The New PL+ Strategy???

I think it's definitely do-able, but like you said you could only do it once at any given club. Without any ID on you there isn't much a club can do except call the cops, but most clubs will just eat the loss and toss you out on your ear. It would be a low life cheesedick move to deliberately plan to do something like that, tho. It would really give new meaning to the term Pathetic Loser.

Agreed that it is FUBAR and I gotta tell you I was itching to say something or be a witness or some shit but I pussied out and kept my mouth shut. So I guess I'm a pretty PL also but on the plus side I paid my fucking tab and gave my smoking hot waitress a nice boner, I mean bonus!!!

Yee Haw Motherfucker I'm in Texas goddamnit!!!

Well, it's probably no different from skipping out of any business without paying...

If you walk out of WalMart with a pair of shorts stuffed in your shirt, security can hold you, call the cops and have you arrested for stealing stuff. Then they either check your receipt or lack of receipt and if you can't prove you paid they take the shorts back, pull down your pants in public and spank your bare bottom. Well, maybe not the part about the spanking, but I think the other stuff is right. And I suppose they could take you to court, but the costs would be far too great for something small like that, so they just let you go I suppose.

Now if you skip a restaurant or strip club without paying, there really isn't any evidence that they can use to prove anything, except maybe a video camera or testimony of others who saw you, if anyone actually DID see you getting lapdances in the VIP.

I suppose they still COULD call the cops and have you arrested for theft and later bring you to court, but that seems like a whole lot of work for not much benefit. And they probably have no evidence at all worth considering. Even with a video showing you getting laps you could argue she said they were free, there was no implied or explicit contract for money in exchange for anything, blah blah blah.

So I'm guessing that their only real way to combat stuff like this is to have tough looking bouncers who try to scare you and talk real big, when in fact if they lay a hand on you you could have them arrested for laying a hand on you. And so they try to resolve it with having the manager reason with you. If none of those work, I can't see another alternative.

But I'm no lawyer, so I could be totally wrong.

By the way, I did a quick search and I think this is classified as "theft of services".

And also I saw something that says "Theft of this sort should not be confused with reasonable rejection, where, for example, a customer does not pay because the services provided were not as advertised or because the services did not meet reasonable standards of quality"

Now THAT could be reasonable grounds for not paying for MANY lap dances I've had over the years... :)

Since you're in Texas I assume, here's a link to the Texas Penal Code dealing with it:

law.onecle.com

Have fun.

And here's a link to the listing of penalties for the different classes of misdemeanors in Texas, which I presume this would probably be if it could be proven:

pevetolaw.com

So it looks like the club would have to be willing to file charges, which seems to me extremely unlikely based on not only the cost, but also the bad public image it projects if a club prosecutes a customer. And then they'd have to have some sort of proof to show the court, which also seems extremely unlikely.

I dunno, seems to me that this PL, while being a world class douchebag, was a pretty smart douchebag. Hopefully I'm missing something, cuz this sucks.

Here, in Richmond, you HAVE to pre-pay 4 your dances :(so this type of thing doesn't happen.

I've heard of the situation before, but not in a strip club. If a customer comes into a business, such as a restuarant, orders a meal and then has absolutely no means to pay for it, that that can be prosecuted as a crime, if it can be determined that the lack of payment was intentional.

You could also piss off a bouncer to the point where you're made a paraplegic as in the case of the Crazy Horse Too in Las Vegas.

Wow, remind me never to go to Richmond...you have to pay huge bucks for laps AND pre-pay? That's not good on any level. I feel for you....

Yeah, I think the real concern might be as Club_Goer said...pissing off an unstable bouncer. Sure, you can prosecute a bouncer for laying a hand on you, but when you're in a hospital bed in traction that's little comfort. And I think we've all heard stories of bouncers thinking they're tough guys with license to beat the crap out of everyone.

Interesting research Mr Jerikson I'll have to read some that stuff when I get to something other than my phone. One point I would make however is regarding the backlash effect of prosecuting "ne'er-do-wells." when I managed a chain of retail outlets in the 80s we had a 100% prosecution policy and we actually took kids to juvi court over stealing things like shoelaces. The idea wasn't about recouping our lost revenue but rather establishing a precedent that if you stole from us you were going to jail (court) so we could leverage that reputation to promote FUD in the minds of people who might be inclined to do us harm.

The same approach would go for SCs in that once they established the reputation for coming down hard on guys like the PL they could relax a little bit because and the cycle begins again.

That PL is an asshole that probably pulls shit like that with other businesses and probably other people, too. He lucked out that those bouncers were as kind as they were. At the Jiu Jitsu school that I attend, we have a few bouncers that train. Those cats are just waiting for schmucks like this to pull some nonsense.

In Oklahoma it's called defrauding an innkeeper and the police can arrest you for it. Not sure what the penalty is, but we've threatened to call the cops when some douchebag refuses to pay for LDs. Of course, if I had my way, I'd just beat the shit out of them and "accidentally" erase the videotape.

"In Oklahoma it's called defrauding an innkeeper and the police can arrest you for it. Not sure what the penalty is, but we've threatened to call the cops when some douchebag refuses to pay for LDs."

Interesting...sounds like you've worked at a strip club?

I'm guessing that, depending on the amount, it's probably a misdemeanor with a small fine and maybe a small possibility of some jail time.

And yeah, I assume threatening to call the cops is probably the standard response to something like this, but I'm curious if anyone actually does call the cops...and if they do, does anyone actually follow thru with prosecution? Anyone can call the cops, just like anyone can sue you on a whim, but making a winnable case is the tough part.

What an incredible asshole. I think its actually pretty hard work giving ten songs worth of lapdances. Not paying is a dick move.

Now shes going to be even less trusting, and try to rip everybody off even more. For every ROB there is a no paying/no tipping asshole.

"For every ROB there is a no paying/no tipping asshole"

Wow, not sure I'd go that far...seems a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Some people, including some strippers, have no problem being dishonest all by themselves. Although I realize it's more fun to blame someone else for our faults......

He is the reason that some dancers demand prepayment.

I have had to go to the manager for a ROB inflating the number of dances. It usually involves a dance has 10 or 15 seconds to go when we enter the booth and she wants to charge. I have never shorted a dancer since they are just trying to earn a living. If I were the manager I would take this douchebag's picture and post it prominently above the bouncer station with the caption No Admittance For Non Payment of Tab. Then send it around the other local clubs for good measure. Like they do in some stores for bad checks.

Mojo, if you're in San Antonio, you should stop by Rudy's BBQ. MMMMMM Good!

Jerkison, I would go that far, or I wouldnt have said it. Im sure theres more ROBs though. Jackslash, I second Rudys bbq.

That is why places are going to pre-pay or you give a bouncer/doorman/bartender the $$ and they give the dancer a coin, ticket, etc. Or I have seen a bouncer sit with a log book and count how long you are in the room....ie 2,3,4...10 etc songs. Then if you don't pay that is the dancers word and the bouncers word against you. You lose!!! The place where I saw the bouncer counting off was also a pretty prvt area for LD. They bouncers was just outside the entrance and when we walked out the dancer stopped at the table and looked at what he had written down and said.... it was only 5 songs not 6 because we waited for one song to end. She got a extra tip from me...and it wasn't the one I wished to give her...but it was nice.

I third the Rudy's BBQ stop!

She should never have let it go past one the first time and then demand payment after every two there after. It is a business ya know.

Guess who's heading over to Rudy's for lunch?

This lucky sombitch that's who!

Do you think that Founder will let me submit a review if I make it all sexy an shit?

@Jerikson - yeah, I have and do currently work at a strip club. I looked it up, and the penalty for anything under $500 is up to a %500 fine, up to 3 months in county, or both.

And I am also a 20+ year strip clubber. I can't help it - I love strippers. As often as possible.

Do you think that Founder will let me submit a review if I make it all sexy an shit?

If you make it dripping in BBQ sauce maybe Juice will approve it.

That's some next-level PL bullshit right there. That is beyond PL.

I've heard that at some COI clubs, if the dancer is well-trusted (that is, if the manager believes the dancer and not the PL), the bouncers won't let the PL leave until he coughs up the money. If he doesn't have it, they'll make him call someone to bring him the money. Regardless what time of day it is.

At least, that's what I've heard. Never seen it or had it happen to me though.

I've heard about bouncers literally accidentally killing someone for much minor offenses in my area. Sure you can sue the club and bouncer but will that make it feel worth it when it's your word against the club and you are in the hospital? Hospital bills are a whole lot higher than lap dances.

Customers who don't pay what they owe are thieves. However I understand some dancers may count the last part of a song as a whole song and a minute or two intermission with the DJ talking the whole time as another song but the customer usually will not consider those to be songs worth paying for or valid songs. Kind of like having to pay for 15 minutes of commercials when the show has yet to start but you need to leave. She should just stop dancing during a DJ intermission and say it doesn't count and not start until a full song starts. Then both dancer and customer could be happy and maybe they could keep up with the count. Some of my favorites just keep on dancing and tell me up front something like that doesn't count in the song count. We stay on the same page and she asks if I want more keeping up with the total.

I guess some do not do this. A real PL would attempt to get dances without paying.

And this is why I ALWAYS get the money up front. This would just never happen. How would you even get into the club without an ID?

Anyway, someone shorted a girl I used to work with and she got ahold of his address from his plates and had some dudes show up at his house and recoup her losses.

"And this is why I ALWAYS get the money up front"

Oh really?

Hold on, let me get my notebook....let's see....clubs not to visit...

Okay honey, now where do you dance?

^ and nothing of value was lost

BWAHAHAHA!!!

My question is what is the big deal about not paying up front for a LD?

It is not ITC activities or anything like that. You know what you are getting into....a Lapdance. If you tell a dancer you want a lap dance....she will give you one. Now going into VIP or something like that is a little different....because promises could have been made and not kept. But for a LD.... why not pay up front? Why do you think places have the machines now....because of assholes like the one mentioned in the story.

Onething I forgot to mention.... is if they call the cops and this guy has been drinking.....or if he gets messed up a little bit but was drinking.... He better have witnesses...otherwise it is the bouncers word vs a drunk person who skipped out on a bill. Typically Bouncer wins. I know when I used to bounce at a bar the owner and his lawyers said never to throw a punch unless they did it first. Or never break up a fight with a fist... But going in hard with a shoulder, elbow (not swinging elbow mma style), or forearm shiver is ok. You would be surprised at what those can do.....OR how when escorting some drunks out of the bar they would help open the door for me with their face....ie there hands are behind them. ;-) I am just saying that this guy will get roughed up and won't have any fall back on the "I will sue them".

What's the big deal about not paying upfront for lap dances?

Well, when you pay upfront for a lap dance, the RISK in the transaction shifts from the dancer to you.

If I pay before I receive the laps, then the risk to me is maximized. Why? Because if the dancer receives the money up front, she's "whole" no matter how she performs. And she can perform less than expected and still be able to walk away with her money.

If I pay only after receiving the expected services, I can withhold payment if the services were not rendered, or not rendered as expect. Then if any argument ensues, I don't have to worry about getting my money back.

It's all about who assumes the risk in the transaction. Dancers think customers should assume the risk, customers think dancers should assume the risk. There is no "right" answer to the question, it's just a matter of trust and risk.

Personally, I've encountered far too many dancers who aren't worthy of my trust, and if I pay them up front they might have less incentive to perform and might just go thru the motions. Doesn't mean they are all like that, it's just not, IMO, a smart business model to treat your customers like you don't trust them in such a blatant manner. Just common business sense, IMO.

By the way, this attitude of disrespecting and mistrusting customers has many other symptoms, most of which make me decide not to patronize a particular club...

Like when they scan your ID. Or when the DJ complains if customers aren't performing as he'd like (ie, tipping, clapping, etc.). Or when they won't let you bring in a cellphone. Or when the drink girl bugs you every 10 seconds to buy a drink. Or when a dancer bitches if you aren't tipping her enough. All of these things make customers feel like the club is more of a pain than it's worth.

Smart clubs and managers and strippers know how to treat customers so that they WANT to come to the club and have fun and tip dancers and make it a fun environment. Dumb managers and strippers operate on disrespect and mistrust.

It's all how you look at it.