the management wants them to do this and shows recognition for it.
Also, since the Hong Kong Bar gets international sex tourists coming into the airport from other time zones, they operate around the clock. So a Hong Kong girl can nap with you and not be losing money. She has to sleep somewhere sometime, and she can go back to making more money off of more people later.
I believe that if the TJ system can just be expanded, more facilities and lots more girls, then they will become more willing to spend longer times without charging excessive premiums.
Okay, but I still see perhaps two structural issues which could be missing in the Thailand set up.
First, if you want to have a really intimate encounter, a GFE encounter, then it helps if you and the girl can get to know each other some, before committing. Some compatibility needs to be established. Or lets just say this makes it easier.
The best arrangement is if this can happen in the front room of the bar where you meet the girl. You might be giving her sitting tips. Then it is best if physical friendliness can begin, right there.
And I am drawing again on my AMP and civilian experiences here, but the very best is if a makeout session can ensue. If you and the girl can get along well enough to do this, then what will happen soon after in private will be truly mind blowing for both parties.
In these Thailand bars can you get the girl to sit with you and engage in a makeout session right there in the front room?
Second, part of the whole idea of chasing after new women is just the thrill of seeing one you like and then getting her, See - Want - Get.
For me, having them all dolled up is part of this. So I want her dressed and made up exactly as I first spotted her.
And this is just a primal thing, once I have settled on her, I don't want to let her out of my sight, not even out of my grip.
So the best setups allow you to engage in your preliminaries and then just walk her off to private space. So I mean, she will not have to depart your company. She will not have to change her clothes. The HK Bar and some of the other TJ places provide robes for this purpose. There will be no need for motor vehicle transportation. She will not need to drive her own car. She will not even need to take off her stripper shoes.
So we want to be thinking of it this way, private space within stripper shoe range.
The idea is to get that open public voyeurism of the strip club, with the ability to get friendly and start making out, and then with a stripper shoe range place suitable for spending extended periods of time.
So in Thailand, how far away are these hotels you would go to for 2 hours or for overnight? I want it to be within stripper shoe range and where just putting a robe over your girl is sufficient.
Talking about the selection process with AMPs, versus Escorts and AAMPs, and how this effects the GFE level, and showing how the greatest potential is still in SC's.
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
Jeff Beck Group
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5ID15mv0gA&list…
I am not saying real life is like this. SC's are such fun because they are not like mundane real life.
SJG
You don't ever want to risk having the property seized by LE, so the biz operators always have to be separate from the property owner.
So there are lots of run down motels which could be bought. Get one, and then renovate it so it is more like the TJ Cascadas. Have several tier of rooms. The fancier ones will have saunas and kitchens, as these are for the guys who want to spend more time with their girl(s). Then have some rooms for guys to use por un ratito, when they don't want to check in. There can be some sort of place for the girls, but mostly you want them to operate out of the lockers in the dressing room and you want them to do their sleeping and eating with the customers.
Then the SC does not need to be much. You could actually have several and lease them out to different biz operators. All you need to build is just a one level lobby type building. It does not need to be that big. Then add a perimeter sight obscuring fence for the entire properly. So you can have women, wearing little or nothing except stripper shoes and makeup, out and about everywhere.
If you have no alcohol, then that is that many less regulations to comply with and that much less trouble.
If you make it a membership club, like with scanning the drivers licenses, then you are exempt from all public nudity and public sex act laws. Swingers clubs have had trouble with LE going after them for nudity and sex in the hallways. Well, if it is members only, a closed campus, and no alcohol, then LE cannot do that. Making it a membership club just makes it that much harder for LE to get in. Making it a membership club would allow doing the girl on girl whipped cream shows. I believe that these help in raising the GFE level of the place.
So about the only way to bust anyone for the communications between two consenting adults is if one of those two is a cop. Pretty hard to justify to the public putting that much time and energy into it just to bust people one at a time.
So would it work?
I know that where I live, LE would find some way to get it.
Would it resemble places like Club Platinum and Girls of Glitter Gulch in Las Vegas? People say, especially of the latter, that those are girls who don't have cars, and so they live in the hotels, and that for a few they will do pretty much whatever you want. So I imagine that if you wanted to find a girl who would just jump into your car and leave with you, then that would be the place
But everything I have ever read about those places is negative.
Should such a place be in NV, and should it be a licensed brothel? My initial reaction to this is no. I have read that those places are having a very hard time as SC's with back rooms and independent escorts can under price them.
I fear that if we opened this place I am describing, a few SC's adjacent to a motel, that it would draw real shitheads for dancers. It would be mostly the white girls who are like this.
I think this is a cultural difference between Mexico and the US? In Mexico they can have such a fantastic place, and the girls are wonderful.
http://hktijuana.com/gallery.php
But in the US the girls would be screwy, and probably dangerous.
Need to look more at this aspect of it. Need to look at what other examples are operating, and see how they are.
This place in Moriarty NM, the 'Truck Stop With a Stripper Pole", it has a motel on site. I don't know the distance from the SC, and I don't know that the girls do sessions in the motel. I do not know this, it is just speculation. But what it is like out there?
If you tried to do it in a big city, then real estate prices will be much higher.
Are their SC's real close to a motel, within stripper shoe walking distance, like right across a parking lot?
What are these places like. What are the women like? Is this all it would take to equal the TJ HK Bar? My gut says not, that there would still be something missing.
SJG
Some of it will depend on where we build it.
But in the mean time, I think a lot could be accomplished within the existing sorts of clubs. There is much room for improvement.
Start by boycotting clubs which employ thug bouncers, have excessive money going to the house for Cabana Room use, or have excessive rules just to prevent front room fraternizing, i.e. are clip joints.
And then PL customers need to learn to stop treating dancers like prostitutes.
Pretty Viejas
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
SJG
1. Basic strip club. In recognition of Mr. LDK's insights, the main stage should not be too big or too high, but it should be centrally located as that is part of what makes a strip club special. They may or may not allow main stage contact. I would suggest that they allow it, but within some limits, except for when there are very few customers. When there are very few customers, let the girls do whatever they want with guys seated at the stage.
2. Have the seats starting just one row back from the stage be these 3' wide boxes, designed for the girls to be able to sit and makeout with you. Some place, San Gabriel Valley?, has this.
3. LD Booths are not really needed. I suggest use them as they are used on the Hong Kong Bar, the girl will not touch your cock. She wants you to take her to the Cabanas. So I assume they are for even more extensive FOV/FIV makeout sessions. Or on the other hand, let people use the booths however they want, or just skip them and head straight to the Cabanas.
4. Cabana rooms, totally private, large enough, and sensibly priced. $15 for 15 min in Arizona ( unconfirmed ). $25 for 30 min in Florida ( info from highly reliable TUSCL member ).
5. Hire as many girls as possible, so expect anything to go. No real rules. Certainly not any that could limit the girls' aggressions.
6. Membership club? I say yes, to make it that much harder for LE to do anything. Also no alcohol.
7. PL customers must learn to stop treating dancers like prostitutes.
One place I have read about has an "after hours club". So most of the dancers are coming there after just getting off from a regular club. So they will have already made enough money for that night. So I believe that they will probably be very reasonable and often quite willing to just walk out the front door with you.
Don't know what they do with the facility during other hours. Might be that you have to join and then come to after hours shows to even find out. Maybe they rent it out to Swingers Clubs and things like Gay S and M clubs. Or maybe they have some of their regular women there, happy to take care of you.
SJG
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
Reply to Gawker
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…
I've expressed concern over the type of dancers who would be drawn to even an ideal facility in the US.
Now of course, you just do the best you can. But I think the real issue which would make it hard to equal Mexico in the US, especially with the white girls, is political consciousness.
In Mexico women do such stigmatized work for economic reasons. They want financial security regardless of whether or not they are married.
But in the US, it is not purely economic. It is because these girls are the family blacksheep. They have been used, exploited. So they lead destructive lives. They are shitheads. This is my own experience of them, and it is what I hear in innumerable TUSCL posts.
They can't even begin to organize to redress the injustices, because the are steeped in things like Evangelical Christianity, Libertarianism, and the Self-Reliance Ethic.
So to get girls that are more conscious and self aware, you do need to be looking to immigrants, or to specific sub-cultures of pro-sex feminism. To this end San Francisco, even with its crumby strip clubs, still has an advantage over most of the rest of the country.
SJG
This answers a question for me, where would my car be, a parking lot? And where would my base camp be, my closest real address?
What a heaven, a place where you have zero need for a car. And then a base camp in San Diego.
I'm not yet someone who is used to much travel. This will change, but it will be in stages.
Thanks
SJG
Three girls here. The one in red, she has got a big rear end. That really drives me wild. Not that common in the girls selected for photo modeling. Actually not that common among Mexicans if they are not over weight.
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
http://www.sdmts.com/Trolley/Trolley.asp
What a perfect set up!!
SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
You guys know that I am very interested in Mexico and starting with TJ. You guys know I like to scout stuff out with satellite and street view too.
http://www.jackinthebox.com/locations
721 E San Ysidro Blvd
San Ysidro, CA 92173
(619) 428-4679
https://www.google.com/maps/place/721+E+…
So it has this US Port of Entry building. It has this renta car place.
It has this Gateway Inn. I know lots of guys like to stay there, so close to the Zona that you can smell the pussy juice.
I on the other hand want more than just the smell. I love doing multiple rounds of DATY w/ FIV, as it's a capacity multiplier. So as all those rounds and the FS and BJ's and Anal and the Jacuzzi and gettting to know a girl and getting real naturally GFE with her and needing to feed her too take time, I'll be staying on the other side of the border. Not going to spend my money for a motel room to sleep alone in on the US side.
Mexico:
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
So their commuter trains come there, the Blue Line, and then it is also all backed up against freight train tracks. Probably behind the gateway inn is the parking lot?
Jack in the Box
https://www.google.com/maps/place/721+E+…
Probably this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5450985,…
Not sure if the set up is this cool at all of the border crossing places along the whole border.
Okay, so who can identify a TUSCL member's car in there?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/721+E+…
I can identify the make of light aircraft in their tie downs, and the general type of yachts in their berths.
SJG
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air - 12/28/1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNE0CKK7…
SJG
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g2…
SJG
** for any newcomers, just ignore 'san_jose_gay', its just Meat72, a useless good for nothing piece of shit
guau guau de agua prieta sonora otra chica sexy en pasarela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lSln8Bl…
SJG
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/unio…
Sonoyta ( Sonora, on border )
http://www.casadelmilagro.com/sonoyta.ht…
SJG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Pal…
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7DHvehY…
Coahuila has closed down 7 casinos, 248 strip clubs, and 54 beer stands within a year for cartel ties
http://www.hellonearthblog.com/2013/12/c…
probably most of these strip clubs were really just hooker bars. But still, a big loss. But it shows how many of these Mexico tends to have.
SJG
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=sono…
SJG
Most are either here, or linked to by these:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=4…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=4…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
http://petertips.blogspot.com/2013/06/la…
SJG
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=86235
New Harmony
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/Versluis.htm…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Harmon…
Heaven on Earth, Rise and Fall of Socialism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfWOF__A…
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…
Bad TJ Experience
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…
SJG
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=86227
We have some TJ experts on this forum. They usually don't post much though, spending all of their time in GFE.
Enjoy
SJG
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=86169
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=118949
Like a heavenly paradise here on earth.
SJG
Good to help search out joints before hand.
But it fits with my basic ways of thinking extremely well.
Mexico City has got to be the paradise place on earth to live in.
http://doxyspotting.com/?p=117092
SJG
Deja Vu completely screwed up San Francisco. Spectator Magazine was calling that and the Mafia, "Mc Strip Club".
Jim and Artie took the legal risks and went through a felony jury trial. When they started lap dancing it was front room only, no booths or back rooms. And this was the only way they were able to beat the wrap. They could say that what went on was sex education, an audience participation show, but not for sexual gratification. Mostly they were able to get away with this because there were no booths or back rooms, all out in the open.
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Feeders-Fr…
So lap dancing originally meant lap sitting. What else it meant varied widely. But it was a free flowing exchange, just between you and your girl, and all the house was getting was a dancer flat rate.
Now after Jim and Artie showed incredible courage and won this battle, that was when the Mafia came in, followed by Deja Vu.
They went to booths and back rooms. People think these increase the 'mileage', but often this is not the case, they just allow the house to get a bigger cut of the money.
And then they also ruin the choreography of the interaction. So now I restrict my comments to Deja Vu Centerfolds. They prohibit most front room touching, forcing it all into the booths. They are able to convince dancers that this is in their financial interest.
But dancers experienced in wilder and woolier environments, like our underground San Jose Mexican Bar Circuit, know that this is not true. In a Deja Vu style place, the modern version of a clip joint, the girls spend their time trying to verbally sell dances.
Where as in the wilder and woolier places, they just do, they don't ask. Then they try to get some money, which they usually do. So in the underground shows they are metering in money for the entire duration of the 2 or 3 hour show. Then they load into vehicles and go to the next bar. At each one the house turns over a couple of times, because guys spend their money fast.
Now we don't have anything like this in San Jose, but as reported on blackstripclubs.net, what they do at the extreme places is just hop into a guy's lap and start nibbling at his ear and licking his neck. She is in effect defying him to start making out with her. And then they finish what they've started in a back room. Some places they don't even bother with back rooms, they just use couches in darkened corners.
And experienced TUSCL members have affirmed that it works just like this in the extreme mixed race dives too.
And then in TJ's HK Bar, the stories are numerous, and we even have videos, of the front room GFE.
If a girl in a Deja Vu place asks, "Wanna Dance", one is a chump if they agree. Because the quality of the interaction completely depends upon the rapport he is able to establish with her before agreeing to anything.
If he can interact with her in the front room, he can still feed her money, and there should be no house cut. But as there is no agreement to time or money, it is a free flowing interaction.
And this is the advantage of strip clubs over massage parlous or the Nevada houses, free flowing unstructured front room fraternizing. People say Deja Vu screwed up the front room interaction in the Pahrump Chicken Ranch.
If you can get GFE friendly with a girl in the front room, probably feeding her money, then the back room action will be phenomenal and mind blowing for both parties.
And I can vouch first hand that pre-Deja Vu, San Francisco club front room makeout sessions were common.
My fear is that Deja Vu will turn the TJ clubs into something like Deja Vu Centerfolds SF. I know that because of the legal differences that it won't be that extreme, but there will still be a loss as the house tries to add structure in order to squeeze more money out, and probably to be able to recruit tamer girls. Mostly it would come down to imposing rules on the front room, the selection process.
Usually girls get aggressive and friendly in the front room, because they are in competition, because they want to monopolize a guy and then get him into the back room, and sometimes also because they are raking in front room money.
But once a guy agrees to the back room, and the associated time and costs, then the girl is unlikely to improve. Where as if they can build rapport in the front room, often with money changing hands in small increments, then the back room action will be phenomenal.
Mostly, all forcing it into the back room does is get the house a bigger share of the cash, while perhaps drawing in tamer, but younger, girls.
I believe that Deja Vu, once running near all of San Francisco, has retreated back to just Centerfolds. Of this I am pleased, as the other clubs, especially the more divey, should loosen up again and become more GFE. And good GFE starts in the front room, before anything has been agreed to.
HK Bar Report
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…
HK Bar Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
Deja Vu calls itself management consulting. Well, it is a think tank. They have figured out how various types of strip clubs work, and figured out how to squeeze more money out, by selling more fantasy than reality, and figured how to convince the girls that this is better.
TJ is not like this, and I don't want to see it damaged.
Thanks,
SJG
And yes this is the problem, why a large corporation is always going to be more conservative than the single club owners, people who just look the other way. The single club owners don't really have the power to tell the girls what to do. Whatever the girls say, they're going to look at what works for the other girls and do it the same way. But with Deja Vu, there is a real power.
It is not the action in the backroom that gets a club busted, it is the front room selection process. No different from out on the street. The solicitation is where LE gets into it.
And if the front room action is gone, then girls are just selling dances to chumps, And most strip club customers are chumps. They don't understand that it needn't be done the way it is.
So at a typical Deja Vu place, girls will never rule anything out, they will just talk about how expensive it would be. So maybe it sometimes happens, but not very often. So lots of guys are paying lots of money, but dreaming about what they wish they could be affording. And then if someone does pay the extreme price, they are still being played for such a chump that that would poison it.
The single club owners can't set it up like this, they can't coach the girls to that extent, they can't impose that many rules. If they want girls to work there, they just have to look the other way.
So as far as these other non-MBOT and non-Broadway clubs, oh well. People said Deja Vu still ran them. But they don't seem to list anymore on Deja Vu's corporate page.
So at the more extreme US clubs in other states, if one walks in and lets their eyes adjust to the dark, what they see will make them feel like it is a brothel. Even though no law is being broken, it will still feel that way and draw negative LE attention.
Problem in San Francisco, why it has gotten so conservative, is concentrated management power in Deja Vu, and then just the world famous names and landmark real estate. There are probably barriers which make it hard for people to open new clubs. So selling an expensive open ended fantasy is more profitable than quality delivery. And then Deja Vu can stay behind the curve, not being the Pink Diamonds, and have very little risk, even though the girls will still never refuse anything, just quote and insane price to someone who asks.
And so Deja Vu makes money, not because there necessarily are real limits, but who knows, they make money by selling a very expensive fantasy. What this amounts to is selling sexual frustration. They are reinforcing all that is wrong and unfair in this world. And you see that in the attitudes and ideas of most of the TUSCL posters.
If these SF clubs were not run by Deja Vu, the single club owners would probably be willing to take more risks. Maybe nothing more would happen, nothing that doesn't happen in Deja Vu clubs, but the way it would be done would be different. Front room GFE, which makes the back room action mind blowing.
So now you know why I don't like Deja Vu.
Jim and Artie defied the authorities openly. Once for porno movies and once for MBOT, they went through felony jury trials.
But the people who came in and took over were the Mafia and Deja Vu.
They are more conservative. Jim and Artie made money, but they also loved taunting the authorities.
Deja Vu and the Mafia make even more money, but they are more conservative. More rules placed upon the girls. Guys go to the clubs, but these guys are chumps.
In places further to the East, I guess LE is looser. So there is more front room GFE, and then what happens in the back room is radically better.
Girls at Deja Vu Centerfolds, at least they had been tipping out bouncers in order to do more. I know this goes on other places in the country and in places not owned by Deja Vu. But it is still a chicken shit approach. Jim and Artie were straight up about what went on. They fired girls for FS, but anything else was okay.
It was after Terrance Halinan came in as DA that clubs went to booths and backrooms, because they knew he would leave them alone. But then with Deja Vu, it was all forced into the booths and back rooms. Not only does this make it more expensive, and make for a larger house cut, but it also destroys the GFE. And if a girl is playing you for a chump, then it won't ever go that well with her because she does not respect you.
And at least as I know, the girls do not like the bouncers at Centerfolds. I wouldn't either. I told a girl that since I see now how this works, I don't want to come back. So she told me her new stage name, as she would be starting at MBOT soon, and lots more could go on there. And then another one, real nice Latina, and to my eyes a straight up working girl, gave me her phone number.
What it comes down to is just trying to regulate the girls, to in effect take advantage of the stupidity of most customers.
The way Larry Flynt explained it in his book was that in the old clip joints, you could have a drink with a girl in the front room, or for a huge extra fee you could have a drink with her in the VIP room. But even though there was this high fee, nothing else will happen in the VIP room.
Well, Deja Vu, taking front room lap sitting and forcing the action into booths and back rooms, and then over regulating the girls, is the new version of a clip joint. It isn't like nothing happens, but it is just over priced, too much money for the house, and the quality is much lower because of the lost front room fraternizing. So as I see it, Deja Vu runs the modern version of clip joints. And I don't want there to be some adaptation of this for TJ.
And I did take special notice when I first saw Chicken Ranch on the Deja Vu web site, first venture into something overtly a brothel.
Chicken Ranch could be just as good as TJ HK Bar, though pricier. But people say it is rotten.
About HK Bar, it sounds like it is designed to be whatever a guy wants it to be, the variable mostly being how much time he wants to spend with a girl. So they have 1st floor booths, and though not intended this way, they get used for quickie FS. Then there is the upstairs VIP room. Probably anything goes. Then there are the private VIP rooms, where anything goes. I think good if you were then going to take a girl for food, before continuing with her. And then the short time rooms and the long time rooms. And then since it is open 24/7, a girl can actually spend time eating and sleeping with a customer and not feel that she has to be getting lots of money for that. After all, she has to eat and sleep sometime. And after she is done, as the place never closes, there will always be more customers to service. So she hasn't lost any opportunities.
I feel that that kind of flexibility is important. And I would not be surprised if girls go for two weeks plus at a time, never going outside and losing track of time. It seems to be designed to be a heavenly paradise on earth.
Now as I know brothels are technically illegal in Mexico, even in TJ's Zona. Maybe the exception is in the walled Nuevo Laredo Boy's Town.
But so this is why the hotels for HK and Tropical are technically separate businesses. The clubs are technically what is known as Hooker Bars, but not brothels. No one is interested in trying to enforce anything in that sort of situation.
And then this is why massage parlors like Mermaids are more discrete, as technically they are illegal.
So I am imagining now that Deja Vu, setting up something which seems undeniably a brothel, and is even outside the Zona, must have gotten a great deal of special permission.
SJG
When Deja Vu came in, it was Terrance Halinan and Willey Brown. There is no law against GFE. There certainly isn't out on the sidewalk in front of the club.
In Santa Clara County they would try to say that it is illegal, but that's just how they are. They've never convinced a jury of this.
Front room GFE was never universal, but pre-Deja Vu I can testify that it was not uncommon, and it was exquisite. Some of it really blew my mind, that a girl could be that open with a total stranger. In such a case, the money was insignificant. Such a girl should be publicly funded. It made me want to be living a more bohemian life, like she was, not like what my life had turned into.
Strip Clubs are supposed to be audience participation cabaret shows. And in fact, this was how Jim and Artie were able to beat Diane Feinstein's wrap against them, all front room. Jim had been influenced by an audience participation DATY show, in Amsterdam. And so at MBOT he set up a DATY oriented facility. But first he installed glass panes. After the cops busted them, then the next day with the case pending, he removed the glass panes.
Those guys earned their heroic status with that and things like posting Diane Feinstein's home phone number on their theatre marque when they had to close the club.
https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Feeders-Fr…
So no unreasonable prohibitions against from room touching. Jim and Artie were arrested and booked over 100 times each. They wanted to make money, but they also wanted to taunt the authorities. In San Francisco it would probably have to be BJ's or FS in the front room before the police would do anything. They don't want to send in cops with infra red cameras again, like they did against Jim and Artie. So low lights, and just let it happen.
Then, about booths. These destroy the audience participation cabaret show. They make it look like sex acts are being sold.
We know the real reason, to get the house a bigger cut, and to make it easier for the girls. The original lap dancing meant lap sitting. The first group of girls decided that $1 a minute would be about right. Jim and Artie just had movie theater style seating, with the arms on the chairs. So that was about all they could do. But a girl on your lap is a very tasty treat. A very civilian type of interaction.
Going to the booths with the girl standing over the guy, and doing some sort of a service is actually more legally dicey than lots of other things, like front room GFE. But we know that it makes it easier for the girl, because she is the one leading it, the one in control, and they have to deal with the general public.
Okay, but lap sitting is still better. In San Francisco no one is going to get busted over that.
The way the club can increase its money, if they are loosing booth money, is just by adding more girls. Each girl has to pay a flat access fee. This means that some of them really have to push hard. So it makes it better for customers. Owner should just look the other way.
And in San Francisco it is untenable for LE to only prosecute dancers. So in practice, very hard for LE to do anything about all of this, without becoming extremely complicit. And that makes the cops look ridiculous.
Front room lap sitting, what ever the girls want to do, which is probably GFE, and then booths and backrooms as needed. House makes up for lost money by adding more girls.
Just no reason to go beyond just the barest minimum of rules on the girls.
I know all of this by knowing some of the talent agents who ran the underground shows in San Jose's Mexican Bars. Very free flowing. Girls just go from one guy to another. Party tape with no gaps in it, as they don't measure anything by songs.
Core group I refer to as Beloved Latina Escorts, they really make guys feel wonderful.
In some clubs they were doing front room FS , or mini-van in back FS. Of course this got them busted, but not until San Mateo County Sheriffs and been fully taking part.
But so long as you kept it short of FS and BJ in the front room, you should have no legal problem, and very hard for a cop to get into a VIP room without being fully complicit. Letting things flow easily in the front room radically improves the back room quality. It also lets the girls just make it happen. On TUSCL there have been lots of posts about girls who initiate with the stripper handshake, and just never let go until culmination has been achieved in the back room. They've take that handshake to its logical culmination.
Jim and Artie liked taunting the authorities, comparing themselves to Union Square and saying that they were making the Niemen Markus of Sex, and the Copenhagen of North America.
In most places, people just bend the laws but keep it discrete, as all they want is money.
2. Rest of US Strip Clubs
These places all have their own histories. Mostly more conservative, but also with looser LE.
So if Deja Vu is to be a brand name, then it will end up being the most conservative, the show clubs. But they are not cheap, as they sell an expensive fantasy, but degraded actual delivery. Not good in my view. In the best of the dives, the owners just see nothing. The girls run it, and like I said, jumping on to a guys lap and then nibbling at his ear and licking his neck, until he starts making out with her. Then finish in the back room, or a darkened corner.
And of course this started in Texas with the Chair Forts, piles of stuff dancers set up for some sort of privacy for FS. Leaves the owner much more plausible deniability, though no cut.
Competitive business. Clubs are beyond a point disposable.
In many parts of the country they seem to have higher crime rates anyway, so they don't worry about this sort of stuff.
Deja Vu could be management consultants, but not actually a brand name advertised. This way Deja Vu really has nothing to lose when a club goes down. For myself, in other parts of the country, the Deja Vu club would be the first one I would cross off of my list.
And same for San Francisco.
Membership Clubs, these get the club out of any public lewdness or sex acts laws, just like Swinger's Clubs. It does not suspend the penal code, but it does make the relevant laws impractical to enforce. Deja Vu brand name could be useful there, in my view.
These clubs can't serve alcohol, but they can allow BYOB, as most do.
For myself, no alcohol would be an quality improvement. House can get it's money by raising cover charge and dancer access fees.
I think these membership strip clubs, modeled after swinger's clubs, are a growth segment.
3. Pahrump Chicken Ranch
I know Nevada has lots of strange laws about these places, but still, what everyone says is that Chicken Ranch and most of the rest are horrible. And no one likes Dennis Hoff.
So make it like HK Bar. Free form unstructured fraternizing, strip club like. Girls can jump on to laps, try to get tips, and let GFE ensue.
For myself, I have never offered a girl money for sex or sex acts. Nothing happens until she is clearly more than ready for it. Money is just a show of respect. Usually she asks, but even when they don't, they still get it.
So at Chicken Ranch, girls who want to play, will let front room GFE ensue, and they will loosen up. Costs will be more reasonable because the girl is so opened up, and quality radically higher.
4. Tijuana
Sounds like this new Deja Vu place is what in Mexico is called a House of Dates, because it has session rooms. Technically this is considered a brothel and hence illegal, even in TJ's Zona. So it looks like this new very fancy place has to be seen as something akin to a State Operated Enterprise.
Being so conspicuous, and with such a large investment, and hence so dependent upon the government, is a liability.
Oh well, you say you aren't going to screw it up, but almost any restrictions placed on the women would be a negative.
Where I have seen things be the most harmonious at Latino semi-underground strip clubs is where they just let the girls come and go as they please, no exit fees, not even any schedules, able to do whatever they want. Running 24-7 would be best. That way you get the people who come into the airport from other time zones.
So you make up for the lost drink pushing money when girls exit, just by always having a huge surplus of girls. Girls know that the demand level is, and they also know about how many girls there are. So they work it out.
So some girls would be asleep with customers at outside hotels, others would be in your session rooms, and others would be out and about. So long as you have enough on the roster, there should be no problem. Most of the girls who do this sort of work, what they really want is to be their own bosses. They want to decide who they session with and who they don't. They want the freedom to be real aggressive in making it happen. They want to be able to come and go as they please and to make their own hours.
And so combination of House of Dates and Hooker Bar, with the outside hotels and restaurants, and I guess a guy passing out robes, and girls can come and go as they please and do what they want, there should be no problem. Deja Vu, just by adding the new high quality floor space will be a plus. Just so long as you don't try to regulate or control the girls in scheduling or anything else.
Something must be making it hard to open new clubs in San Francisco, otherwise they would be there, and especially given how restrictive the South Bay Clubs are, and also Deja Vu's conservatizing influence.
So I don't know if it is the City, or La Cosa Nostra, or what. Some is the state law separating alcohol and nudity. I prefer no alcohol, but I also notice that the places with lots of clubs per capita do not have such a rule.
Strip clubs potentially have a huge advantage over AMP's, Escorts, and Lingerie Modeling, because of the chance of unstructured moderate cost free form fraternizing. It isn't just a matter of 'test driving' girls, it is a matter of letting them get softened up to the point where they really do want to engage, and to please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea3_CMDa…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOrtMIK…
SJG
Montrose, Live KSAN 1972
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzC835bh…
And then the way to get around the law is just to not let it be enforceable. Either membership clubs, or just privacy in hotel rooms.
In Mexico, even in TJ's Zona, brothels are technically illegal.
This is why at the HK Bar, the hotel is technically a separate business. And this is why that Massage place Mermaids does not list an address. They do consider that a brothel.
So the HK Bar is really more what they call a 'hooker bar', as the girl takes you some place else.
Now of DV TJ, that sound more like a 'House of Dates', a kind of brothel, as it does have on site session rooms, and it is also outside the Zona. So especially given how much money they've put into it, I think it has to be considered something very close to a State Operated Enterprise.
Here in the US these types of laws would be impossible to enforce if LE was made to adhere to probable cause and due process. It is only because of public attitudes that LE gets to do what it does, like the recent matters in South Carolina.
Thanks for the info justme62. We don't get anywhere near enough detailed Mexico info.
This TJ Street Video is good:
Real TJ Street Girls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdOa4zel…
Heart- Little Queen Live at Cal Jam 2 , at all their early performances they have these loud speaker arrays with the short horns. Their own people must have made those.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QK3E7-a…
Heart - Cook With Fire, live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov1glkGW…
Lots of little counter melody riffs in this. It isn't really just harmony.
I really only ever liked their early stuff, the original line up, not the more music video oriented stuff and the later crew of the 80's.
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
And what's more, he clearly understands that this is the key, more so than changing laws, to getting HK Bar quality in US clubs.
SJG
and again, thank to founder for reopening our old threads!
Grace Potter and Joe Satriani cover Cortez the Killer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paeNnR33…
Now Countryman sees it too, that the problems come from the attitudes of the US strip club goer.
SJG
I thought about making a troll account to do the same thing to you but I figured you wouldn't be so gullible as to believe it this easily.
He may be posting a few things tongue in cheek, but overall he is quite likeable. And he has made it clear that in his state they have clubs where front room makeout sessions are common. He just sees the dancers in those clubs as sub-par.
I have heard things like this about Louisville, but not so about Lexington. Have to wait and see.
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
SJG
The issue is not getting shunted into booths and back rooms by a girl who has not opened up to you. Buying dances is a chump's game, and what you get is counterfeit.
But there is nothing wrong with giving your girl money.
So talk, get to know her, give her money, and get that front room makeout session going. Then when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room.
Then take her home with you and continue to see her regularly.
And it will help if you select and approach the girl yourself. That will make her more accepting that you are sincere in wanting to escalate and to keep seeing her regularly.
We had a club where the back room mileage has exploded, as the club was slated for closure and building demolition.
So one girl was giving everyone who tipped her $1 on stage, very good DFKing. And she was not looks challenged at all. I'm sure more front room DFKing could be had with her, but what she was really trying to get were back room FS gigs.
When girls are doing FS, then the likely hood of preliminary DFKing is much higher.
People have written about this Skin Cabaret in Scottsdale AZ, always seems to be making out with a customer in the front room. Though it might just be the doings of their one day shift girl, and some do not like her looks.
But at our local very strict clubs, there is still once in a great while front room DFKing when a girl is looking for immediate OTC. Of the ones I have seen, they were very good looking, bombshell girls who would turn heads any time they let their hair down in public. And their DFKing was really good.
So Countryman, you talk about front room makeout sessions at strip clubs in your state, but the women not looking good. Is this Louisville. Other's have said similar things.
Is it better in Lexington?
SJG
Marx's Theory Of Economic Crisis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RG…
As far as what goes on in US clubs, guys see what they want to see. Girls may try to steer it a certain way, but this does not mean it always has to go that way. Glad to hear that Lexington has better looking girls.
Most of the time if there is not a real rule, then front room makeout sessions are going to be possible. Generosity, dressing nice, sincerity, these all help.
Girls in S.F. have recited to me the "I don't kiss speech", and then explained that it is "the women's rule". Soon they were demonstrably reversing themselves.
But the real issue beyond that is just being ready to bed girls outside.
SJG
SJG
Vietnam Freelancers And Hostess Ladies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuHCvGqK…
Come visit Zona Norte / Tijuana México Red Light Districts (part 1), much loved, believed to be showing the inside of that Mermaids Message Place
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj0yKwFl…
King Crimson Red
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_pDwv3t…
Front room tentacle makeout sessions is where it's at.
They said that in Mexico if a guy likes a stripper the first thing he does is kiss her.
Now in a general audience book they might not have want to go too far. I can see that as being the communication to her that he is taking her back into the session room.
As explained in David Stuart's Guyams Chronicles, Mexicans see Americans as extreme loners. Though Stuart does not say this, he means that they see Americans as psychopaths, like the people in Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers.
Stuart was there as a young man in 1970. Then he returned to UNM and completed his studies, became chair of the anthropology dept, and then Dean.
But in 1970 he became god father to a baby girl. And he later was able to arrange for her to attend UNM Albuquerque.
She said, with the dry climate why are the lawns so big? Why do all the cars on the highways just contain one person? And why are the only people she sees on foot homeless? Don't these people have families?
SJG
Robin Trower - Too Rolling Stoned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT21jl9A…
As it looks to me, it is meant to give everyone what they want. And the biggest variable is how much time a guy wants to spend with a girl.
But as great as that looks, I still think that for regular visitors better results could be obtained with the lesser bars, street girls, and massage girls.
HK Bar seems to be set up to promote everything, including great TLN.
1. Big girl selection, dressed and painted up to please.
2. Conducive to front room makeout sessions
3. Dance booths for those couples that just need a little bit of help getting that makeout session going.
4. Restaurant and room service food, Jacuzzi Rooms, great for entertaining a girl 'till dawn.
And of course girl taken right to hotel, no motor vehicle or need to change clothes or stripper shoes. Big showers, sounds ideal for standing up anal, before giving her the final cleanup and undress, and then into the Jacuzzi, as one TUSCL member has demonstrated.
So while there is a little bit of room for improvement, they still have done most of it.
Now how about the lesser bars? Same in many aspects. They say even more front room tongue at BT and LC. And at Playboy Bar girls approach from behind when you are seated, before they use both hands to pull you head back and start ramming their tongue into your mouth. After that is is "arriba o ficha?" At Chicago Club guys write about girls who come out and jump onto their lap and without any panties under their skirts. They get a DFK w/ FIV session going.
So these bars have much in their favor. Girls a bit older maybe, easier to get along with, more likely to live in TJ. So with repeated visits, no limits. But is it so good that you would want to check into an overnight room before you have the girl?
Then El Fracaso follows the TJ prohibition on indoor smoking. Anyone been there? Good things written about it and the girls. But still, do you check into hotel before you have girl?
Then of the street, these actually look to be the cleaner living girls! But not conducive to preliminary makeout sessions, unless you take the girl somewhere else, like maybe LC? Then, are the day time girls free to do TLN, or do they need to leave at some set time to be home? Still, cleaner girls is better.
Then like that Mermaids, video of that , girls impeccably painted up and dressed just right for being undressed and fucked. Ideal! But still no GFE auditions, harder to get to TLN?
So HK Bar looks best for first timers, but after that, girls from other venues better. These latter just take a few visits until you are doing regular TLNs.
DV might be like this too. Session rooms, I think front room makeout sessions. But then to set up TLN at some later date? I think good if you are there too early for TLN. Just do a basic session and then have first TLN with that girl at a later date.
This is how it looks to me from long distance. HK bar best for first visits, but after the other venues have advantages for doing regular TLN's with a girl.
TLN is just like when hairless apes lived in caves. Bear skin on the floor, and just keep pumping loads into her.
SJG
Gemeinschaft AND Gesellschaft
Models of Society: Durkheim, Tonnies and Lenski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9qEwDTp…
TJ
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7290/96201…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3680/9633…
https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6104/6852…
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9624…
Oakland CA
https://thepioneeronline.com/wp-content/…
Eric Clapton Layla live at Hyde park 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EMGkkXJ…
Eric Clapton - Tearing Us Apart [Live In Hyde Park 1996]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skoA7qBd…
Robin Trower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoMb0gN…
My contention has always been that it is not just our restrictive laws, but rather it is attitudes that people bring in to the clubs, the attitude of Buying Dances, which screws it all up.
Now I feel that with the shift to these private parties, this is starting to pan out.
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7710…
SJG
Mexican Catholicism focuses more on the sins of greed and pride. Christianity in the US focuses more on sexual "sins".
But in TJ guys are selecting their girl, softening them up with a front room makeout session, and then continuing to an over nighter.
In the US guys are talking about Extras and Buying Dances.
SJG
Awesome he just bumped a thread originally older than nicespice twice in the past 3 years.
SJG said "But in TJ guys are selecting their girl, softening them up with a front room makeout session, and then continuing to an over nighter."
No, they're not. If you read any of the detailed HK reviews here, they're exactly *not* doing that. The HK reviews (and reviewers) focus on fucking as many girls as possible at bargain-basement rates. And the bar girls aren't waking up with anyone, because they make money via volume. Meaning, they're fucking as many guys as possible. There's no "softening up" via makeout sessions or anything else, because they're high-volume sex workers in an actual brothel.
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARgc5Um…
SJG
If you see this happening live, other people will start kissing them. The original two, but any other they want as well.
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=1712
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOrtMIK…
See - Want - Get, and with a TLN capability.
SJG
And then in San Francisco, especially in the no alcohol clubs I had experienced enough of it, and I knew there was no legal basis for any prohibition. I mean you could be out on the sidewalk kissing pretty girls all day long. So long as you don't block the sidewalk or driveways, there is nothing the law could do about it.
And then in our underground circuit, what rules there are is completely arbitrary. Open tongue kissing with them usually just gets you pussy in the face. The girls want to line up all the OTC they can.
So when I first joined TUSCL, I did extensive searching on Stripper Web, using Google Advanced Search carefully.
On Stripper Web they are livid about the kissing. They are livid, because they are seeing it. So there must be something for them to see.
They see kissing in the dance booths. They see kissing at stage side. And they see girls who come around and give thank you DFKing to anyone who gave her $1 in her set. And so probably this often leads to extensive front room makeout sessions.
Now these Stripper Web girls are livid. But they aren't the ones who are doing it.
At Club-Ante, when it was getting close to closure, the back room mileage skyrocketed, and girls were totally disarming guys by giving stage side DFKing when they were not expecting that.
And of course, a girl always likes it when a guy asserts himself to make something happen with her. So kissing her has a big effect, and all the more if it is done in front of other people.
And then these stripper web girls are livid, but they also talk about escorting. There they all understand that kissing is standard.
And then girls talk about wearing flavored lip gloss for all the kissing they do at the strip club. They like to surprise guys and totally disarm them.
https://www.amazon.com/Just-My-Style-Glo…
SJG
Martinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9md6qiL…
https://tuscl.net/review.php?id=387233
And the way we can get this is with the membership club / private party model!
SJG