My Attempt At OTC Part II

54 comments

• Estafador

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  12 years ago

  omg, your stories are hilarious. Makes me wanna go out and just see how far I can go (I don't fuck for cash so I won't actually go through with anything). Aww man, thanks for the laughter
• jackslash

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  12 years ago

  Keep on asking. There's no magic formula. Not every stripper will do OTC and not every stripper is available that night. Being out of town, you are limited to that night. If you're in your own town, you can ask for her phone number and try to set things up for a mutually agreeable time. The first few times I asked strippers about OTC I was not successful. But once you have your first OTC it becomes a lot easier.
• mrrock

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  12 years ago

  Keep working at it brother! Maybe try something like "you like to party?" Rather than "you really need to come back to my hotel with me". From their point of view their like "no I don't NEED too". But especially with younger ones they like party. So it's a good icebreaker for OTC.
• georgmicrodong

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  12 years ago

  If you used that exact wording, it might just have come across more as a demand than a request. I suppose that migh work for some, but frankly, it's not the way I would bet. Especially for an out of towner.
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  I see your point. May come off asperity demanding. Even though i had a good,rapport going with all of them. These chicks,we're all hot. Do you think that could make the task more difficult?
• jester214

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  12 years ago

  I'm not sure you were clear enough that you weren't just saying "hey lets hook up". A few casual comments, and how they respond to them, can usually tell you if they ever do OTC. Once you know if they do/don't, then you can get a little more serious in negotiation.
• stenton1

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  12 years ago

  In my opinion, you were behind the 8 ball. Being an out of towner gives you no chance to cultivate any type of friendship or connection. Every dancer I have done OTC with has seen me in the club a few times, and we have built a rapport. I go in for the kill after that. I have not been able to score a first visit OTC. I was in NYC recently and tried that, but to no avail. I suggest hitting your local clubs. I'll bet your success ratio will go way up!!
• carolynne

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  12 years ago

  going to a guy's hotel room is a big physical risk for a woman, and the ones i know won't do it unless they've gotten to know him, at least a little. if they agree right away they must be desparate for some reason. but yeah, you could ask a lot nicer. how about "i'd love it if u came back to my hotel with me. i can make it worth your while" or "what would i have to do to get you to come back to my hotel with me?"
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  "Being an out of towner gives you no chance to cultivate any type of friendship or connection. " Not sure about that. Sometimes it can be an advantage. She knows there is no chance you will become a regular so has to score the money now. Also there is no chance you will "tell" other on her (constant fear they seem to have). Also she may just like the fact she knows you'll be gone the next day and can forget all about it them, as opposed to the constant managing of a relationship with a needy regular, I never felt my OTC chances were hurt when I was traveling (other than the fact the my own schedule often didn't permit - e.g. Hard to stay out late if you are hitting the road the next morning.) Adding it all up, I think the advantages and disadvantages about balance out.
• BeachDweller

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  12 years ago

  I know the club you are talking about. I even had a dance with Mackenzie who did have direct contact with me a couple of special ways. I also had all the amenities with one other dancer, but both were strictly in the club in the most private bed dance area. I had one other beauty who I sensed a connection. I showed up another night and she started kissing me. We finally did see each other outside the club, but it wasn't for pay or anything else like that. She fell in love with me. I have received a number of ITC extras and offers to see many dancers OTC. I offer one thing - normal conversation and respect. Simple stuff like that has proved to work well. The only other thing I do is be clean. I just act normal, and I make them comfortable.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  "I have received a number of ITC extras and offers to see many dancers OTC." Me too. "I offer one thing - normal conversation and respect" I also offer one thing - money.
• georgmicrodong

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  12 years ago

  @stenton1: "Being an out of towner gives you no chance to cultivate any type of friendship or connection." I don't think so. When I was on the road more, it didn't really make much difference in the long run. Sometimes it took more money, sometimes more time. And Dougster has a point with the point about there being less of certain types of risk with an out-of-towner.
• Alucard

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  12 years ago

  Be more subtle.
• steve_ny

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  12 years ago

  I agree that the, you need to come back to my hotel, might not be the way to go. It is common for a guy during a dance to be like, I want to take you home with me or other stuff but they hear this every 15 minutes. I think if you seriously want OTC, then the conversation is better when you are both talking, not during the actual dance. Once I was talking to a girl in Ft Lauderdale and mentioned I was going skydiving tomorrow. I had a few drinks and asked her to go with us. She said she needed $1200 to take the night off. I wasn't interested even though I know she thru a crazy number out there. But it was obvious she was comfortable with this kind of thing
• farmerart

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  12 years ago

  At first attempt do not lowball the girl with your offer. Do not make oblique references to what you want. Be forthright and exact. I am a dine-and-dash road warrior, usually not to be seen ever again by the girl in whatever club I may be visiting. I have fair success with my approach; perhaps not as great as the success of some of the smoother guys here on tuscl, but plenty good enough for me.
• Dain

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  12 years ago

  Revo, words count for everything! NEVER say "you need"! She doesn't. Say: "Hey, I'm up for a party later! Are you down for one?" Or something clever like that. Exchange cell phone numbers; tell her to call a friend and tell her where she will be; tell her you have your condoms. Make her feel safe; make her feel that she'll have fun.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  Dain: " make her feel that she'll have fun." Yes, because fun is their primary motivation for doing OTC after all. smh.
• gatorfan

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  12 years ago

  You forgot to fuck her again
• Prim0

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  12 years ago

  Best line.....This nasty crack whore looking stripper with a head like a bastard ape LOL!
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  Great advice guys. I understand that I was a bit too blunt with my words and maybe not direct enough at the same time about what I wanted. Beach: This club does not have private areas. Frameart/Dougster: How do you alter your approach when traveling? Carolyne: Thanks for the perspective. Makes sense.
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  Prime0: man she was bad. brought the grading curve way down in the club.
• fastscrs

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  12 years ago

  I've always found the direct approach works well. If I get a good dance and I'm worked up about the girl I just ask, "Do you see guys outside the club and do them?" A surprisingly high percentage say "yes" and either give me their phone number or we set up a time right then and there to meet. However, the stripper I had the longest relationship with initiallly turned me down. I had to persist until, about the fourth or fifth time, she said "You're really serious aren't you? OK" We had great sex over a period of a couple of years. She loved doggie style and would also do lingerie shows and masterbation shows for me. Other girls will let you do just about anything to them in the club but not see you outside. I've asked girls to let me see their pussies and they pull their thongs aside or down and let me finger them until they're dripping wet but despite asking several times won't do OTC. Then, there are the success stories. One stripper I was seeing stopped because she got a boyfriend. I was getting a dance from another girl at the club and was complaining about this girl not wanting to do a BJ or anything else. This dancer already had my cock out of my pants and was working it up and down when she said "I'll do anything and there's a motel two blocks down." I took her there when she got off work...presto, new fuck buddy. Another club, another dancer, straddling my lap..."let me see your pussy"...panties pulled forward, finger goes in. But, this girl is already wet! I commented on it and she said "I'm always wet" I said she must get worked up being at the club all day. "Yeah" she said, "I go home and masterbate." It was easy to get her to a hotel. Rented a room for two hours (Great invention, hourly hotels)and filled her up with cum. My last example concerns a stripper who got me hot and worked up while giving me lap dances in an open, public area with the couches around the walls of the room. No one seemed to care much about privacy as dancers were taking men's hands and placing them directly on their breasts. (This was a California club, just east of L.A. in Upland..bare breasts, no latex)My stripper (tall, tanned, blond about 36DD) was an expert at using her body as a shield to cover what her hands were doing inside my pants. After three of these dances I couldn't stand it any longer and we went to the VIP room, my hands held down in front of me trying to cover my erection, where totally nude dances were done. Before going there she assured me I could get "very comfortable" in the room. OK. I undid my pants and pulled them down. She began sliding up and down my body holding my cock in her hand working her way down to my mid section and then taking my cock in her mouth, licking and sucking and twirling her tongue around it. After a few minutes of this she straightened up, took my cock in her hand again and moved it toward her pussy. I thought she was just going to rub it against her pussy but, no, she inserted it directly inside her and began to ride it. Wow, this was the first time a dancer had ever done this to me but we repeated it several times over the next few months. An even bigger surprise was she let me cum inside her...full service to the maxium! Well, no surprise...she readily agreed to meet me OTC which we did about five times before I moved to another city. The point of all this is just keep trying, keep asking (And,as you see from my experience, you can ask very directly). There's plenty of girls out there who will say yes and, because they're strippers, really know how to move their body for the utmost excitment while you're fucking them. Believe me, it worth it to keep trying. Let us all know how you do.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  Revo, attitude is as important as what words you actually use. If you seem aggressive or overeager you risk putting off girls who might otherwise have considered it. I find that being calm and friendly is a great way to set the table before you pitch OTC. As carolynne rightly pointed out, the girls have to consider their safety and comfort when agreeing to OTC. Also, over time you'll get a better sense as to who to pitch it to and when to do so. Forcing it will just make you look too eager for it. When a conversation gets to the right point, about half of the time the dancer will make the offer. However, if she does not, but I sense that she would be receptive to it, I usually say something like, "I'd really like to talk you out of here tonight if I could", in a calm voice with a light smile and direct eye contact. Anyway, just my two cents and good luck.
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  RIckdugan, is that take or talk? Thanks for the input guys. I am going to try again next week will report back my adventures. Love this hobby. Beats the shit out of golf!
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  I think the big things are a) Don't overthink it - asking a whore if she would like get paid to have sex with you is not a complex art or science. They either do it or they don't. If they do, approach makes little difference (with one qualification see below). Similarly if they don't you are not going to talk them into it with some king of logic or persuade them with your charm. (Unless you are the kind of guy who has enough game to bed strippers regularly, but if you were that guy you would know it won't need to ask here.) b) The only way you can really blow it with one who does is to negotiate as if you are quite willing to settle for something less or generally imply you are a sucker with your money. Many strippers will gladly provide you less drawn out over time to maximize the total amount of money they take from you. Nevertheless, even if you are a sucker though, some would rather just fuck for cash then play the draw out game - probably a matter of it just being less energy for them, and they don't get a charge out of the "play the suckers" game that many strippers live for. c) As Rick says there are some signs you will learn to pick up on and a general "vibe" you feel after time about who will and who won't. Again, though, I don't think this is very important other than as an interesting "knowing without knowing how you know" psychological phenomena. There are also some things which can be articulated easily enough, but I'm keeping those secret. If you "just ask" in plain English any time you meet a girl who you think you'd like to fuck and don't violate "b)" then your success rate will be higher than I'm sure you could possibly guess right now. Even if you violate "b)" you should still get plenty of action, but will end up pay more as you learn. Just remember "never give up". Don't get discouraged by early set backs, just get back in the game, and you'll be "winning" (to the extent that pathetic losers can be said to be "winning") in no time.
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  Secret? Secret? Man you can't do that!
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  @Revo: to answer your other question. I don't alter my approach to OTC at all when I'm travelling, other the the obvious fact that I am going ot have to ask them the first time I meet them if they do OTC or not. Again, my theory is they either do or they don't and there is no "building of trust" or "winning them over" that many others here seem to think there is, so whether you ask them the first time you see them or third it doesn't matter. (Note some guys claimed that in the past claimed that there was an elaborate art/science to this, but it looks like they stopped spotting that belief after enough people came on here and said "just ask" is about all there is to it.)
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  "Again, my theory is they either do or they don't and there is no "building of trust" or "winning them over" that many others here seem to think there is, so whether you ask them the first time you see them or third it doesn't matter." A theory indeed. But then again, you could be right. Maybe they are just whorebots who view guys as nothing more than penises with wallets attached and don't care about there safety or security. Yup, an interesting theory indeed. ;) @Revo: Yes, I meant to say "talk."
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  I think you are confusing "theory" and "hypothesis" Rick. In the colloquial sense they are synonyms, but formally a theory is what was once a hypothesis, that has withstood the test of time, with experimental data to back it up and no experimental data that disproves it. So when you make fun of "theory" I just laugh, because you are using words whose meaning you don't understand. Not the first time you've done it either and won't be the last.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  @Revo: Rick, may have a point about "safety" and security. Maybe a "subtlety" that I thought was too obvious to mention. So when asking for OTC, be careful you don't say things like you have a gun in your car and intend to blow her head off and you should be fine.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  @revo: Below is a link to an article I wrote some time ago on the topic of sourcing OTC when traveling. In my humble opinion it holds as true today as it did when I wrote it a few years ago. [view link]
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  Is that the article where he says be the only one wearing a suit in a dive club and it will so impress them that they want to have (paid) sex with you? Then he admits that that trick doesn't work so well in clubs where others wear suits. It's some funny shit that everyone should read for laughs, but if you are serious about OTC just two words you need to keep in mind - "just ask".
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  @revo: I also think that you will find that some dancers' idea of comfort and safety go a little bit beyond simply verifying that you don't intend to blow their heads off. Clutchiness, desperation, loud and obnoxious behavior, etc., will all work against you. She needs to feel certain that she is going to make it out of your hotel room without being raped (meaning without getting paid), beaten and/or without a stalker who falls in love just because she gave you a little pussy. Calm and cool. Act like you've been there before and never look ruffled. Sometimes these things pan out and other times they don't, but either way it should look like no skin off of your back. In any event, good luck!
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  "Is that the article where he says be the only one wearing a suit in a dive club and it will so impress them that they want to have (paid) sex with you? Then he admits that that trick doesn't work so well in clubs where others wear suits." No, it is the one where I say that wearing a suit will keep a steady flow of girls coming your way. And yes, for quite obvious reasons this does not work as well in clubs with a lot of expensive suits. But your chances on getting reasonably priced OTC are not great in those types of clubs anyway, yet another reason is why I caution readers to target clubs away from downtown business districts in larger cities (NYC, Chicago, DC).
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  One of things that Rick is missing is that most strippers have anti-social traits. One consequence of this is good for us - selling themselves for money, an activity that society shuns, is not a big deal for them. Other consequences, however, are an inability to think ahead beyond the immediate moment, and this includes not as big an appreciation of risks (e.g. meeting a stranger) that normal women would have.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  @rick: Like I say it's a funny article. I always get a kick out of re-reading your old posts before you decided recently you had to moderate your positions to maintain credibility here. Other gems from your article "lie about your job". Look as long they think you will pay they don't care. Maybe you are a checkout boy at safeway but such a PL that you are willing to drop your whole pay check on her. She'll know whether you are for real or not. "The girl will not want to travel 20 miles out of her way in the dead of night" Met so many girls at Honey's who were willing to do just that. This is just plain wrong. " NEVER sit at a stage " Did that just last week, and scored an OTC nevertheless. You really think she is going to think to herself "yeah, his offer of OTC seems legit and I need the money, but dammit, his sitting next to the stage is giving me the creeps..." Whatever, dude. As for the whole thing about dressing, most guys on here will tell you just do the experiment and see for yourself - it makes no difference. This is like the whole job thing, again poor, average, rich PLs may all be willing to pay for OTC, she just wants to know if you are real, and will get a sense of that from other signs besides how you dress. Anyway, thanks again for posing that link to that massively amusing article. Cracks me up everytime!
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  "Did that just last week, and scored an OTC nevertheless." No you didn't - LMAO. As far as all of that other stuff, if you want to lavish your uninformed opinions, premised upon falsified experiences, upon newbies who don't know any better, then I can't stop you. In any event, they'll learn soon enough that Fraudster's little fantasy world, where strippers are whore-bots who treat everyone the same regardless of how they look or act, is not what they are experiencing. ;)
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  Rick: "No you didn't - LMAO." Oh my! "You lie!" Rick: "if you want to lavish your uninformed opinions, premised upon falsified experiences" Oh my! Conspiracy theories to boot!
• fastscrs

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  12 years ago

  The direct approach I recommended in my earlier post works on dates too. Had a blind date last night with a girl who turned out to be a stunner. After dinner, back at my apartment I said "show me your panties" and she lifted her dress right up, then turned around to show me that printed across the back of her panties was "sexy bitch". The direct approach works well!
• rogertex

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  12 years ago

  revo - enough good advice already ! but let me pile on .... Your adventures *will* get better. Everyone's fumbled through this, before makin it work for them. As advised by the TUSCL experts, Direct approach in a courteous manner, is the BEST. However, I like the girl friend experience (GFE) - so have worked this out: If a dancer is rocking my world with her dances (happens 1 in 10 girls) - I start getting OTC urges. After the dances, I give the dancer a final embrace - warm, tight - and say this cheerfully "I felt like I died and was in heaven. I need to kidnap you and send a note to you mom, sisters, family - Lola is cozy & secure and busy shopping. She will be returned to you Monday with a smile. <pause> After breakfast." Three types of responses: 1. The dancer just gets tickled silly and giggles. I don't pursue further. [Most do this] 2. Same as above - but says "Oh - I'd love that with you". From here it is easy. (see below) 3. The dancer says "I offer take-out" (or OTC or dating or escorting)". I don't pursue further. Mind you, I have known these dancers from before and a mutual friendship is already there (at dancer-customer level). Again - because I like GFE. I don't have sex for money in USA because it is illegal. However, once I am with the girl I really like - I do tell my girl about compensating for her time and goin shopping. And for her to act like my girlfriend for the weekend. Also tell her - not looking for a long term relationship. The 20 something girls consider the above requirements - EASY and a godsend. As intertwined and complex this may sound - especially for TUSCL masters - a weekend GFE is 1000 times better than an actual girl friend. And - surprise surprise - easier on the wallet.
• georgmicrodong

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  12 years ago

  @"As intertwined and complex this may sound - especially for TUSCL masters - a weekend GFE is 1000 times better than an actual girl friend. And - surprise surprise - easier on the wallet." The thing is, most of the "TUSCL masters" you mention know their limitations. An ugly, fat, old guy isn't someone with whom most 20 something girls want to spend an entire weekend naked and fucking without an explicit promise of cold, hard cash. If your approach is working for you, great. However, for somebody like me, there ain't a chance in hell something like that would work anymore. I'm OK with that, though. :)
• Revo

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  12 years ago

  Great advice. So much information. Now I just have to apply some of this. Traveling to two cities this week. I will let you know how it goes. Rogertex: did you ever meet a dancer in Austin's perfect 10 named Dee?
• rogertex

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  12 years ago

  Revo - I don't recall Dee. I look for Trinity and Robin and would like Ariel's company because I've heard so much about her - through reviews (& also in PMs).
• rogertex

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  12 years ago

  hey GMD, I remember your 3 part series at a massage parlor - very juicy !!! (I think you wrote earlier this year)
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  One thing I've been wondering about is the success rate people are having with OTC. In Rick's article he says his success rate is around 35%. This seems a bit low (but not by much) compared to when I asked other about their success rates. I was wondering why his success rate might be lower than others, (especially give all the effort he has apparently put into trying to formulate all this - one think that would make his success rate higher). Reasons I can think of - a) the NE where Rick seems to do the bulk of his mongering is just a harder area geographically to score OTC compared to the rest of the country b) he posted his success rate in 2009 and things have become even easier since then c) his "method" (as he calls it or "the system" as I call it) is actually counter productive Thoughts?
• steve229

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  12 years ago

  "I need to kidnap you and send a note to you mom, sisters, family" I think you left out a response: 4. "SECURITY!" lol
• rogertex

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  12 years ago

  hey - revo - I recall Dee. If she's the curvaceous dark, dusky latina - about 5'9" (with heels). I got dances when I first started visiting strip clubs (couple years ago). Very good dances. Unrushed. 2 way contact. Didn't keep in touch with her though. (texas is loaded with beautiful women) After the dances - she sat with me and asked me - "how were the dances and how she could make them more memorable" That was a first - and still is the only experience for me where a dancer took a "customer satisfaction survey"! Dee did it with a sincere, straight face. I was too new then - and mumbled some good stuff. If I see her now - and she's still taking "user feedback" - I'll have something naughty and witty - which will wanna make her beat me up. P10 is a great place in Austin.
• rogertex

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  12 years ago

  Steve - LOL. Security here in Austin texas will go - "Hey, Hey - kidnap me too ! I can carry the shopping bags"
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  I've never done it, so I'm not nearly as expert in these matters as others. But I do know a tiny bit about women. 1. She's a girl, and she's taking a huge safety risk going somewhere with a guy she doesn't know. You aren't taking that risk. Many/most women think that the world is filled with perverts who are waiting to get them alone in a dark alley and kill them. They're taught that since childhood when teachers and parents pound into their heads not to walk alone or talk to strangers. So don't be surprised if any girl in her right mind would think twice. 2. Convincing a girl to have sex with you is probably not the best idea, in any situation. It might work okay, but if she really doesn't want to then it's far more likely she'll just go thru the motions, or be nervous, or tentative, or whatever. 3. Most women believe that sex = love, and anyone who does otherwise is a slut and a whore, neither of which are good. 4. It's illegal. It's not easy for some people to decide to do something that is illegal and could cost them their jobs and a bunch of other stuff. Keep in mind that getting arrested for prostitution could result in your picture being posted where family members, and your daughter's friends and school teachers could see it. Bad scene, man. 5. There are a hundred thousand other reasons why a girl would turn you down. Maybe you remind her of her father, or her brother, or she's turned off by older guys, or is on the rag, or she just had a bad experience with some guy OTC, or a million other things. Seems to me that if you ask and she says no, then just move on to another girl or another club. If she hasn't already decided, before you even come along, that she wants to do OTC stuff, then she probably isn't someone you want to deal with.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  Regarding safety I think another thing being overlooked is desensitization. If she's done it before chances are she's done it many times before. That's going to lead to her to have less concern about safety compared to a non-stripper who only has sex with guys she dates in a normal manner (even if it is always before the third date!) So I don't think making the comparison with normal women is right. If she hasn't done it, OTOH, despite what a bunch of studs (who, curiously still have to pay) some guys on TUSCL seem to think they are, what are the chances you will be the first one to talk her into? Go ahead and blather all you want about what a nice guy/true respecter of whores you are, but if it whas possible to wager against you, I'm gladly give out 9:1 (even more) that you are not going to be the first one to talk her into it.
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  Yeah, maybe desensitization would make a difference, but keep in mind that you may never know what a particular woman has for her internal warning signs when it comes to guys. Most women trust their intuition, and it might come down to something as small as "Ooo, I didn't like his beady eyes", or "he didn't have a trusting smile". But I agree, you want someone who has done this before, preferably many times, and is reasonably comfortable having sex with a strange man in a strange hotel room. And as far as I can tell, that means that she's had to convince herself to suppress a whole lot of things in the back of her head that tell her "this is just wrong". Though I find it hard to believe that, once she's waded thru all of those hugely important danger signals and concerns, she gives a damn whether you're wearing a suit or not. But hey, what do I know.
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  And BTW, it may be an interesting exercise to compare a guy's concerns vs. a girl's: As I mentioned, the girl has a list of hundreds or thousands of concerns. On the other hand, what are a guy's concerns? Well, there are only a couple: Is she hot, can I afford it, and, oh, BTW, it's illegal. And the moment you ask her the question, all but one of the questions are resolved. You've already accepted that it's illegal and you're willing to take the risk, and you've already decided she's hot enough. Once she agrees on a price, you're golden. But for her most of her concerns are just starting. If it was me I'd be shocked if a girl said yes, and far less surprised if she said no.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  I think I may just be blessed with putting out a safe or trustable vibe, because I can only remember one girl expressing the slightest concern. She want to meet in her suv (srsly!) And I said that sounded uncomfortable, his about my place instead. She asked if it was safe, and u said I promised not to rape or kill her. She just laughed and it on. Drove well over 20 miles to see me and I stuck to my promise not to rape or kill her.
• Estafador

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  12 years ago

  ir we could do the cheapest most legal non incriminating thing here, just flirt for a one night stand. You've paid her plenty already on dances and drinks and besides you seem to like to flirt a lot, getting it for free would just match. Other wise, forget the smooth talking and straight up ask her politely. It isn't woth the effort to persuade the girl to do otc for the first tim unless its a ons. Too many women to waste time on one girl. Personally, your better off going to a regular club