Giving money to a dancer OTC

Before you GIVE MONEY to a stripper, please answer these questions

Do you know her REAL NAME?
Do you know her PHONE NUMBER?
Do you know her ADDRESS?
Is she your FRIEND?

please post some answers

FONDL, I think that's what I said, more or less.

AN, try the other Hepburn - Audrey. Holly Golightly in "Breakfast At Tiffany's" is my ATF, when I first met her that's who she reminded me of (in personality, not looks, she was never that thin.) That's my all-time favorite movie and probably partly accounts for my initial attraction to my ATF. She's got that happy/sad combination for which I've always been a sucker.

Chandler, to revise my earlier comment to you, I think the lesson from my story is that life is unpredictable. Or as I once read somewhere, "Life is what happens while you're making other plans."

FONDL, it seems to me you get a lot of enjoyment out of a certain kind of relationship with young girls. Part sugar-daddy, part mentor. It reminds me of "The Philedelphia Story" and the philandering father's explanation to Katherine Hepburn about how a man needs a young girl to look at him in a certain way as he grows older. When the role isn't filled by a daughter or a young trophy wife he may turn to a mistress. I may need to re-watch that one, or at least that scene. There may be some truth to it.

By the way, nothing in that post should be read as being judgemental or an insult. Just an observation. I'm sure some will see it otherwise.

Chandler, I don't expect anyone to draw any lessons from this, I'm just relating an experience of mine that I enjoy talking about, just as others do here. And when I first started to give her money OTC I never expected or intended it to result in a friendship, in fact I was hoping for something quite different. The friendship just sort of happened because we were spending so much time together and it turned out that we both really enjoyed it, probably because we had a ton of common interests, which came as a complete surprise to both of us.

FONDL, it's hard to say what lesson to draw from your example other than going against to your principles at times can lead to good things you never thought possible. I believe in being generous to people I'm close to, not to people I want to become close to. Although I expect my attitude about some things to change as I get older, this is not one of them.

So the moral of the story is that if you spend money on strippers for 40 years you will eventually find one which you succeed in buying the friendship of. A valuable for all TUSCL'ites to take to hear.

Well done, FONDL!

Just to clear up a couple of misunderstandings, we weren't friends when this all began, she was a stripper whose company I really enjoyed, and I was her best customer. When I started giving her money OTC I mainly did it to get something in return, namely her spending time with me, which she did. We didn't really become friends in any conventional sense until quite a bit later. And if I hadn't gone out of my way to help her when she needed it, we probably never would have become friends. At first she strongly resisted any help because she thought I had ulterior motives (which I clearly did but they weren't the ones she suspected) and didn't want to feel like she owed me anything. I didn't realize it at the time but it really did remain a stripper-customer relationship long after she quit dancing (partly because she ultimately returned to working in strip clubs but as a waitress.) Friendship came much later, after I had helped her quite a bit, not before. My help and her spending a lot of time with me in return is what led to friendship, not the other way around. (Incidently, my help wasn't entirely financial, I ultimately helped her in many different ways and still do.)

What I find most interesting about this entire episode is that if someone else had raised this set of questions 10 years ago, in the abstract I probably would have answered no to both of the last two questions. But now that I've seen what a difference a little help can make in someone's life and what a rewarding friendship can result from it, I'm very glad I did what I did. The entire episode has changed my views about money quite a bit. (The fact that I've lost a lot of close friends and relatives over the last 10 years has also changed my views about a lot of things, including money.) I think a lot of you will find that your views about money (and a lot of other things) will be very different when you're 60 then when you're 30. When you're older you are likely to have more money while at the same time having less need for it. It makes a big difference.

To simply sum it all up, because I was willing to help my ATF, we've become very close friends, probably the closest friendship I've ever had. I can't imaging my life without her today. It's worth double what it cost me. I think I was very lucky.

It's interesting the hurdles one might subconsciously lay out there to see if anyone climbs over them and the path beyond the hurdles that follow. Met a stripper in a club, had some great conversations with her, was told things by her I didn't feel I deserved to know. Instantly I knew this was the one(ATF) but before I went overboard I was able to think somewhat objectively about things and see how things went. Nothing felt right when I wasn't in the club but ohhhhhhhhhhhhh when I was in the club.......... Thankfully I was able to largely divest myself of any further interest before going overboard. In answer to your question (the preceding was the setup) for someone I had belief in there prolly isn't any length I wouldn't go to assist a friend like that. If it was someone I built up a relationship with both ITC AND OTC over a long period and I could afford to give a helping hand without a major hindrance to my lifestyle I'd go about six or seven of the whole nine yards. Note this wouldn't work for everyone. I live quite simply and want for very lil. (I am far from well-off)

1) No.
2) No.

She is completely capable of doing these things by herself. Millions of women do. She does need your help in doing them. To suggest she does is you trying to make her dependent on you. At best a loan, with a fair interest rate might be in order. But a gift is completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

FONDL: In your latest scenarios, my answer would be dependent on the nature of any friendship that might exist, not on an ATF/customer relationship. Furthermore, in each case, the goal of getting out of dancing or avoiding a return to dancing wouldn't hold much additional sway for me.

FONDL: Except for the first instance regarding helping her out when she first stopped dancing I still don't see how any of this has "OTC" relevance. She's a friend and you offered to help her out. I realize that the way you met effects your relationship but, it did for me as well, but she's not a dancer ANYMORE so the money you give her is not OTC, since there is no more "C". You are helping a friend. I think that's admirable.

Yoda, I don't think of her as a former dancer, she and I are both very different people than were then. But the fact remains that how we met has a great deal to do with the shape and closeness of our relationship is today. The intimacy we share, and I don't mean physical, wouldn't otherwise be there. For example she told me some very personal things yesterday that she'd never tell anyone else. If we hadn't been through an awful lot together, including her dancing experience, we'd have never gotten to this point. So the dancing is always there somewhere in the background for us.

Now let me tell you all why I started this discussion in the first place (aside from the fact that like Shadowcat I enjoy thinking and talking about my ATF) and I think you'll see that it is very relavent. Let's back up about 7 years and ask about two other situations that preceded and ultimately led to the first two questions.

(1) Your ATF wants to quit dancing and get on with a more normal life, but any job she takes is going to pay a whole lot less than she's been making as a dancer and she doesn't know if she can do it. All her other customers try to talk her out of quitting. What would you do? Would you offer to help?

(2) Sometime later she's working as a waitress and not making very much. She would like to take some college courses to increae her earnings potential while continuing to work (she already has a 2-year degree that she got while dancing), but she can't afford to do so. One option is to go back to dancing but she really doesn't want to do that again. She hasn't asked you for anything. Would you offer to help?

I think we all have a place where we draw the line about giving money to someone, especially a dancer or someone we met when they were dancing. I'm curious to see where the rest of you would draw that line, which is why I've asked these questions and why I asked the easy ones first. Just curious about the opinions of those who have gotten to know a favorite dancer from a club really well who needed some help. How far were you willing to go?

FONDL: I know how you feel about this lady. I would have done exactly what you did but this whole topic has nothing to do with dancers and OTC.

My ATF has been retired for well over three years and has an entirely new life. I rarely even think of her as a former dancer and I certainly don't base my thought process around her having been a dancer. You should be doing the same.

It seems to me this is about charity towards friends, not giving money to a dancer OTC. Of course, I try to be generous to friends and people in need. I wish your friend good health, FONDL.

What on earth does this have to do with strippers?

If you want encouragement, I've heard that true friends are there for you in times of trouble as well as the fun times. Many people would just leave and not care.

If you want positive reinforcement than it's that I will offer. Depending on how many people you let yourself get close to there's nothing wrong with helping somebody out OTC espesh if it is as legit as you make it sound. I know there are a coupla people (well one) to whom I would be overly generous with if the sit ever arose. OTOH there was another stripper (first person was in industry but not a stripper) to whom I would have been overly generous to for no other reason than she struck a nerve. Congrats on being a kind person in this instance FONDL.