Is My Attitude All Wrong?
I've never had TOC service but I'd kinda like to on occasion. I've always assumed that if you treat the ladies with respect, play a bit to their own insecurities and show that you're not some greedy tightwad that many an OTC relationship wold be a natural extension of the relationship. Hasn't worked out for me so far.
For example, one girl I liked dancing with mentioned her favorite restauant was Applebee's. Some visits later after a private dance I said here is your tip and gave her a $50 gift certificate for Applebee's. She seemed very happy at the time and I thought it might be a good way to stick out form the crowd of guys in the club. After all what's an extra $50 in the stripping. Maybe such actions are corny and a waste of time.
Alucard has mentioned more careful qualifications for ATF status. What qualifications do each of you use before conferring ATF status of your favorite club stripper?.
Leonard 313 comments seem to resonate with some truth. Is just blunt forward asking for OTC the most reliable way to go?
Always looking to learn and don't worry, I'm a salesman with a thick skin. FYI I'm 58, fairly average looking 6' and a 300 pound former good athlete gone to seed :-)
For example, one girl I liked dancing with mentioned her favorite restauant was Applebee's. Some visits later after a private dance I said here is your tip and gave her a $50 gift certificate for Applebee's. She seemed very happy at the time and I thought it might be a good way to stick out form the crowd of guys in the club. After all what's an extra $50 in the stripping. Maybe such actions are corny and a waste of time.
Alucard has mentioned more careful qualifications for ATF status. What qualifications do each of you use before conferring ATF status of your favorite club stripper?.
Leonard 313 comments seem to resonate with some truth. Is just blunt forward asking for OTC the most reliable way to go?
Always looking to learn and don't worry, I'm a salesman with a thick skin. FYI I'm 58, fairly average looking 6' and a 300 pound former good athlete gone to seed :-)
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You might have had better luck if you'd actually *taken her to Applebee's instead of giving her a gift certificate. Something like that makes a good gift for a birthday or Christmas, if you're so inclined. Did it work?
I think it would be a better idea to ask her to Applebee's yourself, instead if a gift card. Nice gesture, but if you want to find out where she stands, ask her go go out with you. If you get one excuse after another, move on quickly. There are too many others who will accept your offer!
Not yet. Taking her to Applebee's would involve OTC contact. I've had zero OTC experience. That's why I'm asking the questions and soliciting suggestions.
For example, I had a dancer last night that I really kind of liked. I felt I was respectful (didn't try to shove my finger in her pussy during the first 2 dances) and that we had a nice 60 minute conversational exchange afterward in the smoking room. I went back for 5 more dances after the chat. All the dances were great. Plenty of nipple sucking, grinding, dirty talking. neck nibbling and quite a but of gear stick shifting if you catch my drift. I was really attracted to her physical appearance as well. I was building for the future.
Then I read reviews about the same club from guys who apparently have private dance experience with the same girl and they report that during the first song, she was so horny they basically had to beat her away with a pool cue to keep her from demanding that she have sex with them right on the spot. Are they lying or am I just completely clueless on how to conduct yourself in s strip bar?
Probably some fantasic advice there about moving on. Always been kind hard for me. As a salesman we never throw away qualified prospects. Once a girl whispers these words in my ear during a lapdance, "oh fuck me baby" I consider her a qualified prospect :-)
That seems to be the new consensus, but if you ask less knowledgable folks like Ricky-boy Dugan they will tell you it takes ten years to figure out a system for it, and your chances are best if you are the only guy wearing a suit in a dive club. He has a ton of other ridiculous beliefs always good for a laugh, but the wiser heads on here say "just ask".
I feel like a coach, so get back in there are try again, but if the excuses start pouring in, then kick her to the curb.
Good luck!! Just don't ever allow yourself to get played for a sucker!
Please . . . . I'm asking serious questions here and trying to foster serious discussion so I can learn something. Kindly do not crap up this thread by bringing your flame war with Dugan to this discussion. You have your own thread and the two of you can slug it out there to your hearts content. Just politely askin'
OK Coach. I'll buck the line again. She asked me to meet her at a different club tonight (regular club is closed Sundays). I think I'll grow a pair and just straight out ask her about OTC. Let you know if the trainers have to carry me out of the game later. ;-)
With regards to OTC asking, stick to your own personality type. If you are naturally an aggressive personality, ask for OTC right off. If you are more laid back, get to know the dancer better. Also pay attention to how the dancer is behaving. That might provide clues as to her interest in OTC. From what I have read of your posts, I am thinking you are more laid back than real aggressive.
Regarding ATF qualifications, I look at it differently than the rest of the membership. I am looking for consistency in a dancer's behavior and consistent, engaged and enthusiastic performance in the VIP. I also need for the dancer to be able to converse well. I also personally tend towards more mature dancers. Of the 3 I've had 2 have been in their 30's. The other was late 20's. I also need to feel some "Chemistry" with the dancer. I just try to get to know the dancer well over a period of time to see if she meets my qualifications.
You need to use your own standards when deciding. BUT I would urge you to get to know the dancer as well as you can before deciding to make her an ATF. Nothing wrong with making a dancer a favorite and patronizing her a lot. I am EXCLUSIVE with my ATFs and don't see other dancers.
I am a traveling road warrior, and like you, an older guy 'gone to seed'. I am an advocate of the straight forward 'just ask' approach. Don't do it immediately. Buy a few lap dances from the girl or buy her a few drinks and lead the conversation to your direction. If you are handing out $50 certificates as tips I am assuming that you are not a brokeass. Let the girl know that there is money to be made.
I claim no perfect record but I have enough acceptances to be happy with my particular moves.
Good luck.
IT’S ALL BUSINESS.
Along the lines of what gmd said – cash is king.
One does not have to woo a dancer and be “nice†and “respectful†to get sex from her as one would w.r.t. a civilian chick. If you got the $$$ and she does OTC, she will do it. You don’t have to “get her to like you†– that is in the civilian world not the SC world.
“… OTC relationship wold be a natural extension of the relationship …â€
I am not sure if by “relationship†you mean that you are hoping she will like you as much as you like her? The only extension of the relationship from her point of view is how much money she can get out of you – that is her angle of the “relationship†– not sure what your angle/hope/desire is?
Like I said, I may be misinterpreting your post – but it is just business (especially for her) IMO – and since it is just business, as in business, all it takes is adequate compensation for the deal to happen if both parties and interested in dealing.
I speak enough Russian to get by but not well enough that they don't laugh at my accent. I've made 35+ trips to Moscow since 1997. There is no "chit-chat" required. $300 will buy you a whole night in any orifice with a lady who looks like she's auditioning for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders or a Victoria Secrets catalog shoot. Back in 2000 you could do the same for $100.
Maybe I should organize a TUSCL "field trip" to Moscow. I guarantee you some guys would never come back.
I assume that if the girl at least likes you (thinks you are polite, kind, no danger to her), she'd be more responsive to OTC. Is that an errant assumption?
Of course, if one acts like a total jerk the business (no matter which type) may not want you as a customer. But as with most “servicesâ€, if you are willing to pay the going rate, the provider is willing to offer the service – you don’t have to be “nice†or get them to like yoiu.
If you are “nice†and don’t have cash – you are not getting shit pardon my French :).
In fact, SCs being bizarro world that they are, often means that if you are “nice†that this will often work against you as one’s “niceness†can and often will be used againts you to try to bleed you dry.
It’s business. One should treat it as buying a car. If you are too “nice†to the sales person – good chance he may pretend to be “nice†to you but also very good chance he will try to stick it to you.
If we had good looks and youth on our side we probably wouldn't need to frequest strip clubs very often would we?
You comment is a fair one. I have an annual income level that our President says needs to pay more taxes. It's broaching the topic and reaching the agreement to have OTC that I'm asking about.
@alucard
As usual, you comments are positive and helpful Thanks.
If the dancer is willing to give you LDs b/c you are paying her – then she will be willing to give you OTC if you pay her and she does OTC.
"In fact, SCs being bizarro world that they are, often means that if you are “nice†that this will often work against you as one’s “niceness†can and often will be used againts you to try to bleed you dry."
Thanks Papi - that is an interesting comment that I'm going to really have to think about.
Maybe they expect a little "edge" or they think they can just run roughshod all over you? Gotta remember these girls are not looking for boyfriends from the customer ranks.
There are way too many members here who advocate AGAINST being gentlemanly. Again, just be yourself & if that is being gentlemanly - so be it.
"AS others have said in other threads – do you think this girl would be interested in you if you had not met her in a SC and were not paying her? If not, it means that this is just a business transaction."
Boy, two great thought provokers in less than 5 minutes. Thanks Papi. I think everyone needs to ask themselves this simple question when that beautiful 24 year old girl is stroking your 58 year old leg and giving you the come hither look with her eyes.
Yes, this is kind of a moronic statement, but like I said if one is *genuinely* confused as to how a dancer truly feels about you, then don’t give them money and see how they treat you. If someone “really likes youâ€, you shouldn’t have to pay them to be with you/me :)
I'm ALWAYS a gentleman even when whoring. I've always assumed there is nothing to be gained by being borrish when you're trying to convience a woman to have sex with you; either by charm or by cash.
One can be nice as long as one is able to see things for what they really are and one is not trying to be nice in hopes that niceness will mean she (dancer) will really like you/me – this is the very rare exception as most TUSCLers have testified in the many different posts in the past.
In the end we guys pay for our relationships with women in many and differing ways whether they are dancers, civilians or otherwise. Clubs work best for me at this point in time and I prefer to be nice.
Also yes I agree in the "just ask" after a short while with the dancer.
No, that's not always the case. I'm a 38 yo guy with a decent body and an average face. I've always done OK with women. I'm also married and a strip club provides me with the no-obligation opportunities that I won't find at a regular bar. It also provides the variety of women that I seek. Strip clubs are not there solely for those that cant attract women. Every customer has their own reason why they club.
"Maybe I should organize a TUSCL "field trip" to Moscow. I guarantee you some guys would never come back."
I know six words of Russian, I am willing to give it a go. Sign me up!!
Like others have mentioned your age & especially your size are working against you. Also keep in mind that if even you think what you do or say is corny, can you imagine what a 20-something woman would think of it? Be polite, but you've got to let your wallet do the talking....and you might wind up paying more than some, but if it's worth it to you, then it's money well spent.
I generally agree with Alucard and Art and their approach. When the OTC time comes, you will remember your technique and the type of personality you "click" with.
PS: Sign me up for the Russia trip. I have never been with a Russian girl.
For alutard that "point in time" has lasted for at least 30 years now by self confession. I.e. starting when he was 28. I think anyone who has followed his history won't be scared to "go out on a limb" and say it's actually been his whole life. How a guy can claim to be such a great respecter of women, but refuse to date any, and only have paid interactions with strippers is something pretty baffling. Again, I would go out on a limb and say he is FOS when he claims to respect them. Actually hates them, and uses his pontifications here to project and try and deflect attention from that reality about himself.
People have given you a lot of good advice, and I can only tell you what I do. I was nervous at first about asking for OTC. I thought the dancers might be insulted and only later did I realize that they get asked every day. If you're polite, they won't get mad. Not every dancer does OTC and a particular dancer may not be free to do OTC that night or might only be open to OTC with customers she already knows. I was unsuccessful the first few times I tried to get OTC. So now I play the percentages and ask every dancer I find highly attractive. About half say yes.
You may also be going to the wrong clubs in the wrong cities. If you ever go to Detroit, you will find most of the dancers--in upscale clubs or dives--are open to OTC.
Sign me up for the Moscow trip.
Hell yeah. Sign me up.
A good goal is to find the ones that do respond. You will receive better experiences and less drama. Dancers do not treat all customers the same.
There is a poster on here who disagrees, he feels that they are all just whores and treats them as such. He also has to pick them up for OTC because they are so messed up they don't drive. There is quality out there, you just need to find it.
Wow! Tittyfuck changing his tune. He used to say that dancers only did OTC for customers as a "reward" for them being "nice guys". He is also now admitting that I do do OTC.
That's a huge streak of honesty compared to your usual lie, lie, lie and just dig in deeper when called down. What's next you admit to being wrong with your advice to short treasuries?
Hilarious that I am steamrolling you and Ricky-boy so bad these days that you are backing off nearly all your former lies!
Got say - I just love the smell of roasted tittyfuck in the morning. Smells like... Victory!
Definitely Yes.
I've decided that I'm going to start to take a bit more aggressive stance when it comes to OTC relationships. That will mean closing the wallet when OTC is offered and refused. It will also require me to get less emotionally attached to girls I'm physically attracted to. Because of my physical appearance I'm probably going to have more "at bats" and expect a lower "batting average" than guys 30 years younger and 100 pounds lighter. My goal is to get 1 in 5 success stories for not more than $100 what I consider the going market rate (right now I'd consider that $300 in my area). I'll let you know how that works out after I've had time to test the theory. Wish me luck.
It might be fun to play with dancers but drama may follow. Especially if one dancer is a lot more attached to you than you think. I once had a dancer stalk me all night when I was in the strip club watching me everywhere. Then she blew her top really pissed off accusing me of sleeping with another dancer because I spent too much time with another dancer. I wasn't expecting that. I didn't even know she was watching me all night long. She told me she had been or I would not have known. Even in the VIP dance room. I said no when she asked if I was sleeping with the other dancer. I wonder what juice might have said? I think she was wondering why I was getting a bunch of dances from different dancers when she offered to have sex whenever I wanted. I was just having fun.
Yeap – dancers will run the gamut – from lying about liking you to bleed you dry to being psycho possessive – we just need to watch our backs (and our sides, and our fronts :))
Spousal blackmail doesn't work if you aren't married, etc.