Thinking about this it seems to me that the whole "fantasy" argument (SCs exist to promote fantasy) is just a rationalization strippers use to justify their lying, misleading, and other aberrant behaviors.
So does anyone go to SCs for "fantasy"? If so what fantasies are you going there to fantasize about?
Shadowcat, whether it's reality or fantasy has nothing to do with what you are doing or who you are doing it with, it's what goes on between your ears at the time that counts. If you're enjoying an LD because it feels good and you like the girl, you're enjoying the reality of it. If you're pretending she's your girlfriend, that's making it a fantasy. Both can be fun I suppose but I rarely see any need to fantasize in a club, the reality is usually good enough all by itself.
I don't go looking for fantasy either, but you can't deny that it's what many of the girls are trying to sell. And if I like the girl I don't mind buying.
I don't go to strip clubs for fantasy. I go to at least one club because I enjoy eye candy. I often go to more than one club in the same night and at one club I have never bought a lap dance since they have been open and that has been for two or 3 years I believe. I once bought a $10 table dance from one girl at that club and thought afterwards I may have made a mistake since I had several dancers come over to me afterwards and claim that I never bought any dances from them. True. I didn't want to start either and am glad they forgot quickly that I actually bought a dance. I do tip the dancers a dollar tip on stage when they get naked.
In such a club as the above where I have never purchased a lap dance, I find it amusing when a new dancer tries to talk me into paying for an expensive jacuzzi room. I asked how much since I forgot how much it was. She said $300 along with a free bottle of champagne for a certain amount of time. I forgot my exact response. I don't believe I laughed at her but was thinking she doesn't even realize she is talking to someone who has never even paid $30 or $40 dollars for their two for one special lap dance. I believe the normal price is $40 but one dancer tried harder one time to get me but it did not work. If all I did want was fantasy, I could just look around online or start emailing a number of girls online. Lots of eye candy that seems eager to please you seems to be more fun though.
FONDL: I wasn't making any implications about what you look for in strip clubs. I can tell by your posts that, like me, you have a handle on what you like and don't like.
Davids: I doubt you and I will ever agree on anything that gets brought up here. I spend money on dancers because they are working. I don't go to a SC looking for anything for free. That doesn't mean I pay a woman everytime she sits down next to me but I respect the fact that they are at the club to make money. It sounds to me like you are the one who goes into clubs trying to find girlfriends for free. That's not what I'm looking for. If you are I wish you luck
Yoda: Yeah, my MO has changed. I now go to the clubs looking for friends and GFs for free. You all are on to me.
Er.....quotes like that, not "auotes".
Fontl: auotes like that used to put me off, because they suggest stage dances with wispy veils and corny "theatrical" gimmicks. But in the context of strippers playing the role of sex craving fantasy figures who also, by the way, want to rub their luscious bodies all over mine, it makes more sense.
I just read a passage in a book ("The Seduction of Peter S." by Lawrence Sanders) that I think is an apt description of a good stripper, even though the author was talking about an escort service: "There is a strong theatrical element in our business. In a sense, we are selling an illusion."
And without dancers acting out a fantasy role, we may not THINK it would make a difference for us, but believe me, we WOULD notice. It would be a pretty sour experience. That's a point I didn't fully appreciate at the start of this topic.
Would those girls dress and act the same if you were with them outside the club or are they playing a role? You may be dealing in reality but are they? I think a lot of dancers like the fantasy aspects of their job because it allows them to separate themselves from it, just like an actor on stage does.
Yes, it's fantasy and fun. Nothing serious.
Okay, I can see that. Fantasy is what separates lap dancers we say have "a good attitude" from the "bored, mechanical" ones. Physically, the two dances may be identical, down to every detail of contact, but the experience is entirely different. Yeah, I guess I go for the fantasy afterall. That and the contact.
excuse my rudeness, but the girls put themselves in all kinds of sexual positions during stage shows and lap dances, yet they're not actually having sex with all the customers watching them or enjoying the lap, that spells fantasy to me.
Also they dress in ways not usually done in the outside world.
Yoda, I didn't mean to imply that I go for fantasy either, in fact I'd much rather the girls be themselves rather than act out the kind of fantasy that they think I'm looking for. But my point is, a good LD almost always involves some sort of fantasy on their part, because they are pretending to have feelings for me that aren't there. I know that but I still enjoy it. I think the best girls understand this, and act one way toward me when we're sitting talking and act entirely differently when we're alone together. So I get a little of both - reality and fantasy - which is nice.
FONDL:
I had different objectives than you: I did not want them to pretend to be my girlfriend. I hated when they tried that. I wanted good lap dances. But ok, I'll accept that some customers actually want that.
Yoda said:
"I walk into the club expecting to spend money and realizing that, if I wasn't spending on them, these women wouldn't give me the time of day. "
My experiences are vastily different. The less I spend the more attention I get. Maybe I'm just more attractive than the rest of you! (That is a joke for the humor impaired among you).
Honestly, I realize it's counter intuitive to think you can hang around in a strip club and get the employees to talk to you for free. Probably a secret the industry doesn't want you to know... (Also the best way to score dates/friendships according to those who, apparently, have studide these matters and write books on the subject.)
(Clueless Ass-Kissing Man) Yoda also said:
"The fantasy part is when, after 3 or 4 ld's, a customer starts to think that this woman might actually like them or go home with them. That's the point when dancers will start reminding you that it's only a "fantasy". "
Again my experiences were vastly different. After 3 or 4 visits, I often had strippers telling me that they actually liked me or "maybe we should get to together outside of here sometime". This was under their own initiative. That's their idea of promoting a "fantasy". I call it lying, because when I called them on it they either backed down (fun to watch them squirm) or explained that they would like to but already had plans for the next 2 months, or came up with some other non-sense straight out of the USAE (universal stripper archive of excuses).
I don't especially think of it as fantasy either. But when you pay money to take a girl into a VIP room so that she will pretend to be your girl friend for half an hour or so, what else do you call it? There's certainly nothing real about it. Isn't the unreality of it part of the fun?
I don't think dancers feel the need to justify anything to THEMSELVES since the stigma and stereotypes attached to their profession are mostly the promoted by outsiders who don't know the first thing about the job or what it involves.
I don't go for a fantasy. I walk into the club expecting to spend money and realizing that, if I wasn't spending on them, these women wouldn't give me the time of day. The fantasy part is when, after 3 or 4 ld's, a customer starts to think that this woman might actually like them or go home with them. That's the point when dancers will start reminding you that it's only a "fantasy". A fantasy that lasts as long as your money holds out.
No, I go to strip clubs for contact with good looking young girls. That's why I don't go to non-contact clubs.
If I all I wanted was fantasy, I could fantasize about my secretary, or some naughty opposing lawyer, for free.
I've always assumed the whole "just selling a fantasy" line was to reassure outsiders, wives, suckers. The same people who, it was said in another thread, seem to think no customer could ever touch a dancer. However, I have read guys who should know better use it to describe what they get out of a high-contact lap dance. The only sense I can make of it is that they mean they aren't expecting to date the dancers or have sex.
Forgot an important point: I think most customers go to SCs for good LDs, not "fantasy" (this chick is really hot for me). Have I got it all wrong?
I think the word "fantasy" causes a lot of problems. Let's agree that strip clubs are a male fantasyland, or male playground, whatever you prefer, where all women are beautiful (at least in theory), where they all dress in as little as possible, where they are eager to get naked and have you lust over their bodies, willing to go to the back room and rub their naked bodies over you, and where rejection is almost unheard of as long as you have a few bucks in your wallet. Now, I will stipulate that these places and the girls are real and that the experiences we have in them are real, but as a subculture it is a fantasyland, and that's why I like it.