I went there a few weeks ago after having been absent from it for a few months and I noticed they have what looks like a wheelchair lift attached to the stage and jutting out into the seats. I'm never seen dancer in a wheelchair but that's the only thing I can think it's for, some kind of ADA requirement. Anyone have a clue?
I sure as hell hope it's not for a dancer in a wheelchair....not something I want to see. Just like most dancers wouldn't want to see me dancing in a g-string on stage.
The only other thought I had beyond Geek's (which seems most likely to me...) is if they have a feature coming who has some fancy props as part of her performance that get lifted onto the stage. Maybe she's dressed as some cool space chick with lasers and shit and flashing lights and she steps on the lift amid laser beams and magically levitates onto the stage.
But I'm guessing Geek's idea is probably more likely.
Occurious, you answered your own question. It's an ADA requirement. The theory behind the requirement is that although it's unlikely a performer would need it, there could be janitors, maintenance workers, building inspectors, and other people that would need to access the stage. In San Bernardino, the club "Flesh" at least used to have a wheel chair ramp designed into its stage.
Two other examples, both ADA requirements:
1. The use of Braille at a drive-up ATM.
2. Here in Seattle, I took a tour of Safeco Field recently. While the tour was in the area of the home and visiting clubhouses, the umpires room is in that area, and the tour guide made sure we noticed the that the word "Umpires" was also in Braille on the sign.
Club Goer, really? ADA requirements have been around forever...is this something new for strip clubs? Seems ludicrous...hell the stage is only like 3 for 4 feet high. Although this isnt nearly as insane as cities having to make ramps in every freakin sidewalk curb in the city...
I was there on Saturday and noticed that huge ugly contraption for the first time. A big purple box. It partially blocks access at the far end of the stage in front of the topless LD area. But if it makes DVCOI compliant then it's gotta be there I guess. I wonder if anyone will ever use it.
Jerikson, ADA was enacted in 1990, and within a couple of years, physical changes in public access became apparent. How some jurisdictions enforce ADA requirements may be different from others. If you're really curious, you could call some of your local cities' building and safety departments to ask the question.
Does anyone else think that the US has swung its pendulum WAY too far to the "acommodating minorities" side of things, to where we're doing shit that's fucking insane? Fine, acommodate disabled folks, but geez lets be somewhat reasonable.
Come on, every fucking sidewalk curb in the city is broken up and a new ramp is installed so some hypothetical disabled person in a wheelchair who might possibly live in the neighborhood at some point on the next 200 years can go down the street without having to use somebody's driveway ramp?
And now this? A disabled lift for a strip club stage so some hypothetical maintenance worker, who wouldn't be fucking hired anyway since he is unable to perform the job, can hypothetically get up on the stage?
ADA does not make distinction by whether it's a strip club or regular bar or dinner theater: AIUI, the law says that if a business is a public accommodation and greater than X square footage, or Y number of staff, or Z volume of patrons, then it has to provide accessibility (just like the law about restrooms). In some establishments it's just easier to conceal or merge the adaptation into the general architecture.
To be fair, Braille keys and instructions in a drive-through ATM are there because at the factory that makes ATM keys and faceplates, once they set up production of Braille-equipped ones for regular ATMs, they're not going to keep open two whole separate assembly lines in order to also produce Braille-LESS ones; that would be inefficient business management.
And cutting in the wheelchair ramps on the sidewalk harms nobody, plus I can testify it's a convenience if you're carrying boxes in a handtruck or dragging a rolling suitcase 3 blocks to Penn Station. If I ever through accident or illness end up wheelchair bound I damn well would appreciate NOT being relegated to the status of "housebound invalid" because of a 6 inch curb, when the adaptation is trivial.
"And cutting in the wheelchair ramps on the sidewalk harms nobody,"
It sure as hell does....the public that is paying for it. Yeah, it's a convenience, but I could give you a list a mile long of "nice to have" conveniences that don't warrant massive expenditures.
Cheo, since you're clearly knowledgeable on the subject, how would a strip club stage be something that fits under the ADA requirements? Is it basically anywhere a human travels must be accessible? Just seems so strange...
@Jerikson-You sound pretty cold and heartless, attacking disabled and handicapped people. Are the wheelchair ramps on sidewalks that big of an inconvenience? I don't mind paying my taxes to help out those less fortunate than me. You and I may someday both need those handicapped perks that you deride. If you wanna complain about massive expenditures, take it to the military/industrial complex, not the deaf, dumb, blind, and crippled.
Slic, using your logic any expenditure towards disabled people is reasonable, and if you dont agree your heartless. I dont think so. Should disabled people receive a government check every week for $10,000? Thats pretty heartless if you dont think so.
My only point is we should be reasonable. ADA lifts for strip clubs seems fucking un reasonable. As do ramps on every curb of every sidewalk corner in the city, unless maybe it can be shown that maybe there are some disabled people in that part of the city that might actually USE them.
@jerkinson40: "Cheo, since you're clearly knowledgeable on the subject, how would a strip club stage be something that fits under the ADA requirements? Is it basically anywhere a human travels must be accessible? Just seems so strange..."
Firstly, ADA-based regulations apply to any "public accommodation" (food and beverage businesses; hotels; entertainment, sport and event venues; retail shops, etc.); in full if built or remodelled after passage, as best you can and resources allow if not. If you can show a certain adaptation is just structurally impracticable, it's exempted (e.g. historic structures). Accommodation has to be provided in all regularly occupied areas but that does not necessarily mean ALL of the area must be equally accessible. A stage, platform or dais in the main room of a venue IS usually covered. There are provisions for reasonable exceptions and variations but you have to make and argue your particular case, you can't just say "it seems fucking unreasonable".
Secondly, HOWEVER, THIS specific example is from LA County, California. I would not be surprised at all if this owed far more to *State of California* law and regulation and LA County business ordinances than ADA itself, but I'd be speculating. At least from experience I have seen numerous stages in clubs elsewhere that do not have any such adaptation even when the rest of the club looks ADA compliant. So chalk it up to living in that very peculiar environment.
@jerkinson40: "As do ramps on every curb of every sidewalk corner in the city, unless maybe it can be shown that maybe there are some disabled people in that part of the city that might actually USE them."
By this standard we'd have to wait until someone comes downtown with evidence of disabled people around to then request the building of wheelchair ramps, which (1) doing it piecemeal is more expensive in the long run than just doing a bunch of them at the same time; and (2) would create an upfront hindrance to the disabled moving in or taking a job there to start with, or for disabled visitors or business customers to come spend their money in that part of town. You don't ignore potential future tax base.
In the world of public-safety works, curb ramps are a relatively cheap improvement. The last time I dealt with that (almost 10 years ago), it did not create a "massive" setback to the budget for regular upgrading and repair of curbs, gutters and drains to the point of requiring additional taxes or foregoing other essential work. YMMV in your town, of course. It's not like they had to do the whole city before end-of-FY to the detriment of everything else, they took years and are still at it.
The curb ramps seem extra ludicrous when you consider there is, in all likelihood, not 20 feet away from the corner, an existing ramp where somebody's driveway enters the street. But I suppose it's less than legal for a wheelchair to drive on the side of the road, so that's probably not acceptable.
@Jerikson-Both of my folks are disabled and neither one recieved shit from the gov't. Everything they have, they earned. Maybe you should spend some time with the disabled to get a deeper perspective.
My attitude and actions towards the handicap were formed by my interactions with them-High School TA for the retarded kids my Senior year, working with blind kids during my Confirmation, helping out my fellow Americans who happen to be handicapped, and helping out my folks. I ain't a saint, just a good American. 'Murica, fuck yeah!
Slick, I truly apologize. I didn't mean any disrespect, nor do I have the slightest intention to attack anyone. My only point is to apply reason, including determining what is most effective from the point of view of the disabled, not some blanket government program that may not be what's really needed.
In any case it's clear I don't know what the hell I'm talking about on this one, so I'll just apologize again and spend the rest of the day taking my foot out of my mouth. Sorry.
21 comments
The only other thought I had beyond Geek's (which seems most likely to me...) is if they have a feature coming who has some fancy props as part of her performance that get lifted onto the stage. Maybe she's dressed as some cool space chick with lasers and shit and flashing lights and she steps on the lift amid laser beams and magically levitates onto the stage.
But I'm guessing Geek's idea is probably more likely.
Two other examples, both ADA requirements:
1. The use of Braille at a drive-up ATM.
2. Here in Seattle, I took a tour of Safeco Field recently. While the tour was in the area of the home and visiting clubhouses, the umpires room is in that area, and the tour guide made sure we noticed the that the word "Umpires" was also in Braille on the sign.
Come on, every fucking sidewalk curb in the city is broken up and a new ramp is installed so some hypothetical disabled person in a wheelchair who might possibly live in the neighborhood at some point on the next 200 years can go down the street without having to use somebody's driveway ramp?
And now this? A disabled lift for a strip club stage so some hypothetical maintenance worker, who wouldn't be fucking hired anyway since he is unable to perform the job, can hypothetically get up on the stage?
To be fair, Braille keys and instructions in a drive-through ATM are there because at the factory that makes ATM keys and faceplates, once they set up production of Braille-equipped ones for regular ATMs, they're not going to keep open two whole separate assembly lines in order to also produce Braille-LESS ones; that would be inefficient business management.
And cutting in the wheelchair ramps on the sidewalk harms nobody, plus I can testify it's a convenience if you're carrying boxes in a handtruck or dragging a rolling suitcase 3 blocks to Penn Station. If I ever through accident or illness end up wheelchair bound I damn well would appreciate NOT being relegated to the status of "housebound invalid" because of a 6 inch curb, when the adaptation is trivial.
It sure as hell does....the public that is paying for it. Yeah, it's a convenience, but I could give you a list a mile long of "nice to have" conveniences that don't warrant massive expenditures.
LMAO. +200. Classic
My only point is we should be reasonable. ADA lifts for strip clubs seems fucking un reasonable. As do ramps on every curb of every sidewalk corner in the city, unless maybe it can be shown that maybe there are some disabled people in that part of the city that might actually USE them.
Firstly, ADA-based regulations apply to any "public accommodation" (food and beverage businesses; hotels; entertainment, sport and event venues; retail shops, etc.); in full if built or remodelled after passage, as best you can and resources allow if not. If you can show a certain adaptation is just structurally impracticable, it's exempted (e.g. historic structures). Accommodation has to be provided in all regularly occupied areas but that does not necessarily mean ALL of the area must be equally accessible. A stage, platform or dais in the main room of a venue IS usually covered. There are provisions for reasonable exceptions and variations but you have to make and argue your particular case, you can't just say "it seems fucking unreasonable".
Secondly, HOWEVER, THIS specific example is from LA County, California. I would not be surprised at all if this owed far more to *State of California* law and regulation and LA County business ordinances than ADA itself, but I'd be speculating. At least from experience I have seen numerous stages in clubs elsewhere that do not have any such adaptation even when the rest of the club looks ADA compliant. So chalk it up to living in that very peculiar environment.
@jerkinson40: "As do ramps on every curb of every sidewalk corner in the city, unless maybe it can be shown that maybe there are some disabled people in that part of the city that might actually USE them."
By this standard we'd have to wait until someone comes downtown with evidence of disabled people around to then request the building of wheelchair ramps, which (1) doing it piecemeal is more expensive in the long run than just doing a bunch of them at the same time; and (2) would create an upfront hindrance to the disabled moving in or taking a job there to start with, or for disabled visitors or business customers to come spend their money in that part of town. You don't ignore potential future tax base.
In the world of public-safety works, curb ramps are a relatively cheap improvement. The last time I dealt with that (almost 10 years ago), it did not create a "massive" setback to the budget for regular upgrading and repair of curbs, gutters and drains to the point of requiring additional taxes or foregoing other essential work. YMMV in your town, of course. It's not like they had to do the whole city before end-of-FY to the detriment of everything else, they took years and are still at it.
The curb ramps seem extra ludicrous when you consider there is, in all likelihood, not 20 feet away from the corner, an existing ramp where somebody's driveway enters the street. But I suppose it's less than legal for a wheelchair to drive on the side of the road, so that's probably not acceptable.
My attitude and actions towards the handicap were formed by my interactions with them-High School TA for the retarded kids my Senior year, working with blind kids during my Confirmation, helping out my fellow Americans who happen to be handicapped, and helping out my folks. I ain't a saint, just a good American. 'Murica, fuck yeah!
In any case it's clear I don't know what the hell I'm talking about on this one, so I'll just apologize again and spend the rest of the day taking my foot out of my mouth. Sorry.